[Callers] Re: Resources to turn musicians into dance musicians?

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

It’s true—they’re either written in 2/4 time or 4/4 cut time.

2 beats per measure x 8 measures = 16 beats per phrase.


Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 4:00 PM Mac Mckeever  wrote:

> OK - I have had several very knowledgeable musicians explain this to me
> and I still don't understand how a reel has 8 measurers to a phrase - or
> even if that is true.
>
> Mac McKeever
> St. Louis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 04:55:06 PM CDT, Neal Schlein via
> Contra Callers  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> What dancers and callers understand as “a measure” or “a beat” is not
> necessarily the same as what professional musicians will understand,
> depending on how the sheet music was written.
>
> (My wife is a classically trained clarinetist who can also play violin and
> fiddles a little; she has gotten used to my terminology, but we still have
> miscommunications occasionally.)
>
> I strongly second the advice of communicating the concept of potatoes and
> practicing exactly how long you expect the band to play before you start
> calling, and how to signal the end of tunes.  The advantage you do have on
> that particular front (assuming these are classical musicians) is that they
> are used to watching a conductor for gestures.
>
> They may have difficulty setting a good starting pace for tunes.  I’d tell
> them to be careful with recordings as those frequently are paced
> differently and are flourished for listening. One of the finest fiddlers I
> know once recorded a 9 minute track for me with the preface that it would
> be great for dancing, but not much to listen to.
>
> I will ask my significant other if she has other advice.
>
> Neal Schlein
> Librarian, MSLIS
>
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[Callers] Re: Resources to turn musicians into dance musicians?

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

What dancers and callers understand as “a measure” or “a beat” is not
necessarily the same as what professional musicians will understand,
depending on how the sheet music was written.

(My wife is a classically trained clarinetist who can also play violin and
fiddles a little; she has gotten used to my terminology, but we still have
miscommunications occasionally.)

I strongly second the advice of communicating the concept of potatoes and
practicing exactly how long you expect the band to play before you start
calling, and how to signal the end of tunes.  The advantage you do have on
that particular front (assuming these are classical musicians) is that they
are used to watching a conductor for gestures.

They may have difficulty setting a good starting pace for tunes.  I’d tell
them to be careful with recordings as those frequently are paced
differently and are flourished for listening. One of the finest fiddlers I
know once recorded a 9 minute track for me with the preface that it would
be great for dancing, but not much to listen to.

I will ask my significant other if she has other advice.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
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[Callers] Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

I agree with Jonathan about your existing list, and think that almost any
sequence CAN be used if done with knowledgeable intent.

However, for the general list of things to avoid I would nominate what I
like to call “fudge down the line,” which is any adjustment that a) happens
solely because the sequence doesn’t fully progress the couples and b) does
not flow naturally from the existing movement.  (This most often happens in
Beckett dances or those substantially in Beckett formation; examples
include a 2 count sideways slide along the line or a slightly angled right
and left thru.)

Notably, the 4 beat slide in “With Thanks to the Dean” and similar dances
would not count because they are full and discrete actions that are
specifically
accounted for in the flow and timing.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:28 PM Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Depending on the flow of the dance,  balance and box the gnat  can often
> replace  dsd and shoulder rounds 1 1/2
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:17 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't have Bob's list handy, but I cribbed heavily from it to make this
>> (much less extensive) list of figures + timings
>> ,
>> in case it's useful to anyone!
>>
>> (This reminds me of some more things I don't like, ha. Circle L and pass
>> through to swing -- IME the swing always gets truncated. Dosido 1.5x and
>> right shoulder round 1.5x don't quiiite fit in 8 counts of music and are
>> often frustrating. And I don't call couples' dosidos anymore, they're a
>> pain to execute correctly unless everyone in the hall is EXTREMELY on top
>> of it.)
>> --
>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>> 917.279.8194
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:02 AM Joe Harrington 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is Bob Isaacs in the house?  He has a giant spreadsheet with every
>>> possible move transition and a count of the number of times it occurs in a
>>> set of dances that now numbers in the hundreds or maybe a lot more.  It’s
>>> interesting which unlikely combinations do occur and which rarely do.  I
>>> hope this someday sees the light of day.
>>>
>>> —jh—
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:29 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
 Jeff, impressively bad, well done!

