Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20

[Sami Salih]

Owen,

Its also absurd and clear inconsistency to attack the board, I don't know if 
you don't like the current board composition or the role of the AFRINIC board ? 
in all cases we should respect the board and respect our chair simply because 
they are elected to volunteer somethings good to the community, if any one or 
group believe the opposite he/they can free to nominate/support
good representatives during election period, any disturbance in-between can't 
considered in meant well way!

For the point (4) I think we agreed on the base logic.

Point (5) no comments may others can contribute

Its again absurd to conclude with "I believe that the current situation 
where the board supervises the nomcom is correct, but needs some 
fine-tuning..." while you see the board as problem ?!

I thank you very much for admitting that "needs some fine-tuning" please apply 
this to all what we faces in AFRINIC.

Dr. Sami H.O. Salih
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST
Head of R, NTC, SUDAN
President of SDv6TF
T/F: (249)122045707/187171355

From: Owen DeLong 
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 7:32 AM
To: Sami Salih 
Cc: Mark Tinka ; community-discuss@afrinic.net 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC 
Open Mic Session on June 20



On Jul 24, 2019, at 00:41 , Sami Salih 
mailto:sami.sa...@outlook.com>> wrote:

Thank you Internet Society’s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki,
This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really 
cares about the stability of this continent.

Few points I would like to highlight as follows:

1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues 
instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) 
increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT 
mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the 
methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the 
board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, 
community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship with 
the community.

It is absurd to claim the board can never be viewed as “part of any issue” or 
“part of any problem”.

It is entirely possible for them to be part of the problem and several past 
actions show that they have, in fact, been part of the problem.

If the board was not considered to be part of the problem, there would not have 
been a landslide victory for “none of the above” across the board in the 2018 
board elections.

4) The  legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in such 
details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can 
provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice 
different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist 
can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and maintain 
the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs.

While there is value to having these issues worked by small working groups to 
bring proposals back to the wider community and collect feedback, this should 
be an iterative process and there is absolutely good value in having wide 
community input into the process at various stages.

IMHO, only when a proposal achieves relatively wide support in community 
consultations should it be formalized into motions put before an xGMM.

5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence "  vote on policy 
proposals. ..." cos its not accurate.

That whole paragraph is questionable, actually.

There are specific requirements to participate in the PDP…
1. You must have an email address.
2. You must subscribe to the PDWG mailing list.
3. You must begin participating.

I do not see how this particular set of requirements either enfranchises or 
disenfranchises one of any particular right to “vote”.

6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be 
conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear 
rule and procedure for those sensitive activities.

I think that the board, possibly in consultation with the GC should propose the 
necessary bylaw amendments to correct the identified deficiencies in the 
election process and specifications and also produce a set of procedural 
documents which cover the identified gaps that are not necessarily bylaw 
material, but more operational and procedural in nature.
I do not think that the election process itself should be managed by the GC. I 
believe that the current situation where the board supervises the nomcom is 
correct, but needs some fine-tuning in terms of how the nom-com is managed and 
what its responsibilities are.

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20

[Owen DeLong]

> On Jul 24, 2019, at 00:41 , Sami Salih  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Internet Society’s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki,
> This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really 
> cares about the stability of this continent.
> 
> Few points I would like to highlight as follows:
> 
> 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues 
> instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) 
> increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT 
> mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the 
> methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the 
> board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, 
> community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship 
> with the community.

It is absurd to claim the board can never be viewed as “part of any issue” or 
“part of any problem”.

It is entirely possible for them to be part of the problem and several past 
actions show that they have, in fact, been part of the problem.

If the board was not considered to be part of the problem, there would not have 
been a landslide victory for “none of the above” across the board in the 2018 
board elections.

> 4) The  legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in 
> such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can 
> provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice 
> different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist 
> can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and 
> maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs.

While there is value to having these issues worked by small working groups to 
bring proposals back to the wider community and collect feedback, this should 
be an iterative process and there is absolutely good value in having wide 
community input into the process at various stages.

IMHO, only when a proposal achieves relatively wide support in community 
consultations should it be formalized into motions put before an xGMM.

> 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence "  vote on policy 
> proposals. ..." cos its not accurate.

That whole paragraph is questionable, actually.

There are specific requirements to participate in the PDP…
1.  You must have an email address.
2.  You must subscribe to the PDWG mailing list.
3.  You must begin participating.

I do not see how this particular set of requirements either enfranchises or 
disenfranchises one of any particular right to “vote”.

> 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be 
> conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear 
> rule and procedure for those sensitive activities.

I think that the board, possibly in consultation with the GC should propose the 
necessary bylaw amendments to correct the identified deficiencies in the 
election process and specifications and also produce a set of procedural 
documents which cover the identified gaps that are not necessarily bylaw 
material, but more operational and procedural in nature.
I do not think that the election process itself should be managed by the GC. I 
believe that the current situation where the board supervises the nomcom is 
correct, but needs some fine-tuning in terms of how the nom-com is managed and 
what its responsibilities are.

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20

[DANIEL NANGHAKA]

Dear All,

I have read the report and acknowledge that this is a great report and
provides appropriate action points to be considered.

