Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
Since I'm on a Mac ("It'll be beautiful, but we're not giving it to
you until it's good and ready!"), I'm still using Java 5.
Peter Drake
http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/
On May 25, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Brian Slesinsky wrote:
Have you noticed a difference between Java 5 and 6? I've heard some
programs get a nice boost.
- Brian
On 5/25/07, Peter Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For what it's worth, I'm getting over 25k playouts per second in
Java on my
4-core 3GHz machine using Orego.
Single easiest improvement: use the -server command line option to
Java.
This turns on the just-in-time compiler, roughly doubling speed.
Peter Drake
http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/
On May 25, 2007, at 9:09 AM, Eduardo Sabbatella wrote:
I will try to do my best. :)
Selection algorithm in MC is the part you want
improve. If you do that in Python, it will be slow.
Also, its the part of your code that will be more
prune to memory leaks, and errors. because of fast
prototyping and changes.
I have found that Java is good enough for
prototyping... You can simulate up to 2-5k games per
second (depends on your selection algorithm / cpu /
etc).
Simulating 75k/100k per move is a good balance between
move quality and resources spent. It only takes 15-30
secs.
Eduardo
--- Steven Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;)
I think using the ease of python to get started with
algorithms and then
later pushing the performance critical sections to C
and wrapping with SWIG
is a great idea.
On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java
Go
engine including a nice and elegant set of go base
classes.
--- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's
written
in pure python?
Thanks,
George
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Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
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Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
Have you noticed a difference between Java 5 and 6? I've heard some programs get a nice boost. - Brian On 5/25/07, Peter Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For what it's worth, I'm getting over 25k playouts per second in Java on my 4-core 3GHz machine using Orego. Single easiest improvement: use the -server command line option to Java. This turns on the just-in-time compiler, roughly doubling speed. Peter Drake http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ On May 25, 2007, at 9:09 AM, Eduardo Sabbatella wrote: I will try to do my best. :) Selection algorithm in MC is the part you want improve. If you do that in Python, it will be slow. Also, its the part of your code that will be more prune to memory leaks, and errors. because of fast prototyping and changes. I have found that Java is good enough for prototyping... You can simulate up to 2-5k games per second (depends on your selection algorithm / cpu / etc). Simulating 75k/100k per move is a good balance between move quality and resources spent. It only takes 15-30 secs. Eduardo --- Steven Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) I think using the ease of python to get started with algorithms and then later pushing the performance critical sections to C and wrapping with SWIG is a great idea. On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go engine including a nice and elegant set of go base classes. --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written in pure python? Thanks, George ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
>From the www page, this python effort actually does use Lukasz' libraries for >efficiency. From: Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't believe this is a truly workable model. It's often stated as a fundamental working model (especially for language advocates of tcl, ruby, python, etc.) but in practice I have found it difficult at best. At least if your are looking for a high performance program. It's a nice way to get a little performance without too much work - but it's usually far from optimal. I think a better model, if you want to write a program in Python or some other high level interpreted language, is to build a core set of low level routines that are really efficient for C (or assembly.) Then as you add higher level stuff you can decide whether to code in C or Python.In other words, you fundamentally have an underlying C coded program, not the other way around. The data structures are designed to be fast and efficient.Something like that might be possible with Lukasz library for instance. Most libraries that Python and other high level languages use started out as C libraries and were wrapped up to be used with high level languages. But if you know in advance that you are going to do this, you can probably do a nicer job making it work well as a package for that language. It would be fun designing a low level library. Each person might implement it differently and you might find that one library does some things better than another library and you would experiment to find the one that worked best with your own program. - Don On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 11:33 -0400, Steven Clark wrote: > We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) > > I think using the ease of python to get started with algorithms and > then later pushing the performance critical sections to C and wrapping > with SWIG is a great idea. > > On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go > engine including a nice and elegant set of go base > classes. > > --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written > > in pure python? > > > > Thanks, > > George > > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > __ > Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. > Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). > ¡Probalo ya! > http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
