Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
At 12:08 AM 8/30/2008, Eric S. Sande wrote: The phone wiring in your house is a common loop, which is phone company jargon for the same electrical connection to all the outlets (phone jacks). If that loop is compromised then none of it works. That compromise may be in the loop wiring, or it may be in one of the devices attached to the loop. Betty, have you tried disconnecting / replacing each of the devices [temporarily] to see if the trouble clears? Fred Holmes * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Inside wiring issues belong to the subscriber. I note that many folks have Verzion inside wiring maintenance plans meaning they actually belong to Verizon. I also repeat, that the direct run to the modem with the splitter filter is incredibly easier to troubleshoot. I didn't make this rule, the courts and the FCC did. I'll fix it if you pay me to. I have to go now, Tom has just advised me that he's running for President and he wants me for his chief of wires and tubes. Well I guess he's left you in charge of outdated things, besides Ma Bell never did use wire and tube, so maybe he's going to give you control of TVA. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Art Clemons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inside wiring issues belong to the subscriber. I note that many folks have Verzion inside wiring maintenance plans meaning they actually belong to Verizon. I also repeat, that the direct run to the modem with the splitter filter is incredibly easier to troubleshoot. Ah no. That only means that they agreed to buy the insurance that Verizon offers on their inside wiring. The best part of this insurance is that you only need to wait a month after signing up for them to treat a preexisting condition for the cost of the insurance. DirecTV offers a similar deal. If you can tolerate a problem for a month then you can get off cheaper than the more expensive immediate treatment. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Is there a box that splits the RJ-11 to RJ-45 for data? I've done ethernet networks but don't know about the hardware for telephone data lines. Thanks, Betty Your last question makes me think that you don't exactly understand the virutes of DSL... Voice and Data travel over the same twister pair (two wires twisted together). Your DSL modem (one RJ-11 telco jack, and one RJ-45 ethernet jack) modulates the data signals to a frequency that is not used for voice calls. This allows you to move your DSL modem around the house to any phone jack! This method requires a filter at each of the older phones so you won't hear that 'data transmitting' sound during your voice calls. I recently discoverd that the newer office phones already have filters built into them! Maybe even some of the newer consumer grade phones will have this as well. Anyhow, there is no box as you mentioned... the wires are just merged on screw terminals at the demark point. In my house, I routed the two wires into my house (humidity controlled) and split them on a board on the wall. I replaced my old 12 guage phone wires with modern 22 guage multi line wire paired with one or two Cat5 cables and one or two coax cables to each wall jack. Each phone jack has it's own wire from this point, so if a phone malfunctions and disables my service, then I can go to this one board, unplug all the phones, then add them back until I find the culprit. (You mentioned your phone service was down.. did you try unplugging all your phones, then plugging just one in?) There are other advantages with this configuration. If I go back to DSL, I can isolate the DSL line and use only one filter for the entire house. My 16 port ethernet switch is right there too. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Eric S. Sande: The DSL signal rides on top of the normal analog voice bandwidth signalling on a norrmal T0 telephone line. It is sufficent to use a filter to attenuate that signalling noise at individual phone sets to allow normal analog voice (or modem) communication without noise. This is why we use the individual jack/filter strategy. It is easier for the user and it is cheaper for the provider. This strategy basically means the whole subscriber loop (all of your home telephone jacks) are DSL hot. That unfortunately also is the greatest source of problems for DSL users. I'ld personally suggest a splitter/filter at the interface between the phone company and the customer, and running a homerun from the DSL port on the splitter to where the DSL modem or modem/router will be. It also means that if problems develop like for example slow DSL speeds, the customer can do most of the troubleshooting just by first unplugging the run to phones and seeing if the DSL starts working. If there is noise on the phone section, suspect the filter/splitter doesn't work. The plus side of this is that no rewiring is necessary other than plugging in the filter, the phone, and the router. The negative is that all of your phone stations also have to be filtered individually. But it leaves a major trouble shooting headache if anything goes wrong. I'm not in the business, but I constantly see folks with filters on every phone who can't successfully troubleshoot, which leaves a major headache for the tech who has to come out. I don't really think it's cheaper to filter every line. But it's easy. George W. Bush could set this up. But could he fix it? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
But could he fix it? Inside wiring issues belong to the subscriber. I didn't make this rule, the courts and the FCC did. I'll fix it if you pay me to. I have to go now, Tom has just advised me that he's running for President and he wants me for his chief of wires and tubes. Call my secretary for an appointment, hit 1 for wires and 2 for tubes. Don't expect a callback, I'll be with my staff investigatimg telecommunications opportunities in the Comoros Islands. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
