Selling my Neo FreeRunner
Hi folks! I'm selling my Neo FreeRunner, I have a new gadget and I'm not using it anymore. I'm selling it through eBay. Here is the auction: http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190516789067 It's the A6+buzzfix and it has a invisile shield screen protector and an extra battery. Original package, charger, sleeve and all the equipment. Best regards. http://www.mensab.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
Thanks a lot for the reply. How can I use the dbus and get the values from the fone. For example. I want to write a python code that will give the the IMEI number and manufacturer details of my fone. how can i do that. I understand that once i have any of the FSO or SHR etc I can do that. Cant i just do it now on my phone without using them. Isnt there any feature in 2008.12 that will let me query the dbus directly. Is the only option to install. I am sorry if I am asking so many questions but i really need to know as I am very interested in working on this phone. --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Al Johnson wrote: > From: Al Johnson > Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner > To: community@lists.openmoko.org > Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 11:31 AM > > -Inline Attachment Follows- > > 2008.12 uses elements of QtExtended > to provide its phone functionality. You > can't simply install the freesmartphone.org framework on > 2008.12 as the two > will compete over resources such as the GSM interface, > probably breaking both > in the process. > > If you want to use the freesmartphone.org framework you > will need to use a > distro that supports it. That could be FSO, SHR, Debian, or > possibly Gentoo. > These can be installed to internal NAND, or to a partition > on the SD card. You > could even have a dual boot or multiboot setup - I have > Android in NAND, and > FSO milestone 4.1, SHR Unstable and FSO unstable on > different SD partitions. > > These links should help you install your preferred distro: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD > > For FSO you should probably start with the Milestone 5.1 > release: > http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-stable/milestone5.1/om-gta02/ > > SHR has install instructions here: > http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Install > > Debian has a chunk of documentation here: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian > > On Friday 06 March 2009, sandilya b wrote: > > I am sorry. I think I did not understand what you > said. Ok let me explain > > what I am doing. I am SSH'ing into my phone from my > laptop and trying to > > run some python codes which will let me access the > dbus for some phone > > specific features like IMEI number etc. However to get > these values I was > > asked to use the cli-framework as it contains > functions through which i can > > easily perform the activity. Now can I install all the > features provided > > when I have only few present on my phone. > > > > -Sandy > > > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, David Reyes Samblas Martinez > > wrote: > > > From: David Reyes Samblas Martinez > > > Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my > Neo FreeRunner > > > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > > > Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 9:18 AM > > > for use cli-framework you need the > > > framework :), > > > Actual Distros who have it , FSO, SHR, Debian and > his > > > derivates, ¿Gentoo? > > > > > > 2009/3/6 sandilya b : > > > > I am having OM 2008.12 but it has only a few > features > > > > > > when i checked the /usr/share/dbus-1/ folder. > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Timo Juhani Lindfors > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> From: Timo Juhani Lindfors > > > >> Subject: Re: How to install > cli-framework on my > > > > > > Neo FreeRunner > > > > > > >> To: "List for Openmoko community > discussion" > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:27 AM > > > >> sandilya b > > > >> > > > >> writes: > > > >> > I just got an openmoko > freerunner phone > > > >> > > > >> and want to install > > > >> > > > >> > cli-framework on it to use the > various > > > >> > > > >> features of the d-bus > > > >> > > > >> > system. Can someone help me > with it? > > > >> > > > >> Which distro are you running? I think > the phone is > > > > > > shipped > > > > > > >> with some > > > >> om2007.X that does not offer > org.freesmartphone > > > > > > api. > > > > > > >> > ___ > > > >> Openmoko community mailing list > > &g
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
2008.12 uses elements of QtExtended to provide its phone functionality. You can't simply install the freesmartphone.org framework on 2008.12 as the two will compete over resources such as the GSM interface, probably breaking both in the process. If you want to use the freesmartphone.org framework you will need to use a distro that supports it. That could be FSO, SHR, Debian, or possibly Gentoo. These can be installed to internal NAND, or to a partition on the SD card. You could even have a dual boot or multiboot setup - I have Android in NAND, and FSO milestone 4.1, SHR Unstable and FSO unstable on different SD partitions. These links should help you install your preferred distro: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD For FSO you should probably start with the Milestone 5.1 release: http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-stable/milestone5.1/om-gta02/ SHR has install instructions here: http://www.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Install Debian has a chunk of documentation here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debian On Friday 06 March 2009, sandilya b wrote: > I am sorry. I think I did not understand what you said. Ok let me explain > what I am doing. I am SSH'ing into my phone from my laptop and trying to > run some python codes which will let me access the dbus for some phone > specific features like IMEI number etc. However to get these values I was > asked to use the cli-framework as it contains functions through which i can > easily perform the activity. Now can I install all the features provided > when I have only few present on my phone. > > -Sandy > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: > > From: David Reyes Samblas Martinez > > Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner > > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 9:18 AM > > for use cli-framework you need the > > framework :), > > Actual Distros who have it , FSO, SHR, Debian and his > > derivates, ¿Gentoo? > > > > 2009/3/6 sandilya b : > > > I am having OM 2008.12 but it has only a few features > > > > when i checked the /usr/share/dbus-1/ folder. > > > > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Timo Juhani Lindfors > > > > wrote: > > >> From: Timo Juhani Lindfors > > >> Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my > > > > Neo FreeRunner > > > > >> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > > > > > > > >> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:27 AM > > >> sandilya b > > >> > > >> writes: > > >> > I just got an openmoko freerunner phone > > >> > > >> and want to install > > >> > > >> > cli-framework on it to use the various > > >> > > >> features of the d-bus > > >> > > >> > system. Can someone help me with it? > > >> > > >> Which distro are you running? I think the phone is > > > > shipped > > > > >> with some > > >> om2007.X that does not offer org.freesmartphone > > > > api. > > > > >> ___ > > >> Openmoko community mailing list > > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > ___ > > > Openmoko community mailing list > > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > -- > > David Reyes Samblas Martinez > > http://www.tuxbrain.com > > Open ultraportable & embedded solutions > > Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino > > Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
I am sorry. I think I did not understand what you said. Ok let me explain what I am doing. I am SSH'ing into my phone from my laptop and trying to run some python codes which will let me access the dbus for some phone specific features like IMEI number etc. However to get these values I was asked to use the cli-framework as it contains functions through which i can easily perform the activity. Now can I install all the features provided when I have only few present on my phone. -Sandy --- On Fri, 3/6/09, David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote: > From: David Reyes Samblas Martinez > Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 9:18 AM > for use cli-framework you need the > framework :), > Actual Distros who have it , FSO, SHR, Debian and his > derivates, ¿Gentoo? > > 2009/3/6 sandilya b : > > > > I am having OM 2008.12 but it has only a few features > when i checked the /usr/share/dbus-1/ folder. > > > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Timo Juhani Lindfors > wrote: > > > >> From: Timo Juhani Lindfors > >> Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my > Neo FreeRunner > >> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > > >> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:27 AM > >> sandilya b > >> writes: > >> > I just got an openmoko freerunner phone > >> and want to install > >> > cli-framework on it to use the various > >> features of the d-bus > >> > system. Can someone help me with it? > >> > >> Which distro are you running? I think the phone is > shipped > >> with some > >> om2007.X that does not offer org.freesmartphone > api. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Openmoko community mailing list > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > >> > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Openmoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > -- > David Reyes Samblas Martinez > http://www.tuxbrain.com > Open ultraportable & embedded solutions > Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino > Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
for use cli-framework you need the framework :), Actual Distros who have it , FSO, SHR, Debian and his derivates, ¿Gentoo? 2009/3/6 sandilya b : > > I am having OM 2008.12 but it has only a few features when i checked the > /usr/share/dbus-1/ folder. > > --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: > >> From: Timo Juhani Lindfors >> Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner >> To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" >> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:27 AM >> sandilya b >> writes: >> > I just got an openmoko freerunner phone >> and want to install >> > cli-framework on it to use the various >> features of the d-bus >> > system. Can someone help me with it? >> >> Which distro are you running? I think the phone is shipped >> with some >> om2007.X that does not offer org.freesmartphone api. >> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- David Reyes Samblas Martinez http://www.tuxbrain.com Open ultraportable & embedded solutions Openmoko, Openpandora, GP2X the Wiz, Letux 400, Arduino Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
I am having OM 2008.12 but it has only a few features when i checked the /usr/share/dbus-1/ folder. --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote: > From: Timo Juhani Lindfors > Subject: Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner > To: "List for Openmoko community discussion" > Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 1:27 AM > sandilya b > writes: > > I just got an openmoko freerunner phone > and want to install > > cli-framework on it to use the various > features of the d-bus > > system. Can someone help me with it? > > Which distro are you running? I think the phone is shipped > with some > om2007.X that does not offer org.freesmartphone api. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
sandilya b writes: >I just got an openmoko freerunner phone and want to install >cli-framework on it to use the various features of the d-bus >system. Can someone help me with it? Which distro are you running? I think the phone is shipped with some om2007.X that does not offer org.freesmartphone api. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
How to install cli-framework on my Neo FreeRunner
