Re: [computer-go] 19x19 Go, scalability with time vs handicap

2007-04-22 Thread Sylvain Gelly

Hello Daniel,

With the addition of fuseki and joseki library will its rating increase?

Especially a fuseki library. Will a fuseki library be consistent with its
playing style?


That is an interesting and not trivial question. The problem is that the
player has somewhere to understand the opening not to destroy it after. The
problem is not that MoGo is playing some strange moves, it is that it is
happy with them :-).

For human players a difference of 2 kyu means that the winning ratio of the

stronger player is almost 100%.


Is it? Do you have some statistics? If so, that is interesting, because that
means that neither MoGo nor GnuGo exploit well (comparing to humans) the
handicap stones (see results of handicaps with settings which make them even
at H0).



My feeling is that it's going to take more than double of speed for MoGo
to reach 3kyu.


Actually my goal was not to argue about how to reach some rating, but what
happens when giving more time against a fixed player with handicap. Also, I
feel like the KGS rating is not well adapted to bots rating, because of the
inertia. Bots are playing so many games a week that once they reach one
stable rating, the rating will change very slowly.
Also, strange results happen in MoGo vs human games: white almost always
wins! That means the stronger player, no matter the handicap, manages to win
the game. That is quite asymetrical. BTW it was one of the reason I launch
those experiments, expecting asymetrical results when playing black or white
with handicap. This did not appears in those experiments.

Sylvain
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Re: [computer-go] 19x19 Go, scalability with time vs handicap

2007-04-22 Thread alain Baeckeroot
Le dimanche 22 avril 2007 22:26, Sylvain Gelly a écrit :
 Hello Daniel,

  Le dimanche 22 avril 2007 21:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
  For human players a difference of 2 kyu means that the winning ratio of the
  stronger player is almost 100%.
 
 Is it? Do you have some statistics? If so, that is interesting, because that
 means that neither MoGo nor GnuGo exploit well (comparing to humans) the
 handicap stones (see results of handicaps with settings which make them even
 at H0).

For kyu players 2 handicap does not mean very much.
For dan players the difference becomes more significant.
Nice stats on even game
http://gemma.ujf.cas.cz/~cieply/GO/statev.html

For pro i have been told that Lee Chang Ho is 2 points stronger than one of
his favorite partner but has more than 70% victory, and he considers improving
his game play by 2 points a workload for one life :)

Alain
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