 My biggest pet peeve is a RH chain (or promenade, or other move with a
 CCW courtesy turn) into a circle L—though this is a very of-the-moment
 style preference, as I know plenty of the classic dances have this combo.
 (Likewise for dances where just the 1s do a figure while the 2s stand
 around, doubly so if the dance doesn’t alternate active couples.)

 Long lines followed by a chain is quite idiomatic—and probably in part
 because of the strength that idiom, a chain (or other courtesy turn figure)
 followed by long lines drives me up a wall.

 I don’t love long lines into a circle—I’ll tolerate it if the rest of
 the dance is really exceptional, e.

 --
 Maia McCormick (she/her)
 917.279.8194


 On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
 contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Balance neighbor (4), swing partner (12)
>
> Ones dosido below while twos seesaw above (8).
>
> Long lines forward (4), swing on the side (8), long lines back (4).
>
> Circle left 1x (6) pass through (2)
>
> Jeff
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:51 PM Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>- A right chain INTO a swing
>>- A swing into a circle right
>>- Standard right shoulder hey into a swing
>>
>>
>> Plenty other bad flow examples
>>
>>
>> Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP (he, him, his)
>> Senior IT Manager, Emory Primate Center
>>
>> 
>>  Book
>> time to meet with me
>> 
>> --
>> *From:* Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2024 9:48 PM
>> *To:* New Contra Callers List 
>> *Subject:* [External] [Callers] Re: Choreographic No-Nos
>>
>> I don't agree with your list.  Yes, swings on the first half of a
>> phrase are challenging and I might try to avoid them.  There are dances
>> with this that generally work fine, especially if the caller is aware of
>> the potential issue and teaches and calls accordingly.  The do-si-do 
>> across
>> can be a bit awkward in a crowded line, but only if everyone is do

[Callers] Re: Shadow Swings?

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Not going to disagree with Joseph at all, just want to add an observation
that I’ve been thinking about for awhile.

The practice of claiming authority, properly citing sources, and noting
your changes is inherently academic, and arose in the Renaissance period as
a response and counter-reaction to the unauthorized distribution and
un-cited reuse of scientific research. It ultimately led to the development
of modern academic journals.

In other circles and from a place of external privilege, this same kind of
theft that the academics were upset by would be rebranded as the “folk
process” and the claim would be made that there was a total lack of
authority and citation.

The truth is somewhere in between, of course, but I do believe that the
folk process ultimately doesn’t care one way or the other, and that “I
learned this dance from my Uncle Brad and the folks in Greenwood” is more
than good enough.

I also suspect the results are probably better overall when we worry about
it less.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 8:49 AM Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> As for the first part of your question, callers have been tweaking
> sequences for decades now, for all sorts of reasons; to make them work
> better, or to suit evolving tastes in what dancers enjoy, or even by
> accident. The Callers Box is chock full of the results. I don’t think
> anyone is going to suddenly be precious about it in this particular case.
>
> As for the last part, the issue at hand is to avoid the swing. Modifying
> the dance does that just as much as avoiding the dance altogether. Find a
> move or moves that leave the shadows in the same relative positions ready
> to do the next thing. Congratulations, you’ve composed a new dance/dance
> variant! Test it and see if it works well enough to call. If you call it at
> an event and/or publish it, politely acknowledge the source.
>
>
>
> *Sent from my phone, which has odd ideas about formatting sometimes.*
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 6:51 AM Alex Burka via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Here's a secret fourth thing: how do we feel about calling a shadow swing
>> dance (if it was otherwise desirable for some reason) but swapping out the
>> swing for a do-si-do or something similar? Is that too much modification by
>> the caller, or too little to solve the problem?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:52 AM Amy Wimmer via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly this.
>>> -Amy
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 1:43 AM JJ via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
 I think there's a bit of privilege being shown in this thread that
 needs to be addressed. Those who are admonishing others for avoiding shadow
 swings clearly haven't been put in a position where they felt unsafe
 swinging with someone they didn't choose, and then being (more or less)
 forced to continue to swing with that person throughout an entire dance.
 And I'm not just talking about feeling uncomfortable with someone's
 personality, sexual harassment, or general bigotry. I'm also talking about
 unsafe dance practices like forceful/non-consentual flourishes/dips,
 improper weight given, unsafe swinging speeds without paying attention to
 the needs of the person you're swinging with, ignoring (and therefore
 exacerbating) an existing injury... The list goes on.