For what it's worth, I'm getting over 25k playouts per second in Java on my 4-core 3GHz machine using Orego. Single easiest improvement: use the -server command line option to Java. This turns on the just-in-time compiler, roughly doubling speed. Peter Drake http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ On May 25, 2007, at 9:09 AM, Eduardo Sabbatella wrote: I will try to do my best. :) Selection algorithm in MC is the part you want improve. If you do that in Python, it will be slow. Also, its the part of your code that will be more prune to memory leaks, and errors. because of fast prototyping and changes. I have found that Java is good enough for prototyping... You can simulate up to 2-5k games per second (depends on your selection algorithm / cpu / etc). Simulating 75k/100k per move is a good balance between move quality and resources spent. It only takes 15-30 secs. Eduardo --- Steven Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) I think using the ease of python to get started with algorithms and then later pushing the performance critical sections to C and wrapping with SWIG is a great idea. On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go engine including a nice and elegant set of go base classes. --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written in pure python? Thanks, George ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
I don't believe this is a truly workable model. It's often stated as a fundamental working model (especially for language advocates of tcl, ruby, python, etc.) but in practice I have found it difficult at best. At least if your are looking for a high performance program. It's a nice way to get a little performance without too much work - but it's usually far from optimal. I think a better model, if you want to write a program in Python or some other high level interpreted language, is to build a core set of low level routines that are really efficient for C (or assembly.) Then as you add higher level stuff you can decide whether to code in C or Python.In other words, you fundamentally have an underlying C coded program, not the other way around. The data structures are designed to be fast and efficient.Something like that might be possible with Lukasz library for instance. Most libraries that Python and other high level languages use started out as C libraries and were wrapped up to be used with high level languages. But if you know in advance that you are going to do this, you can probably do a nicer job making it work well as a package for that language. It would be fun designing a low level library. Each person might implement it differently and you might find that one library does some things better than another library and you would experiment to find the one that worked best with your own program. - Don On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 11:33 -0400, Steven Clark wrote: > We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) > > I think using the ease of python to get started with algorithms and > then later pushing the performance critical sections to C and wrapping > with SWIG is a great idea. > > On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go > engine including a nice and elegant set of go base > classes. > > --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written > > in pure python? > > > > Thanks, > > George > > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > __ > Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. > Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). > ¡Probalo ya! > http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
I will try to do my best. :) Selection algorithm in MC is the part you want improve. If you do that in Python, it will be slow. Also, its the part of your code that will be more prune to memory leaks, and errors. because of fast prototyping and changes. I have found that Java is good enough for prototyping... You can simulate up to 2-5k games per second (depends on your selection algorithm / cpu / etc). Simulating 75k/100k per move is a good balance between move quality and resources spent. It only takes 15-30 secs. Eduardo --- Steven Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) > > I think using the ease of python to get started with > algorithms and then > later pushing the performance critical sections to C > and wrapping with SWIG > is a great idea. > > On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java > Go > > engine including a nice and elegant set of go base > > classes. > > > > --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > > > > > Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's > written > > > in pure python? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > George > > > > > ___ > > > computer-go mailing list > > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > > > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > > > > > > __ > > Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. > > Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > > está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). > > ¡Probalo ya! > > http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas > > > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
We'll be the judges of that nice&elegant bit ;) I think using the ease of python to get started with algorithms and then later pushing the performance critical sections to C and wrapping with SWIG is a great idea. On 5/25/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go engine including a nice and elegant set of go base classes. --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written > in pure python? > > Thanks, > George > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
No, but soon I will publish to the public a Java Go engine including a nice and elegant set of go base classes. --- George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written > in pure python? > > Thanks, > George > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
From: George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written in pure python? http://senseis.xmp.net/?SimpleGo - early versions appear to have been pure python. later versions use a mix of python and c for the monte carlo bits where performance matters. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
If I remember right, the original SimpleBot by Aloril was in python. There was also a spin off called PyBot. Cheating and looking at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/names.html, I believe the spin off was by Deren Dohoda... who also helped with SimpleBot. The two bots probably represented different directions of bot development. On 5/24/07, George Dahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written in pure python? Thanks, George ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] open source Go AI's written in pure python
Does anyone know of any open source Go AI's written in pure python? Thanks, George ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