Hi all, I just got an openmoko freerunner phone and want to install cli-framework on it to use the various features of the d-bus system. Can someone help me with it? -Sandy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> -Message d'origine- > > Very interesting. Openstreetmap already has a webserver that > looks up locations by URL, such as: > > http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=63.41283&lon=10.4888&zoom=15&lay > ers=B000FTF > > Would such an URL work on a MMS-capable phone? This URL is > javascript, but a few simple calculations can yield a link > directly to a tile png file instead. > > Helge Hafting The URL won't work as an sms, because it has to be wap, not http, and you can only query your provider mms server, not just any URL. But the same principle could be applied as with the script which sends back the position of your FR upon receiving a given SMS. You'll 'only' have to browse the url and extract the image part. It would be faster to implement than a 'real' mms browser i guess.. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
KaZeR wrote: > > >> -Message d'origine- >> >> I still dream of sending "sentry:map" and get a MMS with a >> map tile back, with the location marked. Don't know if the >> freerunner can send MMS, mine certainly doesn't receive MMS. >> (instead, the telco sent an URL for downloading the test image.) >> > I'm definitely not an expert, but receiving mms is basically receiving a sms > with an url (e.g. the one from your telco), and browsing that url using wap, > without user interaction.. Same thing for posting. So, it's "only" a > software issue... Very interesting. Openstreetmap already has a webserver that looks up locations by URL, such as: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=63.41283&lon=10.4888&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF Would such an URL work on a MMS-capable phone? This URL is javascript, but a few simple calculations can yield a link directly to a tile png file instead. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> -Message d'origine- > > I still dream of sending "sentry:map" and get a MMS with a > map tile back, with the location marked. Don't know if the > freerunner can send MMS, mine certainly doesn't receive MMS. > (instead, the telco sent an URL for downloading the test image.) > I'm definitely not an expert, but receiving mms is basically receiving a sms with an url (e.g. the one from your telco), and browsing that url using wap, without user interaction.. Same thing for posting. So, it's "only" a software issue... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Angus Ainslie wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Helge Hafting > wrote: > > Later I was on a car trip, not driving. So I watched tangogps for a > > while. Then I got the idea to test again, knowing that the gps was > > working. So I sent the message again - from the phone to itself. And > > again nothing happened. The keyed message eventually showed up in the > > sms inbox, with the first letter removed. Tangogps showed movement all > > the time. I tried twice, but I never got a reply with any coordinates. > > > > If the first letter is missing then it won't work as the match has to > be complete. This seems to be some kind of network ( or possibly > Freerunner specific issue ) as I've had the missing character reported > before. I have always tested by sending from a different phone. I'll > test again using the freerunner to track itself. > I have now tested more. The freerunner running SHR (dec.16) removes the last letter (not the first), but this can be worked around by sending "sentry:locationn". It works flawlessly, I do get a location back now. SHR/FSO will probably fix that letter removal problem in a future release. I still dream of sending "sentry:map" and get a MMS with a map tile back, with the location marked. Don't know if the freerunner can send MMS, mine certainly doesn't receive MMS. (instead, the telco sent an URL for downloading the test image.) Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Angus Ainslie wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Helge Hafting wrote: >> Later I was on a car trip, not driving. So I watched tangogps for a >> while. Then I got the idea to test again, knowing that the gps was >> working. So I sent the message again - from the phone to itself. And >> again nothing happened. The keyed message eventually showed up in the >> sms inbox, with the first letter removed. Tangogps showed movement all >> the time. I tried twice, but I never got a reply with any coordinates. >> > > If the first letter is missing then it won't work as the match has to > be complete. This seems to be some kind of network ( or possibly > Freerunner specific issue ) as I've had the missing character reported > before. I have always tested by sending from a different phone. I'll > test again using the freerunner to track itself. Only these messages had the first letter removed, not other test messages. And the usual message receive screen didn't come up. The messages just appeared in the inbox. So I guessed the keyed messages had been processed differently somehow. I will try to test more. Maybe the inbox was too full? Other messages gets delayed in such cases, could that happen to keyed messages as well? An unrelated idea: When tangogps is installed, how about locating a useful map tile for the position? Add a location pointer, and send it as a MMS image? Most phones can display an image, and you won't need to look up the coordinates manually anywhere. The most useful tile would be one that doesn't have the position too close to the edge, and maximally zoomed in. (Depends on what tiles there are.) Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
arne anka wrote: > i still think, all these ideas to make the thief repent ... uh ... return > the phone or track it, are rather pipe dreams -- but anyway ... It isn't always thievery. What do you do if you find a phone? It is easier to return if it states who owns it as soon as you turn it on. None of that cumbersome "call every contact to see if they know the owner". Especially on such a "unfamiliar" phone. Also, location reported through gps is useful if you simply forgot it and have no idea where, after a busy day. Friends house? Some restaurant? Petrol station? Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
2009/1/28 arne anka : > i still think, all these ideas to make the thief repent ... uh ... return > the phone or track it, are rather pipe dreams -- but anyway ... Locked WinMo devices optionally display a message (e.g. for contact/reward details), in addition to the keypad for unlocking the phone, when switched on or woken up. This would allow return of the phone whether it was stolen or simply lost. Bricking the phone won't get it back, but having the above, plus having the phone report its location regularly, would seem to maximise chances of recovery. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
i still think, all these ideas to make the thief repent ... uh ... return the phone or track it, are rather pipe dreams -- but anyway ... be it for this purpose or another: when finally the migration to qi is done and over, the flash partition containing the kernel read by u-boot should be available for things and data not easily removed. maybe some ideas spring to mind how to use it (with a nag screen/noise, emergency delete of data, whatever)? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
bburde...@comcast.net wrote: > If you don't want to risk being sued for a booby trapped phone, how Hard to prove whose phone it was, after it exploded. And then they have to prove that it was you who set the trap. Still, not recommended. > about at least a way to render the it useless to thieves? > > For instance, you could make it unbootable from a zero power situation, > and then combine that with a rapid power discharge. If the thief leaves > it uncharged for even a day, its bricked! At least the thief can't use it that way, but he'll just throw it away. If you want it back, consider software that does this: 1. Sends a sms with gps location now and then. But not so often as to use up the battery quickly. 2. Replace the usual ringtone with "Help, this phone is stolen!" 3. Replace the window manager with a single window that reads: - This phone belong to: name address Please return it for a $nn refund. - There should be no user interface here, no buttons to press and no way out. (If you get it back - reflash or log in with ssh to get it out of "stolen mode". You should have a nice long root password.) Some thieves might go for the refund, when they find that the phone cannot be used at all. Others might throw it away. Someone else might find it and go for the refund, or you might be able to find it at the reported gps location. Still, if you want to brick the phone badly - overwrite the gsm modem firmware. No more calls! Then overwrite both nand flash and nor flash - nor more boot. Or maybe the boot message could show the "stolen" message above, and shut down again after a minute to conserve battery. After this, a debug board will be necessary. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
>> Sorry for you, hope you will be over it soon and up and running with a >> new one. >> >> For any ideas regarding this issue, please document them in the Wiki: >> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Anti-Theft_Mode > > I think that someone who has stolen a FR will not be willing to use it as > a > phone and perhaps not even has the knowledge to make something useful > with it. Therefor I would insert a small offer in the case of the FR > saying "Call me at phone X and I will pay you Y on device return." > I do this as well with my FreeBSD based laptops. > > matthias I'd prefer to lose my FR rather than paying my robbers for something that is mine, and thus giving them an incentive to keep robbing. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
but if the phone automatically send a notification if there is a different sim insterted? that notification can contain the new cell phone number and as many of his contacts as you choose On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:53 PM, wrote: >>> >>> And when you think you've tracked down the thief and are close to him, >>> send >>> an sms to make it play some music really really loud, and go bang the >>> thief >>> on the head :) >> >> Sounds fun. I send the SMS, and suddenly a piercing siren goes off from >> the >> guy 10 feet away, so I tackle him and take back my phone. :D I like how >> you >> think. > > I don't like spoiling your fun, but the first thing the thief will do is > turning off the device (if he can!). Otherwise, simply calling your phone > would do the same effect. > > Next, he will change the SIM, of course. If he finds the phone useful in > any way. > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
>> >> And when you think you've tracked down the thief and are close to him, >> send >> an sms to make it play some music really really loud, and go bang the >> thief >> on the head :) > > Sounds fun. I send the SMS, and suddenly a piercing siren goes off from > the > guy 10 feet away, so I tackle him and take back my phone. :D I like how > you > think. I don't like spoiling your fun, but the first thing the thief will do is turning off the device (if he can!). Otherwise, simply calling your phone would do the same effect. Next, he will change the SIM, of course. If he finds the phone useful in any way. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
