Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Olsson wrote: Can Go be used to increase a person's aptitude. Their aptitude for playing Go ? Certainly. Their aptitude for doing anything else - now that's a much more difficult question. And much more interesting. My suspicion would be that if you tested carefully in a population of novice players and then in the same people later, after they'd reached significant playing strength, then you'd find statistically significant changes in some cognitive abilities. What those changes are might well be a valid consideration for designing computer Go systems, making the discussion relevant here. I'm not a psychologist to give formal names to those cognitive abilities, but they'd involve the ability to carry and work with multiple simultaneous hypotheses, to maintain parallel streams of rather similar data (game sequences for evaluation) ... but in addition to such precision abilities are also broader creative or synthetic abilities, where a player can conceive of the general thrust of a solution (how do I invade that side?), but the details get worked out later as the situation clarifies. Certainly these aptitudes are of wider applicability than to games. But interviewers have known that for a long time, which is why they ask applicants to talk about their interests outside the job (or studentship) that they're applying for. -- Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:10 GMT, but posted later. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
Another question that I would like to ask is what distinguishes a student at Harvard or at a top school from the rest of the students. And how can one develop the aptitude to reach that level. Or is it just that some people are born with a gift. Eduardo Sabbatella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the same IQ than Kasparov, He is millionarie and famous and I'm a moron that have to spend almost all his day coding for food. This is a good proof that IQ tests do not work :-P --- Aidan Karley escribió: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Olsson wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. If one is going to discuss the extremely slippy concept of intelligence (or it's far, far slippier distant relative Intelligence Quotient), then it's practically required to have read Stephen Jay Gould's Mismeasure of Man (various editions from about 1980 to at least 1996, including ISBN-10: 0393314251 / ISBN-13: 978-0393314250). While it may not blow out of the water the whole subject of intelligence testing, it does make one very well aware that the whole subject is a minefield of assumptions and prejudices (both conscious and unconscious. I read what was probably the original edition back in the mid-80s, and loaned my copy to a university friend who was studying psychology ; 15 year later she declined to return it because she was still regularly using it to deflate novice opinionated staff working under her with the learning impaired. That would have been about the time of the infamously neo-racist tract The Bell Curve. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. About 2.3 standard deviations above the norm. That would imply he's in the top 1½% or thereabouts of the population in performance on IQ tests. Sounds like there's be 3 Kasparov-equivalents per couple of full Clapham Omnibuses. [Note 1] Or several per average chess club. Or maybe IQ test results are not a terribly good predictor of chess strength. I wouldn't really expect it to be much better a predictor of Go strength either. For what it's worth, the Aberdeen University Go Club was set up in the early 1980s by ... a carpenter. Always a good memory for deflating one's potential to self-aggrandisment. [Note 1] Standard British English idiom refers many questions to the opinion of the man on the Clapham Omnibus, which seats about 75 people and stands another couple of dozen. -- Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:40 GMT, but posted later. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ - Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
Can Go be used to increase a person's aptitude. Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Getting way off topic now. On 1/16/07, Mike Olsson wrote: Another question that I would like to ask is what distinguishes a student at Harvard or at a top school from the rest of the students. And how can one develop the aptitude to reach that level. Or is it just that some people are born with a gift. Eduardo Sabbatella wrote: I have the same IQ than Kasparov, He is millionarie and famous and I'm a moron that have to spend almost all his day coding for food. This is a good proof that IQ tests do not work :-P --- Aidan Karley escribió: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Olsson wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. If one is going to discuss the extremely slippy concept of intelligence (or it's far, far slippier distant relative Intelligence Quotient), then it's practically required to have read Stephen Jay Gould's Mismeasure of Man (various editions from about 1980 to at least 1996, including ISBN-10: 0393314251 / ISBN-13: 978-0393314250). While it may not blow out of the water the whole subject of intelligence testing, it does make one very well aware that the whole subject is a minefield of assumptions and prejudices (both conscious and unconscious. I read what was probably the original edition back in the mid-80s, and loaned my copy to a university friend who was studying psychology ; 15 year later she declined to return it because she was still regularly using it to deflate novice opinionated staff working under her with the learning impaired. That would have been about the time of the infamously neo-racist tract The Bell Curve. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. About 2.3 standard deviations above the norm. That would imply he's in the top 1½% or thereabouts of the population in performance on IQ tests. Sounds like there's be 3 Kasparov-equivalents per couple of full Clapham Omnibuses. [Note 1] Or several per average chess club. Or maybe IQ test results are not a terribly good predictor of chess strength. I wouldn't really expect it to be much better a predictor of Go strength either. For what it's worth, the Aberdeen University Go Club was set up in the early 1980s by ... a carpenter. Always a good memory for deflating one's potential to self-aggrandisment. [Note 1] Standard British English idiom refers many questions to the opinion of the man on the Clapham Omnibus, which seats about 75 people and stands another couple of dozen. -- Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:40 GMT, but posted later. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ - Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Olsson wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. If one is going to discuss the extremely slippy concept of intelligence (or it's far, far slippier distant relative Intelligence Quotient), then it's practically required to have read Stephen Jay Gould's Mismeasure of Man (various editions from about 1980 to at least 1996, including ISBN-10: 0393314251 / ISBN-13: 978-0393314250). While it may not blow out of the water the whole subject of intelligence testing, it does make one very well aware that the whole subject is a minefield of assumptions and prejudices (both conscious and unconscious. I read what was probably the original edition back in the mid-80s, and loaned my copy to a university friend who was studying psychology ; 15 year later she declined to return it because she was still regularly using it to deflate novice opinionated staff working under her with the learning impaired. That would have been about the time of the infamously neo-racist tract The Bell Curve. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. About 2.3 standard deviations above the norm. That would imply he's in the top 1½% or thereabouts of the population in performance on IQ tests. Sounds like there's be 3 Kasparov-equivalents per couple of full Clapham Omnibuses. [Note 1] Or several per average chess club. Or maybe IQ test results are not a terribly good predictor of chess strength. I wouldn't really expect it to be much better a predictor of Go strength either. For what it's worth, the Aberdeen University Go Club was set up in the early 1980s by ... a carpenter. Always a good memory for deflating one's potential to self-aggrandisment. [Note 1] Standard British English idiom refers many questions to the opinion of the man on the Clapham Omnibus, which seats about 75 people and stands another couple of dozen. -- Aidan Karley, Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:40 GMT, but posted later. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Go and IQ training
This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. Also, are there any other games or methods that one can use to improve their IQ. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. - Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA.___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. But Kasparov started at 60. s. TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
The problem is: how do you check? You'd need twins and have one of them play Go or Chess. I even don't know if the intelligence of twins is the same from the start. When at university there were two identical twins in the same year. With identical I mean, really identical. They were inseparable, always wore the same clothes and hardly socialised. Still, one of them consistently got half a grade less than the other. I think the question of intelligence (which as noted by others is not the same as IQ) being determined by nature or nurture is still unanswered. The answer is probably somewhere in between, but it's not clear where and what determines it. Mark On 14-jan-07, at 18:28, Mike Olsson wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. Also, are there any other games or methods that one can use to improve their IQ. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Go and IQ training
Thanks to everyone who replied. There is a paper that outlines the difference between Chess and Go. http://users.eniinternet.com/bradleym/Compare.html Are there any places on the internet where methods and techniques for improving intelligence are discussed. I tried many search queries, but I was unable to find too many. Also, from my understanding the deeper a game is the more beneficial it is to challenging the brain. Mark Boon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is: how do you check? You'd need twins and have one of them play Go or Chess. I even don't know if the intelligence of twins is the same from the start. When at university there were two identical twins in the same year. With identical I mean, really identical. They were inseparable, always wore the same clothes and hardly socialised. Still, one of them consistently got half a grade less than the other. I think the question of intelligence (which as noted by others is not the same as IQ) being determined by nature or nurture is still unanswered. The answer is probably somewhere in between, but it's not clear where and what determines it. Mark On 14-jan-07, at 18:28, Mike Olsson wrote: This is a bit off topic, but I am wondering if a person can play Go to increase their IQ or improve their intelligence. Also, are there any other games or methods that one can use to improve their IQ. From what I have read Kasparov's IQ is around 135 so playing Chess doesn't really increase a person's IQ. - Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ - Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