 The swing is arguably the move that requires the most trust in the
 other person, and not being able to choose someone that you're doing half
 the swings in a dance with can cause some unsafe situations for various
 reasons. A single swing with a neighbor can usually be accommodated, but
 much more than that can become dangerous.

 Also, people are allowed to just not like shadow-swings without giving
 a reason or explaining themself. They are allowed to find them
 confusing/disorienting. Just as others are allowed to enjoy them.
 People are also allowed to avoid dancing with certain people for any
 reason whatsoever; yes we want to be inclusive, but inclusivity to the
 point of ignoring the safety/comfort of the individual runs into the
 Horseshoe Problem (ie. pushing an issue so far that you end up causing the
 problems you set out to avoid).

 To bring it back to the topic at hand, I think a good rule of thumb as
 a caller (and one I employ on the rare occasion I choose a dance with a
 shadow swing) is telling people that the next dance has a shadow swing in
 it, in advance of the walkthrough. And then giving people a chance to
 choose to sit out or even join a different line if they have concerns. That
 way, those that enjoy the move can have a nice time, and those that don't
 aren't forced into an unsafe situation until they can get to the end of a

[Callers] John Bradford of Colorado

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

He hasn’t been active for many years, but I just learned that John Bradford
passed away on July 27, 2024.

John learned to call as a young child in Oklahoma, even before attending
one of Lloyd Shaw’s earliest caller workshops in Colorado Springs with his
parents.  At the time he was not yet able to waltz (a prerequisite for
atending), and was trying to squeak by with a two-step.  According to John,
Shaw caught him at it immediately—and set his best students to rectifying
the issue post-haste.

John would go on to perform with the Cheyenne Mountain Dancers, was a
founding member and driving force behind the Lloyd Shaw Foundation (LSF),
and was the caller for their recordings of Shaw’s 5-part singing quadrille
and the Broadmoor Promenade.  According one report, he was deemed to have
perfectly picked up Shaw’s cadence and could call entirely without
affectation.

John was instrumental in getting the LSF’s recordings created, packaged,
marketed, and distributed to schools across the country.  A deep well of
knowledge, John was a true old-time caller and knew patter that I have
never heard anywhere else.

In addition to being a superb and versatile caller and dancer (with one of
the best swings of anyone around), John was a self taught guitarist,
singer, and pianist, a professional educator, and an all-around gentleman
and excellent human being. As an added bonus, kids and adults both just did
what he told them to do.

He has left behind a family full of musicians, dancers, and callers, as
well as a legacy of teaching and inspiring everyone who danced with him—not
to mention the teachers and children touched by his efforts to have quality
dance exposure incorporated into school curriculums.


Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
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[Callers] Re: In light of recent developments

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Oh, the irony.
Because we are trying to make diverse people feel welcome, we can’t express
opposition to the policies of those who would prefer that those diverse
people not be welcome.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 6:09 AM Vicki Morrison via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Considering all of the efforts our dance community makes to be welcoming
> and inclusive, the title of this dance does just the opposite by
> appearing unwelcoming and exclusive. Plus, as Mac said, non-profit
> organizations risk losing their status by taking political stands.
>
> Vicki Morrison
> Tallahassee
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
>
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2024, 12:47 AM, Mac Mckeever via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> You are  aware that not-for-profits can not take any kind of political
> stand or they can lose their standing.  Just takes one  dancer on the red
> side to report you.
>
> I'd check with your attorney before doing this.
>
> Mac
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, July 22, 2024 at 05:59:01 PM CDT, Jonathan Sivier via Contra
> Callers  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a couple of gigs next month.  I'll give it a try.
>
> Jonathan
> -
> Jonathan Sivier
> Caller of Contra, Square, English and Early American Dances
> Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
> -
> Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
> A: It depends on what dance you call!
>
>
> On 7/22/2024 5:00 PM, Elizabeth Bloom Albert via Contra Callers wrote:
> > *my "**Vote Blue No Matter Who,**" tweaked for this election cycle:*
> >
> > *(let me know how it goes if you call this one!)*
> >
> > *
> > *
> >
> > *Vote Blue No Matter Who, Version 2.024 *(5-2-24) /by Elizabeth Bloom
> Albert /**
> >
> > Becket formation; start one-quarter turn to left of Improper; this dance
> progresses clockwise.
> >
> > A1*(2) Slide Left to new neighbors:
> >
> > (6) Ladies Do-Si-Do 1 x
> >
> > (8) Swing Partner
> >
> > A2  (4) Ladies: R-hand Balance
> >
> >(4) Ladies: Pull-by R to switch [places] {Drop hands}
> >
> > (4) Gents: R-hand Balance
> >
> >(4) Gents: Pull-by R to switch [places] {Don’t drop hands}
> >
> > B1  (8) [Hands Across] Star Right
> >
> > [End in Wavy Lines up/down hall with Gents facing in]
> >
> >(4) Balance the [Blue!] wave
> >
> >(4) Balance the wave again
> >
> > B2  (8) Gents cross Left, for Half a Hey
> >
> > (8) Swing Partner (again)
> >
> > NOTES:
> >
> > A1: CALLER: During walk thru and 1st time thru, couples do not shift
> left, dancing instead with couple across.
> >
> >
> >
> > /
> >
> > /
> >
> > ___
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[Callers] Re: Shadow Swings?