i'm assuming we don't want to brick it, because the thief is not very likely to return the phone if it doesn't work, nor can we track it if it isn't charged. He'(ll just dump the phone. sending gps location (if available), cell tower information and SIM card info (contacts, own number...) in the background to a predefined cellphone number/upload it to a server or e-mail it (when internet is available) seems to me the smarter choice. y On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:14 PM, wrote: > If you don't want to risk being sued for a booby trapped phone, how > about at least a way to render the it useless to thieves? > > For instance, you could make it unbootable from a zero power situation, > and then combine that with a rapid power discharge. If the thief leaves > it uncharged for even a day, its bricked! > > > Jeff Sadowski wrote: >> Oooh :-) Idea: Make it shock the user if its not the right user. I >> smell smoke I think it is coming from over there. Hey look there is my >> phone. next to a flaming POS. >> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Lothar Behrens >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> sorry for you all that lost your phone, stolen or lost anyhow by being >>> careless. I also had lost a phone, but not my FR :-) >>> I read the thread, and think about my contract. I have no gprs as of my old >>> phone didn't let me opening >>> web or wap pages. >>> I have some questions and ideas that are in my brain :-) >>> Is there any way to use analog modem connections ? >>> I don't know how much CPU power is needed but when possible a phone could >>> send more data to a dedicated >>> number we could provide for that. >>> If a real modem connection couldn't be used, what about creating a tone >>> modulation for the data to be send >>> as a 'spoken' message to be send back to a number as a voice recorder. >>> The voice recorder then (a Linux PC :-) could decode the data and store the >>> data. >>> All the data could be collected on a web service to probably get the bad >>> guys behind to give that information to >>> the police. >>> The web service also could provide information about stolen devices, thus >>> when a phone gets any wlan connection, >>> it could check for stolen state. This is not that spoof able I think, >>> because the web sevice may be as usual password protected. >>> But the server could provide sms, mms or phone gateways for fallback >>> options. More gateways could be provided by us. >>> The new gateway information could be uploaded by interacting with the user >>> (software updates :-) >>> If a phone didn't have gprs, sms, mms, or wlan, sending prepared 'data >>> voices' would be an option. It didn't need to send much at first to get >>> an answer about the stolen state in that way. I think the recorded data >>> could be decoded in both directions, you don't need >>> much cpu power, because it will be unidirectional, or let the 'protocol' >>> enough time between packed sent and anser packets >>> for decoding. >>> Doing an active voice call may save us the cost of callbacks or sending back >>> sms. With a proper longtime protocol with long pauses or a >>> better solution a lot could be done. >>> Usually you could activate this when the sim card get's changed without any >>> notice to the user. He should still use the phone a while >>> to collect information. We then could start a preinstalled application to >>> authenticate the sim card change. If not options are many. >>> The PIN entry of the normal card could be replaced by the PIN you >>> provide. The user then wouldn't realize it, but claims to enter >>> the correct, we simply accept, but start the timer for the above actions. >>> Or we leave the user in claim that the documentation of it's sim card >>> provider doesn't seem to be correct and he/she must issue >>> a call with the service provider. >>> At that point, the service provider couldn't help for that special phone. >>> The new 'user' HAS to contact the manufacturer and so on >>> you probably get your phone back, because the manufacturer should request >>> for sending back the phone. >>> Getting the state of stolen, the phone could anyway send a message to a >>> police station near the user with spd-say, after >>> the 'anti-theft' server has located the next police station's telephone >>> number with any of the above options sent back to the >>> phone. (Maybe with manual data entry of the phone numbers by us users with >>> POI collection, hehe tangoGPS :-) >>> That way the phone could help actively. Not only 'data voices' could be >>> sent. >>> Also the collected wlan, phone towers, GPS, voice, phone numbers and what >>> else could help to locate the guys behind, >>> as the phones will walk up to the key guys before it would reselled. (Where >>> they all are located would be very nice POI data) >>> With that data, we could help the police. >>> A note about the attack to people currently having your phone: They may not >>> know, that they have a stolen phone, thus >>> you get to be a 'criminal' and bewar
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
bburde...@comcast.net wrote: > If you don't want to risk being sued for a booby trapped phone, how > about at least a way to render the it useless to thieves? I think that the majority of thieves is not technically inclined, thus our FR is _already_ rather useless for him/her.. > For instance, you could make it unbootable from a zero power situation, > and then combine that with a rapid power discharge. If the thief leaves > it uncharged for even a day, its bricked! LOL :) yeah.. let's implement that.. oh wait.. this feature is already implemented.. no battery voltage -> "bricked" (unless one knows what to do) Cheers, -- Thomas -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ The use of anthropomorphic terminology when dealing with computing systems is a symptom of professional immaturity. - Edsgar W. Dijkstra -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
If you don't want to risk being sued for a booby trapped phone, how about at least a way to render the it useless to thieves? For instance, you could make it unbootable from a zero power situation, and then combine that with a rapid power discharge. If the thief leaves it uncharged for even a day, its bricked! Jeff Sadowski wrote: > Oooh :-) Idea: Make it shock the user if its not the right user. I > smell smoke I think it is coming from over there. Hey look there is my > phone. next to a flaming POS. > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Lothar Behrens > wrote: >> Hi, >> sorry for you all that lost your phone, stolen or lost anyhow by being >> careless. I also had lost a phone, but not my FR :-) >> I read the thread, and think about my contract. I have no gprs as of my old >> phone didn't let me opening >> web or wap pages. >> I have some questions and ideas that are in my brain :-) >> Is there any way to use analog modem connections ? >> I don't know how much CPU power is needed but when possible a phone could >> send more data to a dedicated >> number we could provide for that. >> If a real modem connection couldn't be used, what about creating a tone >> modulation for the data to be send >> as a 'spoken' message to be send back to a number as a voice recorder. >> The voice recorder then (a Linux PC :-) could decode the data and store the >> data. >> All the data could be collected on a web service to probably get the bad >> guys behind to give that information to >> the police. >> The web service also could provide information about stolen devices, thus >> when a phone gets any wlan connection, >> it could check for stolen state. This is not that spoof able I think, >> because the web sevice may be as usual password protected. >> But the server could provide sms, mms or phone gateways for fallback >> options. More gateways could be provided by us. >> The new gateway information could be uploaded by interacting with the user >> (software updates :-) >> If a phone didn't have gprs, sms, mms, or wlan, sending prepared 'data >> voices' would be an option. It didn't need to send much at first to get >> an answer about the stolen state in that way. I think the recorded data >> could be decoded in both directions, you don't need >> much cpu power, because it will be unidirectional, or let the 'protocol' >> enough time between packed sent and anser packets >> for decoding. >> Doing an active voice call may save us the cost of callbacks or sending back >> sms. With a proper longtime protocol with long pauses or a >> better solution a lot could be done. >> Usually you could activate this when the sim card get's changed without any >> notice to the user. He should still use the phone a while >> to collect information. We then could start a preinstalled application to >> authenticate the sim card change. If not options are many. >> The PIN entry of the normal card could be replaced by the PIN you >> provide. The user then wouldn't realize it, but claims to enter >> the correct, we simply accept, but start the timer for the above actions. >> Or we leave the user in claim that the documentation of it's sim card >> provider doesn't seem to be correct and he/she must issue >> a call with the service provider. >> At that point, the service provider couldn't help for that special phone. >> The new 'user' HAS to contact the manufacturer and so on >> you probably get your phone back, because the manufacturer should request >> for sending back the phone. >> Getting the state of stolen, the phone could anyway send a message to a >> police station near the user with spd-say, after >> the 'anti-theft' server has located the next police station's telephone >> number with any of the above options sent back to the >> phone. (Maybe with manual data entry of the phone numbers by us users with >> POI collection, hehe tangoGPS :-) >> That way the phone could help actively. Not only 'data voices' could be >> sent. >> Also the collected wlan, phone towers, GPS, voice, phone numbers and what >> else could help to locate the guys behind, >> as the phones will walk up to the key guys before it would reselled. (Where >> they all are located would be very nice POI data) >> With that data, we could help the police. >> A note about the attack to people currently having your phone: They may not >> know, that they have a stolen phone, thus >> you get to be a 'criminal' and beware, you may also get reatacked by the >> person :-) >> Giving the police the collected data, would propably help much more. >> What about all my stupid brain stuff ? >> Discuss about the possibilities - even stupid ideas as the old 'acustic >> coupler'. You don't really need all the modern GPRS stuff :-) >> If that is possible also the cost of operation is not very high I think - >> even you change your card (you know to start a separate unlocker) >> Lothar >> >> -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de >> Lothar Behrens >> Heinrich-
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Helge Hafting wrote: > Later I was on a car trip, not driving. So I watched tangogps for a > while. Then I got the idea to test again, knowing that the gps was > working. So I sent the message again - from the phone to itself. And > again nothing happened. The keyed message eventually showed up in the > sms inbox, with the first letter removed. Tangogps showed movement all > the time. I tried twice, but I never got a reply with any coordinates. > If the first letter is missing then it won't work as the match has to be complete. This seems to be some kind of network ( or possibly Freerunner specific issue ) as I've had the missing character reported before. I have always tested by sending from a different phone. I'll test again using the freerunner to track itself. >> What distro did you try it on ? >> > SHR of dec.16, which I still use. A good distro in that calls, sms, > music, and gps all works - although it could use some polishing. > >> Did you run it from the command line and check what status messages it >> was sending ? >> > I didn't think of that, it is worth a try. > > >> It works but can take a very very long time to get a fix and return >> the SMS you are waiting for. >> > I know - so therefore I tested it when I already had a good fix. gpsd is > supposed to be able to serve several clients at the same time. > SHR uses fso-gpsd and the will handle multiple clients. Angus -- Angus Ainslie http://www.handheldshell.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Angus Ainslie wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Helge Hafting wrote: >> There is a program around that is supposed to look for a special keyword >> in a sms, and send a gps reading back. It didn't work when I tried it, >> but this appraoch can be developed into something more robust. Another >> other security idea: Send an SMS to put the phone in "stolen" modus. (Do >> that quickly, before they change the sim card.) >> > > Are you talking about sms-sentry ? > > Which part didn't work ? I sent the message, from the phone to itself. This was right after installing it. Of course, there was no gps fix inside the building, I didn't expect that to work well. Later I was on a car trip, not driving. So I watched tangogps for a while. Then I got the idea to test again, knowing that the gps was working. So I sent the message again - from the phone to itself. And again nothing happened. The keyed message eventually showed up in the sms inbox, with the first letter removed. Tangogps showed movement all the time. I tried twice, but I never got a reply with any coordinates. > What distro did you try it on ? > SHR of dec.16, which I still use. A good distro in that calls, sms, music, and gps all works - although it could use some polishing. > Did you run it from the command line and check what status messages it > was sending ? > I didn't think of that, it is worth a try. > It works but can take a very very long time to get a fix and return > the SMS you are waiting for. > I know - so therefore I tested it when I already had a good fix. gpsd is supposed to be able to serve several clients at the same time. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
