Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Sean Anderson]

> The biggest error that some people do is that they thing Openmoko == 
> Iphone: FALSE
I think comparisons with the iPhone are inevitable and, when discussing
the consumer market, absolutely justified. Speaking to someone that
isn't into FOSS, you might start by saying "well, it's a small phone
form factor, like a PDA - but the display takes up most of the front.
You can phone people, text, check your email, it has an on-screen
keyboard--""--Like an iPhone?". What's the distinction, the philosophy
behind the operating system? Hardly visible to the average customer.

Whether or not the Moko came first, who had the idea first, who began
working on it first, isn't really relevant. The iPhone is a smartphone
carrying out many of the same functions as the Moko, and is the product
everyone has heard of.

For the average user, when the Moko is released consumer-ready, say,
early next year - it will probably be entirely justified for the
consumer to respond - but why not just buy a third gen iphone? or why
not buy some of the competition that O2, Sony, Nokia and the rest will
probably produce in the next few months? Nokia have already produced
some fantastic Linux-based devices with the N800 and N810. The only
thing they don't do is receive phonecalls!

Sean.


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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano]

Stephen Pape ha scritto:
My intention wasn't a comparison of the iPhone to the Neo. I do run 
Linux at home and at my office for our servers, I don't even dual boot 
with Windows anymore because I don't see any reason to use it.  I'm 
well aware of the differences. All I was remarking on is that the 
iPhone is probably the "next best thing", especially if they offer a SDK.


The problem I have with this project is that for a long time we were 
without any information or updates. For quite a while, communication 
was dead. The big example I already gave, people were expecting the 
phone to come out in October, even well into the month. That shouldn't 
happen. If it's going to be delayed, fine, but don't go past your 
deadline and THEN tell people its going to be months later. Even more 
strange is that we thought we were so close, within the month, yet 
here we are 6 months later, with no idea when it will be released.


Now, lately it seems we're getting some updates, but I still get a 
general sense of confusion about the state of the project when I read 
through emails on the list. We still don't really have any goal date, 
as far as I know.


My concerns don't really have anything to do with the iPhone directly. 
I'm not questioning which will be a better choice for me, but again, 
it's really the only comparable phone that I see available.
This discussion sometimes appear and then disapper to come back again 
under different subject.
So to get what you may know from the ml (i read this one and a few other 
from openmoko but the info usually are here and i'm not one of "the guys"):


Neo is in PVT stage
   this means that it's at the last stages to test the mass production

Neo software is in prealpha/alpha/beta:
   this means that if you need a cell/pda for the day to day use and if 
you need to rely on it NOW you can get something different


Neo isn't ready, no date given
   regard this point you can say everything you want, the guys from 
openmoko / FIC gave some dates some time ago, they passed without the 
freerunner was ready due to some design problem, this is a plus for us, 
they simply can say "we are working on a linux open phone" and when they 
are ready say "ok, we got it working" but they choose the open way, 
communicating with the community, updating us on the state of the phone, 
discussing with us about hints or what to do, can you see something 
similar with any company? Personally not so i realy appreciate this. The 
freerunner is late on the dates that were given by FIC, this is not a 
problem, i'm still waiting for it. An example is the iphone it's 
development was secret, there were only some rumors about it, here you 
can see the progress and the problems!


when the neo wil come out it will be ready
   WRONG!! the HARDWARE will be ready but the software will be usable i 
hope but won't be ready, you could also use the qtopia images, may be 
also android when it will be ready, it's up to you


Neo is closed due to some NDAs
   well there are some problems regarding some NDAs (glamo if i'm not 
wrong) but "the guys" are working on it but the freerunner is the most 
open phone you can get now (neo 1973 and the freerunner when it will be out)



may be i've forgot something but the latest infos are here i suppose

Bye!

Pietro


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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Stephen Pape]

My intention wasn't a comparison of the iPhone to the Neo. I do run Linux at
home and at my office for our servers, I don't even dual boot with Windows
anymore because I don't see any reason to use it.  I'm well aware of the
differences. All I was remarking on is that the iPhone is probably the "next
best thing", especially if they offer a SDK.

The problem I have with this project is that for a long time we were without
any information or updates. For quite a while, communication was dead. The
big example I already gave, people were expecting the phone to come out in
October, even well into the month. That shouldn't happen. If it's going to
be delayed, fine, but don't go past your deadline and THEN tell people its
going to be months later. Even more strange is that we thought we were so
close, within the month, yet here we are 6 months later, with no idea when
it will be released.

Now, lately it seems we're getting some updates, but I still get a general
sense of confusion about the state of the project when I read through emails
on the list. We still don't really have any goal date, as far as I know.

My concerns don't really have anything to do with the iPhone directly. I'm
not questioning which will be a better choice for me, but again, it's really
the only comparable phone that I see available.



On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I have a question:
>
> who never wrote an email like this when the iphone project was in
> progress?
>
> Answer: No one.
>
> Why? Because the Apple keep all the project under a very strict secret
> until all was ready. No one know about it and when it went out all was happy
> to have a customer ready phone. So no one had to cry because the Iphone had
> delay because no one knew about it.
>
> Openmoko decided to took another decision: it decided to share the develop
> process with the comunity: this mean that before to be ready for production
> it will be released in different preview only version.
>
> Then you have to choose: you 'd like to stay under a bad "democracy" or in
> a good "monarchy"? you are free to choose. If you want a democracy this are
> the issue you will meet: developer only version, bug that will be corrected
> only on time,  etc. etc.
>
> I you like more a monarchy buy an Iphone: it will run soon, is already in
> production, has some complete application, and has a very big firm that
> support it.
>
> The biggest error that some people do is that they thing Openmoko ==
> Iphone: FALSE
>
> Are two different devices, with two different target. In the same way how
> Linux != Windows
> And they have different potentiality: freedom has a cost :)
>
> So before to buy a freerunner, please think well on what you need. May be
> you need something else, or is better you will buy in the future. But if you
> decide to buy, please keep in mind which are the objective of what you buy.
>
> Best regards
>
>
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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Michele Renda]

I have a question:

who never wrote an email like this when the iphone project was in progress?

Answer: No one.

Why? Because the Apple keep all the project under a very strict secret 
until all was ready. No one know about it and when it went out all was 
happy to have a customer ready phone. So no one had to cry because the 
Iphone had delay because no one knew about it.


Openmoko decided to took another decision: it decided to share the 
develop process with the comunity: this mean that before to be ready for 
production it will be released in different preview only version.


Then you have to choose: you 'd like to stay under a bad "democracy" or 
in a good "monarchy"? you are free to choose. If you want a democracy 
this are the issue you will meet: developer only version, bug that will 
be corrected only on time,  etc. etc.


I you like more a monarchy buy an Iphone: it will run soon, is already 
in production, has some complete application, and has a very big firm 
that support it.


The biggest error that some people do is that they thing Openmoko == 
Iphone: FALSE


Are two different devices, with two different target. In the same way 
how Linux != Windows

And they have different potentiality: freedom has a cost :)

So before to buy a freerunner, please think well on what you need. May 
be you need something else, or is better you will buy in the future. But 
if you decide to buy, please keep in mind which are the objective of 
what you buy.


Best regards

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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Stephen Pape]

I've been reading along for quite a while now and unfortunately I'm starting
to agree with posts like this.

For example, here's part of an email dated 10/23/2007:


> As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for
> this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement
> of some kind, since up to now they've been saying "October" and we're
> 3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or
> later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering
> what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us
> posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense
> like this.
>
> - Wolfmane


This was a problem back in October 2007! Now we're in to April 2008? And how
do we go from expecting it "this month" to 6 months later? That's quite a
delay, and still with no release date in sight. I was originally holding off
on my cell phone plan until October.  People kept saying to buy a cheap sim
phone as a temporary phone...and I did...but this has been a very long time
for being "temporary". My current phone has all kinds of problems with
freezing and other annoyances. I have kept holding out for the Neo...but now
the iPhone has an SDK...and honestly I've seriously been considering it. Of
course, I'd really much rather have a completely open phone, but I'm pretty
pessimistic about it being available anytime soon.

I am a programmer, I don't expect to have the fully functional "consumer
grade" version, however I didn't want to spend money on the "beta" hardware
with the real phone right around the corner, either.  I believe in the idea
of open source, and I'm more than willing to spend a little more money for
an open phone.

I guess things have been better lately, but for a while everyone felt like
we were in the dark entirely. Now we know the phone's being worked on but we
still don't have much of an idea about when it'll be out. I'm not giving in
to the iPhone yet, I'm a pretty patient person, and I love the concept here.
I just wanted to add my thoughts and note that I can relate to people who
are feeling frustrated.


On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Sean Anderson <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think many people are anxious to know when the Neo FreeRunner will
> actually be released. I know of many people that are quite eager to buy
> one; if it won't be ready till December, say so. Stop keeping hundreds
> of people waiting with bated breath for a device that seems to be be
> unlikely to ever see the light of day in any stable form. Be open, give
> the community more detailed information; when is it likely to be
> released, why and why not?
>
> The OpenMoko project, as it appears to others, is a failure of the open
> source model rather than the visible example of the success of open
> development that it rightly should be.
>
> I've been expecting the opportunity to buy a Neo for over six months
> now, and it seems to be that the only way in which to obtain a small
> form-factor smartphone is to pop into the cathedral and buy an iPhone.
>
> Sean.
>
> So why is it called the Neo 1973? I get the "neo" part, that means new,
> but what's significant of 1973?
> > That was the original release date!
>
>
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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Sean Anderson]

> Sometimes the hardest thing to answer is "I don't know". My personal
> opinion here is that "I don't know" is probably the best answer there
> is. As a user, I want to know EXACTLY when I can expect my next dose
> of sexiness in hardware form. As someone who supports and understands
> business, saying "Freerunner will be here in September" is suicide IF
> there are issues discovered in August. Openmoko can't give you a
> release date because giving a release date depends on the schedule
> being followed. Hardware defects, supplier issues, vendor commitments
> being met, et cetera.
> 
> I'd settle at this point, and really kind of want a "Assuming nothing
> delays us..." answer... But even then the pragmatist in me cringes at
> that. No matter how many disclaimers are attached to it, ANY statement
> by Openmoko will be Gospel Truth to SOME people and those people's
> disappointment may be very REAL losses of sales. The last official
> answer that was given is "April... Maybe." It's still April, so
> there's time to correct that.
> >
> >  The OpenMoko project, as it appears to others, is a failure of the open
> >  source model rather than the visible example of the success of open
> >  development that it rightly should be.
> 
> Openmoko has given continuous updates as the information is available
> to them. That information changes daily, just live source code, as
> various issues are discovered. You speak as if you've been deprived of
> some natural right... Openmoko has promised that they'll try to be as
> open as possible and get you a consumer ready device as soon as they
> can. Until then, you've got a developer ready device, and that was
> made VERY clear when you clicked "Buy" and input your payment
> information.
Actually, this reply answers all my questions, and takes care of a few
misconceptions. It seems to have been understood by me, and people I've
discussed the phone with, that the GTA02 was going to be a
consumer-ready product. 

