Re: need someone to develop this....
Remember this varies with national legislation. In the UK there is AFAIK no 1 year grace period; public disclosure instantly renders the invention unpatentable. On Sunday 02 December 2007, Clayton Jones wrote: Just a quick note based on all the patent research i've done: Any disclosure in a public forum, whether limited in distribution or not, is considered public disclosure. As a matter of fact, telling anyone your idea (other than the people who are co-inventors) is considered public disclosure. However, that does NOT preclude you from filing a patent - all it does is limit the amount of time you have to file a patent. Once public disclosure is made, you have 1 year to file an application with the US Patent office. After that, it's considered that you've given up any rights to patent. However, in practical terms it's more difficult to prove original invention once disclosure is made unles you keep a detailed, dated notebook (in ink). On Dec 1, 2007 12:23 PM, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
ok-for hardware and software concerns, how can we donate an idea to the public, to guarantee the inability of someone patenting the idea? Something above just mentioning it on a public/mediated ml. In addition, could you publicly state your idea to timestamp it for patenting? -Kyle On Dec 3, 2007 4:49 AM, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember this varies with national legislation. In the UK there is AFAIK no 1 year grace period; public disclosure instantly renders the invention unpatentable. On Sunday 02 December 2007, Clayton Jones wrote: Just a quick note based on all the patent research i've done: Any disclosure in a public forum, whether limited in distribution or not, is considered public disclosure. As a matter of fact, telling anyone your idea (other than the people who are co-inventors) is considered public disclosure. However, that does NOT preclude you from filing a patent - all it does is limit the amount of time you have to file a patent. Once public disclosure is made, you have 1 year to file an application with the US Patent office. After that, it's considered that you've given up any rights to patent. However, in practical terms it's more difficult to prove original invention once disclosure is made unles you keep a detailed, dated notebook (in ink). On Dec 1, 2007 12:23 PM, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
For a proper answer you'll have to ask a patent lawyer in your jurisdiction. The rules change from country to country, and are possibly much more nuanced than a non-lawyer will remember. There's a fine example on Groklaw where a US patent lawyer explains the various cutoff dates which may or may not apply when searching for prior art to invalidate a patent depending on the exact circumstances surrounding the patent. I got the impression that in the US public disclosure might be interpreted more narrowly than the fairly broad interpretation I understand it has here in the UK too. That said, I'm not sure there's anything you can do to guarantee someone can't patent the idea. The best you can do is maximise the chance of getting the patent invalidated after the event. I would certainly hope that posting to a technical mailing list with multiple web archives would be a sufficient public disclosure with a verifiable date, but with patent systems as broken as they seem to be I wouldn't bet on it. On Monday 03 December 2007, Kyle Bassett wrote: ok-for hardware and software concerns, how can we donate an idea to the public, to guarantee the inability of someone patenting the idea? Something above just mentioning it on a public/mediated ml. In addition, could you publicly state your idea to timestamp it for patenting? -Kyle On Dec 3, 2007 4:49 AM, Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember this varies with national legislation. In the UK there is AFAIK no 1 year grace period; public disclosure instantly renders the invention unpatentable. On Sunday 02 December 2007, Clayton Jones wrote: Just a quick note based on all the patent research i've done: Any disclosure in a public forum, whether limited in distribution or not, is considered public disclosure. As a matter of fact, telling anyone your idea (other than the people who are co-inventors) is considered public disclosure. However, that does NOT preclude you from filing a patent - all it does is limit the amount of time you have to file a patent. Once public disclosure is made, you have 1 year to file an application with the US Patent office. After that, it's considered that you've given up any rights to patent. However, in practical terms it's more difficult to prove original invention once disclosure is made unles you keep a detailed, dated notebook (in ink). On Dec 1, 2007 12:23 PM, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means that disclosure arguments are rendered moot by prior art. Moreover, trying to patent something that someone else invented is theft of intellectual property... preventing this is one of the reasons the GPL exists. If you want to go forward on this, check with the authors(see below for contact information) they'd probably be delighted to have community help in developing it. Authors(taken from http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~rod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf ): John Williamson Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roderick Murray-Smith Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and Hamilton Institute National University of Ireland Maynooth, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Hughes Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and SAMH Engineering -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Actually, I don't think shoogle mentioned the pairing-shaking security idea. I thought that they were only creating non visual user interfaces to things like number of SMSs and battery charge. The main similarity is shaking, which