The Digital Pioneer wrote: > And when you think you've tracked down the thief and are close to > him, send an sms to make it play some music really really loud, and > go bang the thief on the head :) > > Sounds fun. I send the SMS, and suddenly a piercing siren goes off from > the guy 10 feet away, so I tackle him and take back my phone. :D I like > how you think. > > Just one little consideration: how best to turn off stolen-mode when I > get it back? Sending an SMS won't do (way too easy to spoof), it needs > to be something that can only be done by SSH or the like I think. Enter the 20-letter password that only you know about - or reflash. The thief also has the option of reflashing - but most of them don't know how. If they did - they'd likely be able to earn better working with electronics/computers. If you really hate thieves, fill all free space inside the case with explosive. Send the stolen phone a sms containing the key for self-destruct mode. In this mode it explodes a few seconds after accepting a call - the maximum damage moment when you get both the hand and the head. I would not recommend this though. It'd be illegal most places, and you'd have to be really confident about programming the trigger. (And then there is static electricity...) A safer self-destruct mode would be to erase all the flashes, including the one in the gsm modem. No boot or usb-based reflash after that, and thieves will not likely bother trying a debug board "to see if it can be fixed". If they are that good, they probably make a decent living unlocking/servicing other brands of phone already. Such a self-destruct might be useful when the phone is stolen on a trip and you don't want to follow the thief into a dubious and unknown district. And you probably don't have all the tracking equipment (extra gps & phone) with you either. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
El día Tuesday, January 27, 2009 a las 10:58:49AM +0100, arne anka escribió: > > I don't know why you guys assume that there will be another user. A > > scenario > > that I think is more probable: > > > > The thief steals the phone, immediately turns it off by taking out the > > battery. He then takes it to some 'dealer'. The dealer says, 'what the > > > > is this, I will never sell it', and throws it away. > > > exactly. > therefore i think, the proposed label inside the back cover, offering a > reward when contacted via / and fr returned, would be far > more promising. exactly; mine has a label inside: +---+ | If you got this device, let's | | asume you have found it, please | | call +49-89-61308-351. I offer a | | 100 Euro reward on device return. | +---+ HIH :-) matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ SPAMer of the year: Subject: Alle Software ist Deutsche Sprachen >From: -40 % die Neujahrsaktion ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> -Message d'origine- > > exactly. > therefore i think, the proposed label inside the back cover, > offering a > reward when contacted via / and fr returned, > would be far > more promising. Would sound like a trap for the thief, no? (even if it's worth trying). I got a bag stolen in train last month. It only contained papers for my work, my mail from the day, and my glasses. Bag itself was worth something like 10€. I guess it ended in a trash. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> I don't know why you guys assume that there will be another user. A > scenario > that I think is more probable: > > The thief steals the phone, immediately turns it off by taking out the > battery. He then takes it to some 'dealer'. The dealer says, 'what the > > is this, I will never sell it', and throws it away. exactly. therefore i think, the proposed label inside the back cover, offering a reward when contacted via / and fr returned, would be far more promising. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
2009/1/27 Lothar Behrens > Hi, > > sorry for you all that lost your phone, stolen or lost anyhow by being > careless. I also had lost a phone, but not my FR :-) > > I read the thread, and think about my contract. I have no gprs as of my old > phone didn't let me opening > web or wap pages. > > I have some questions and ideas that are in my brain :-) > I don't know why you guys assume that there will be another user. A scenario that I think is more probable: The thief steals the phone, immediately turns it off by taking out the battery. He then takes it to some 'dealer'. The dealer says, 'what the is this, I will never sell it', and throws it away. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Oooh :-) Idea: Make it shock the user if its not the right user. I smell smoke I think it is coming from over there. Hey look there is my phone. next to a flaming POS. On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Lothar Behrens wrote: > Hi, > sorry for you all that lost your phone, stolen or lost anyhow by being > careless. I also had lost a phone, but not my FR :-) > I read the thread, and think about my contract. I have no gprs as of my old > phone didn't let me opening > web or wap pages. > I have some questions and ideas that are in my brain :-) > Is there any way to use analog modem connections ? > I don't know how much CPU power is needed but when possible a phone could > send more data to a dedicated > number we could provide for that. > If a real modem connection couldn't be used, what about creating a tone > modulation for the data to be send > as a 'spoken' message to be send back to a number as a voice recorder. > The voice recorder then (a Linux PC :-) could decode the data and store the > data. > All the data could be collected on a web service to probably get the bad > guys behind to give that information to > the police. > The web service also could provide information about stolen devices, thus > when a phone gets any wlan connection, > it could check for stolen state. This is not that spoof able I think, > because the web sevice may be as usual password protected. > But the server could provide sms, mms or phone gateways for fallback > options. More gateways could be provided by us. > The new gateway information could be uploaded by interacting with the user > (software updates :-) > If a phone didn't have gprs, sms, mms, or wlan, sending prepared 'data > voices' would be an option. It didn't need to send much at first to get > an answer about the stolen state in that way. I think the recorded data > could be decoded in both directions, you don't need > much cpu power, because it will be unidirectional, or let the 'protocol' > enough time between packed sent and anser packets > for decoding. > Doing an active voice call may save us the cost of callbacks or sending back > sms. With a proper longtime protocol with long pauses or a > better solution a lot could be done. > Usually you could activate this when the sim card get's changed without any > notice to the user. He should still use the phone a while > to collect information. We then could start a preinstalled application to > authenticate the sim card change. If not options are many. > The PIN entry of the normal card could be replaced by the PIN you > provide. The user then wouldn't realize it, but claims to enter > the correct, we simply accept, but start the timer for the above actions. > Or we leave the user in claim that the documentation of it's sim card > provider doesn't seem to be correct and he/she must issue > a call with the service provider. > At that point, the service provider couldn't help for that special phone. > The new 'user' HAS to contact the manufacturer and so on > you probably get your phone back, because the manufacturer should request > for sending back the phone. > Getting the state of stolen, the phone could anyway send a message to a > police station near the user with spd-say, after > the 'anti-theft' server has located the next police station's telephone > number with any of the above options sent back to the > phone. (Maybe with manual data entry of the phone numbers by us users with > POI collection, hehe tangoGPS :-) > That way the phone could help actively. Not only 'data voices' could be > sent. > Also the collected wlan, phone towers, GPS, voice, phone numbers and what > else could help to locate the guys behind, > as the phones will walk up to the key guys before it would reselled. (Where > they all are located would be very nice POI data) > With that data, we could help the police. > A note about the attack to people currently having your phone: They may not > know, that they have a stolen phone, thus > you get to be a 'criminal' and beware, you may also get reatacked by the > person :-) > Giving the police the collected data, would propably help much more. > What about all my stupid brain stuff ? > Discuss about the possibilities - even stupid ideas as the old 'acustic > coupler'. You don't really need all the modern GPRS stuff :-) > If that is possible also the cost of operation is not very high I think - > even you change your card (you know to start a separate unlocker) > Lothar > > -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de > Lothar Behrens > Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2 > 73252 Lenningen > > > > > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Hi, sorry for you all that lost your phone, stolen or lost anyhow by being careless. I also had lost a phone, but not my FR :-) I read the thread, and think about my contract. I have no gprs as of my old phone didn't let me opening web or wap pages. I have some questions and ideas that are in my brain :-) Is there any way to use analog modem connections ? I don't know how much CPU power is needed but when possible a phone could send more data to a dedicated number we could provide for that. If a real modem connection couldn't be used, what about creating a tone modulation for the data to be send as a 'spoken' message to be send back to a number as a voice recorder. The voice recorder then (a Linux PC :-) could decode the data and store the data. All the data could be collected on a web service to probably get the bad guys behind to give that information to the police. The web service also could provide information about stolen devices, thus when a phone gets any wlan connection, it could check for stolen state. This is not that spoof able I think, because the web sevice may be as usual password protected. But the server could provide sms, mms or phone gateways for fallback options. More gateways could be provided by us. The new gateway information could be uploaded by interacting with the user (software updates :-) If a phone didn't have gprs, sms, mms, or wlan, sending prepared 'data voices' would be an option. It didn't need to send much at first to get an answer about the stolen state in that way. I think the recorded data could be decoded in both directions, you don't need much cpu power, because it will be unidirectional, or let the 'protocol' enough time between packed sent and anser packets for decoding. Doing an active voice call may save us the cost of callbacks or sending back sms. With a proper longtime protocol with long pauses or a better solution a lot could be done. Usually you could activate this when the sim card get's changed without any notice to the user. He should still use the phone a while to collect information. We then could start a preinstalled application to authenticate the sim card change. If not options are many. The PIN entry of the normal card could be replaced by the PIN you provide. The user then wouldn't realize it, but claims to enter the correct, we simply accept, but start the timer for the above actions. Or we leave the user in claim that the documentation of it's sim card provider doesn't seem to be correct and he/she must issue a call with the service provider. At that point, the service provider couldn't help for that special phone. The new 'user' HAS to contact the manufacturer and so on you probably get your phone back, because