When i read an interview in LinuxJournal with Sean Moss-Pultz last
summer I thought "great, well at the very least I'll be able to get it
for Christmas". Clearly this was a misunderstanding, and perhaps
something and LJ and other publicists of the Moko, or OpenMoko
themselves, have not been doing quite enough to state clearly is that
the GTA02 is not going to be a consumer-ready release, and that
potential buyers should not be expecting the phone any time soon. 

But if the Moko is not going to be released to the mass market even
before possibly even the beginning of next year, this raises another
question. Will it not be a case that the Moko will be just another
device in a stream of hardware that is being produced at the moment in
an attempt to emulate the success of the iPhone?

> >  I've been expecting the opportunity to buy a Neo for over six months
> >  now, and it seems to be that the only way in which to obtain a small
> >  form-factor smartphone is to pop into the cathedral and buy an iPhone.
> 
> I bought my Neo in January. The opportunity ot buy a Neo existed less
> than two months ago. For some reason you didn't because (I'm
> presuming) it didn't meet your needs at the time. It really looks to
> me that this is an issue of misplaces expectations than anything else.
> Developers have been clamoring for a developer preview of Freerunner,
> which has been pushed back and back. Openmoko has NEVER promised a
> release date for a CONSUMER READY Freerunner, ONLY the developer
> previews.
> 
Point taken. I do still need an operational phone... It was my
impression that the GTA02 would be roughly equivalent to a release
candidate of software and any bugs would be ironed out...

> >  So why is it called the Neo 1973? I get the "neo" part, that means new,
> >  but what's significant of 1973?
> 
> 1973 was the year the mobile phone was invented.
> 
> >  > That was the original release date!
It was a joke. Possibly in bad taste following the acerbic email it was
attached to, but nonetheless still a joke :)

Sean.


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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Kevin Dean]

On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:41 PM, Sean Anderson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think many people are anxious to know when the Neo FreeRunner will
>  actually be released. I know of many people that are quite eager to buy
>  one; if it won't be ready till December, say so. Stop keeping hundreds
>  of people waiting with bated breath for a device that seems to be be
>  unlikely to ever see the light of day in any stable form. Be open, give
>  the community more detailed information; when is it likely to be
>  released, why and why not?

Sometimes the hardest thing to answer is "I don't know". My personal
opinion here is that "I don't know" is probably the best answer there
is. As a user, I want to know EXACTLY when I can expect my next dose
of sexiness in hardware form. As someone who supports and understands
business, saying "Freerunner will be here in September" is suicide IF
there are issues discovered in August. Openmoko can't give you a
release date because giving a release date depends on the schedule
being followed. Hardware defects, supplier issues, vendor commitments
being met, et cetera.

I'd settle at this point, and really kind of want a "Assuming nothing
delays us..." answer... But even then the pragmatist in me cringes at
that. No matter how many disclaimers are attached to it, ANY statement
by Openmoko will be Gospel Truth to SOME people and those people's
disappointment may be very REAL losses of sales. The last official
answer that was given is "April... Maybe." It's still April, so
there's time to correct that.


>
>  The OpenMoko project, as it appears to others, is a failure of the open
>  source model rather than the visible example of the success of open
>  development that it rightly should be.

Openmoko has given continuous updates as the information is available
to them. That information changes daily, just live source code, as
various issues are discovered. You speak as if you've been deprived of
some natural right... Openmoko has promised that they'll try to be as
open as possible and get you a consumer ready device as soon as they
can. Until then, you've got a developer ready device, and that was
made VERY clear when you clicked "Buy" and input your payment
information.


>
>  I've been expecting the opportunity to buy a Neo for over six months
>  now, and it seems to be that the only way in which to obtain a small
>  form-factor smartphone is to pop into the cathedral and buy an iPhone.

I bought my Neo in January. The opportunity ot buy a Neo existed less
than two months ago. For some reason you didn't because (I'm
presuming) it didn't meet your needs at the time. It really looks to
me that this is an issue of misplaces expectations than anything else.
Developers have been clamoring for a developer preview of Freerunner,
which has been pushed back and back. Openmoko has NEVER promised a
release date for a CONSUMER READY Freerunner, ONLY the developer
previews.

>
>  Sean.
>
>  So why is it called the Neo 1973? I get the "neo" part, that means new,
>  but what's significant of 1973?

1973 was the year the mobile phone was invented.

>  > That was the original release date!
>
>
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Re: GTA02 Release Date

[Michael T. Dean]

On 04/06/2008 08:41 PM, Sean Anderson wrote:
> I think many people are anxious to know when the Neo FreeRunner will
> actually be released. I know of many people that are quite eager to buy
> one; if it won't be ready till December, say so. Stop keeping hundreds
> of people waiting with bated breath for a device that seems to be be
> unlikely to ever see the light of day in any stable form. Be open, give
> the community more detailed information; when is it likely to be
> released, why and why not?
>
> The OpenMoko project, as it appears to others, is a failure of the open
> source model rather than the visible example of the success of open
> development that it rightly should be. 
>
> I've been expecting the opportunity to buy a Neo for over six months
> now, and it seems to be that the only way in which to obtain a small
> form-factor smartphone is to pop into the cathedral and buy an iPhone.

Says the guy who doesn't read his email.  I.e. "Product Update" sent 1
hour and 57 minutes before the above message and on the same list
(though to interpret its meaning, one also needs to have read previous
messages on the list or to spend some time looking through an archive).

Mike


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GTA02 Release Date

[Sean Anderson]

I think many people are anxious to know when the Neo FreeRunner will
actually be released. I know of many people that are quite eager to buy
one; if it won't be ready till December, say so. Stop keeping hundreds
of people waiting with bated breath for a device that seems to be be
unlikely to ever see the light of day in any stable form. Be open, give
the community more detailed information; when is it likely to be
released, why and why not?

The OpenMoko project, as it appears to others, is a failure of the open
source model rather than the visible example of the success of open
development that it rightly should be. 

I've been expecting the opportunity to buy a Neo for over six months
now, and it seems to be that the only way in which to obtain a small
form-factor smartphone is to pop into the cathedral and buy an iPhone.

Sean.

So why is it called the Neo 1973? I get the "neo" part, that means new,
but what's significant of 1973?
> That was the original release date!


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Re: Release date of GTA02

[Edwin Lock]

No, it's not known yet when the GTA-02 will be available, but it looks like
december/january. At least that's what the openmoko team is trying if I
believe rightly?
And no, it can't be preordered yet.
Hope it will be available soon :)
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Release date of GTA02

[Thomas Drewermann]

Hi to all,

 

Does anyone know when the GTA02-Model will be released?

Can it be ordered or preordered anywhere at the moment?

 

Thanks.

 

BR

Thomas

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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Jonathon Suggs]

I'll admit I was one who "grumbled" in the past.  My complaint was that
there was good flow of information when things were on track (which was
appreciated), but as soon as things slipped it was complete and utter
silence (hence most of the "angry emails", not the actual slippage).

That said, posts like this are exactly what I wanted, and thank you very
much for taking the time to respond.  I can't speak for anyone but
myself, but I would much prefer hearing SOMETHING (whether it be delays
or not).  I honestly don't get that hung up on "targeted" release dates
that much...I would just like to know about the overall progress
(exactly like your email addressed).  However, I did "grumble" and still
think it is/was bad business practices when they posted release dates,
missed them (which is fine) BUT DID NOT SAY ANYTHING.

So again, thanks Michael.  We (or at least I) very much appreciate this
type of information.  It doesn't have to come that often, but a quick
blurb like this will go a LONG way in reducing the "grumbling" about
lack of information.

-Jonathon


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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[andutt]

Hello Michael

A fair and good answer, i feel that much good information have come up to
the surface under the last days posts, besides the flame ones. We now have
an exact progress report, status on the device and in which timeframe its
planned to be released/shipped in the best case.

Maybe a link to this information and the compare of the GTA01 vrs GTA02 can
be created for easy access in the main link menu or in the top of the wiki
that are easy to spot would be a good idea. Also where you or others can
update the progress of the device? I think that would decrease guestions
regarding this matter in the future.

Thanx!

/Andreas

On 10/25/07, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Andreas, and everyone else,
>
> Andreas writes:
> > Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community
> > want is just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.
>
> Many years ago, I had a running joke with a co-worker. Every time
> someone said "just" we would role our eyes at each other and repeat the
> sentence, emphasizing the word "just".
>
> As others here have explained, we are involving the community in the
> process of designing, manufacturing, and distributing in a way that is
> simply not done. We are experimenting and learning as we go along. There
> are no models for this sort of project, no experts to turn to to ask
> "how is this done".
>
> It seems so simple, but in fact it is extremely complicated.
>
> If you look at the history of this mailing list, you will see that Sean,
> Harald, and others started off being very generous with their
> information, and then having to spend a tremendous amount of energy
> calming angry readers when deadlines were missed. As you continue to
> study the history of this mailing list, you will notice an increasing
> level of frustration in all parties.
>
> This is one reason I was brought in. Having come from the community, I
> hopefully represent the community well, but now in the company, I
> hopefully can balance being in both worlds.
>
> My goal is not to get as frustrated as Sean or Harald or the others who
> have gone before me. Perhaps since I'm in the middle, I'm supposed to
> get half as frustrated :-)
>
> In fact this is very complicated. Since everyone in OpenMoko knows that
> I am the channel to the community, I suspect there is a certain
> reluctance to being completely open with me. Believe me, I have as hard
> a time getting updates from OpenMoko people as you have getting it from
> me. (Again, since I'm in the middle, perhaps this is exactly as it
> should be.) On the other hand, the community knows that I know more than
> they do, and don't understand why I can't share all this information.
>
> So to answer your question, Andreas: We can not give the community the
> date for when the device is planned to ship, because we do not have such
> a date.
>
> What we have is a plan that gets increasingly vague as it moves into the
> future.
>
> What I know for sure:
>
> We, and Harald in particular, are quite happy with GTA02v3.
>
> GTA02v4 has been made and should be showing up on Harald's desk any day
> now. True, I said this a couple of days ago, and I have not yet received
> any confirmation that the device has shown up on his desk, so I must
> presume it has not yet.
>
> Once GTA02v4 shows up on Harald's desk, there will follow a period of
> very careful inspection and testing. Only when there is a high level of
> confidence will we move forward.
>
> How long will this take? We don't know. It depends on what we find.
>
> For example, remember that the drivers aren't all finished. This means
> that the testing will sometimes be delayed pending drivers, and other
> times will be tested with test software that (we hope) is very similar
> to the drivers, but whether it is sufficiently similar we won't know
> until the driver is finished. So someone might need to make the decision
> of whether to approve of the subsystem under test after having been
> verified by the test software, or whether to wait for the driver itself.
> Obviously such a decision depends on how confident they are in the test
> software, and how much longer the "real" driver is expected to take, and
> how risky it is to find a flaw in this subsystem after say 1000 units
> have been sent out to customers.
>
> Quite a big responsibility. If I were in their shoes, I would be very
> tempted to wait for the driver. Even though the community is anxious to
> get the hardware, even if the software isn't finished.
>
> As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far
> from perfect, but we are trying.
>
> My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality
> of information that I bring from the company to you.
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
>
> andutt wrote:
> > Hi Steven
> >
> > Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want
> > is just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.
> >
> > /Andreas U
> >

Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Gabriel Ambuehl]

On Thursday 25 October 2007 22:07:52 Michael Shiloh wrote:
> As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far
> from perfect, but we are trying.
>
> My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality
> of information that I bring from the company to you.


This is a (nearly) perfect explanation of what's going on. Store it some place 
safe, you'll need it again. If not with GTA02 revision then surely with 
GTA03!


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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Michael Shiloh]

Hello Andreas, and everyone else,

Andreas writes:
> Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community
> want is just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.

Many years ago, I had a running joke with a co-worker. Every time 
someone said "just" we would role our eyes at each other and repeat the 
sentence, emphasizing the word "just".


As others here have explained, we are involving the community in the 
process of designing, manufacturing, and distributing in a way that is 
simply not done. We are experimenting and learning as we go along. There 
are no models for this sort of project, no experts to turn to to ask 
"how is this done".


It seems so simple, but in fact it is extremely complicated.

If you look at the history of this mailing list, you will see that Sean, 
Harald, and others started off being very generous with their 
information, and then having to spend a tremendous amount of energy 
calming angry readers when deadlines were missed. As you continue to 
study the history of this mailing list, you will notice an increasing 
level of frustration in all parties.


This is one reason I was brought in. Having come from the community, I 
hopefully represent the community well, but now in the company, I 
hopefully can balance being in both worlds.


My goal is not to get as frustrated as Sean or Harald or the others who 
have gone before me. Perhaps since I'm in the middle, I'm supposed to 
get half as frustrated :-)


In fact this is very complicated. Since everyone in OpenMoko knows that 
I am the channel to the community, I suspect there is a certain 
reluctance to being completely open with me. Believe me, I have as hard 
a time getting updates from OpenMoko people as you have getting it from 
me. (Again, since I'm in the middle, perhaps this is exactly as it 
should be.) On the other hand, the community knows that I know more than 
they do, and don't understand why I can't share all this information.


So to answer your question, Andreas: We can not give the community the 
date for when the device is planned to ship, because we do not have such 
a date.


What we have is a plan that gets increasingly vague as it moves into the 
future.


What I know for sure:

We, and Harald in particular, are quite happy with GTA02v3.

GTA02v4 has been made and should be showing up on Harald's desk any day 
now. True, I said this a couple of days ago, and I have not yet received 
any confirmation that the device has shown up on his desk, so I must 
presume it has not yet.


Once GTA02v4 shows up on Harald's desk, there will follow a period of 
very careful inspection and testing. Only when there is a high level of 
confidence will we move forward.


How long will this take? We don't know. It depends on what we find.

For example, remember that the drivers aren't all finished. This means 
that the testing will sometimes be delayed pending drivers, and other 
times will be tested with test software that (we hope) is very similar 
to the drivers, but whether it is sufficiently similar we won't know 
until the driver is finished. So someone might need to make the decision 
of whether to approve of the subsystem under test after having been 
verified by the test software, or whether to wait for the driver itself. 
Obviously such a decision depends on how confident they are in the test 
software, and how much longer the "real" driver is expected to take, and 
how risky it is to find a flaw in this subsystem after say 1000 units 
have been sent out to customers.


Quite a big responsibility. If I were in their shoes, I would be very 
tempted to wait for the driver. Even though the community is anxious to 
get the hardware, even if the software isn't finished.


As others have said so eloquently, we are doing our best. We are far 
from perfect, but we are trying.


My personal goal is to continue improving both the quantity and quality 
of information that I bring from the company to you.


Regards,
Michael


andutt wrote:

Hi Steven

Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want 
is just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.


/Andreas U

On 10/24/07, *Steven *** <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community
member.  Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if
they're missed.

We all want the GTA02 ASAP.  But we also want the hardware to be in
perfect working order.  If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance
of issues being found after it's been delivered.  We don't want
that.  So, let's all just be a little patient here.

-Steven

On 10/24/07, *Andreas Utterberg* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Thanx...

Thats the post i have been waiting on

/Andreas


On 10/24/07, *Mark* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Since no one 

Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Frans Grotepass]

On Thursday 25 October 2007, andutt wrote:
> Hi Steven
>
> Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is
> just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.

The problem with that is that a company feels pressurised to release something 
that can't meet the expectations that were planned. Most businesses are 
rather quiet about planned releases. That is not without reason.


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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[andutt]

Hi Steven

Thats no problem, i can be very patient. I think what the community want is
just a date, when the device is "planned" to be shipped.

/Andreas U

On 10/24/07, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community member.
> Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if they're missed.
>
> We all want the GTA02 ASAP.  But we also want the hardware to be in
> perfect working order.  If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance of
> issues being found after it's been delivered.  We don't want that.  So,
> let's all just be a little patient here.
>
> -Steven
>
> On 10/24/07, Andreas Utterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Thanx...
> >
> > Thats the post i have been waiting on
> >
> > /Andreas
> >
> > On 10/24/07, Mark < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm
> > > pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information:
> > >
> > >
> > > Estimated time line
> > > * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized.
> > > * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed.
> > > * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized.
> > > * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified
> > > developers.
> > > * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers.
> > > * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume
> > > * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale
> > > * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not
> > > expect anything until well after the New Year.
> > >
> > > Wolfmane
> > >
> > > ___
> > > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andreas Utterberg
> > Thundera AB
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Michael Shiloh]

Indeed I did, but I should take it one step further: If any of you spot 
a place in the wiki which mentions October, please replace it with November


Even better, add in parenthesis (As of 24 October 2007: GTA02v3 
currently being evaluated; GTA02v4 evaluation to start any day)


Michael



Jeff Andros wrote:
just making sure this pops up on Michael's email, he said to send him 
any place in the wiki that it says october


On 10/23/07, *ian douglas* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
wrote:

Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate of
when the GTA02 will be available :o)

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
still says October 2007 for the GTA02


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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Steven **]

Note that that is an estimated timeline created by a community member.
Don't take those dates as gospel and then get upset if they're missed.

We all want the GTA02 ASAP.  But we also want the hardware to be in perfect
working order.  If it's rushed, there's a much larger chance of issues being
found after it's been delivered.  We don't want that.  So, let's all just be
a little patient here.

-Steven

On 10/24/07, Andreas Utterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanx...
>
> Thats the post i have been waiting on
>
> /Andreas
>
> On 10/24/07, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm
> > pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information:
> >
> > Estimated time line
> > * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized.
> > * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed.
> > * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized.
> > * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified
> > developers.
> > * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers.
> > * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume
> > * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale
> > * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service.
> >
> >
> > However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not
> > expect anything until well after the New Year.
> >
> > Wolfmane
> >
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Utterberg
> Thundera AB
> ___
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>
>
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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Andreas Utterberg]

Thanx Michael

I apprichiate the answer, im sitting on needles and pins here, me and a few
other friends, and we dont know if we shall order the current device on sale
since we can be missing importent upgrade specs or fundamental support in
the new hardware. As i read in some other post, its importent to keep the
community posted since many possible contributers maybe ware waiting for the
GTA02, but can think of buying the current Neo if it takes to long to get
the GTA02 to the market.

Im one of them..

The latest i have seen is the 20:e of dec which is to long for me, so im
buying the current neo for sale. Hopefully im not missing to much in a spec
point of view.

/Andreas

On 10/23/07, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Andreas Utterberg wrote:
> > Yes im sorry, i meant the GTA02 :-) and by release date i  mean when its
> > available for ordering.
> > I realy want to have a neo, but want to wait for the 02 since i have
> > heard something about nov-dec? is that correct?
>
> Hello Andreas,
>
> You are partially correct, we are aiming for November, but the truth is
> we can't tell exactly when it will be available for ordering because we
> don't know what unexpected surprises we'll run in to.
>
> Right now we're pretty happy with the third revision of GTA02 (GTA02v3).
> We started the forth revision already and we should be our first units
> of GTA02v4 so that we can start evaluating them any day now.
>
> But as to exact dates, we can not predict that.
>
> Michael
>
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



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Thundera AB
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Re: Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Andreas Utterberg]

Thanx...

Thats the post i have been waiting on

/Andreas

On 10/24/07, Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm
> pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information:
>
> Estimated time line
> * Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized.
> * Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed.
> * Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized.
> * Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified
> developers.
> * Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers.
> * Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume
> * Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale
> * Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service.
>
>
> However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not
> expect anything until well after the New Year.
>
> Wolfmane
>
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>



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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Andreas Utterberg]

Ok then, just update the wiki and close the mailinglist! RTFM is never a
good answer in a community. I have already read that but no shipping date is
specified what i could find, just posting to and from users that "belives",
"guessing" or "have heard", someone must know!?.

And about the specs, users that have used the current Neo maybe can give
some input if the GTA02 ar worth waiting for in a specs point of view.