maracas and rainsticks both clearly have prior art on these ideas. Randall On 12/3/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means that disclosure arguments are rendered moot by prior art. Moreover, trying to patent something that someone else invented is theft of intellectual property... preventing this is one of the reasons the GPL exists. If you want to go forward on this, check with the authors(see below for contact information) they'd probably be delighted to have community help in developing it. Authors(taken from http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~rod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdfhttp://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Erod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf): John Williamson Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roderick Murray-Smith Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and Hamilton Institute National University of Ireland Maynooth, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Hughes Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and SAMH Engineering -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
As I understand it this part of the thread has wandered OT onto the generalities of public disclosure and its effect on patentability. There has been no suggestion that anyone should knowingly try to patent somebody else's idea. The shake-to-pair video is credited to Rene Mayrhofer and Hans Gellersen at Lancaster University, and doesn't seem related to Shoogle. For all I know Heikki Soerum had the idea independently. On Monday 03 December 2007, Jeff Andros wrote: um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means that disclosure arguments are rendered moot by prior art. Moreover, trying to patent something that someone else invented is theft of intellectual property... preventing this is one of the reasons the GPL exists. If you want to go forward on this, check with the authors(see below for contact information) they'd probably be delighted to have community help in developing it. Authors(taken from http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~rod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf ): John Williamson Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roderick Murray-Smith Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and Hamilton Institute National University of Ireland Maynooth, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Hughes Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and SAMH Engineering ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Dec 3, 2007 12:02 PM, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I don't think shoogle mentioned the pairing-shaking security idea. I thought that they were only creating non visual user interfaces to things like number of SMSs and battery charge. The main similarity is shaking, which maracas and rainsticks both clearly have prior art on these ideas. Randall Actually, maracas and rainsticks clearly do not have prior art on these ideas. I sent out a link to this youtube video when the idea was first mentioned. Here it is again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
sorry, missed some of the topic shift, but again, there's that youtube video posted previously showing something extremely similar It's also interesting that this could work more like a pre-shared key... we don't have to use asynchronous crypto since both devices could generate the same key off of the shake pattern the challenge in doing this is determining when the shake starts to get everything synchronized On 12/3/07, Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I don't think shoogle mentioned the pairing-shaking security idea. I thought that they were only creating non visual user interfaces to things like number of SMSs and battery charge. The main similarity is shaking, which maracas and rainsticks both clearly have prior art on these ideas. Randall On 12/3/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means that disclosure arguments are rendered moot by prior art. Moreover, trying to patent something that someone else invented is theft of intellectual property... preventing this is one of the reasons the GPL exists. If you want to go forward on this, check with the authors(see below for contact information) they'd probably be delighted to have community help in developing it. Authors(taken from http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~rod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdfhttp://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Erod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf): John Williamson Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roderick Murray-Smith Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and Hamilton Institute National University of Ireland Maynooth, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Hughes Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and SAMH Engineering -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
Exactly, Jeff didn't read the actual email (or doesn't understand Patents). Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randall Mason Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:03 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Actually, I don't think shoogle mentioned the pairing-shaking security idea. I thought that they were only creating non visual user interfaces to things like number of SMSs and battery charge. The main similarity is shaking, which maracas and rainsticks both clearly have prior art on these ideas. Randall On 12/3/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means that disclosure arguments are rendered moot by prior art. Moreover, trying to patent something that someone else invented is theft of intellectual property... preventing this is one of the reasons the GPL exists. If you want to go forward on this, check with the authors(see below for contact information) they'd probably be delighted to have community help in developing it. Authors(taken from http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~rod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Erod/publications/WilMurHug07Interactive.pdf ): John Williamson Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Roderick Murray-Smith Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and Hamilton Institute National University of Ireland Maynooth, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephen Hughes Dept. Computing Science University of Glasgow Glasgow G!2 8QQ, UK and SAMH Engineering -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Randall Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. You mean... like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Dec 3, 2007 10:51 AM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Via Morse code it could exchange data with the user that way, too. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Oh yeah, you could totally do it in morse code, which would be faster then if you actually sent bits represented by vibrations. On Dec 3, 2007 11:51 AM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. You mean... like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
what a great way to: a-learn morse code b-bring it back in style! -Kyle On Dec 3, 2007 1:01 PM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yeah, you could totally do it in morse code, which would be faster then if you actually sent bits represented by vibrations. On Dec 3, 2007 11:51 AM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. You mean... like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Dec 3, 2007 10:51 AM, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Phones could be placed in paper cups and connected by a piece of string... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) This is really a great idea. I'm positive we could run pppd over such a link. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Jay Vaughan wrote: An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) This is really a great idea. I'm positive we could run pppd over such a link. And before we start any discussion of patenting this, I know that the Dixie Cup Modem was discussed some 15 years ago at a bar during a Usenix conference. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Although the disclosure itself in a trackable dated message forum would seem to prove pretty conclusivly that AT THAT TIME anyway you had the idea. So it dates the idea As to whether or not it is public well that perhaps depends perhaps on the exclusivity of the forum. Additionally there are many people who you can disclose ideas to without it being deemed public. For example within a work organization. Or within your lawyer or legal advisors office. Or within a group of coinventors. A message forum could easily be a considered most of those even if it was not formed for profit or for the benefit of all involved. Indeed many work organizations don't benefit all involved. However, in practical terms it's more difficult to prove original invention once disclosure is made unles you keep a detailed, dated notebook (in ink). On Dec 1, 2007 12:23 PM, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
I'm a bit surprised about the volume of patent discussion I generated but in 20/20 hindsight I should have seen it coming. Please, let's move legalese discussions over to another thread/topic: [topic-shift] copyrighting/copylefting/patenting hardware and software Anyway, since I'm not an software developer or much of an active participant on the mailinglist I just want to make an simple an clear statement. I came up with my idea on my own. But I'm not surprised if shoogle/Rene Mayrhofer/ Hans Gellersen/ or someone else have come up with something that's equal or similar long before I did. But more importantly, _I have no interest in patenting._ Frankly because I think the patent system is badly broken as it's now. ( If it's broken, Don't use it! Fix it! ^_^ ) But, if *sic* mobile handshaking it's such a bloody god idea, give me credit _if_ credit is warranted. ;) (PS. I'm not capable of developing such software.) PS2. I'd be happy to discuss or converse by email, so don't be shy about hitting the send button if anyone got anything to say. :) Sincerly signing off this thread, Heikki Soerum. From: Al Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:37:42 + Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org As I understand it this part of the thread has wandered OT onto the generalities of public disclosure and its effect on patentability. There has been no suggestion that anyone should knowingly try to patent somebody else's idea. The shake-to-pair video is credited to Rene Mayrhofer and Hans Gellersen at Lancaster University, and doesn't seem related to Shoogle. For all I know Heikki Soerum had the idea independently. On Monday 03 December 2007, Jeff Andros wrote: um, is anyone that's replied on this thread a member of the University of Glasgow team that developed the software(shoogle)? I'm guessing not. it has obviously already been invented, which means snipp ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Just a quick note based on all the patent research i've done: Any disclosure in a public forum, whether limited in distribution or not, is considered public disclosure. As a matter of fact, telling anyone your idea (other than the people who are co-inventors) is considered public disclosure. However, that does NOT preclude you from filing a patent - all it does is limit the amount of time you have to file a patent. Once public disclosure is made, you have 1 year to file an application with the US Patent office. After that, it's considered that you've given up any rights to patent. However, in practical terms it's more difficult to prove original invention once disclosure is made unles you keep a detailed, dated notebook (in ink). On Dec 1, 2007 12:23 PM, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