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

It is absolutely more disorienting.

The swing is one of very few moves (if not the only one) in which people
may or may not change set position based on which role they are
dancing/used to dancing and where they started the move from as a standard
matter. It is also executed differently based on which role you are
dancing, and may or may not be executed differently based on whether you
and the other person are physically presenting as male/female/other.

Name me another figure with those variables that happens at a regular
dance.

Change the people involved in any swing unexpectedly, and you’re
exponentially more likely to get an unexpected result.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 4:49 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Is it really any more disorienting to have a shadow change in a dance with
> a shadow swing vs., say, an allemande or another move?
>
> --jh--
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:08 PM Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Re: partners swapping during shadow dances and confusing their respective
>> shadows (I think of it as Peter Pan-ing, on account of our shadows coming
>> detached)… I appreciate events where there are designated chaos lines so
>> those who are in the mood for them can indulge to their hearts’ content. I
>> suppose there could be no-shenanigans lines alternatively. Or couples who
>> are likely to swap could give their shadows a heads up during walk-through.
>>
>> -Joseph
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 2:45 PM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> # 2. No problem, but rarely call
>>>
>>> As dancer - meh...biggest issue is when there is suddenly a new shadow
>>> due to dancers joining late or some other mix. As I age I find I get
>>> disoriented when my point of reference suddenly changes. I imagine, for a
>>> new dancer who has been told this person, your shadow will/should be the
>>> same person every time, it could be confusing as well. IMHO
>>>
>>> Mary Collins
>>> WNY/ST (Western New York/Southern Tier)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024, 10:39 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
 Prompted by some recent conversations, I’m curious how folks here feel
 about shadow swings!

 1. As a caller, do you:
 A) not have an issue with shadow swings, and program them freely
 B) not tend to program them just bc they don’t come up in your
 repertoire, but have no issue with them
 C) not program shadow swings as a matter of principle
 D) some secret fourth thing (feel free to elaborate!)?

 2. How do you feel about shadow swings as a dancer?

 Will weigh in with my thoughts later, both to avoid biasing the
 conversation from the outset, and also because I’m currently in transit 😅

 Thanks for participating in the data gathering!

 Cheers,
 Maia

 --
 Maia McCormick (she/her)
 917.279.8194
 ___
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 contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net

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[Callers] Re: Cures for the Claps?

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

I’ve gotten used to it over time, but clapping sometimes bugs me as both a
dancer and a caller.  It isn’t the clapping itself, so much as the fact
that it almost always impacts the flow or execution of the next move to
some extent.

Here are a couple specific reasons they stick out to me, and possibly for
others as well:

First, as someone who is prone to dizziness in other circumstances (usually
not on the dance floor, thankfully) I always like to have hands joined
cleanly and predictably to provide/receive steadying support. Adding claps
can make securing that support less predictable.

Second, as someone with excellent hearing, lots of loud/unexpected clapping
can be distracting if not painful…especially if it is out of rhythm.  I
personally prefer the physical reconnection of the circle to the auditory
percussion of the claps.

Third: In the past I often found that the clapping was “late,” especially
relative to the wind-up for a good circle balance. People would come to a
complete stop just to clap, leading to major impacts on flow in the dance.
I think this has shifted over time, and may have been regional, but first
impressions are hard to shake. People who encountered that are likely to
have strong opinions.

