Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
This can be read On-Topic or Off-Topic as you will. The saga continues, and continues, and continues: So far we've replaced the Apex box with an RCA box. We get a much clearer picture with the RCA box, and I like the RCA remote much better than the Apex remote, but we only receive one additional station. (Of course, it's not WETA.) We have also tried replacing our home-made antenna (a la the YouTube instructions) with an RCA "super" antenna. Same results whichever antenna we used, so the RCA antenna, with booster, goes back to Walmart tomorrow. No real need to throw away $30 for nothing. My husband has also reconfigured our home-made antenna to add a few inches (by using longer pieces of coathanger for the "legs" of the antenna). That has boosted our signal so we get an additional 3 stations. Nothing we want, especially, but 3 more than before. We have played with locating the best signal possible inside the house, and we've gotten to about 80% signal strength. (The RCA box has very nice controls for monitoring this, which is helpful in siting the antenna for best reception.) The next move will be to buy some more antenna cable and try extending the antenna outside, and above the level of our (flat) roof to see what difference that makes. This is all pretty ridiculous, but at this point it's the principle of the thing. If the antenna works outside the house, we'll have to think about whether, or not, we want to get a "real" adjustable roof antenna for another couple hundred $$$s. What a rip-off this whole thing is turning out to be. The alternative might (or might not!) be to get an HD tv and hook it up to the Comcast cable in our house. The only stopper for that is -- I don't think the signal strength to any of our tv's will be strong enough for them to actually receive digital signals without having Comcast come in and re-wire our house (the Comcast cable splits here and there as it is fed to various tv's in the house). We had to connect the new Comcast box directly to the one TV it's 'feeding' and split beyond it for that tv to receive any of the digital signals. When we put the splitter between the tv and the box, not only did we lose digital signals, but we also lost many of the signals we got before adding the box. Frustrating to the max! Mical Wimoth Carton chrper...@aol.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>played with locating the best signal possible inside the house, and >we've gotten to about 80% signal strength. (The RCA box has very nice >controls for monitoring this, which is helpful in siting the antenna >for best reception.) My experience is that an 80% signal is not good enough because the signal strength fluctuates too much. If your best is 80 you will from time to time drop to 40 and that isn't enough. >The next move will be to buy some more antenna cable and try extending >the antenna outside, and above the level of our (flat) roof to see >what difference that makes. That should make a big difference. I bet that if you are getting 80 inside you will get 95 outside. >The alternative might (or might not!) be to get an HD tv and hook it >up to the Comcast cable Are you trying to feed multiple sets/boxes with your antenna? I would not do that until a good strong signal is established. Worse case you will only be able to feed 1 set from the antenna. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:17 PM, chrper...@aol.com wrote: > We have also tried replacing our home-made antenna (a la the YouTube > instructions) with an RCA "super" antenna. Same results whichever antenna we > used, so the RCA antenna, with booster, goes back to Walmart tomorrow. No > real need to throw away $30 for nothing. When June 12 rolls around, a number of the current DTV broadcasts that are on UHF frequencies, which your home-made antenna is designed to receive, will switch to VHF frequencies. That home-made antenna is not designed to work on VHF. > The next move will be to buy some more antenna cable and try extending the > antenna outside, and above the level of our (flat) roof to see what > difference that makes. This is all pretty ridiculous, but at this point it's > the principle of the thing. If the antenna works outside the house, we'll > have to think about whether, or not, we want to get a "real" adjustable roof > antenna for another couple hundred $$$s. What a rip-off this whole thing is > turning out to be. You will most probably need to get an external antenna if you want the best reception possible. This was true even back in the "good old days" of nothing but analog TV. However, you will certainly not have to spend, as you put it, "another couple hundred $$$s" unless you decide to go fulll tilt from the outset. All you will need is a regular VHF/UHF TV antenna. There is no such thing as a specially designed HDTV or DTV antenna no matter what the ads say. Just get an antenna that has sufficient gain to enable you to receive whatever stations you can reasonably expect to be able to receive. You'll need that cable, but you can get it cheap if you look around a bit. A rotator? Maybe, but you can add that later if you install now with an update to a rotator at a later date in mind. I use the Channel Master 4228 which works well on channels 7 through 69. This is an 8 bay bowtie antenna, basically designed for high-gain UHF reception, but providing good VHF coverage down to channel 7. It does not work that well on the lower band VHF channels of 2 through 6. To my knowledge, no TV stations in the DC/Baltimore area are going broadcast on any channel below 7 anyway after June 12. Here is a link to an XLS database of channel assignments for stations all across the country: http://www.rabbitears.info/ss/DTV-Channels.xls Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>Just get an antenna that has sufficient gain to enable you >to receive whatever stations you can reasonably expect to be able to >receive. Good point. A good antenna is the most important part of it. Everything else you may do will be to make up for antenna shortfalls. If the antenna you get has enough gain, everything else will be easy. Antennas with good gain at lower numbered channels will be big. If you don't have to worry about those lower channels you will have an easier time with the antenna. Great value in doing your homework. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