The reason I said it on a public mailinglist was to ensure that it isnt patentable. Now, someone give me a free gtav2. ;) Heikki Soerum. This is too perfect. What a cool idea - seriously unfortunately now that you've published here is no longer able to be but was worthy of a patenting. Not only could the method of shaking but the timing of shaking could have been the key. Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down - because of the semi-physical connection they would have the same accelerometer readings this couldn't be replicated unless you had someone 'watching' you move them up and down and was copying the movements within the tolerance errors. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Michael, this is (I think) brilliant! We could call it... the handshake (OK, anyone who doesn't know why that's funny, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Quoting GWMobile [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [...] same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. If it wasn't old. Don't know if there are patents on it though. Hopefully not, as those should go the way of the dodo anyway. Not to say the OP couldn't have reinvented it personally (I don't know; if so, good on him, and that would just go to show why patents are bad...) -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
Nope sorry - doesn't work that way. It's been publicly disclosed now. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of GWMobile Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 2:34 AM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: need someone to develop this I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 2:33 pm, Dean Collins wrote: This is too perfect. What a cool idea - seriously unfortunately now that you've published here is no longer able to be but was worthy of a patenting. Not only could the method of shaking but the timing of shaking could have been the key. Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down - because of the semi-physical connection they would have the same accelerometer readings this couldn't be replicated unless you had someone 'watching' you move them up and down and was copying the movements within the tolerance errors. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Michael, this is (I think) brilliant! We could call it... the handshake (OK, anyone who doesn't know why that's funny, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Saturday 01 December 2007 08:34:08 GWMobile wrote: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. You are aware that most mailing lists are archived and indexed by Google, aren't you? By every sane meaning of public, this is public. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
GWMobile writes: I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. IANAL, but my reading is that since the archives are public, it counts as disclosure. The good news is that if somebody *else* tries to patent it in the future, there's really solid prior art! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Near-field comms (was Re: need someone to develop this....)
nfc trial in london http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7117213.stm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Near-field comms (was Re: need someone to develop this....)
exciting stuff, they've had this in japan for a while. i guess security will be the only concern. On 01/12/2007, br [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nfc trial in london http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7117213.stm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Tel: 00447809457487 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.happyjames.co.uk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Heikki Sørum wrote: When were talking about different ways to use accelerometers.. Bob meet's Alice and they both want each others contact information. First Bob and Alice shake their phones in an predetermined password pattern to unlock the bluetooth/zigbe/(whatever-short-range-radio). Then they both shake their phones in rythm to an short tune playing on Alice's phone. The phones then pair with the other phone, exchange simple authkeys and Vcards. Now Bob and Alice has authenticated each others phones and they got each others phone number. Lucky Bob and Alice! On an more serious note, Two such paired bluetooth devices could also exchange an RSA/DSA encryption key to ensure private SMS/MMS/conversations. If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Beware. This is not a new idea. Patents? ;) Btw. i would suggest bashing the phones together. (like a wood block instrument) This will produce uinique paterns which do not depend very much on the resolution of the accelerometers and could easyly picket up by a legacy microphone of any hone without accelerometer. Just my 2 Eurocent ;) PS: Great idea indeed. We need this... PS: I know Eve could hear the sounds of the phone bashing together and play a replay attack. But come on, it is Bluetooth. The only reason Bluetooth is not considered insecure is frequency hopping. The crypro layer is lame. Heikki Sørum wrote: When were talking about different ways to use accelerometers.. Bob meet's Alice and they both want each others contact information. First Bob and Alice shake their phones in an predetermined password pattern to unlock the bluetooth/zigbe/(whatever-short-range-radio). Then they both shake their phones in rythm to an short tune playing on Alice's phone. The phones then pair with the other phone, exchange simple authkeys and Vcards. Now Bob and Alice has authenticated each others phones and they got each others phone number. Lucky Bob and Alice! On an more serious note, Two such paired bluetooth devices could also exchange an RSA/DSA encryption key to ensure private SMS/MMS/conversations. Heikki Soerum. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Near-field comms (was Re: need someone to develop this....)