Finally (and this is completely personal), I come from a tradition with a
precision performance team. In that context we all learned to use and
reinforce the uniform team style at regular dances.  Our contra styling was
minimalist, and double claps were not included.  I’ve gotten used to them
now, but still default to thinking of the team style as my “normal.”
Anything that actively interferes with using it requires a conscious mental
shift to adapt to.

Hope that helps!

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 12:42 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> As a musician I'm generally pretty positive on clapping, noisy balances,
> whoops, and other noises from the hall -- it communicates that the dancers
> are having fun and feeling the music!
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 2:35 PM Mac Mckeever via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I have heard that, especially in larger halls - the time it takes for the
>> music to get to the dancers and then the clapping back to the band makes
>> the clapping out of time with what the band is trying to do and can be
>> annoying.
>>
>> I am not sure I ever heard a musician say that
>>
>> Mac
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 22, 2024 at 12:58:48 PM CDT, Russell Frank via Contra
>> Callers  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m no expert, but I was dancing back in the era when clapping was
>> frowned upon, and still often refrain from clapping.  I can think of 2
>> reasons.
>>
>> First, this was simply a case of the dancers doing a move differently
>> than the caller had taught it - and not just a few dancers occasionally,
>> but a lot of dancers every time. It must have been a bit of a shock.
>> Second, percussion from the hall is generally frowned upon, because it
>> covers, and could confuse the band. This may have been a problem back in
>> the day, although bands expect it and have no problem these days.
>> Russell, Monterey, CA
>>
>> > On May 22, 2024, at 9:45 AM, Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > John Sweeney hit on a big reason I'm baffled, in pointing out that the
>> balances in Petronella (the dance) are in the second half of a phrase. So
>> what's funny is that in the originally Petronella, it's
>> > Spin spin spin pause
>> > Stomp Stomp Stomp Stomp (or steps, but, still)
>> >
>> > And in the modern move it's
>> > Stomp Stomp Stomp stomp
>> > Spin spin spin pause
>> >
>> > So the originally Petronella had everyone making percussive noise on
>> that last measure. And the modern move has people filling in that pause
>> with percussive sounds.
>> >
>> > I've heard from people say "you need the beat or two to take hands" but
>> like, somehow that's not true with every other move where a move ends and
>> you need to join hands in a ring immediately - after a swing, bending a
>> line of four, turning to a new neighbor on a progression and readying for a
>> balance, etc.
>> >
>> > My summation is it's just a preference.
>> > And I notice when bands play chiller tunes for Petronella spins, fewer
>> people clap, so...
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > Anyway, I also very much would love to hear any other explanations of
>> "clapping in Petronellas is wrong".
>> >
>> >
>> > In dance,
>> > Julian Blechner.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 22, 2024, 12:16 PM Richard Fischer via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >> Hi Maia,
>> >>
>> >> I have no claim to expertise, but I'm with you. In dances where the
>> Petronella claps don't interfere with anything, why not?  Dancers enjoy it,
>> and it can often be one of the first things new dancers notice about
>> unified timing. I'm not sure how it

[Callers] Re: Tony Parkes 1949-2024

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Actually, I don’t think I can give details.  Sorry.

I’m not the author of Empty Shoes and can’t claim I have permission to
share the full choreography widely. It was written by a musician/caller
(Rodney Barnes?) after his father died, and I first learned it from him at
one of the last Folk Fellowship dance camps. Those were invitation-only
groups and the notes were printed in the syllabus/yearbook, which is what I
refer to every time we need it. (Which I regretfully have to do soon, as we
just lost one of our longest-term dancers. I’ve only taught it five or six
times in the last 15 years.)

While I assume it would probably be fine for me to share the details, I’ve
never seen the dance posted online anywhere and I don’t know the author
that well. I would prefer not to violate his copyrights on something that
could still be sensitive.