On 10/23/07, Sébastien Lorquet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> sometimes "RTFM" is a good answer...
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29
>
>
> * 802.11 b/g WiFi
> * Samsung 2442 SoC
> * SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator
> * 2 3D Accelerometers
> * 256MB Flash
> * 1700mAh Battery
> * Faster CPU - S3C2442/400
> * LEDs illuminating the two buttons.
>
>
> 2007/10/23, Andreas Utterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > Yes im sorry, i meant the GTA02 :-) and by release date i  mean when its
> > available for ordering.
> > I realy want to have a neo, but want to wait for the 02 since i have
> > heard something about nov-dec? is that correct?
> >
> > Is it big differences in specs and looks of the GTA02 and the now
> > available neo?
> >
> > /Andreas  U
> >
> > On 10/22/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Community
> > >
> > > Hi, welcome!
> > >
> > > > When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone
> > >
> > > Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.
> > >
> > > And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?
> > >
> > > a) the first announcement that you can order
> > > b) the first device did leave the production line
> > > c) the first real shipment has started
> > > d) the first owner has it in his hands?
> > >
> > > -- hns
> > >
> > > ___
> > > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andreas Utterberg
> > Thundera AB
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮)
> Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007
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>
>


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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Richard Reichenbacher]

Mark wrote:

I have been scouring the site all along, but the last time I checked
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 that timeline information was NOT
there. Apparently I've been paying a lot more attention than you...

Wolfmane

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Wait, I'm confused here now.  If I knew about this page and about the 
update, then how am I the one not paying attention.  If I know 
information you don't, usually that's an indicator that you're not 
paying attention.


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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Eric Johnson]

It seems some community responsibility is in order.  Being an open source
project, it's important that positive and respectful lines of communication
remain open.  Those members who are "close to the metal", so to speak, have
an obligation to send proper communications out via the lists (or
otherwise).  Those members who are highly interested in project events and
status have an obligation to remain as educated as possible and have a
responsibility to fix any inconsistencies on the Wiki they find.  By its
very nature, a Wiki is only as good as the community supporting it.  As
well, the Wiki is, in fact, versioned, so rolling erroneous entries back is
trivial.

On 10/23/07, Marco Barreno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 12:01:41PM -0700, Jeff Andros wrote:
> > just making sure this pops up on Michael's email, he said to send him
> any
> > place in the wiki that it says october
>
> I just did a search for "october" on the wiki.  Looking only at the
> little snippets that show up with search results, these pages seem to
> need updating
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications
> 10: ...e in March, 1st phase is early July. 2nd phase is October... when
> we are ready for mass market appeal.}}
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware
> 165: ... phase 2 Neo1973, currently slated for release in October 2007.
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone
> 2: ...rket.22.29|GTA02]]-revision that is announced for October 2007. For
> the earlier Neo1973 revision see [[IPho...
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
> 11: |October 2007 (Phase0, unconfirmed)
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison/it
> 11: |October 2007
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/AR6K
> 1: ...o be the final WiFi modules for the device in the October release
> according to [[Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28G...
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone/fr
> 2: ...rket.22.29|GTA02]]-revision that is announced for October 2007. For
> the earlier Neo1973 revision see [[IPho...
> 92: |Vente au détail: October 2007
>
> This is just what I saw on the first page of results, not including
> ones that are obviously user comments.
>
> Marco
>
>
>
> >
> > On 10/23/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate
> of
> > > when the GTA02 will be available :o)
> > >
> > >
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
> > > still says October 2007 for the GTA02
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff
> > O|||O
>
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> --
> "The man who strikes first admits that his ideas have given out."
> - Chinese proverb
>
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Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Mark]

Richard Reichenbacher richard5 at email.arizona.edu
Wed Oct 24 01:25:49 CEST 2007
>I gave you the wiki page SPECIFICALLY for the GTA02.  You'd think that
>would be the most likely place to find information about it.  Michael
>Shilo (if I spelled his name right) provides updates to the community
>list all the time.  Pay attention or quit complaining.

Uh, no, who really cares what the revision of the the thing is? No
consumer does. The most logical place to disseminate projected release
information is on the "Announce" list. What part of "Announce" do you
not understand?

The non-developers who want these only want to know when _a_ (as in
"any") version is going to go on sale to the general public. They also
are not going to feel like (or in many cases be capable of) digging
through the entire site to find the one place where updated
information is available, nor are they going to understand how a wiki
works. They are going to assume (reasonably) that the pages that
describe the minutiae of the hardware are static. An email list they
can understand.

...and, I HAVE been "paying attention".

To quote Michael Shiloh:
"You are partially correct, we are aiming for November, but the truth is
we can't tell exactly when it will be available for ordering because we
don't know what unexpected surprises we'll run in to.

Right now we're pretty happy with the third revision of GTA02 (GTA02v3).
We started the forth revision already and we should be our first units
of GTA02v4 so that we can start evaluating them any day now.

But as to exact dates, we can not predict that."

... which was only posted today, after the question had been asked,
and he never made any other posts that in the least bit addressed
dates until yesterday. And even this post is extremely vague.

I have been scouring the site all along, but the last time I checked
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 that timeline information was NOT
there. Apparently I've been paying a lot more attention than you...

Wolfmane

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Exact release date of GTA02v4?

[Mark]

Since no one else has seen fit to make an appropriate post, I'm
pasting this from the one place on the site that has some information:

Estimated time line
* Sep 20 - GTA02v3 design finalized.
* Sep 25 - GTA02v3 serious flaw found, GTA02v4 needed.
* Oct 15 - GTA02v4 design finalized.
* Oct 30 - GTA02v4 design produced, and shipped to qualified developers.
* Nov 20 - GTA02v4 design verified through testing by developers.
* Dec 10 - GTA02v4 produced in moderate volume
* Dec 20 - GTA02v4 goes on sale
* Dec 25 - GTA02v4 arrives. See Santa's Sleigh Package Service.


However, I suggest everyone take this with a grain of salt and not
expect anything until well after the New Year.

Wolfmane

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Marco Barreno]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 12:01:41PM -0700, Jeff Andros wrote:
> just making sure this pops up on Michael's email, he said to send him any
> place in the wiki that it says october

I just did a search for "october" on the wiki.  Looking only at the
little snippets that show up with search results, these pages seem to
need updating

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications
10: ...e in March, 1st phase is early July. 2nd phase is October... when we are 
ready for mass market appeal.}}

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware
165: ... phase 2 Neo1973, currently slated for release in October 2007.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone
2: ...rket.22.29|GTA02]]-revision that is announced for October 2007. For the 
earlier Neo1973 revision see [[IPho...

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
11: |October 2007 (Phase0, unconfirmed) 

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison/it
11: |October 2007

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/AR6K
1: ...o be the final WiFi modules for the device in the October release 
according to [[Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28G...

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone/fr
2: ...rket.22.29|GTA02]]-revision that is announced for October 2007. For the 
earlier Neo1973 revision see [[IPho...
92: |Vente au d?tail: October 2007

This is just what I saw on the first page of results, not including
ones that are obviously user comments.

Marco



> 
> On 10/23/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate of
> > when the GTA02 will be available :o)
> >
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
> > still says October 2007 for the GTA02
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff
> O|||O

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-- 
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- Chinese proverb

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Michael Shiloh]

Andreas Utterberg wrote:
Yes im sorry, i meant the GTA02 :-) and by release date i  mean when its 
available for ordering.
I realy want to have a neo, but want to wait for the 02 since i have 
heard something about nov-dec? is that correct?


Hello Andreas,

You are partially correct, we are aiming for November, but the truth is 
we can't tell exactly when it will be available for ordering because we 
don't know what unexpected surprises we'll run in to.


Right now we're pretty happy with the third revision of GTA02 (GTA02v3). 
We started the forth revision already and we should be our first units 
of GTA02v4 so that we can start evaluating them any day now.


But as to exact dates, we can not predict that.

Michael

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Richard Reichenbacher]

ian douglas wrote:

Richard Reichenbacher wrote:

Al Johnson wrote:

What more do you want?
  
A Big flashing neon sign on the wiki saying the exact time and date 
the phone will be available for purchasing.


Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate 
of when the GTA02 will be available :o)


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison 
still says October 2007 for the GTA02



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Or perhaps you could continue searching the wiki for updated information.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02

Scroll down to estimated time line.

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Jeff Andros]

just making sure this pops up on Michael's email, he said to send him any
place in the wiki that it says october

On 10/23/07, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate of
> when the GTA02 will be available :o)
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison
> still says October 2007 for the GTA02
>
>


-- 
Jeff
O|||O
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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[ian douglas]

Richard Reichenbacher wrote:

Al Johnson wrote:

What more do you want?
  
A Big flashing neon sign on the wiki saying the exact time and date the 
phone will be available for purchasing.


Or perhaps just a correction on the wiki giving us a better estimate of 
when the GTA02 will be available :o)


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison 
still says October 2007 for the GTA02



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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Richard Reichenbacher]

Al Johnson wrote:

On Tuesday 23 October 2007, Kevin Zuber wrote:
  

Mark schrieb:


As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for
this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement
of some kind, since up to now they've been saying "October" and we're
3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or
later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering
what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us
posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense
like this.

- Wolfmane
  

Yes, I think the same.



We've been told that boards are being tested, and that another revision may be 
needed. We've been told October won't happen, December is likely but things 
will depend on the results of the tests. Yesterday Michael said he was 
gathering info on this and would probably post it Friday. What more do you 
want?



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A Big flashing neon sign on the wiki saying the exact time and date the 
phone will be available for purchasing.



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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Al Johnson]

On Tuesday 23 October 2007, Kevin Zuber wrote:
> Mark schrieb:
> > As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for
> > this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement
> > of some kind, since up to now they've been saying "October" and we're
> > 3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or
> > later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering
> > what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us
> > posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense
> > like this.
> >
> > - Wolfmane
>
> Yes, I think the same.

We've been told that boards are being tested, and that another revision may be 
needed. We've been told October won't happen, December is likely but things 
will depend on the results of the tests. Yesterday Michael said he was 
gathering info on this and would probably post it Friday. What more do you 
want?


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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Kevin Zuber]

Mark schrieb:

As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for
this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement
of some kind, since up to now they've been saying "October" and we're
3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or
later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering
what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us
posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense
like this.

- Wolfmane
  

Yes, I think the same.

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Exact release date of GTA01Bv4?