On Nov 30, 2007 1:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. This is the sort of thing that NFC (near-field communication) was supposed to make possible, except without the shaking... you just bring the phones near enough, or touching, so that the range-limited RF conversation can occur, and you could have instant pairing. And from what I've read, the radio is the same for NFC as for RFID. So a phone equipped with such a radio can be useful for other things too: - the privacy nuts worried about having RFID tags in everything can scan products and detect them - read RFID sensors (some day when such things exist) - scan something in the store and look up the reviews and price comparisons (since they will replace barcodes soon) - use an RFID token (such as a smart card) for security authorization (such as for a web site you are browsing on the phone, or an SSH session) - the phone could emulate an RFID tag (e.g. the phone could act as a security token in lieu of some other smart card) - small-value money transactions. In Japan, I read that NFC phones can already be used to purchase a soda, or pay for subway fare right at the turnstile. Just touch the phone to the active spot on the turnstile and walk through. Maybe the SIM's hardware could be used to execute a secure challenge/response sequence to authenticate the user, and the rest of the transaction is a service to be provided somewhere else. It would be awesome if FIC could include an NFC/RFID radio in some future generation of phone. In the meantime the shake is cool to implement authentication with the existing Neo, but it depends on making the idea popular enough so that pairing with other devices becomes possible. BT headsets probably don't have acceleration sensors so far... but at least for phone-to-phone pairing it sounds like something Nokia might do. Somebody could present the idea at a conference or two and see who else adopts it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. You mean... like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Near-field comms (was Re: need someone to develop this....)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering... I did already suggest NFC in a post some days ago (Hardware addition ideas for (=) GTA03 on Sun Nov 25 19:36:23 CET 2007), but got absolutely no reaction (I suggested multi-SIM capability too), and now I am wondering what was so bad about *my* suggestion... ;-) But I'm glad to see that there are at least two other people who seem to think that this could become an important hardware addition in the future. It's better to be on the forefront of new trends (Nokia already has NFC phones) than just being in the bulk of the followers... Security issues regarding NFC will hopefully be resolved. NFC will be the next big thing. Will it take off in 2010 or 2012 is probably a more accurate question though. Very little hardware at the moment supports it, and yes, while this is of course a chicken and egg situation, nokia/... are probably the sensible people to push this at the moment. It's going to be some time before the nice things that NFC enables become possible. As to 'the hardware is the same as RFID tags' well, no. There are about 6 different fundamental sorts of RFID tags, and perhaps hundreds of 'common' variations. Many of them due to the inherent physics and the tags sensitivity require physically large antennas. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
This is too perfect. What a cool idea - seriously unfortunately now that you've published here is no longer able to be but was worthy of a patenting. Not only could the method of shaking but the timing of shaking could have been the key. Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down - because of the semi-physical connection they would have the same accelerometer readings this couldn't be replicated unless you had someone 'watching' you move them up and down and was copying the movements within the tolerance errors. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Michael, this is (I think) brilliant! We could call it... the handshake (OK, anyone who doesn't know why that's funny, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Michael, this is (I think) brilliant! We could call it... the handshake (OK, anyone who doesn't know why that's funny, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking). I wonder if we could do an Neo-iPhone handshake the same way? I heard something about Apple finally releasing an SDK for the iPhone :-) (Please, no follow-ups to this jibe, except off-list!). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
re: need someone to develop this....