Kind Regards
Daniel K. Nanghaka
ᐧ

On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 10:42, Sami Salih  wrote:

> Thank you Internet Society’s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki,
> This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who
> really cares about the stability of this continent.
>
> Few points I would like to highlight as follows:
>
> 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues
> instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community)
> increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID
> NOT mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the
> methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by
> the board its self to decide on the information to be share with members,
> community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship
> with the community.
>
> 2) Engagement is always good thing, semi-annual meeting with one of them
> organized with AFNOG and accommodate Af* is what we practices for a while.
> Is this enough or not is not easy to judge by simply take individual views
> in such session. We need to consider that over-engagement will negatively
> affect the organization not only in term of financial cost but also the
> cost of the stability of running the organization, as we need to give
> board, staff etc a peaceful environment to act and innovate. Substantially,
> engagement is a two way process, let us see how we can encourage the other
> parts (than AFRINIC) to initiate engagement initiatives.  ;-)
>
> 3) Enforce the CC is an urgent requirement not only the personal attack
> but other hostile activities against the organization and its stability.
> This is not an easy task, I experienced this during my long term as PDWG
> Co-, with the population of the community and the diversity of individual
> and the groups while taking into consideration the number of contributions
> especially before and after the meeting, its really difficult to moderate
> the list in a way that satisfying the community and reflect a better image
> of the glob. We need to tolerate some and stickily avoid/mitigate/prevent
> or even ban unacceptable locution. This is again a big dilemma as
> continuous monitoring and instant judgement not an easy task to be
> achieved. The better way in my perspective is to count on the community
> maturity to tolerate and ignore bad things posted in an angry moment.
> In this regard, I propose to have a dedicated group or sub-group may be
> under Governance Committee to enforce CC in the mailing list and during the
> meeting and other sessions.
>
> 4) The  legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in
> such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group
> can provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can
> notice different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only
> specialist can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local
> laws and maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs.
>
> 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence "  vote on policy
> proposals. ..." cos its not accurate.
>
> 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be
> conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear
> rule and procedure for those sensitive activities.
>
> Once again I would like to thank Dawit and Michuki for this detailed
> report and their observations and proposals.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> *Sami H.O. Salih, PhD., PMP*®
> Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering,
> Sudan University of Science and Technology,
> sami.sa...@sustech.edu
> --------------
> *From:* Mark Tinka 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:51 AM
> *To:* community-discuss@afrinic.net 
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the
> AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20
>
> Good work, Mich and team!
>
> Mark.
>
> On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote:
>
> Dear Dawit and Michuki
>
> Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find it
> very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. We hope
> all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and act upon it.
>
> Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration.
>
> Cheers
> Noah
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Dawit Bekele* 
> Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM
> Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June
> 20
> To: AfrICANN Co

Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20

[Sami Salih]

Thank you Internet Society’s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki,
This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really 
cares about the stability of this continent.

Few points I would like to highlight as follows:

1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues 
instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) 
increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT 
mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the 
methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the 
board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, 
community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship with 
the community.

2) Engagement is always good thing, semi-annual meeting with one of them 
organized with AFNOG and accommodate Af* is what we practices for a while. Is 
this enough or not is not easy to judge by simply take individual views in such 
session. We need to consider that over-engagement will negatively affect the 
organization not only in term of financial cost but also the cost of the 
stability of running the organization, as we need to give board, staff etc a 
peaceful environment to act and innovate. Substantially, engagement is a two 
way process, let us see how we can encourage the other parts (than AFRINIC) to 
initiate engagement initiatives.  ;-)

3) Enforce the CC is an urgent requirement not only the personal attack but 
other hostile activities against the organization and its stability. This is 
not an easy task, I experienced this during my long term as PDWG Co-, with the 
population of the community and the diversity of individual and the groups 
while taking into consideration the number of contributions especially before 
and after the meeting, its really difficult to moderate the list in a way that 
satisfying the community and reflect a better image of the glob. We need to 
tolerate some and stickily avoid/mitigate/prevent or even ban unacceptable 
locution. This is again a big dilemma as continuous monitoring and instant 
judgement not an easy task to be achieved. The better way in my perspective is 
to count on the community maturity to tolerate and ignore bad things posted in 
an angry moment.
In this regard, I propose to have a dedicated group or sub-group may be under 
Governance Committee to enforce CC in the mailing list and during the meeting 
and other sessions.

4) The  legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in such 
details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can 
provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice 
different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist 
can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and maintain 
the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs.

5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence "  vote on policy 
proposals. ..." cos its not accurate.

6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be 
conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear 
rule and procedure for those sensitive activities.

Once again I would like to thank Dawit and Michuki for this detailed report and 
their observations and proposals.

Regards,


Sami H.O. Salih, PhD., PMP®
Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering,
Sudan University of Science and Technology,
sami.sa...@sustech.edu

From: Mark Tinka 
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:51 AM
To: community-discuss@afrinic.net 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC 
Open Mic Session on June 20

Good work, Mich and team!

Mark.

On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote:
Dear Dawit and Michuki

Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find it very 
accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. We hope all 
stakeholders will consider the content of the report and act upon it.

Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration.

Cheers
Noah

-- Forwarded message -
From: Dawit Bekele mailto:bek...@isoc.org>>
Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM
Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20
To: AfrICANN Community List mailto:afric...@afrinic.net>>



Hi all,

As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate the open 
mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the request and 
moderated the meeting as best as we could. With some delay, we have prepared a 
report of the meeting that we would like to share here (attached). We focused 
on reporting on the issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the 
discussion.

Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections 
before submitting a final version.

Thank you,

Dawit Bekele and Mi

Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20

[Mark Tinka]

Good work, Mich and team!

Mark.

On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote:
> Dear Dawit and Michuki
>
> Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find
> it very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations.
> We hope all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and
> act upon it.
>
> Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration.
>
> Cheers
> Noah
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Dawit Bekele* mailto:bek...@isoc.org>>
> Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM
> Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on
> June 20
> To: AfrICANN Community List  >
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate
> the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We
> accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could.
> With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we
> would like to share here (attached). We focused on reporting on the
> issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion.
>
> Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make
> corrections before submitting a final version.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi
>
> Internet Society
>
> African Regional Bureau
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ___
> AfrICANN mailing list
> afric...@afrinic.net 
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann

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