[Mark]

>> Hi Community
>
>Hi, welcome!
>
> When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone
>
>Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.
>
>And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?
>
>a) the first announcement that you can order
>b) the first device did leave the production line
>c) the first real shipment has started
>d) the first owner has it in his hands?
>
>-- hns

He obviously meant GTA02, and just as obviously meant when it will be
possible to order. Anybody that's been following this at all knows
that there's a huge difference between "ordering" and "receiving", but
the earlier one orders, the more likely one will actually receive...

As someone who has been waiting on pins and needles for months for
this phone, I too am wondering why there has not been an announcement
of some kind, since up to now they've been saying "October" and we're
3/4 of the way through the month. If it's going to be January or
later, that's fine (and that's probably still optimistic, considering
what I've been reading on the lists), but they really should keep us
posted. It's extremely inconsiderate to keep everybody in suspense
like this.

- Wolfmane

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Sébastien Lorquet]

sometimes "RTFM" is a good answer...

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29

* 802.11 b/g WiFi
* Samsung 2442 SoC
* SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator
* 2 3D Accelerometers
* 256MB Flash
* 1700mAh Battery
* Faster CPU - S3C2442/400
* LEDs illuminating the two buttons.


2007/10/23, Andreas Utterberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Yes im sorry, i meant the GTA02 :-) and by release date i  mean when its
> available for ordering.
> I realy want to have a neo, but want to wait for the 02 since i have heard
> something about nov-dec? is that correct?
>
> Is it big differences in specs and looks of the GTA02 and the now
> available neo?
>
> /Andreas  U
>
> On 10/22/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Community
> >
> > Hi, welcome!
> >
> > > When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone
> >
> > Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.
> >
> > And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?
> >
> > a) the first announcement that you can order
> > b) the first device did leave the production line
> > c) the first real shipment has started
> > d) the first owner has it in his hands?
> >
> > -- hns
> >
> > ___
> > OpenMoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Utterberg
> Thundera AB
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>


-- 
Sébastien LORQUET - 이세영 (李世榮)
Ingénieur ENSPG 2006 / ENSIMAG-ASI 2007
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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Andreas Utterberg]

Yes im sorry, i meant the GTA02 :-) and by release date i  mean when its
available for ordering.
I realy want to have a neo, but want to wait for the 02 since i have heard
something about nov-dec? is that correct?

Is it big differences in specs and looks of the GTA02 and the now available
neo?

/Andreas  U

On 10/22/07, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Community
>
> Hi, welcome!
>
> > When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone
>
> Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.
>
> And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?
>
> a) the first announcement that you can order
> b) the first device did leave the production line
> c) the first real shipment has started
> d) the first owner has it in his hands?
>
> -- hns
>
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>



-- 
Andreas Utterberg
Thundera AB
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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[David Robinson]

Hi
I would define 'exact release' date to be the first day the  
devices are shipped.


On 22 Oct 2007, at 11:45, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:


Hi Community


Hi, welcome!


When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone


Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.

And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?

a) the first announcement that you can order
b) the first device did leave the production line
c) the first real shipment has started
d) the first owner has it in his hands?

-- hns

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Re: Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi Community


Hi, welcome!


When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone


Do you mean the GTA02? There is no announcement yet.

And just for my curiosity: how do you define "exact release" date?

a) the first announcement that you can order
b) the first device did leave the production line
c) the first real shipment has started
d) the first owner has it in his hands?

-- hns

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Exact release date of GTA01Bv4??

[Andreas Utterberg]

Hi Community

When is the exact release date of GTA01Bv4? The new Neo phone

Best regards

Andreas U
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Neo1973 Release Date

[Anthony Pica]

Hello Everyone,

Is there an official release for the Neo1973 OpenMoko phone yet?

-- 
Anthony Pica
Internet Services: http://www.graythought.com
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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Luca Dionisi]

In the wiki there are pages that seem to equate
 GTA01 = phase 1
 GTA02 = phase 2

What is GTA02 phase-1 ?

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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Mario Wewer]

Does this
 > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
mean, that the first neos of GTA02-release are possibly again a 
developers-release? And will be shipped/declared as a developers-version? Then 
we won't have to pay an import fee - right?

- Original Message -
From: "Ian Stirling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "List for OpenMoko community discussion" 
Sent: Sonntag, 26. August 2007 13.22 Uhr (GMT+0100) Europe/Berlin
Subject: Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

Steven ** wrote:
>> On 8/25/07, *Ian Stirling* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>> 
>> It would be nice to have some information on this.
>> 
>> Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be
>> produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in volume
>>   to developers in October?
>> 
 > See
 > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
 >

I missed that somehow.

Which answers it - assuming that Phase 1 is shipping to developers.

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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Luca Dionisi]

On 8/26/07, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steven ** wrote:
> >> On 8/25/07, *Ian Stirling* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> It would be nice to have some information on this.
> >>
> >> Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be
> >> produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in 
> >> volume
> >>   to developers in October?
> >>
>  > See
>  > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
>  >
>
> I missed that somehow.
>
> Which answers it - assuming that Phase 1 is shipping to developers.
>
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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Ian Stirling]

Steven ** wrote:
On 8/25/07, *Ian Stirling* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


It would be nice to have some information on this.

Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be
produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in volume
  to developers in October?


> See
> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html
>

I missed that somehow.

Which answers it - assuming that Phase 1 is shipping to developers.

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Re: Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Steven **]

See http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-August/009491.html

On 8/25/07, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It would be nice to have some information on this.
>
> Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be
> produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in volume
>   to developers in October?
>
> Or is this now looking unlikely.
>
> (We all of course understand that unexpected delays may happen. However,
> unexpected advances are rarer, so I think this is a reasonable question)
>
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Earliest possible release date for GTA02 - is it past October?

[Ian Stirling]

It would be nice to have some information on this.

Is it still plausible that if everything falls right, GTA02 can be 
produced in volume, in time for purchased units to be supplied in volume 
 to developers in October?


Or is this now looking unlikely.

(We all of course understand that unexpected delays may happen. However, 
unexpected advances are rarer, so I think this is a reasonable question)


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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 6/6/07 6:07 PM, "De Villiers, Jaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can you please tell me if you will be shipping to South Africa when the phone
> is released ? 
> Also , at what time can we expect the phone to be released ? September ? Or
> closer to 2008 ? 
> Thank you for your time

We don't have these phones for sale yet. Please signup for our announce
mailing list and we'll notify you as soon as we're ready.

-Sean


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The actual release date of NEO1973

[De Villiers, Jaco]

Hi.
Can you please tell me if you will be shipping to South Africa when the
phone is released ?
Also , at what time can we expect the phone to be released ? September ?
Or closer to 2008 ?
Thank you for your time
- Jaco


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Re: GPS vs. TDOA (was Re: release date)

[michael]

 So why is GPS the killer functionality the Neo has over the iPhone?


I just came back from presenting OpenMoko at a BoF session at Where 2.0, and
the overwhelming opinion there was that access to the raw GPS data that is
unavailable on all other GPS platforms is what sets OpenMoko apart. There was
no question of comparison to iPhone or other GPS-enabled platforms.

These are the people thinking about future location-aware devices and
applications. Existing GPS-aware devices are still narrow in their perspective
of why you might want this information, and allow access (in varying degrees)
only within this view. The frustration in this community is that if you want
the raw data for other uses, you can't get it.

Mind you, I'm no expert in this field. I barely know what I'm talking about,
so my understanding and my conveyence of this to you may be inaccurate and is
no doubt incomplete. But there was no doubting the interest, and the clear
understanding that to the Where 2.0 crowd OpenMoko presents opportunities that
are completely unavailable elsewhere unless they build their own (e.g.
SVHMPC).

I hope some of those people join this list soon and will correct me.

Michael

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Re: GPS vs. TDOA (was Re: release date)

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Andrew, I used both Garmin Ique and Cellphone based-GPS.

I can give you hard examples why no corporation that does service calls 
at this moment would even consider "cell-based GPS".


I visit customers all over the US and Canada.
Out of the 50 or so visits there were about 20 with no cellphone 
coverage in remote areas where sawmills are located.

On the contrary, my Garmin GPS worked flawlessly everywhere.

You have no idea what a PITA it is to get to an airport in the middle of 
the night, with the cell-gps guiding you out of the city and then just 
dies when you get rural.
Furthermore, in order to solve the problem, you will have to carry 3 or 
four simcards from different carriers since the coverage maps are 
different for different areas.


If you stick to urban areas here in the USA,  fine "cell-based gps" 
works fine.
If you do corporate time critical traveling and service just get a 
REAL gps such as Garmin or what the FIC NEO will be able to have.


If you want to lose money in the services industry here in the US...go 
ahead use a cellphone to guide you.

Been there done that, late or lost every time.

AGAIN: I would at this moment not mind to get a Fic Neo if it can make 
calls and receive calls and it will be nice to get the software upgrades 
and see it evolve.

I just cannot buy the APPLE I-Phone.
It is a dead end FIC NEO lookalike , however nice it is.
The Iphone is a nice  city phone gizmo, not a real business assistant
.
The FIC has a real chance to become a real travel assistant, but you 
have to get the basic phones in our hands as soon as the hardware is the 
final version, else you will make FIC  miss the buss.
If it receives call dials, have an address book  and the hardware is 
finalized...get it out!



Andrew Becherer wrote:

On 5/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I think you guys need to get this out asap.
The only reason I do not buy the iphone right now is because it does not
have GPS.


I think my question is why is everybody freaking out about the iPhone
not having GPS? It will report location as close as 30 meters, usually
within 100 meters and almost always within 300 meters. This accuracy
is good enough for most applications. Even better cellular TDOA is
accurate inside building as well as outside buildings (which in my
experience GPS is not).  Are location detection services like
TruePosition's U-TDOA (used by Cingular and T-Mobile in the USA) not
available internationally?

So why is GPS the killer functionality the Neo has over the iPhone?

(note: I understand why the OpenMoko development platform is better
than the iPhone. I'm just talking about GPS vs. carrier provided
location detection.)




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Re: release date

[Lee Colleton]

People should expect that with a phone named "Neo" they're going to be
hacking the matrix.

--Lee

On 5/20/07, Andreas Kostyrka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


i think your problem will be more the crude state of the software at the
moment.

It's clearly in the "I knew and I knowingly choose for myself" phase. e.g.
i would take one because it can dial voice calls, but most people expect a
different level of sophistication.

Andreas

-- Ursprüngl. Mitteil. --
Betreff:release date
Von:Lv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Datum:  21.05.2007 06:05

What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I
be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo
can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy
something else.