When were talking about different ways to use accelerometers.. Bob meet's Alice and they both want each others contact information. First Bob and Alice shake their phones in an predetermined password pattern to unlock the bluetooth/zigbe/(whatever-short-range-radio). Then they both shake their phones in rythm to an short tune playing on Alice's phone. The phones then pair with the other phone, exchange simple authkeys and Vcards. Now Bob and Alice has authenticated each others phones and they got each others phone number. Lucky Bob and Alice! On an more serious note, Two such paired bluetooth devices could also exchange an RSA/DSA encryption key to ensure private SMS/MMS/conversations. Heikki Soerum. From: flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:03:51 +0100 Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org When i get a phone i wanna try making this :D Michael Shiloh wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Tim Shannon wrote: Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. i bet you can do that in about 3 line of code once the gta02 arrives. Could double as a theft alarm. If motion is detected you have a short period of time in which to enter your secret code, or else it starts screaming. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
WJCarpenter wrote: Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down Hmm, I think I can see what's coming, based on watching many wacky comedies over the years. Things will get switched. Alice will end up with the Neo full of cash while Bob wanders away with the Neo containing two pairs of socks and a cheese sandwich. Hilarity ensues. In the space of one posting it goes from a patentable idea to a sitcom. Michael ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
When i get a phone i wanna try making this :D Michael Shiloh wrote: Jay Vaughan wrote: On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Tim Shannon wrote: Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. i bet you can do that in about 3 line of code once the gta02 arrives. Could double as a theft alarm. If motion is detected you have a short period of time in which to enter your secret code, or else it starts screaming. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down Hmm, I think I can see what's coming, based on watching many wacky comedies over the years. Things will get switched. Alice will end up with the Neo full of cash while Bob wanders away with the Neo containing two pairs of socks and a cheese sandwich. Hilarity ensues. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
I don't think discussing this here would be considered an open disclosure. Talking on a finite list or limited membership with moderation and thus controlled membership is not necessarily open disclosure and not the same as a public printing therefore I think it would still be patentable. On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 2:33 pm, Dean Collins wrote: This is too perfect. What a cool idea - seriously unfortunately now that you've published here is no longer able to be but was worthy of a patenting. Not only could the method of shaking but the timing of shaking could have been the key. Eg hold two devices next to each other and shake them up and down - because of the semi-physical connection they would have the same accelerometer readings this couldn't be replicated unless you had someone 'watching' you move them up and down and was copying the movements within the tolerance errors. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Darwin Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:35 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: need someone to develop this Michael, this is (I think) brilliant! We could call it... the handshake (OK, anyone who doesn't know why that's funny, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles. www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Robin Paulson wrote: it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. How much pot was involved in the idea? I can't wait to get my Neo. When exactly is february? timbo ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. How much pot was involved in the idea? probably a lot. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On 30/11/2007, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ...and i was wondering what they would be good for. feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? well .. consider the openmoko/neo1973 device more of a re- configurable user interface 'pad', than a cell phone. a poor (but wise) mans optimus maximus .. sort of a 'mini one' with a cell phone in it, so its .. you know .. actually useful as a user interface device. its all about how it feels, and what it does when you touch it. if i could, i'd use the neo instead of my logitech mouse. now, on stage, if its in my pocket, i'd love to be able to shake it when it buzzes, and hold it still when it shrills, and if only for a few lines of code, there would be music. or not ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. On Nov 29, 2007 1:15 PM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feedback for controlling a live music sequencer while on stage in front of 10's of thousands of people .. original sloshing indicator added to the wiki wish list. Jay, would you care to elaborate on your idea, sounds interesting? well .. consider the openmoko/neo1973 device more of a re- configurable user interface 'pad', than a cell phone. a poor (but wise) mans optimus maximus .. sort of a 'mini one' with a cell phone in it, so its .. you know .. actually useful as a user interface device. its all about how it feels, and what it does when you touch it. if i could, i'd use the neo instead of my logitech mouse. now, on stage, if its in my pocket, i'd love to be able to shake it when it buzzes, and hold it still when it shrills, and if only for a few lines of code, there would be music. or not ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Tim Shannon wrote: Personally, I'd like to see it blink on and off, and scream when you shook, then I could show my friends my possessed linux phone. i bet you can do that in about 3 line of code once the gta02 arrives. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
need someone to develop this....
ok, it's pointless, stupid and probably a waste of resources, but this has to be developed by somebody: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/28/1342248 it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
Lol - I love it. Fantastic. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:18 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: need someone to develop this ok, it's pointless, stupid and probably a waste of resources, but this has to be developed by somebody: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/28/1342248 it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: need someone to develop this....
+1 that would be sweet On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:35:27 -0500, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lol - I love it. Fantastic. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:18 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: need someone to develop this ok, it's pointless, stupid and probably a waste of resources, but this has to be developed by somebody: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/28/1342248 it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
Oh yes. Someone, please do this. I'll support in any way I can. Michael Robin Paulson wrote: ok, it's pointless, stupid and probably a waste of resources, but this has to be developed by somebody: http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/28/1342248 it's a phone app that reports the remaining battery life, when shaken, by making sloshing sounds - the more battery, the more 'full' it sounds what a wonderfully inventive use of accelerometers ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
