Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
2007/6/15, Magnus Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If this line is correct then it was Steenvreeter that played a bad move at 51, but Mogo failed to take advantage of this subtle mistake and lost with move 52. Now of course this line is not correct either because after 50 black A6 H4! H5 J3 F9 B8! E9 A9 A8 C9 C6 A9 and white wins with at least 1.5 points. Indeed. If the upper left corner is alive, H4 is the way to go. So Steenvriter was losing until Mogo played 52. This suggests that black should continue the ko fight with 47 at G2, I think. One possible continuation is: 46 G2 C6 C5 G3 J2 A6 B5 G2 H4 A5 J1 This seems to be a seki but white wins? Is there better play for black? -- Seo Sanghyeon ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
This is my analysis. It may be flawed but I hope it has some value. It would be very interesting to see what mogo thinks on those variations. Best Regards, Lukasz On 6/14/07, Sylvain Gelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Sanghyeon, thank you for your comments. After white (mogo) H2, MoGo was estimating 74%, and expecting: H2 G1 H3 B1 A1 B3 H1 F8 B5 H4 This is far too optimistic. Why would black play H2? :-) Sorry, white played H2. The sequence I gave starts with white move :). Black was expecting to play G1 :). Black played H3, and estimation increased to 81%, white B3 and expecting: B3 B1 A1 B4 C5 C4 A3 C6 B6 B5 After B3 B1 A1, black G1 and then B1 F1 D1 B4 and white is dead. Ok thanks. So good white actually played G1 instead of A1 after black B1 then. Actually during pondering MoGo realized that it was lost then, because black played the expected move (B1), but the estimation was then 50%. MoGo realized too. Actually G1 is an interesting move. After white 48, all groups on the board is alive and white actually wins by my counting. So I think that white 50 is a losing move. Oh, so contrary to what I believed, you say (if I understand you correctly) that the mistake was done in the upper left group and not in the bottom center group? Thank you, Sylvain ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ tour_169-round_9-game_2-analysis.sgf Description: Binary data ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
Hello all, thank you all for all your precise comments. It becomes pretty complicated and technical for me, I'll try to find out everything :). Bye, Sylvain 2007/6/15, Łukasz Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is my analysis. It may be flawed but I hope it has some value. It would be very interesting to see what mogo thinks on those variations. Best Regards, Lukasz On 6/14/07, Sylvain Gelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Sanghyeon, thank you for your comments. After white (mogo) H2, MoGo was estimating 74%, and expecting: H2 G1 H3 B1 A1 B3 H1 F8 B5 H4 This is far too optimistic. Why would black play H2? :-) Sorry, white played H2. The sequence I gave starts with white move :). Black was expecting to play G1 :). Black played H3, and estimation increased to 81%, white B3 and expecting: B3 B1 A1 B4 C5 C4 A3 C6 B6 B5 After B3 B1 A1, black G1 and then B1 F1 D1 B4 and white is dead. Ok thanks. So good white actually played G1 instead of A1 after black B1 then. Actually during pondering MoGo realized that it was lost then, because black played the expected move (B1), but the estimation was then 50%. MoGo realized too. Actually G1 is an interesting move. After white 48, all groups on the board is alive and white actually wins by my counting. So I think that white 50 is a losing move. Oh, so contrary to what I believed, you say (if I understand you correctly) that the mistake was done in the upper left group and not in the bottom center group? Thank you, Sylvain ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
The game: http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/round.php?tournament=169round=9id=2 Sylvain posted some anaylsis from MoGo side. Following are my comments (KGS 4k) as I understand the situation: After white (mogo) H2, MoGo was estimating 74%, and expecting: H2 G1 H3 B1 A1 B3 H1 F8 B5 H4 This is far too optimistic. Why would black play H2? :-) Black played H3, and estimation increased to 81%, white B3 and expecting: B3 B1 A1 B4 C5 C4 A3 C6 B6 B5 After B3 B1 A1, black G1 and then B1 F1 D1 B4 and white is dead. Actually during pondering MoGo realized that it was lost then, because black played the expected move (B1), but the estimation was then 50%. MoGo realized too. Actually G1 is an interesting move. After white 48, all groups on the board is alive and white actually wins by my counting. So I think that white 50 is a losing move. However I wonder where was the mistake: H2, B3 or much before, i.e. already before H2 white was dead? I can't comment on this. Can someone? I think 6 moves before H2, white would have been better playing G2 before B2, but white wasn't losing even till the end as far as I can tell. -- Seo Sanghyeon ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
Hello Sanghyeon, thank you for your comments. After white (mogo) H2, MoGo was estimating 74%, and expecting: H2 G1 H3 B1 A1 B3 H1 F8 B5 H4 This is far too optimistic. Why would black play H2? :-) Sorry, white played H2. The sequence I gave starts with white move :). Black was expecting to play G1 :). Black played H3, and estimation increased to 81%, white B3 and expecting: B3 B1 A1 B4 C5 C4 A3 C6 B6 B5 After B3 B1 A1, black G1 and then B1 F1 D1 B4 and white is dead. Ok thanks. So good white actually played G1 instead of A1 after black B1 then. Actually during pondering MoGo realized that it was lost then, because black played the expected move (B1), but the estimation was then 50%. MoGo realized too. Actually G1 is an interesting move. After white 48, all groups on the board is alive and white actually wins by my counting. So I think that white 50 is a losing move. Oh, so contrary to what I believed, you say (if I understand you correctly) that the mistake was done in the upper left group and not in the bottom center group? Thank you, Sylvain ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
The game: http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/round.php?tournament=169round=9id=2 Sylvain posted some anaylsis from MoGo side. Following are my comments (KGS 4k) as I understand the situation: After white (mogo) H2, MoGo was estimating 74%, and expecting: H2 G1 H3 B1 A1 B3 H1 F8 B5 H4 This is far too optimistic. Why would black play H2? :-) I think that should have read, Why would black play G1?!. Beyond that, the only thing I've concluded so far (this *is* a complex position) is that white H2 was the only choice at that point. White seems to die quickly in the alternative moves I looked at (G1, H3, B3), and the white chain in the middle is too big to sacrifice. However I wonder where was the mistake: H2, B3 or much before, i.e. already before H2 white was dead? I prefer white 30 at G2 instead of C1, which seems to go well for white. (if black H3-ish then white C1; if black C1 then white G4; did I miss something?) Darren ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] ICGA 2007 MoGo-Steenvreter
So I think that white 50 is a losing move. I have another opinion. After 50, F9 A6 A5 C6 B5 D1 C9 B1 E9 A2 D8 A4 C9 C4 Sil ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