However, I will say that it require a fairly large number of people,
because it is a circular contra with a definite ECD feel and rather more
intricate than the typical contra dance.  If I recall correctly, it has a
setting-type balance and a 2-hand turn in it.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:21 PM Patricia Campbell @gmail.com> wrote:

> Would you please describe the dance Empty Shoes?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Patricia
>
> Patricia Campbell
> southern Maine
>
>
> *Celebrating Community Through Traditional Dance and Music*
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 5:23 PM Neal Schlein via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> One of the rather idiosyncratic dance groups that I belong to has a
>> specific dance that we do in memory of a recently deceased member, as well
>> as all the other dancers who came and left before. We also do it at camps
>> to remember anyone who can’t join us for whatever reason. The dance is
>> named Empty Shoes.
>>
>> At a more open dance, if it is recent and the person is locally known I
>> might post a note at the front table with a brief obituary and let the
>> volunteers know that a dance will be dedicated at some point in the night.
>>
>> From the microphone, I would make the announcement one dance ahead so
>> people have the chance to step out. Then keep it brief, basically to the
>> extent of, “Some of you may not have heard, but XYZ person passed away
>> recently.  They were a valuable part of our/the national dance community
>> for many years and will be missed. The next dance is one that they
>> wrote/particularly enjoyed, and I want to share it with you in their
>> memory.”
>>
>> Neal Schlein
>> Librarian, MSLIS
>>
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
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[Callers] Re: Tony Parkes 1949-2024

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

One of the rather idiosyncratic dance groups that I belong to has a
specific dance that we do in memory of a recently deceased member, as well
as all the other dancers who came and left before. We also do it at camps
to remember anyone who can’t join us for whatever reason. The dance is
named Empty Shoes.

At a more open dance, if it is recent and the person is locally known I
might post a note at the front table with a brief obituary and let the
volunteers know that a dance will be dedicated at some point in the night.

>From the microphone, I would make the announcement one dance ahead so
people have the chance to step out. Then keep it brief, basically to the
extent of, “Some of you may not have heard, but XYZ person passed away
recently.  They were a valuable part of our/the national dance community
for many years and will be missed. The next dance is one that they
wrote/particularly enjoyed, and I want to share it with you in their
memory.”

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
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[Callers] Re: Modified ballroom swing position: seeking more conversation and info

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Hi Julian,
Regarding both dancers trying to put their palm flat on the other persons
back, I agree with Joe.

The both-palms-flat swing does multiple things.

First, it forces the swing together because you are limited to the length
of the shorter arm. I’m six feet tall with broad shoulders and long
arms—putting your palm in the middle of my back means you’re going to be on
top of me. I don’t care who I’m dancing with—I want space, and I’m not OK
with that.  With a standard hold, I can give partners lots of space.   (Also,
I sweat from the head a lot. You want that space, and no one wants their
hand on my back.)

Second, if partners are the same height/arm length then the arms are coming
in at the same point and going to the same point, resulting in collision.
SOMEONE has to adjust up or down AND forward. This means a changed angle
for one person, and due to the change in angle a shortening of the hold to
match the arm that adjusted (usually on top), thereby pulling the swing
closer together than otherwise necessary…which also puts the other person’s
arm (typically lark, and also typically longer) in a non-natural position,
which is likely to be physically uncomfortable and potentially harmful.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 1:24 PM Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> You mean, palms flat on the back of shoulderblades? If so, it's how I
> teach it, lots of callers teach it, and this is the first I've heard a
> complaint about it.
>
> That said, you describe: "I've had my elbow bent backward by eager robins
> pressing my elbow in to get their elbow in the right place."
>
> That _sounds like_ what I call "arm clamping". While yes, putting Robin's
> hand on the outside of the shoulder also alleviates the clamping, it's not
> the only way to fix it. A Robin can lift their elbow. (I just workshopped
> the issue with my partner in the living room to test a variety of height
> and holds out to confirm what you were saying, as well.)
>
> The other issue is that if both dancers don't have hands flat on the backs
> of each other, it's more difficult to maintain an open frame when swinging.
> One usually winds up _closer_ when hands are resting on shoulders, unless
> one dancer is significantly stronger and the other is fairly petite.
>
> I know that my right arm will get seriously fatigued and sore if I have an
> evening too many times as Lark with Robins providing insufficient support.
> And I've heard plenty of dancers say similar.
>
> That said, all bodies are different. If yours works where the swing hold
> works better for you the way you describe, that is what it is, yeah? But I
> might recommend considering workshopping swings further, because what
> you're requesting is counter to prevailing teaching. If I understand
> correctly (and it's always possible I'm missing something.)
>
> In dance,
> Julian Blechner
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 24, 2024, 1:13 PM Joe Harrington 
> wrote:
>
>> Not the standard ballroom, with the robin's arm on top of the lark's, but
>> an alternative that I've seen occasionally, but for a number of years now,
>> where the robin tries to put their left hand in the same location on the
>> lark's back as the lark has their right hand on the robin's back.  I know
>> at least one prominent caller who teaches this hold in their newbie
>> workshop and tells their dancers that both sides need to do this to provide
>> equal support in the swing.
>>
>> While I like the principle, the practice can hurt. If the dancers are not
>> grossly mismatched in size/arm length, it won't be possible to do this
>> without their elbows occupying the same space.  I've had my elbow bent
>> backward by eager robins pressing my elbow in to get their elbow in the
>> right place.  Even if it doesn't go all the way to pain, it pretty much
>> eliminates my ability to provide any support, unless I "fight back" by
>> pushing my elbow out and resisting the inward pressure, essentially
>> refusing the position.  I'm also focusing entirely on protecting my elbow,
>> so it kills any enjoyment in that swing.
>>
>> Please gently discourage this hold.  If a robin wants to give major
>> support in a swing, the symmetric swing holds, the barrel, the one Jeff
>> described, or even a mirror of the ballroom where the lark's arm is on top
>> are much better opportunities.  A robin whose arm is longer than their
>> lark's arm can also reach over or around the shoulder in a ballroom hold
>> (robin's arm on top) to add support.  Just don't push down on the shoulder.
>>
>> --jh--
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 9:21 AM Julian Blechner <
>> juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> JJ,
>>>
>>> I like your point about the sort of code-switching that the asymmetry of
>>> a ballroom hold provides to reinforce what role one is dancing.
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I don't understand what you mean about the ballroom hold having elbows
>>> occupy the same space. I think I'