What I need to do is split the phone line as it comes into the house. One cable will be filtered and go to main telephones, the other cable will be for data--this is before it gets to the modem/router. Is the box I need called a DSL splitter? DSL junction box? It will be located in a crawl space and should need no maintenance once it's installed. No. It doesn't work that way. The DSL signal rides on top of the normal analog voice bandwidth signalling on a norrmal T0 telephone line. It is sufficent to use a filter to attenuate that signalling noise at individual phone sets to allow normal analog voice (or modem) communication without noise. This is why we use the individual jack/filter strategy. It is easier for the user and it is cheaper for the provider. This strategy basically means the whole subscriber loop (all of your home telephone jacks) are DSL hot. The plus side of this is that no rewiring is necessary other than plugging in the filter, the phone, and the router. The negative is that all of your phone stations also have to be filtered individually. But it's easy. George W. Bush could set this up. A typical DSL install kit includes four inline filters, one wall set filter, a wireless capable four-port Westell router, and a CD with software. That is the standard issue hardware. It works. It's reliable. It's almost double a T1 speed (3 mbps) at $30.00 a month. It doesn't suck, but it's not where we want to be. Where we want to be, and we're going there, is gigabit speeds over fiber. I all ready do this for those who are willing to pay for me to build out my infrastructure, guess who they are. The people with deep pockets. If you want the bandwidth, I can deliver it. I'll sell you a Toyota (good car, reliable) or a Mercedes (upscale) or a Ferrari if you want it and can pay for it. If you think I am going to charge less than people are willing to pay then you must be some kind of a socialist :-). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Each profession has its own private language. That's right and we use it to keep people like you in your place. Asking for the part designation is like asking a Mason about their secret signs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
The phone wiring in your house is a common loop, which is phone company jargon for the same electrical connection to all the outlets (phone jacks). If that loop is compromised then none of it works. Finding the short should not be all that hard. 1) Make a diagram of your house showing the phone jack locations. 2) Connect the jacks in the diagram with a line showing the way the wire goes. Hopefully you can see some or all of the wires in the house. Guess when you have to. 3) Connect a phone to the jack closest to the telephone wire entry point. 4) Unscrew that jack fron the wall and disconnect the wire that runs to the rest of the jacks. If the phone works you know the problem is inward. 5) If inward, reconnect the phone wire. Go to a midway point and do the wire disconnect again. Check the phone you connected at step #3. Proceed with binary search until the bad segment is found. Of course I will likely be taken out and shot for pointing this out, but, hey, those are the rules. Tips like this are what makes this list so valuable. P.S. My phones are all home run wired to a central punch down block. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Is there a box that splits the RJ-11 to RJ-45 for data? I've done ethernet networks but don't know about the hardware for telephone data lines. Your last question makes me think that you don't exactly understand the virutes of DSL... Actually, I do know a lot about DSL. I just don't know the names of the devices that are used with it. They're just different kinds of boxes, junctions, splitters with funny names. I've been doing my own phone and electrical wiring for 30 years, except I usually have to look up or ask to find the exact names of the parts I need--I know what they look like, and how to install them. Each profession has its own private language. Telco has its own, to. What I need to do is split the phone line as it comes into the house. One cable will be filtered and go to main telephones, the other cable will be for data--this is before it gets to the modem/router. Is the box I need called a DSL splitter? DSL junction box? It will be located in a crawl space and should need no maintenance once it's installed. I see a Siecor INI splitter, Wilcom splitter, Suttle DSL POTS splitter, RCA POTS splitter, so far, not in vendors around here, but I haven't called any place yet, only searched online. Is there a basic device like this that I can buy locally in Delaware or Maryland? Who carries these? Or should I ask the guy in the Verizon van next time I see it? Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
I would have to agree with Eric's first approach. That approach served my family well prior to the fios install. Phone line ---filter--house phones | |--DSL Modemethernet Kind Regards, John Mealey -Original Message- From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eric S. Sande Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:07 AM To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring What parts do we need? What's the best method for wiring that doesn't require spending all day in a black widow spider infested crawl space? Two approaches here. One is put a filter at the metwork interface (where the phone line comes into the house) and rig dedicated DSL loops off the unfiltered side. Second approach is to just plug in a filter at each phone outlet and run the phones off the filtered side and DSL off the unfiltered side. The second method is easier but if you know you have a short fix that first. What leads you to believe you have a short, the phones will either not work or be intermittent under that condition... Cable cat won't matter to any appreciable degree. It's just twisted pair copper. You may want to check polarity at your jacks, Radio Shack sells a polarity tester for less than $15. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 8/26/2008 7:09 PM * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Phone line ---filter--house phones | |--DSL Modemethernet Definitely easiest in the long run. I just used one of the supplied filters, cutting the wires apart so they could be used in a punch down block. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