It better be soon, warts and all.

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AW: release date

[Andreas Kostyrka]

i think your problem will be more the crude state of the software at the moment.

It's clearly in the "I knew and I knowingly choose for myself" phase. e.g. i 
would take one because it can dial voice calls, but most people expect a 
different level of sophistication.

Andreas

-- Ursprüngl. Mitteil. --
Betreff:    release date
Von:Lv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Datum:  21.05.2007 06:05

What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I 
be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo 
can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
something else.

It better be soon, warts and all.

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release date

[Lv]

What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I 
be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo 
can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
something else.


It better be soon, warts and all.

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Re: GPS vs. TDOA (was Re: release date)

[Jeff Andros]

I think my question is why is everybody freaking out about the iPhone
not having GPS? It will report location as close as 30 meters, usually
within 100 meters and almost always within 300 meters. This accuracy
is good enough for most applications. Even better cellular TDOA is
accurate inside building as well as outside buildings (which in my
experience GPS is not).  Are location detection services like
TruePosition's U-TDOA (used by Cingular and T-Mobile in the USA) not
available internationally?



Well, for one thing, it's my understanding TDOA is dependent on the cellular
provider giving you access to the data.  the AGPS on the NEO is capable of
running completely autonomously, or it can download the sat position data
from any data source.  In other words, typically you have to pay for access
to the TDOA data (whereas the US government provides GPS for "free"), and
you are always dependent on staying within the network.  There are quite a
few times I'm outside any coverage area (they start putting up towers in the
middle of the national forests, and I'm going to be pissed).  Also, the
early reports say the NEO's GPS is pretty good within buildings. Anyways, if
I'm wrong, let me know, but until then I'm glad we're going with GPS



--
Jeff
O|||O
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GPS vs. TDOA (was Re: release date)

[Andrew Becherer]

On 5/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I think you guys need to get this out asap.
The only reason I do not buy the iphone right now is because it does not
have GPS.


In the United States the iPhone, no doubt, makes use of radiolocation
instead of GPS. Cingular uses Time difference of arrival (TDOA). This
system uses multilateration, much like GPS.

It is my understanding that civilian GPS is generally accurate within
15 meters. The FCC requires American cellular providers to be able to
determine the position of a phone within 100 meters 67% of the time
and 300 meters 95% of the time. It is my understanding that TDOA can
currently achieve accuracy within 30 meters.

Many modern phones support the Location API for J2ME (JSR 179). On a
Cingular or T-Mobile network this location is provided by TDOA (unless
your phone has GPS which it usually does not). I've used J2ME location
based applications on Cingular's network to good effect. I have not
been able to compare TDOA to GPS because I haven't had access to a GPS
enabled phone.

I think my question is why is everybody freaking out about the iPhone
not having GPS? It will report location as close as 30 meters, usually
within 100 meters and almost always within 300 meters. This accuracy
is good enough for most applications. Even better cellular TDOA is
accurate inside building as well as outside buildings (which in my
experience GPS is not).  Are location detection services like
TruePosition's U-TDOA (used by Cingular and T-Mobile in the USA) not
available internationally?

So why is GPS the killer functionality the Neo has over the iPhone?

(note: I understand why the OpenMoko development platform is better
than the iPhone. I'm just talking about GPS vs. carrier provided
location detection.)

--
Andrew Becherer
Undergraduate, Computing and Software Systems
University of Washington, Tacoma

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Re: release date

[Rich Goodwin]

I couldn't agree more on the first two items.  I would however up e-mail
to number 2 and include Groupware (calendar, notes, ) and texting
(SMS or IM) in the top list.  GPS is important to me/our effort but not
as high a priority as mail, calendar & texting.  A dev environment for
corporate apps as well but that could be a parallel effort.

Rich


On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 15:37 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I dont mind having a FIC NEO 1973, phone that I can only call with and 
> receive calls initially.
> No problem. I think FIC & developers underestimates this. there a re a 
> lot of us in companies want to use the phone platform for other markets 
> anyway.
> Open Source is the only way we can create derivative applications for it 
> to even distribute with our products.
> 
> If the hardware is fixed right now and will not be upgraded severely, it 
> would be great to have one now and continually upgrade and add software 
> as it develops.
> This is anyway how most open source folks work and it is part of the fun.
> 
> As Steve Jobs said in his keynote speech with the release of the iphone, 
> "making a call is the killer app"
> He is right and we must not forget that.
> 
> I think you guys need to get this out asap.
> The only reason I do not buy the iphone right now is because it does not 
> have GPS.
> 
> To me there are three killer aps in order of importance
> 1) Make a call (thanks Steve you're right)
> 2) GPS
> 3) Open source.
> 3) Internet/mail etc.
> 
> L Venter
> MMRI
> 
> Ian Stirling wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will 
> >> I be able to buy it?
> >> I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the 
> >> neo can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
> >> If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
> >> something else.
> >>
> >
> > For end-users, it's still September.
> > For developers, a couple of weeks, hopefully.
> > This will _NOT_ be a workable phone you want to distribute to 
> > employees in a couple of weeks.
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: release date

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I dont mind having a FIC NEO 1973, phone that I can only call with and 
receive calls initially.
No problem. I think FIC & developers underestimates this. there a re a 
lot of us in companies want to use the phone platform for other markets 
anyway.
Open Source is the only way we can create derivative applications for it 
to even distribute with our products.


If the hardware is fixed right now and will not be upgraded severely, it 
would be great to have one now and continually upgrade and add software 
as it develops.

This is anyway how most open source folks work and it is part of the fun.

As Steve Jobs said in his keynote speech with the release of the iphone, 
"making a call is the killer app"

He is right and we must not forget that.

I think you guys need to get this out asap.
The only reason I do not buy the iphone right now is because it does not 
have GPS.


To me there are three killer aps in order of importance
1) Make a call (thanks Steve you're right)
2) GPS
3) Open source.
3) Internet/mail etc.

L Venter
MMRI

Ian Stirling wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will 
I be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the 
neo can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
something else.




For end-users, it's still September.
For developers, a couple of weeks, hopefully.
This will _NOT_ be a workable phone you want to distribute to 
employees in a couple of weeks.






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Re: release date

[Ian Stirling]

Tomasz Zielinski wrote:

2007/5/18, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


For end-users, it's still September.


It definitely doesn't look like the OpenMoko (software) will be ready
in 3 months.


I had doubts about the originalish schedule of Feb->Sep.
May->Sep is challenging.
I think it's probably safe to say that it'll take a fair amount of 
effort to get a nice set of end-user-safe apps in 3 months ish.

And that open-source development often doesn't behave well in time pressure.
I'm assuming in this that there is a step change in development effort 
once hardware hits interested devs.


I know I can develop without hardware.
I know I should.
But, the presence of a phone would be a powerful motivator.

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Re: release date

[Rich Goodwin]

OK ... you peaked my interest.  I understand not giving it to many
others to use but as long as a one can make/receive a call - that is all
I'd expect at this point. Is it a functional phone??  More importantly,
are there any H/W mods planned?  and will the developer version be
upgradable?

I'm still interested in the developer version - it does help to get
expectations in line. 

Thanks for the update!

Rich

On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 20:00 +0100, Ian Stirling wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I 
> > be able to buy it?
> > I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo 
> > can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
> > If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
> > something else.
> > 
> 
> For end-users, it's still September.
> For developers, a couple of weeks, hopefully.
> This will _NOT_ be a workable phone you want to distribute to employees 
> in a couple of weeks.
> 
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Re: release date

[Tomasz Zielinski]

2007/5/18, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


For end-users, it's still September.


It definitely doesn't look like the OpenMoko (software) will be ready
in 3 months.

--
Tomek Z.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: release date

[Ian Stirling]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I 
be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo 
can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
something else.




For end-users, it's still September.
For developers, a couple of weeks, hopefully.
This will _NOT_ be a workable phone you want to distribute to employees 
in a couple of weeks.


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release date

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

What is the latest release date for the FIC NEO 1973, and where will I 
be able to buy it?
I am holding off on company cellphone purchases until I see what the neo 
can do as my company is Unix only which makes it very attractive.
If it will take till next year it will be lights out and I will buy 
something else.


It better be soon, warts and all.

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Re: Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Stefan Schmidt]

Hello.

On Mon, 2007-02-12 at 19:38, Robert Michel wrote:
> 
> So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC,
> and the SD standards are not so open that writing 
> drivers would be possible to everybody - right?

The simplified SD sstandard also covers SDHC. Plain linux kernel
already has SDHC support. IIRC the patches are in 2.6.20

> Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that
> phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later?

The controller also has to support SDHC. Not sure about the one on our
SoC. I would guess it can do SDHC, but I'm not sure. To lazy to search
for spec right now. :)

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Robert Michel]

Salve Harald!

Harald Welte schrieb am Sonntag, den 11. Februar 2007 um 22:21h:
> On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:05:03PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
> > Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been 
> > confirmed?
> 
> Sandisk 2GB SDSDQU-2048-E10M works just fine.

Thank you for this good news :)


I don't want be unfair by talking about more memory,
I'm just intersted in the spezification of the Neo1973
- knowing about limitation of v1 does not mean that it
limited the real big step OpenMoko/Neo1973 as first
free GSM phone will bring into the live - it doesn't
matter if we can use 2 or 4 GB cards - even with 
1 GB cards or even without memory cards, 
OpenMoko/Neo1973 has high potential to do things
- with more security
- more privatcy
- better
- more fun...

But BTW memory cards, SanDisk anounced today in Barcelona the first 4 GB 
microSDHC:
   "[...]
   SanDisk is now sampling the new 4GB microSDHC card to OEMs such as
   major phone manufacturers and mobile network operators (MNOs).
   Engineering samples are now available for evaluation, as mobile phone
   makers will need to upgrade the firmware in their handsets so that
   memory slots can support the new card.
   SDHC is the new designation for any SD(TM) or SD-based card that is
   larger than 2GB and adheres to the new SD 2.00 specification that is
   required for cards and hosts to support 4GB to 32GB capacities. The
   specification was developed by the SD Association, an industry
   standards board, which also defined three speed classes for speed and
   performance capabilities. These cards adhere to the SD Speed Class 2
   Rating specification which defines a minimum sustained transfer speed
   for SDHC cards.
   Retail release of the card is planned for later in 2007. OEM pricing
   has not been determined yet.
   [...]"
http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3711
 


So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC,
and the SD standards are not so open that writing 
drivers would be possible to everybody - right?
Wasn't it your meritoriousness, Harald, that the
SD driver from TomTom becomes public?