[Callers] Re: Most difficult contras

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Hi Tony,
I apologize for getting the attribution wrong – – I couldn’t remember which
of you wrote the dance and guessed. I memorized it years ago from a callers
manual written by Don Armstrong.

Several notes about all that…

The Folk Fellowship was reconstituted and went off-grid at the request of
the LSF to avoid being at odds with the Shaw Roundup. Which was a bit
silly, since it was many of the same people. It was on hiatus for some span
between the late 70s and the 80s, but was back by the 90s and ran until
imploding (permanently?) around 2005.

It was good to see someone else mention Gib Gilbert.  He started teaching
me to call shortly before his death, and I still consider him my stylistic
mentor; my favorite calling compliment ever was from someone in Berea who
said I sounded just like him.

Also, Gib actually wrote the “mixer” I mentioned, which makes me realize it
had to be in 1998 or 1999 because I hadn’t met my wife yet.  I’m probably
the only one who remembers dancing it.

As for Inflation Reel…it has always had a special place in my heart, and I
use it often. The first time I tried to call anything was an utter
disaster: the singing call Riverboat, with Calico & Boots’ occasional
in-house band…except it turned out they didn’t really know the tune. The
second attempt (six months later, to recorded music) was Inflation Reel. It
started to go off the rails as well because I was staring at my notes until
Gib intervened. His annoyed face suddenly appeared in my vision, he plucked
the cue card from my hand, smacked it on the table, and growled, “Never
hold cards—5, 6 and…!” I pulled the dance back together, and still follow
that rule.

The incident in Tucson was extra ridiculous, because
I had actually suggested Inflation Reel to the caller for those very
reasons. I was splitting an evening Intro to Contra hour with an
experienced MWSD caller who loves contras but (it turned out) fundamentally
did not understand teaching them or calling for beginners. He had never
presented them to the local dancers, so no one had any experience at all.
Unfortunately, as the “ranking” person he wanted to go first.  I don’t
remember what I used for the second dance, but it was pure recovery.

As for why it failed…yes it was taught and called poorly, but the MWSD
world itself has also changed; the notion of a lengthy (8 count) swing is
foreign to many dancers, as are fitting figures to the phrase, 8-count
timing, memorizing a sequence, or interpreting calls in the absence of
direct instructions.  The dancers themselves have also slowed down.
Inflation Reel can break at numerous points on these fronts, depending on
what the caller does.