the manufacturer should request for sending back the phone. Getting the state of stolen, the phone could anyway send a message to a police station near the user with spd-say, after the 'anti-theft' server has located the next police station's telephone number with any of the above options sent back to the phone. (Maybe with manual data entry of the phone numbers by us users with POI collection, hehe tangoGPS :-) That way the phone could help actively. Not only 'data voices' could be sent. Also the collected wlan, phone towers, GPS, voice, phone numbers and what else could help to locate the guys behind, as the phones will walk up to the key guys before it would reselled. (Where they all are located would be very nice POI data) With that data, we could help the police. A note about the attack to people currently having your phone: They may not know, that they have a stolen phone, thus you get to be a 'criminal' and beware, you may also get reatacked by the person :-) Giving the police the collected data, would propably help much more. What about all my stupid brain stuff ? Discuss about the possibilities - even stupid ideas as the old 'acustic coupler'. You don't really need all the modern GPRS stuff :-) If that is possible also the cost of operation is not very high I think - even you change your card (you know to start a separate unlocker) Lothar -- | Rapid Prototyping | XSLT Codegeneration | http://www.lollisoft.de Lothar Behrens Heinrich-Scheufelen-Platz 2 73252 Lenningen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Helge Hafting wrote: > There is a program around that is supposed to look for a special keyword > in a sms, and send a gps reading back. It didn't work when I tried it, > but this appraoch can be developed into something more robust. Another > other security idea: Send an SMS to put the phone in "stolen" modus. (Do > that quickly, before they change the sim card.) > Are you talking about sms-sentry ? Which part didn't work ? What distro did you try it on ? Did you run it from the command line and check what status messages it was sending ? It works but can take a very very long time to get a fix and return the SMS you are waiting for. -- Angus Ainslie http://www.handheldshell.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Wiadomość Oryginalna Od: Helge Hafting > Also, a stolen phone could wait for a special message. If you give it up > because the telco and police won't bother - have the phone brick > itself by wiping out its flash memory. Or better, change the boot to display > "This phone is stolen from . . ." The thief throws it away - with luck, > someone else finds and returns it. > Another idea of the like: The phone is about to be stolen by muggers, the owner uses some button combo (both buttons for 3 sec?) to enable a special lock mimicking a broken screen - displaying some colorful strips, changing when the phone is being tilted (that's about what it looks like when the connector strip is damaged). This should not go away with a reboot - random text scrolling through the screen may even help with the illusion of the phone being broken. It's likely that the phone will get thrown away (or destroyed...). It might be difficult to retrieve it, though, when the battery becomes empty. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> > And when you think you've tracked down the thief and are close to him, send > an sms to make it play some music really really loud, and go bang the thief > on the head :) Sounds fun. I send the SMS, and suddenly a piercing siren goes off from the guy 10 feet away, so I tackle him and take back my phone. :D I like how you think. Just one little consideration: how best to turn off stolen-mode when I get it back? Sending an SMS won't do (way too easy to spoof), it needs to be something that can only be done by SSH or the like I think. -- Thanks, The Digital Pioneer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
2009/1/26 Helge Hafting > Also, a stolen phone could wait for a special message. If you give it up > because the telco and police won't bother - have the phone brick > itself by wiping out its flash memory. Or better, change the boot to > display > "This phone is stolen from . . ." The thief throws it away - with luck, > someone else finds and returns it. > > And when you think you've tracked down the thief and are close to him, send an sms to make it play some music really really loud, and go bang the thief on the head :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 fredrik normann escribió: > I'm a bit sad today, yesterday someone stole my phone. I helped a guy in > the street calling his girlfriend, (or that what he said) and when I got > distracted by a friend of him that asked for a cigarette he just ran > away I can only blame my self for being stupid This happend in > Montevideo Uruguay. Just to make you aware, at work we have bought three Freerunners, two of which have been stolen from checked baggage on flights from the United States to Venezuela and between Venezuela and Colombia. They also stole the chargers, leaving other electronic goods intact. Since airlines don't hold liability for any goods on checked baggage anyway, I'd strongly advise against carrying the phones in checked baggage (and exercising common sense in the rest of cases) especially while travelling to LatAm. Jose PS: on the funny side, I'm sure this will boost Freerunner's popularity on the mass market :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl9umwACgkQUWAsjQBcO4KZRgCfYwamZ9Sf0/G+91fxMSLlM5vd yaAAni3dueaUnWUL514qZx6XF+1u8U76 =jRsN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
The Digital Pioneer wrote: > Indeed, GPS fixes are tough to get, but they can be done. Just out of > curiosity, can the telco really do all that passive triangulation (or > more importantly, can I) they talk about in the movies? :P They have to do some of that anyway, just to make mobile roaming work at all. A phone that is "on" but not in use, still talk to the towers regularly. This so they know what tower to use, _if_ a call suddenly comes in. Let the phone rest atop a bad FM radio, and you will hear this in the form on radio noise now and then. You will also hear noise immediately before a call or sms comes in. When the phone is "heard" by one or more towers, the telco knows that it is in an area near all those towers. The more towers that hear the phone, the smaller the area because towers are spread and their range overlap only partially. Some towers are directional. Some towers gets a better connection to the phone than others - the phone is likely closer to those. This information alone gives you a good idea of where it is, especially in cities where towers are packed densely. I seem to recall that the gsm protocol lets the telco adjust a phone's signal strength. They generally go as low as possible, so it won't cause unnecessary interference elsewhere. They can tell the phone to vary the strength in order to measure from several towers. If they have sufficiently precise timers, then they can measure the distance from several towers too. This takes advantage of the fact that radio waves move at the speed of light, and so they arrive at different towers at a different time. 3 or more towers can then pinpoint the phone location with great precision, using exactly the same sort of calculation as a GPS unit uses when finding its position based on timing differences between 3 or more satellites. A third option is highly directional antennas. I don't think telcos bother with that though. Expensive installations and not needed for normal operation. I don't know if they use precision timers, but they can definitely see how the thief roam around. When he goes home, the police may have an idea about who has a criminal record in that area. There is a program around that is supposed to look for a special keyword in a sms, and send a gps reading back. It didn't work when I tried it, but this appraoch can be developed into something more robust. Another other security idea: Send an SMS to put the phone in "stolen" modus. (Do that quickly, before they change the sim card.) Stolen mode: * Send gps coordinates regularly, by SMS to a configured number. * Send a copy of every sms sent and received to the same place. * Send the phone log whenever a call is made * Send details about any new SIM card inserted. * If there is enough disk space, record conversations and play them back to a configured number when the thief isn't using the phone. Could be interesting. Also, a stolen phone could wait for a special message. If you give it up because the telco and police won't bother - have the phone brick itself by wiping out its flash memory. Or better, change the boot to display "This phone is stolen from . . ." The thief throws it away - with luck, someone else finds and returns it. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
> especially in Russia itself, i.e. outside Moscow. you made my day! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
El día Monday, January 26, 2009 a las 10:20:09AM +0100, Pander escribió: > Sorry for you, hope you will be over it soon and up and running with a > new one. > > For any ideas regarding this issue, please document them in the Wiki: > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Anti-Theft_Mode I think that someone who has stolen a FR will not be willing to use it as a phone and perhaps not even has the knowledge to make something useful with it. Therefor I would insert a small offer in the case of the FR saying "Call me at phone X and I will pay you Y on device return." I do this as well with my FreeBSD based laptops. matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.oclc.org/ http://www.UnixArea.de/ b http://gurucubano.blogspot.com/ SPAMer of the year: Subject: Alle Software ist Deutsche Sprachen >From: -40 % die Neujahrsaktion ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Sorry for you, hope you will be over it soon and up and running with a new one. For any ideas regarding this issue, please document them in the Wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Anti-Theft_Mode fredrik normann wrote: > I'm a bit sad today, yesterday someone stole my phone. I helped a guy in > the street calling his girlfriend, (or that what he said) and when I got > distracted by a friend of him that asked for a cigarette he just ran > away I can only blame my self for being stupid This happend in > Montevideo Uruguay. > > This episode made me think of having some kind of tracking program. > > This is the idea: > When someone inserts a new simcard that is not authorized in someway, it > will start to send it's position via sms to a predefined number or a > sms-email gateway. This program could easily be disabled by a > knowledgeable user but when random people just take your phone, you can > asume that they don't know how to flash the phone. > > This is a very rough description of the idea, but I've just been > thinking about it today... It's really sad to not have a Neo anymore > when I finnaly started to love my phone and I don't have money to buy a > new one... gah > > -fredrik-normann- > > > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
2009/1/26 George Brooke > On Sunday 25 January 2009 23:47:07 fredrik normann wrote: > > This episode made me think of having some kind of tracking program. > Don't worry, just wait until he turns up here asking for help with the > phone > he just stole... > LOL :) this should be added to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jokes Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On 26/01/2009 00:47, fredrik normann wrote: | ... I can only blame my self for being stupid don't blame yourself, this are things that happen :( I think what you are thinking about is possible to do. I was thinking for something about this. Now I have something else to complete, but when I will finish, I will take in consideration your idea. I think is something a lot of us need. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:10:54 -0600, The Digital Pioneer wrote: > Indeed, GPS fixes are tough to get, but they can be done. Just out of > curiosity, can the telco really do all that passive triangulation (or more > importantly, can I) they talk about in the movies? :P > > -- > Thanks, > > The Digital Pioneer http://n2.nabble.com/Future-of-location-services-on-OM-td2136697ef1958.html Some of the points mentioned within are that with the available databases of cell-tower locations and the information provided by the towers (including range within 500m IIRC) the triangulation accuracy can be pretty good, provided multiple towers are 'visible' and that urban canyons aren't causing too much multipath madness. It's also potentially helpful just to know location "within 5 km", to speed up the 'assisted' part of AGPS. j -- Joel Newkirk http://jthinks.com (blog) http://newkirk.us/om (FR stuff) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