Thanks very much for the comments, Steve! Interesting that we'll lose stations when the UHF to VHF transition takes place. How do you tell, before you purchase, which antenna will give you the most "gain"? We'll have to look into the Channel Master 4228. Baltimore has a Channel 2, but we don't watch it much. The channel I'm currently trying to get, that I have lost except for the one TV with the Comcast box, is WETA, Channel 26, from Washington, DC. We're in Baltimore, so I can - sort of - understand that it's hard to receive. But it's on the list of stations we should be receiving, but are not. I'll keep everyone posted as we continue to experiment. Longer cable is being purchased now, so that should be installed in a day or two. Mical Wimoth Carton chrper...@aol.com From: "phartz...@gmail.com" On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:17 PM, chrper...@aol.com wrote: We have also tried replacing our home-made antenna (a la the YouTube instructions) with an RCA "super" antenna. Same results whichever antenna we used, so the RCA antenna, with booster, goes back to Walmart tomorrow. No real need to throw away $30 for nothing. When June 12 rolls around, a number of the current DTV broadcasts that are on UHF frequencies, which your home-made antenna is designed to receive, will switch to VHF frequencies. That home-made antenna is not designed to work on VHF. The next move will be to buy some more antenna cable and try extending the antenna outside, and above the level of our (flat) roof to see what difference that makes. This is all pretty ridiculous, but at this point it's the principle of the thing. If the antenna works outside the house, we'll have to think about whether, or not, we want to get a "real" adjustable roof antenna for another couple hundred $$$s. What a rip-off this whole thing is turning out to be. You will most probably need to get an external antenna if you want the best reception possible. This was true even back in the "good old days" of nothing but analog TV. However, you will certainly not have to spend, as you put it, "another couple hundred $$$s" unless you decide to go fulll tilt from the outset. All you will need is a regular VHF/UHF TV antenna. There is no such thing as a specially designed HDTV or DTV antenna no matter what the ads say. Just get an antenna that has sufficient gain to enable you to receive whatever stations you can reasonably expect to be able to receive. You'll need that cable, but you can get it cheap if you look around a bit. A rotator? Maybe, but you can add that later if you install now with an update to a rotator at a later date in mind. I use the Channel Master 4228 which works well on channels 7 through 69. This is an 8 bay bowtie antenna, basically designed for high-gain UHF reception, but providing good VHF coverage down to channel 7. It does not work that well on the lower band VHF channels of 2 through 6. To my knowledge, no TV stations in the DC/Baltimore area are going broadcast on any channel below 7 anyway after June 12. Here is a link to an XLS database of channel assignments for stations all across the country: http://www.rabbitears.info/ss/DTV-Channels.xls Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>How do you tell, before you purchase, which antenna will give you the >most "gain"? Nice charts and discussion at hdtvprimer.com. See section on erecting antennas. SolidSignal.com has good info. Note new Channel Master model 4228HD covers down to channel 7. Channel Master 4228 has the highest gain of 12 db. Remember that 1 db = a doubling of power so 12 db is a lot. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:09 PM, chrper...@aol.com wrote: > Thanks very much for the comments, Steve! Interesting that we'll lose > stations when the UHF to VHF transition takes place. > > How do you tell, before you purchase, which antenna will give you the most > "gain"? > > We'll have to look into the Channel Master 4228. Baltimore has a Channel 2, > but we don't watch it much. The channel I'm currently trying to get, that I > have lost except for the one TV with the Comcast box, is WETA, Channel 26, > from Washington, DC. We're in Baltimore, so I can - sort of - understand > that it's hard to receive. But it's on the list of stations we should be > receiving, but are not. > > Digital Channel 2 isn't on 2 it is on 38 according to Antennaweb.org. The channels numbers will be a legacy of the good old days that carry on even if they have nothing to do with the actual location of the channel. The boxes are now smart enough to call a station on channel 38 channel 2. The antennas only claim down to 7 because 2-6 is a separate band of frequencies right below the FM band that is to be removed from the other current VHF frequencies. You can get the audio for channel 6 on the low low end of the FM dial for the old analog transmitters. You can do this when you get near Philadelphia until the change over anyhow. < http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/103327-ota-digital-channel-assignments.html > -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