To avoid speculations and hopes, is it clear today,
that  phase-1-Neo1973s/phase-2-Neo1973s will have a
limited of microSD cards to 2GB? Or not?
Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that
phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later?


Best wishes!
rob




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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Harald Welte]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:05:03PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote:
> Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> > On 1/12/07 4:53 PM, "Mikko Rauhala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Incidentally, I'm also interested in the official word, if any, on the
> >> new 4G micro-SDs. I _was_ glad to see Sean's "micro-SD can go to 2GB
> >> now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me)" comment, though I would be
> >> more comfortable if FIC themselves verify that 2GB micro-SDs do, in
> >> fact, work, what with all the scary rumours about the SOC 1G limitation
> >> applying to SDs too. (Vendors... ;] )
> > 
> > I'm out of the country now, but I will ask our developers to track one down
> > for testing. We'll let you know our results.
> 
> Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been 
> confirmed?

Sandisk 2GB SDSDQU-2048-E10M works just fine.

-- 
- Harald Welte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://openmoko.org/

Software for the world's first truly open Free Software mobile phone

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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sven Neuhaus]

Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> On 1/12/07 4:53 PM, "Mikko Rauhala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Incidentally, I'm also interested in the official word, if any, on the
>> new 4G micro-SDs. I _was_ glad to see Sean's "micro-SD can go to 2GB
>> now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me)" comment, though I would be
>> more comfortable if FIC themselves verify that 2GB micro-SDs do, in
>> fact, work, what with all the scary rumours about the SOC 1G limitation
>> applying to SDs too. (Vendors... ;] )
> 
> I'm out of the country now, but I will ask our developers to track one down
> for testing. We'll let you know our results.

Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been confirmed?

Thanks,
-Sven

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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sven Neuhaus]

Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb:

On 1/13/07 2:04 PM, "Ole Tange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

If FIC are smart they will sell to the EU citizens from an EU address.
This will make the customs clearance and warranty problems disappear,
as EU has the same minimum standards for warranty (see
http://www.euroconsumer.org.uk/index/consumer_centres.htm) and no
customs for goods internally in EU.

I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU
that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will
probably make sense, too.


We are doing this.


Great!

-Sven

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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 1/13/07 2:04 PM, "Ole Tange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 1/13/07, Oleg Gusev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 01:53 schrieb Mikko Rauhala:
>>> 
>>> Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently
>>> talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb...
>> 
>> What about VAT, customs clearance and warranty when one
>> orders directly ?
> 
> If FIC are smart they will sell to the EU citizens from an EU address.
> This will make the customs clearance and warranty problems disappear,
> as EU has the same minimum standards for warranty (see
> http://www.euroconsumer.org.uk/index/consumer_centres.htm) and no
> customs for goods internally in EU.
> 
> I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU
> that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will
> probably make sense, too.

We are doing this.

-Sean


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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Ole Tange]

On 1/12/07, Gervais Mulongoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I think we should create a To-Do list or a Wish List, so we can track the
sort of features that would be nice to have in the phone. I think we should
model this on http://www.neurosaudio.com/


See: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Ideas

/Ole

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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 1/12/07 6:50 AM, "Jon Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 09:22 -0500, Gervais Mulongoy wrote:
>> I think we should create a To-Do list or a Wish List, so we can track
>> the sort of features that would be nice to have in the phone. I think
>> we should model this on http://www.neurosaudio.com/
> 
> Is there a wiki on the openmoko site to work on this? Sean, this would
> be great to capture these ideas.

Yes we have a Wiki...but we're still working with our designers to theme the
thing and get some basic content ready. I'm not sure exactly when we can
launch the thing. But the very latest would be when we start shipping
handsets. So Feb.

-Sean


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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 1/12/07 9:56 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Sean, please tell your team that we (well some of us at least) support your
> decision to delay the release until you are happy with the unit.

Thanks guys!

> One thing: Please remove the "January" statement on the openmoko website. That
> looks bad and frightens away newcomers.

Whew...sorry about that!

-Sean


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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Ole Tange]

On 1/13/07, Oleg Gusev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 01:53 schrieb Mikko Rauhala:
>
> Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently
> talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb...

What about VAT, customs clearance and warranty when one
orders directly ?


If FIC are smart they will sell to the EU citizens from an EU address.
This will make the customs clearance and warranty problems disappear,
as EU has the same minimum standards for warranty (see
http://www.euroconsumer.org.uk/index/consumer_centres.htm) and no
customs for goods internally in EU.

I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU
that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will
probably make sense, too.

I would expect the same setup would go for US.

The rest of the world will probably have to deal with the mess.


/Ole

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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Andreas Kostyrka]

* Oleg Gusev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070113 02:06]:
> Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 01:53 schrieb Mikko Rauhala:
> >
> > Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently
> > talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb...
> >
> 
> What about VAT, customs clearance and warranty when one
You have the priviledge to pay the VAT yourself (at least if you are
not a VAT paying company), customs clearance shouldn't be much of an
issue, and well, warranty, guess you need to mail it back to them.

OTOH, warranty works very bad for phones bought at the local T-Mobile
store too. (No problem, we'll send it in, you can expect it in 4-6
weeks back. Well if you pay, you can get loaner-phone. Well it does
do voice and SMS. Quite a good replacement for a smartphone, isn't it?
Endsolution: you might send it in, but one ends buying a second one
for the duration anyway :( )

Andreas

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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Torsten Röhl]

Am Montag, 15. Januar 2007 14:50 schrieb Marcin Juszkiewicz:
> Dnia sobota, 13 stycznia 2007 14:04, Ole Tange napisał:
> > I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU
> > that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will
> > probably make sense, too.
>
> From my informations there will be atleast one company in EU which will
> sell Neo1973 phones. I can not tell which one it will be - I can only tell
> that they are well known in some environments.

That would be great,
Torsten Röhl


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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

Dnia sobota, 13 stycznia 2007 14:04, Ole Tange napisał:

> I also would expect FIC already has at least one distributer in EU
> that can cover all of EU. From a shipping cost perspective it will
> probably make sense, too.

From my informations there will be atleast one company in EU which will 
sell Neo1973 phones. I can not tell which one it will be - I can only tell 
that they are well known in some environments.

-- 
JID: hrw-jabber.org
OpenEmbedded developer/consultant

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
-- Sigmund Freud



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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 1/12/07 4:53 PM, "Mikko Rauhala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Incidentally, I'm also interested in the official word, if any, on the
> new 4G micro-SDs. I _was_ glad to see Sean's "micro-SD can go to 2GB
> now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me)" comment, though I would be
> more comfortable if FIC themselves verify that 2GB micro-SDs do, in
> fact, work, what with all the scary rumours about the SOC 1G limitation
> applying to SDs too. (Vendors... ;] )

I'm out of the country now, but I will ask our developers to track one down
for testing. We'll let you know our results.

-Sean


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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On 1/12/07 7:37 AM, "Shu Hung (Koala)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 1/12/07, Ole Tange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order,
>> so you will be the first to get a phone.
> 
> I agree that a pre-order form or anything similar is good.
> At least I'd want to be notify when I can buy it online.

Just make sure you're subscribed to either the community or announce lists.
We'll definitely make this stuff known here.

-Sean


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Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Oleg Gusev]

Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 01:53 schrieb Mikko Rauhala:
>
> Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently
> talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb...
>

What about VAT, customs clearance and warranty when one 
orders directly ?

 Oleg.

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Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Mikko Rauhala]

la, 2007-01-13 kello 10:48 +1100, Tim Erwin kirjoitti:
> Currently I think the release is slated for Feb but I hope this
> doesn't keep being pushed back.

Indeed I share the hope of phones shipping in Feb. More than that I have
the hope of nothing being particularly wrong with the phones. Hopefully
we can have both ;)

> If the phone is release in Feb will this be worldwide? (I am in
> Australia) 

Again I'm no official source, but as far as I see, they've consistently
talked about it being global direct sale, whether it's Jan or Feb...

And now for something completely different; for those of us who just
don't ever have enough space, there seems to be products like BluOnyx:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/18/ageres-bluonyx-portable-bluetooth-media-streamer-for-your-phone/

Wonder if an external BT (yay, BT!) storage device would be easy to make
work with the Neo; is there a standard BT profile for this sort of
thing? I'm mainly thinking about eg. cramming in more multimedia
material than would fit a microSD. It would of course eat extra power to
use a BT disk drive, but that isn't always the biggest of issues (esp.
if external power is readily available). At least the space would be
there. (Come to think of it, if external power is available, a powered
USB disk would work. But hey, at least with a battery-powered BT disk
you'd still have access without external power, just not necessarily for
the longest of times! ;)

Incidentally, I'm also interested in the official word, if any, on the
new 4G micro-SDs. I _was_ glad to see Sean's "micro-SD can go to 2GB
now. (Or that's what my vendors tell me)" comment, though I would be
more comfortable if FIC themselves verify that 2GB micro-SDs do, in
fact, work, what with all the scary rumours about the SOC 1G limitation
applying to SDs too. (Vendors... ;] )

Will not change whether I purchase a Neo or not, just what size my first
Neo accessory will be ;)

-- 
Mikko Rauhala   - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/>
Transhumanist   - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/>
Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/>


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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Tim Erwin]

Is there a wiki on the openmoko site to work on this? Sean, this would
be great to capture these ideas.


I agree that would be great!

Currently I think the release is slated for Feb but I hope this doesn't keep
being pushed back. If the phone is release in Feb will this be worldwide? (I
am in Australia)

Cheers,

Tim
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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[michael]

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Robert Michel wrote:


Salve Ole, *!





Release date
I'm happy that Sean and FIC does not anounce a fixed date
let us give them the freedom other device-projects does not
have - to take as much time as possible. I would not worry
when it will be April or later :)
See how much of the first design of a IBM-PC or a Personal
PalmPilot is still used today.





So I would love to see enough time for the developers to
get full sleep and a free weekend and come back to add
some "nice to have" instead of solving "must have" tasks






Hear hear! Thank you Robert for writing this.

Sean, please tell your team that we (well some of us at least) support your
decision to delay the release until you are happy with the unit.

One thing: Please remove the "January" statement on the openmoko website. That
looks bad and frightens away newcomers.

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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Shu Hung (Koala)]

On 1/12/07, Ole Tange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order,
so you will be the first to get a phone.