The Digital Pioneer пишет: > This is an excellent idea. I've been wondering about this. If I had > GPRS, I would SSH in (possible? Getting the IP would be tricky) and pull > GPS coordinates. But I don't have GPRS. I think it would be good to > implement some kind of SIM-based security, along with a way to send some > kind of panic SMS. Both would activate some kind of daemon that pulls > coords from GPS whenever possible and sends them back to you. Maybe have > it call you at home and a TTS engine gives them to you if you can't get > SMS without your phone. Just some ideas. Would be AWESOME to have a > phone that works to return to its owner though. Lord of the Rings like. :P > > As you maybe can tell, I've considered this a little just in case > someone steals my $400 baby. I've already thought about something like that when I bought the device, primarily because street robberies are still very common in Russia, especially in Russia itself, i.e. outside Moscow. However, there is one serious problem with this: the device can be easily reflashed. And robbers usually do not use stolen phones themselves, but sell them to second-hand phone resellers, who usually have staff with educated engineers. And even if we had some protection for flashing, like password in u-boot, there is not much we can do about people who have access to JTAG and other sophisticated debugging hardware, and used to cracking (reflashing, unlocking, messing with IMEI, ...) proprietary phones with no documentation at all, like open wiki with step-by-step instructions. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Apparently yes: here in Oz you can go to your telco and get the phone disabled if its been stolen - (tahts the phone itself, not the SIM is prevented from connecting - via IMIE I think). The cops can get location info, thoughs it is apparently more like "somewhere about there" in accuracy. Thats why I suggested wifi location like Skyhook - I think gps is a really flakey solution (going by experience with the FR) - the likely hood of a flat battery before you get a fix in most scenarios is very high, and what if the user notices it - unless you start working like a rootkit and hiding the app, which is starting to get very sophisticated! So I think gps, while be good, but shouldnt be relied on. BillK On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 20:10 -0600, The Digital Pioneer wrote: > Indeed, GPS fixes are tough to get, but they can be done. Just out of > curiosity, can the telco really do all that passive triangulation (or > more importantly, can I) they talk about in the movies? :P > > -- > > > Thanks, > > The Digital Pioneer -- William Kenworthy Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Indeed, GPS fixes are tough to get, but they can be done. Just out of curiosity, can the telco really do all that passive triangulation (or more importantly, can I) they talk about in the movies? :P -- Thanks, The Digital Pioneer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
Problem with gps is that its slow to get a fix, sometimes very slow, and the phone may (probably?) be indoors or a car much of the time - so waiting for a fix is going to be a problem. Trigger with an "unknown" SIM card. Send a first "panic, I've been stolen!" sms message with as much detail as possible pulled from the SIM card, network settings (iwlist eth0 scan - and at your end try and locate on the wifi location database) - say forward their SIM phonebook to yourself (maybe one sms per contact to burn up their credit :) Then background and wait for a gps fix ... Meanwhile, start ringing their phone contacts ... starting with their mother :) BillK On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 19:51 -0600, The Digital Pioneer wrote: > This is an excellent idea. I've been wondering about this. If I had > GPRS, I would SSH in (possible? Getting the IP would be tricky) and > pull GPS coordinates. But I don't have GPRS. I think it would be good > to implement some kind of SIM-based security, along with a way to send > some kind of panic SMS. Both would activate some kind of daemon that > pulls coords from GPS whenever possible and sends them back to you. > Maybe have it call you at home and a TTS engine gives them to you if > you can't get SMS without your phone. Just some ideas. Would be > AWESOME to have a phone that works to return to its owner though. Lord > of the Rings like. :P > > As you maybe can tell, I've considered this a little just in case > someone steals my $400 baby. > > -- > > > Thanks, > > The Digital Pioneer > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- William Kenworthy Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
This is an excellent idea. I've been wondering about this. If I had GPRS, I would SSH in (possible? Getting the IP would be tricky) and pull GPS coordinates. But I don't have GPRS. I think it would be good to implement some kind of SIM-based security, along with a way to send some kind of panic SMS. Both would activate some kind of daemon that pulls coords from GPS whenever possible and sends them back to you. Maybe have it call you at home and a TTS engine gives them to you if you can't get SMS without your phone. Just some ideas. Would be AWESOME to have a phone that works to return to its owner though. Lord of the Rings like. :P As you maybe can tell, I've considered this a little just in case someone steals my $400 baby. -- Thanks, The Digital Pioneer ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
2009/1/26 fredrik normann : > I'm a bit sad today, yesterday someone stole my phone. I helped a guy in the > street calling his girlfriend, (or that what he said) and when I got > distracted by a friend of him that asked for a cigarette he just ran > away I can only blame my self for being stupid This happend in > Montevideo Uruguay. if your telco is half-way decent, and you tell them it's been stolen, they should help. i know vodafone in nz will help track stolen phones. so long as the number was registered to you, they are in a position to assist. even if the sim has been changed, the imei will remain the same, and that will tie up to any activity with your number. give them a call, you never know. at least they will be able to prevent it connecting to their network, so no-one can use it. there may even be a nationwide scheme for preventing stolen phones being used on *any* network ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
This sounds like a modified version of sms-entry: http://www.opkg.org/package_92.html Sorry to here you've lost yours. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:53 PM, George Brooke wrote: > On Sunday 25 January 2009 23:47:07 fredrik normann wrote: > > This episode made me think of having some kind of tracking program. > Don't worry, just wait until he turns up here asking for help with the > phone > he just stole... lol The phone has very low value for someone that don't understands it... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
On Sunday 25 January 2009 23:47:07 fredrik normann wrote: > This episode made me think of having some kind of tracking program. Don't worry, just wait until he turns up here asking for help with the phone he just stole... solar.george signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Someone stole my Neo Freerunner... :(
I'm a bit sad today, yesterday someone stole my phone. I helped a guy in the street calling his girlfriend, (or that what he said) and when I got distracted by a friend of him that asked for a cigarette he just ran away I can only blame my self for being stupid This happend in Montevideo Uruguay. This episode made me think of having some kind of tracking program. This is the idea: When someone inserts a new simcard that is not authorized in someway, it will start to send it's position via sms to a predefined number or a sms-email gateway. This program could easily be disabled by a knowledgeable user but when random people just take your phone, you can asume that they don't know how to flash the phone. This is a very rough description of the idea, but I've just been thinking about it today... It's really sad to not have a Neo anymore when I finnaly started to love my phone and I don't have money to buy a new one... gah -fredrik-normann- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: getting error while trying to flash my neo freerunner
Detructor wrote: > Okay, I've now bootet my Neo into the NAND boot menu and started > flashing...and it works! Excellent news, although I'm sure I join you in wondering why.. > > I don't know why, but in NOR it doesn't work... Very odd. And at first you had tried both NAND and NOR, and both worked? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: getting error while trying to flash my neo freerunner
Okay, I've now bootet my Neo into the NAND boot menu and started flashing...and it works! I don't know why, but in NOR it doesn't work... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: getting error while trying to flash my neo freerunner
Detructor wrote: > Hey guys, > > I hope you can help me, I've the following problem: > > When I try to flash the neo on my laptop I get a > "Starting download: [dfu_download error -71" > > sometimes the download starts and then I get the error. > > When I get the neo in June, I could flash it without getting this error. > > My operating system: Ubuntu 8.04.1 > > I ask here, because I can't find anything about this error in the www > (only 3 entries in google and none of it helps). Moving to support Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
getting error while trying to flash my neo freerunner
Hey guys, I hope you can help me, I've the following problem: When I try to flash the neo on my laptop I get a "Starting download: [dfu_download error -71" sometimes the download starts and then I get the error. When I get the neo in June, I could flash it without getting this error. My operating system: Ubuntu 8.04.1 I ask here, because I can't find anything about this error in the www (only 3 entries in google and none of it helps). hope for help Detructor ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
my neo
Hi I have been tracking this project for almost an year now. But its still not in shape where I can buy it. Two things that I absolutely need are: Good SMS subsystem EDGE support Without these I wont be able to use this as my primary phone. I would have loved to buy it but seriously my personal budget doesn't allow me to have this as a secondary phone. I currently own a motorokr E6 just for the love of Linux but the problem with moto people are they don't release anything Ezx sources - no sign and kernel they keep on postponing. My dream neo is: OMAP3530 http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html I see lot of benefits from this shift Camera interface Two USB one of them OTG On chip 2D/3D accelerator -- I didn't get much info about glamo 3362 still TI looks better Host of other goodies that you can look in the page And I don't see drivers to be a very big problem, seems like we will get another community working simultaneously http://beagleboard.org/ and TI is in mood of cooperating in this venture. Camera - atleast 2mp -- A camera which can support addon lenses and filter (as suggested by someone in wiki wishlist) will be awesome Bigger screen 3.5 or 4" EDGE please if not 3G USB 2.0 OTG that will automatically come with OMAP3530 A smaller stylus - this stylus is good but not for every one please provide support in the casing for a smaller stylus as well Rectangular casing -- the lower portion I think can be easily flattened and upper portion can also be done with some effort though. May be a recess in PCB for GPS antenna than putting it on top of it 3.5mm jack -- my current phone has one Better battery may be some 2000 or 2300mAh will be cool even if it makes it a little fatter. A device like this must have good battery backup The kind of framework the project is going towards I would like more RAM may be 512MB LPDDR Last thing I want is expansion option(this one also is there in wiki wishlist). My idea is to use a ne connector that internally uses USB. The device can be given to the consumer with a dummy module fitted that just gives the mini-usb But possibilities are limitless -- removable camera -- user may buy the type of camera he wants from several modules -- extra SD card stack -- may be extra battery -- special purpose radios -- mini projector -- projection keyboard -- HDD -- finger print scanner -- smartcard reader -- Wi-Max or any other future tech -- I won't mind if somebody puts a extra processor in removable module :-) (forget the last one) And one more thing I browsed the wiki but couldn't find info about the status and code of SMS subsystem. I would like to contribut in that. Not the python one, Standard C/C++ one. I don't know python :-( Thanks & Regards, Pritam Ghanghas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Selling my Neo 1973