A minor correction: 3 db is twice power, not 1 db. The formula is: db = 10 log(P2 / P1) = 20 log (v2 / v1) where P is power and v is voltage. 12 db is an increase in power of about 15.8. Tom Piwowar wrote: SolidSignal.com has good info. Note new Channel Master model 4228HD covers down to channel 7. Channel Master 4228 has the highest gain of 12 db. Remember that 1 db = a doubling of power so 12 db is a lot. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>A minor correction: 3 db is twice power, not 1 db. Sorry, brain cramp. >12 db is an increase in power of about 15.8. A 1580% increase! You definitely want a good antenna. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
Is the choice of antenna something we'll just have to wait to see what the signals will be like in June when analog signals are turned off? Channels will move. Frequencies and power will change. A box or antenna that is so-so now could be just fine in the summer. I ordered a Tivax STB-T8 yesterday. Has good reviews, customers and review sites. I don't expect much from any converter box, though. Will probably go from 20+ fuzzy watchable stations to 3 if I'm lucky. Who was this frequency change supposed to benefit? Nobody I know. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
Does anyone have any data on 12v converter boxes? The TVs on boats and rvs are perfectly fine for what they're doing and they were cheap, but to replace them with a flat dtv is a considerable investment... and what about hurricane season? - Original Message - From: "Robert Carroll" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV A minor correction: 3 db is twice power, not 1 db. The formula is: db = 10 log(P2 / P1) = 20 log (v2 / v1) where P is power and v is voltage. 12 db is an increase in power of about 15.8. Tom Piwowar wrote: SolidSignal.com has good info. Note new Channel Master model 4228HD covers down to channel 7. Channel Master 4228 has the highest gain of 12 db. Remember that 1 db = a doubling of power so 12 db is a lot. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 7:24 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: > Is the choice of antenna something we'll just have to wait to see what the > signals will be like in June when analog signals are turned off? Channels > will move. Frequencies and power will change. A box or antenna that is so-so > now could be just fine in the summer. Could be just fine, as you say. However, a lot of folks have obtained those small so-called HDTV set-top antennas like the Zenith Silver Sensor and its ilk. Those small UHF antennas were pushed hard by retailers as virtually all the initial DTV broadcasts have been in the UHF band for which those antennas were designed. When a lot of the current UHF broadcasts migrate down to VHF, the bulk of the aforementioned antennas are not going to be able to receive them. However, if said folks have saved their old rabbit ears, they can use those along with their UHF antenna to receive the VHF signals. They will just have to use a combiner to hook both antennas together into one feed. > I ordered a Tivax STB-T8 yesterday. Has good reviews, customers and review > sites. I don't expect much from any converter box, though. Will probably go > from 20+ fuzzy watchable stations to 3 if I'm lucky. Who was this frequency > change supposed to benefit? Nobody I know. Most stations are going to remain in the UHF spectrum. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>I ordered a Tivax STB-T8 yesterday. Has good reviews, customers and >review sites. I have it and much regret the purchase. Poor sensitivity. Crummy remote. Slow to change channels. Poor display of program info. Suspect they paid for good reviews or the other boxes must be really bad. The RCA box we have works much better. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: > I have it and much regret the purchase. Poor sensitivity. Crummy remote. > Slow to change channels. Poor display of program info. Suspect they paid > for good reviews or the other boxes must be really bad. The RCA box we > have works much better. Ever notice that many so-called "reviews" of products on the internet are worded exactly the same even though they appear on different sites? Seems as if they are actually press releases as opposed to any sort of review. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
>I ordered a Tivax STB-T8 yesterday. Has good reviews, customers and >review sites. I have it and much regret the purchase. Poor sensitivity. Crummy remote. Slow to change channels. Poor display of program info. Suspect they paid for good reviews or the other boxes must be really bad. The RCA box we have works much better. We have an excellent RCA powered VHF/UHF antenna that we'll use with it; might hook up the roof antenna. Since the TV's only used for late night shows and watching sports when local stations are blacked out, it doesn't have to be anything except a receiver. I don't care about program info display, just picture. I know which channels to watch [must find new numbers] and when the shows are on. Besides we can always look at our big TVs for program info. Reception depends a lot on where you live and which antenna you use, too. Customer reviews vary widely on all products, so you have to pick and choose, then cross your fingers when you buy a device. This one got great reviews and awful reviews, like most converters, except the ones that only got awful reviews. None got all good reviews. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] OT: Cable & Digital TV
Does anyone have any data on 12v converter boxes? Do you have an inverter? That way you can use an AC box instead of a 12v box. Does the boat [dock/marina] have a mailing address where you can get a DTV coupon? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