I'd like to ramp up the technical question a bit. We already have DSL coming into the house (firewall, antivirus, etc., are already installed) with 2 Windows XP desktops plugged into the modem. Are there any technical considerations in taking the existing system wireless beyond slapping a wireless router on the end of the modem that need to be addressed? Dan * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Yeah security. Turn on security when you add wireless mode. Stewart At 09:05 AM 8/27/2008, you wrote: I'd like to ramp up the technical question a bit. We already have DSL coming into the house (firewall, antivirus, etc., are already installed) with 2 Windows XP desktops plugged into the modem. Are there any technical considerations in taking the existing system wireless beyond slapping a wireless router on the end of the modem that need to be addressed? Dan Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Good point. Thanks, Rev.! Dan :-) Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/27/2008 10:15 AM Yeah security. Turn on security when you add wireless mode. Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Two approaches here. One is put a filter at the metwork interface (where the phone line comes into the house) and rig dedicated DSL loops off the unfiltered side. What kind of box do I need here? Any photos/illustrations for this? Second approach is to just plug in a filter at each phone outlet and run the phones off the filtered side and DSL off the unfiltered side. That's what we have now. We have two older Macs wired directly to the modem. The rest of Macs and PCs have WiFi. DSL is much faster if I connect the modem to the plug in the box outside, but that's not practical. Our new Panasonic cordless phones are DECT 6.0 and only need one [filtered] outlet for 4 phones. The second method is easier but if you know you have a short fix that first. What leads you to believe you have a short, the phones will either not work or be intermittent under that condition... Verizon tests find a short inside the house. I could pay them the big bucks to come inside, or run the wires myself. Every so often, our service goes out. Verizon tech tells me to disconnect the line in the box outdoors for around 20 minutes, then reconnect to restore service, then it happens again in a few months. Will they charge less than $100 to run new lines inside? I doubt it. Cable cat won't matter to any appreciable degree. It's just twisted pair copper. You may want to check polarity at your jacks, Radio Shack sells a polarity tester for less than $15. Is there a box that splits the RJ-11 to RJ-45 for data? I've done ethernet networks but don't know about the hardware for telephone data lines. Thanks, Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
I would have to agree with Eric's first approach. That approach served my family well prior to the fios install. Phone line ---filter--house phones | |--DSL Modemethernet Is there a box inside to split phone and data? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
The DSL modem will have an RJ-11 jack for the pots line and a RJ-45 jack for the lan side. Typically tyhe RJ-11 jack will say WAN or DSL and the ethernet jack that you use through the house will say 'LAN' for local area network. Might even have a four port switch or something similar built in. As far as a diagram or picture, check the web for 'basic home telephone installation' or something similar. Here is one pic: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.splefty.com/Images/demark. jpgimgrefurl=http://www.splefty.com/blog/technology/h=450w=600sz=137hl= enstart=1um=1usg=__57UPy2-0EBFxI2_gupO3dAj-gOo=tbnid=qcsq529Fk3x-FM:tbn h=101tbnw=135prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtelephone%2Bcompand%2Bdemark%26um%3D1%26hl %3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official% 26sa%3DN in this particular photo, unplugging the jack from the box, breaks the pots circuit and allows you to connect a standard RJ-11 plug to the phone line for testing. See below: There should be a 'DeMark' or telephone speak for the place where you have to pay to get things fixed beyond 'here'. That device will have a 'test' jack that if you unplug the house line from and plug in a standard pots phone is a fairly reliable testif it works you have an 'internal' wiring issue that the phone company is not responsible for, if it does not, then the truck from the phone company should roll for free. Radio shack sells a 1 to 2 RJ-11 spiltter that you could plug in here, and have the filter off of one side to phones, and the other side direct to the DSL modem. I rewired the current house I am in with CAT5 and have not regretted it. (well, OK, I'm human, I only terminated what I needed, the rest is coiled up in the OnQ box, labeled as to cable # and room, but not terminated) Take Care, John * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
Our house has old phone wiring that has a short circuit somewhere between the box and the outlet for the DSL modem. We've decided to replace the wire with new, and have dedicated lines for the computers. Is it better to attach phone and data lines together at the outside box and run each to phones and computers? Or do I take one line from the box and split it inside with another box? I installed the original inside phone lines and they're fine, but the contractor who build our addition put in the data lines attached at the same post in the outside box, and they're only Cat3. I have Cat6 wire to replace them, but want to do a better job than he did; the building construction is excellent, but the builder hates to do wiring in crawl spaces so he took that unfortunate shortcut. What parts do we need? What's the best method for wiring that doesn't require spending all day in a black widow spider infested crawl space? [I don't want to get bitten again!] Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DSL Home Wiring
What parts do we need? What's the best method for wiring that doesn't require spending all day in a black widow spider infested crawl space? Two approaches here. One is put a filter at the metwork interface (where the phone line comes into the house) and rig dedicated DSL loops off the unfiltered side. Second approach is to just plug in a filter at each phone outlet and run the phones off the filtered side and DSL off the unfiltered side. The second method is easier but if you know you have a short fix that first. What leads you to believe you have a short, the phones will either not work or be intermittent under that condition... Cable cat won't matter to any appreciable degree. It's just twisted pair copper. You may want to check polarity at your jacks, Radio Shack sells a polarity tester for less than $15. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