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Igor Foox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I've had a Neo 1973 since they shipped first a while ago. Unfortunately I > never had the time to hack on it, or to play around with it sufficiently to > make the purchase worth while. So I decided to sell the device so that > someone else might use it. Do you have Neo or Neo Advance? I am interested but need to have some sort of guarantee or verification with respect to the unit's condition. I'll do a bank transfer or any other way which is feasible for you and me both. > > I'm asking for $150 (Canadian or US). > > I'm located in Toronto, Canada. I can ship it to wherever you'd like or if > you're in the area we can arrange to meet. If anyone's interested, please > let me know. Any idea how long it will take in shipment to Asia Pacific region? We can proceed on shazalive (at) gmail.com > > Happy hacking! :-) > Igor > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- Shaz ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Selling my Neo 1973
Hi, I've had a Neo 1973 since they shipped first a while ago. Unfortunately I never had the time to hack on it, or to play around with it sufficiently to make the purchase worth while. So I decided to sell the device so that someone else might use it. I'm asking for $150 (Canadian or US). I'm located in Toronto, Canada. I can ship it to wherever you'd like or if you're in the area we can arrange to meet. If anyone's interested, please let me know. Happy hacking! :-) Igor ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I'm back with my neo.. where to begin?
andy wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Guys, I don't want to start a whole "I've just bought a neo - what do I do" thread.. so I'm going to keep this short. Please RTFM at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 Audrius ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I'm back with my neo.. where to begin?
> Interesting note on the qtopia image I tried.. they'd receive texts, but > not *appear* to register on the network/allow calls. All academic as > this is the openmoko list though. Do you mean the the signal strength meter did not show but a message saying no network did? I've come across a way that overcomes that but its very unscientific. 1. Open the back 2. Remove battery 3. Push the sim card holder in the direction it locks into (i.e. towards the bottom of the neo) 4. When you replace the battery press it down above the sim card Now, I know your probably thinking "do you also stand on one leg" but this method has never failed me, I heard another guy on the mailing list put a peice of paper between the battery and the simcard holder to solve this problem ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I'm back with my neo.. where to begin?
I like the unstable OM images from 1/27/08 if your not in a GSM 800 area this should work for you >>> andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 01/28/08 4:19 PM >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Guys, I don't want to start a whole "I've just bought a neo - what do I do" thread.. so I'm going to keep this short. Can someone give me a brief overview about the best way to get my neo up and running. I've had a look at the qTopia release and a fairly recent openmoko image. Can someone provide me with a pairing of either openmoko/qtopia kernel and rootfs images which go well together and will give me a good base for further development. Interesting note on the qtopia image I tried.. they'd receive texts, but not *appear* to register on the network/allow calls. All academic as this is the openmoko list though. Regards, andylockran -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnkb3auMjEM4rxIQRAqo0AKC/nKBN1qUPk1GxXAzmHMsHeEwqVQCeLyIi UHQz8IcmdYZDlRjBnkeM2pA= =+6/s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I'm back with my neo.. where to begin?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Guys, I don't want to start a whole "I've just bought a neo - what do I do" thread.. so I'm going to keep this short. Can someone give me a brief overview about the best way to get my neo up and running. I've had a look at the qTopia release and a fairly recent openmoko image. Can someone provide me with a pairing of either openmoko/qtopia kernel and rootfs images which go well together and will give me a good base for further development. Interesting note on the qtopia image I tried.. they'd receive texts, but not *appear* to register on the network/allow calls. All academic as this is the openmoko list though. Regards, andylockran -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnkb3auMjEM4rxIQRAqo0AKC/nKBN1qUPk1GxXAzmHMsHeEwqVQCeLyIi UHQz8IcmdYZDlRjBnkeM2pA= =+6/s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:24:25 -0500 Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > > > Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if > > the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. > > But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea > for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs > several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be > worried about false alarms. turn off sim-change-alarm change sim turn on sim-change-alarm (if you never want it, never turn it on in the first place) of course i assume you can turn it off. the idea being a thief doesn't know this phone and all its intricate settings (maybe you need a pin number to turn it on/off to make sure the thief can't just read the manual first then turn it off. doesn't stop reflashing - but let's assume the thief isn't that high-tech yet). maybe you can register sims? put in a new sim and a dialog comes up "new unregistered sim? register?" (and then enter your pin # to register. if you don't the sim is accepted but the phone goes into silent alarm mode). in the end - this is what an open phone is all about. all of you are discussing solutions and various attacks that may or may not work for you to secure your phone in the event of loss. in the end you can write whatever works for you and put it on! :) OpenMoko is not going to even think of stopping you :) We're going to give a helping hand. :) -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 21:24, Ian Darwin wrote: > > Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if > > the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. > > But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea > for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs > several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be > worried about false alarms. Well, it should provide some way of switching sim-cards anyway and even I wouldn't want to see it enabled by default. But when that is covered, I don't know why it couldn't be a part of the base system. It this kind of stuff which sets OpenMoko apart from an 'normal' smartphone. But I do agree there it should be handled properly, otherwise it will become useless in practice. AVee -- Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 3:36 PM, Tomi N/A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's an idea. > Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in > space and time (or spacetime, if you like). ... > When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made > SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how > it got there. > The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or > to keep moving. :) This is yet another great idea. One consideration with regard to power: I'm not entirely sure how much network traffic my 2 year old CDMA LG from Sprint uses while doing this sort of positional mapping (I use the "Allsport GPS" program while I bikeride actually, works rather nicely and gives gmaps as output) but assuming only 1 network ping to get ephemeris data, the phone dies after about 6 hours. I've estimated its position fixing to be about once every 2-3 seconds. To be considered, however, is that while in a java applet my phone never turns off the display; it only dims. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 1:24 PM, Ian Darwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea > for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs > several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be > worried about false alarms. This is based upon my habits: this would be a one-carrier phone with no reason to switch it in my day-to-day use. For me, if the card changed, I wouldnt be the one doing it. And if I were, well, i know I made my phone act this way :) This is simply my personal idea that I will make happen. Not part of the mainline code. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
> Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if > the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Here's an idea. Let's say that the phone keeps a complete history of it's movement in space and time (or spacetime, if you like). Let's say we set it to check it's position every minute or so (is this viable, with respect to the battery capacity)? Let's say we set it it to send it's position on every significant change of direction (i.e. taking a turn), but only when it moves to coordinates it hasn't moved to before. This data push might be in batch to conserve power/bandwidth, sending info every 20 minutes or so. This seems wasteful (battery-wise), but I suspect a great many people travel the same 200 km 99% of the time so the phone would simply not send anything most of the time. Effects? While you're using your phone, you're building something that could become an openstreetmap map of your movements which is very commendable. Good for you! :) When you're phone is stolen - and the above behavior is made SIM-independent - you get regular tips on where your phone is and how it got there. The only thing a thief could do is sabotage/overwrite the program...or to keep moving. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Then I send a special SMS which switches the Neo to "stolen mode" :) 2007/11/9, Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: > > ... > > Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if > > the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. > > Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM > card? > > Some suggestions were made last month: > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html > I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that > anti-theft systems should be possible. > > Stroller. > > > > * Common usage of "begs the question" - no semantics flamewars, please. > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- http://www.gnuffy.org - Real Community Distro http://www.gnuffy.org/index.php/GnuEm - Gnuffy on Ipaq (Codename Peggy) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 9 Nov 2007, at 18:45, Mike Hodson wrote: ... Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Of course this begs the question* - what if they DON'T change the SIM card? Some suggestions were made last month: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-October/011001.html I can't remember all the details, but I think the conclusion was that anti-theft systems should be possible. Stroller. * Common usage of "begs the question" - no semantics flamewars, please. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 9:38 AM, AVee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on > with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? > I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. You don't know the common street person. Atleast here in the USA where GSM is a bit of a nonstandard. I worked at Radio Shack for 4 years, and the majority of the customerbase I sold them to really had no clue about how gsm worked or what the card was for. Some enterprising people might, but thats covered by the next bit > This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's > location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery > very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should > not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve > it. Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 17:14, Mike Hodson wrote: > On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated "I'm > > here" messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief > > being unable to acquire a suitable charger. > > > > Stroller. > > The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone > for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: > I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps > keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. AVee -- You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated "I'm > here" messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief > being unable to acquire a suitable charger. > > Stroller. > The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. As I will most likely be using my email account to send thru the carrier's sms gateway, the phone will autoformat the reply as a google maps url for ease of clicking. I look and find that my phone is somewhere ive never been so i know its stolen and not lost in my room. At this point i send another keyword/phrase to tell it that its stolen. The phone will then automatically lock down into a mode where its still usable as a phone, so that the thief doesnt get any weird ideas of just turning it off and throwing it somewhere cos he cant use it, maybe let him call a few friends, but there will be NO access to the normal phonebook, certain apps will be disabled/no longer show up, and any attempts of texting would silently be forwarded to me along with their recipient. Keep the thief thinking he has a new toy for himself. >From here I could call the police and have them talk to the thief. I'd provide them turn by turn directions. ;) Mike ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 8 Nov 2007, at 21:22, Robin Paulson wrote: ... i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. ... I'd guess that only 1% of the population knows what a Neo looks like, or would even have the skill to reflash after learning about the Neo via Google. I think it's reaching to suggest that your Neo's going to fall into the hands of a crook who happens to be in that 1% of the population. From all the headlines we see on Slashdot / Reddit / wherever about thieves uploading photos from the webcam of a stolen laptop onto the owner's Flikr account, I'd be quite confident of a stolen piece of tech being used as-is at least for a number of days, until it reaches someone with the clues to push the factory-reset button. With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated "I'm here" messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
I don't see why you don't do this with bluetooth. If you have a headset that you will always have in your bag or on your person (ie. it doesn't get left behind with your phone if you leave) you can run this script on your Neo. You just have it constantly pinging the headset and testing the rssi of the connection. When it goes below a point, have it play a siren ring tone. http://www.goitexpert.com/entry.cfm?entry=Use-Your-Bluetooth-Cell-Phone-as-a-Proximity-Card-for-your-Laptop It seems to work for me. For my phone/dongle combination, I would probably set the distance at a 0 or a -5 for the minimum RSSI before making a siren noise. For the script in the link, you would not have anything for NEAR_CMD and FAR_CMD="mpg123 siren.mp3" for example. Does this sound feasible? It could give you an excuse to get a bluetooth headset :-). Of course ,then again, if your headset runs out of batteries then your phone will start alerting everybody on the train while you struggle to kill the looping background process :-). Randall On 11/8/07, Henryk Plötz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Moin, > > Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: > > > ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way > > to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are > > free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? > > It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just > that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You > should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular > intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. > (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo > buzzer or vibrator.) > > In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the > Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already > had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different > context). > > The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, > but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no > Wifi). But it's small and very low power. > > -- > Henryk Plötz > Grüße aus Berlin > ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Moin, Am Fri, 9 Nov 2007 10:22:24 +1300 schrieb Robin Paulson: > ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way > to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are > free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? It should be possible to get http://www.openbeacon.org/ to do just that. The tags can talk to each other or to a base station. You should be able to program two tags to ping each other in regular intervals and then make themselves noticeable when they lose contact. (There are two I/O pins that could be connected to an external piezo buzzer or vibrator.) In principle it should even be possible to fit one of the tags into the Neo, though that might require a new tag PCB design. I think roh already had dreamed about something like that some time before (in a different context). The radio transceiver used by OpenBeacon operates in the 2.4GHz band, but does not follow any particular standard (e.g. no Bluetooth, no Wifi). But it's small and very low power. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 00:15:09 AVee wrote: > On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: > > > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my > > > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or > > > external device) when it moves out of range. > > > > How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing > > is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget > > that aswell > > You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise > when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still > being within hearing distance. > thats basically the approach that sonyericsson took with their bluetooth watch. if said watch lost contact with the phone, it would vibrate to tell the wearer about it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: > > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my > > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or > > external device) when it moves out of range. > > How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing > is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget > that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. Another option would be to buy one of these personal GSM jammers and program the Neo to make a noise when it finds a network. But that approach might have some disadvantages ;-) AVee -- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
there was another one... it was a pair of little metal boxes... you stuck one to the object... the other one would sound an alarm if you walked away On 11/8/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jeff Andros wrote: > > Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on > > their site... look around, they're out there > > It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain > range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the > software for the gadget was Windows-only. > > -id > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
Jeff Andros wrote: Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there It was a USB dongle to lock your PC if you moved outside a certain range, if I recall. I remember seeing it too at one point, but the software for the gadget was Windows-only. -id ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
> what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or > external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell > it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple > technology for > measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Failing that, why don't you try the simple technology called the lanyard and carrying pouch that came with the neo. Since my neo sometimes doesn't register the sim card and has crap battery life (thanks qtopia) it sits on my desk. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On 11/8/07, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or > external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any > fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for > measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice Thinkgeek used to sell something like this, but I couldn't find it on their site... look around, they're out there -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
My idea was an application to : when you lost your Neo, send a "special" SMS with the cellular phone of a friend, to your Neo. The goal is that the Neo will answer the coordinates X and Y with GPS. Maybe in the future transform coordinates to an real adress... 2007/11/8, Robin Paulson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in > June > > i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that > will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on > it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i > want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left > it behind > > what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my > wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or > external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any > fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for > measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice > > ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way > to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are > free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? > > of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could > lose > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Florent Delvaille ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
i'm going to lose my neo....
i know i will, it's a certainty. i lost a phone 2 weeks ago and another in June i know it's got a gps and can e-mail/text us where it is, but that will only work if someone doesn't re-flash it and has other caveats on it working. Besides, I'd rather it not get that far away from me, i want to know as soon as i get off my seat on the train, that I've left it behind what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. it doesn't have to be any fancy bluetooth or wi-fi or GPS thing, some simple technology for measuring proximity and triggering a signal would suffice ideas? any other absent-minded daydreamers out there? is RFID the way to go? are there any unlicensed parts of the radio spectrum that are free for use by anyone using low-powered radio transmitters? of course, this tech could be applied to any object that a person could lose ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No time for my Neo
I'm interested, but I live in Australia. Would you consider posting it? What condition is the Neo in? How much were you after for it? Tim Robert Ferguson wrote: Hi all, I have absolutely no time to play with my Neo (the black and silver one), so I am considering parting with it. If anyone is interested in buying it (especially if you live near Boston) and you have a reasonable offer please let me know. Best Regards, Rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No time for my Neo
Hi all, I have absolutely no time to play with my Neo (the black and silver one), so I am considering parting with it. If anyone is interested in buying it (especially if you live near Boston) and you have a reasonable offer please let me know. Best Regards, Rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