I agree that a pre-order form or anything similar is good.
At least I'd want to be notify when I can buy it online.

Koala Yeung
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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Jon Phillips]

On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 09:22 -0500, Gervais Mulongoy wrote:
> I think we should create a To-Do list or a Wish List, so we can track
> the sort of features that would be nice to have in the phone. I think
> we should model this on http://www.neurosaudio.com/

Is there a wiki on the openmoko site to work on this? Sean, this would
be great to capture these ideas.

Jon

> On 1/12/07, Robert Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salve Ole, *!
> 
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Ole Tange wrote:
> > What I would love to see, however, is a website where you
> can pre-order,
> > so you will be the first to get a phone.
> 
> I don't think that you have to fear that you will not 
> be able to get one of the first phones - I'm quite shure
> that being activ on this list with good ideas - and maybe
> already writing some solutions count much more that to
> be the first in a pre-order-db.
> 
> And the most of you should know the vapur-ware filewarker
> http://www.invair.de/
> The have taken down their "order now for the first release"
> but I have big concerns when I such "Order now" pages for 
> inovative products...
> ;)
> 
> Release date
> I'm happy that Sean and FIC does not anounce a fixed date
> let us give them the freedom other device-projects does not
> have - to take as much time as possible. I would not worry 
> when it will be April or later :)
> See how much of the first design of a IBM-PC or a Personal
> PalmPilot is still used today.
> 
> Some small inexpensive or cost less improvements could
> make the product much more stable or better usable: 
> the last 5-10% perfectness where commercial developers
> nearly never have the time for - because there is the
> expo or the christmas-business for what the device must
> be ready for...
> 
> And when the first devices are out, you can create a second 
> generation with e.g. wifi, powered USB or USB2 - but smaller
> changings that change the way to programm or to use the device
> screen resolution, the way your touch screen work -
> power saving (no good examples..) are not so good to do. 
> See how similar the layout of the PalmPilots has been
> - as far as I know all hacks and programms could be run
> without modification till PalmOS 5.0
> 
> So I would love to see enough time for the developers to
> get full sleep and a free weekend and come back to add
> some "nice to have" instead of solving "must have" tasks
> 
> - care about battery loading (maybe a small capacitor..)
>   it could help also that data in RAM is not lost when 
>   the power was interrupted.
> I saw a Windows PDA at my friends desk - oh - new?
> He said - no, a borrowed PDA with navigation - but
> I have lost all data in RAM because of power and now
> I can't use the navigation, because I haven't the 
> registration key and my partner can't find it now...
> 
>   Palm Pilots have a reset - but no function to split
>   the RAM and reset only the system and try to recover
>   parts of the data. Being on the road and being lost 
>   when your mobile device lost it's data is not realy
>   smart.
> 
>   So I found it important, that the Neo1973 could work
>   even without battery, just usb-powered.
> 
> - make sound quality even better with a better shielding 
>   or more nf(1-40.000 Hz) clean power supply for the audio
>   part
> 
> - adding an audio in jack
> 
> - some sensors
> 
> - little power for the USB to use USB Memory sicks
>   (and other people MP3-stick) without USB power supply 
> 
> - more nice things which the Neo1973 developers would
>   start think about when they have the freedom to do it
> 
> 
> Ok it must not to much time - but Sean, when your team
> deside the hardware design of the Neo1973 is ready, go 
> to ask your team
> - how would you design it, when you would have your
>   ideas and knowledge form the beginning?
> - what would you like to add for a second version
> - what would you like to add to the first ver

Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Gervais Mulongoy]

I think we should create a To-Do list or a Wish List, so we can track the
sort of features that would be nice to have in the phone. I think we should
model this on http://www.neurosaudio.com/

On 1/12/07, Robert Michel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Salve Ole, *!

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Ole Tange wrote:
> What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order,
> so you will be the first to get a phone.

I don't think that you have to fear that you will not
be able to get one of the first phones - I'm quite shure
that being activ on this list with good ideas - and maybe
already writing some solutions count much more that to
be the first in a pre-order-db.

And the most of you should know the vapur-ware filewarker
http://www.invair.de/
The have taken down their "order now for the first release"
but I have big concerns when I such "Order now" pages for
inovative products...
;)

Release date
I'm happy that Sean and FIC does not anounce a fixed date
let us give them the freedom other device-projects does not
have - to take as much time as possible. I would not worry
when it will be April or later :)
See how much of the first design of a IBM-PC or a Personal
PalmPilot is still used today.

Some small inexpensive or cost less improvements could
make the product much more stable or better usable:
the last 5-10% perfectness where commercial developers
nearly never have the time for - because there is the
expo or the christmas-business for what the device must
be ready for...

And when the first devices are out, you can create a second
generation with e.g. wifi, powered USB or USB2 - but smaller
changings that change the way to programm or to use the device
screen resolution, the way your touch screen work -
power saving (no good examples..) are not so good to do.
See how similar the layout of the PalmPilots has been
- as far as I know all hacks and programms could be run
without modification till PalmOS 5.0

So I would love to see enough time for the developers to
get full sleep and a free weekend and come back to add
some "nice to have" instead of solving "must have" tasks

- care about battery loading (maybe a small capacitor..)
  it could help also that data in RAM is not lost when
  the power was interrupted.
I saw a Windows PDA at my friends desk - oh - new?
He said - no, a borrowed PDA with navigation - but
I have lost all data in RAM because of power and now
I can't use the navigation, because I haven't the
registration key and my partner can't find it now...

  Palm Pilots have a reset - but no function to split
  the RAM and reset only the system and try to recover
  parts of the data. Being on the road and being lost
  when your mobile device lost it's data is not realy
  smart.

  So I found it important, that the Neo1973 could work
  even without battery, just usb-powered.

- make sound quality even better with a better shielding
  or more nf(1-40.000 Hz) clean power supply for the audio
  part

- adding an audio in jack

- some sensors

- little power for the USB to use USB Memory sicks
  (and other people MP3-stick) without USB power supply

- more nice things which the Neo1973 developers would
  start think about when they have the freedom to do it


Ok it must not to much time - but Sean, when your team
deside the hardware design of the Neo1973 is ready, go
to ask your team
- how would you design it, when you would have your
  ideas and knowledge form the beginning?
- what would you like to add for a second version
- what would you like to add to the first version,
  when we take 2 or 4 more weeks?

:)

So I'm very happy that the first version will have BT
:))
Which kind of BT - version, class?

And can somebody explain me if the chip/hardware could
limit the BT software/profile power, or would be everything
possible? like:
- stereo audio streaming (possible to or from the NEO?)
- multiple profiles simultanius? using BT keyboard and
  BT headset at the same time?

Cheers,
rob




















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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Robert Michel]

Salve Ole, *!

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Ole Tange wrote:
> What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order,
> so you will be the first to get a phone.

I don't think that you have to fear that you will not
be able to get one of the first phones - I'm quite shure
that being activ on this list with good ideas - and maybe
already writing some solutions count much more that to
be the first in a pre-order-db.

And the most of you should know the vapur-ware filewarker
http://www.invair.de/
The have taken down their "order now for the first release"
but I have big concerns when I such "Order now" pages for 
inovative products...
;)

Release date
I'm happy that Sean and FIC does not anounce a fixed date
let us give them the freedom other device-projects does not
have - to take as much time as possible. I would not worry
when it will be April or later :)
See how much of the first design of a IBM-PC or a Personal 
PalmPilot is still used today.

Some small inexpensive or cost less improvements could
make the product much more stable or better usable:
the last 5-10% perfectness where commercial developers
nearly never have the time for - because there is the
expo or the christmas-business for what the device must
be ready for...

And when the first devices are out, you can create a second
generation with e.g. wifi, powered USB or USB2 - but smaller
changings that change the way to programm or to use the device
screen resolution, the way your touch screen work - 
power saving (no good examples..) are not so good to do.
See how similar the layout of the PalmPilots has been
- as far as I know all hacks and programms could be run
without modification till PalmOS 5.0

So I would love to see enough time for the developers to
get full sleep and a free weekend and come back to add
some "nice to have" instead of solving "must have" tasks

- care about battery loading (maybe a small capacitor..)
  it could help also that data in RAM is not lost when
  the power was interrupted.
I saw a Windows PDA at my friends desk - oh - new?
He said - no, a borrowed PDA with navigation - but
I have lost all data in RAM because of power and now
I can't use the navigation, because I haven't the
registration key and my partner can't find it now...

  Palm Pilots have a reset - but no function to split
  the RAM and reset only the system and try to recover
  parts of the data. Being on the road and being lost
  when your mobile device lost it's data is not realy
  smart.
  
  So I found it important, that the Neo1973 could work
  even without battery, just usb-powered.

- make sound quality even better with a better shielding
  or more nf(1-40.000 Hz) clean power supply for the audio
  part
  
- adding an audio in jack

- some sensors

- little power for the USB to use USB Memory sicks
  (and other people MP3-stick) without USB power supply

- more nice things which the Neo1973 developers would
  start think about when they have the freedom to do it


Ok it must not to much time - but Sean, when your team
deside the hardware design of the Neo1973 is ready, go
to ask your team
- how would you design it, when you would have your
  ideas and knowledge form the beginning?
- what would you like to add for a second version
- what would you like to add to the first version,
  when we take 2 or 4 more weeks?

:)

So I'm very happy that the first version will have BT
:))
Which kind of BT - version, class?

And can somebody explain me if the chip/hardware could
limit the BT software/profile power, or would be everything
possible? like:
- stereo audio streaming (possible to or from the NEO?)
- multiple profiles simultanius? using BT keyboard and 
  BT headset at the same time?

Cheers,
rob

  


















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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Gervais Mulongoy]

February.

On 1/12/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello,

Is there any information on the actual release date of NEO1973?
I can find no purchase nor release information on the internet.
I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of guy looking for it.

Thanks,
Koala

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Re: The actual release date of NEO1973

[Ole Tange]

On 1/12/07, Shu Hung (Koala) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Is there any information on the actual release date of NEO1973?


After working in the IT industry I know that actual release dates are
dangerous and should be avoided if possible, as you may feel forced to
rush out a product with known bugs.

What I would love to see, however, is a website where you can pre-order,
so you will be the first to get a phone.

/Ole

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The actual release date of NEO1973

[Shu Hung (Koala)]

Hello,

Is there any information on the actual release date of NEO1973?
I can find no purchase nor release information on the internet.
I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of guy looking for it.

Thanks,
Koala
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