Neal



On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 9:12 AM Tony Parkes  wrote:

>
>
> Ah, Neal’s post stirred memories…
>
>
>
> True, context is everything, but I was a bit surprised to read that
> MWSDers had trouble with Inflation Reel. I (not Don Armstrong) wrote it and
> Shadrack’s Delight specifically to appeal and be accessible to both trad
> and MWSD groups. I’ve used both dances at Intro to Contra sessions at
> National SD Conventions, with no trouble. Perhaps the caller at the Tucson
> event was relatively new to contras and/or hadn’t worked out how to present
> Inflation. (Note: On occasion I’ve used Inflation as a first contra with
> MWSD peeps, and avoided the wait at the ends by calling Trade By after the
> Pass Thru. [Trade By = those facing a couple Pass Thru, those facing out
> Partner Trade… which takes care of the cross over.])
>
>
>
> And I have fond memories of my two summers with the Lloyd Shaw Fellowship,
> an invitational group that was the predecessor of the Folk Fellowship. (I
> didn’t realize the FF lasted into the 21st century.) John Bradford was one
> of several respected callers in that world, which straddled the trad square
> and MWSD worlds. Others were Gib Gilbert and Bob Howell.
>
>
>
> It was Don Armstrong who got me an invitation to the Shaw Fellowship, and
> who made me a household name among MWSD-affiliated contra callers by
> publishing Inflation and Shadrack, first in Sets in Order magazine (of
> which he was Contra Editor) and shortly thereafter in the Contra Manual
> that he wrote for SIO. He recorded the calls for both dances on the Lloyd
> Shaw label (using music I wouldn’t have chosen, but you can’t have
> everything).
>
>
>
> Tony Parkes
>
> Billerica, Mass.
>
> www.hands4.com
>
> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
>
> (available now)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Neal Schlein via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 26, 2023 10:51 AM
> *To:* Jerome Grisanti 
> *Cc:* Michael Fuerst ; Shared Weight Contra
> Callers 
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Most difficult contras
>
>
>
> I have a couple of answers t

[Callers] Re: Most difficult contras

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

I have a couple of answers that are not exactly on-topic, because the
answer is contextual:

Inflation Reel by Don Armstrong when attempted at a MWSD convention in
Tucson.  (I was dancing.)

Anything called to the Eastern-European-style band that played in Bend,
Oregon circa November of 2003. (I was calling, it was their first time
playing for a dance.)

A contra written for the caller’s son’s wedding and pre-tested at the Folk
Fellowship dance camp, circa 2002; it was the first time most (any?) of us
had encountered an Orbit.  In the camp yearbook notes it said that John
Bradford had deemed the dance, “the greatest mixer ever written…although
there was some question whether it was supposed to be one.” (This was a
closed group and an expert caller with 50+ years experience. In my entire
life, I have never seen another dance devolve like it. Couples peeled from
the end and individuals were staggering out of the middle of the line
because they were so disoriented, yet somehow it continued to grind on.
The dance went off phrase, out of rhythm, the caller himself got lost and
couldn’t maintain the sequence…in the end he didn’t even cut the music off
for us; the line just fatally disintegrated all at once. )


Neal

On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 6:41 AM Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I should have added that the Robert Cromartie dance I mentioned was based
> on a Kathy Anderson dance.
>
> — Jerome
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 7:47 PM Jerome Grisanti 
> wrote:
>
>> "Would You Do It for Twenty?" by Robert Cromartie. We have discussions
>> about "glossary" dances, this one is a "kitchen sink" dance, as in
>> "everything you can think of but the kitchen sink." Contra corners,
>> petronella, diagonal hey, alternates between proper and improper.
>>
>> Maybe in a workshop, on a bet, hence the title.
>>
>> Jerome
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:38 PM Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> What are the most difficult  contras (improper, proper, indecent or
>>> becket) that you have danced,  have called, and remain  afraid to call?
>>> ___
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[Callers] Re: Three Chairs: A Genre of Civil War Era Dance Games

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

That’s almost always how it ends in my experience—the center person dances
off with the object and/or both of their “options.”  Most often I t’s
initiated by the caller in one way or another, but occasionally a random
dancer will do it.
Neal

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:15 PM John Freeman via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I used to occasionally throw a twist or two into this dance, depending
> upon my mood and that of the dancers. I would sometimes suggest to the
> center person that he/she either dance alone to the bottom or take both of
> the other dancers along. Or, I would sometimes insert myself into the
> dance. These always added a bit of fun into the proceedings.
>
> John B. Freeman SFTPOCTJ
> Retired
>
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
> 
>
> On Thursday, July 27, 2023, 2:06 PM, Allison and Hunt Smith via Contra
> Callers  wrote:
>
> This is a very interesting article. I would be very grateful if someone
> here would share their version of it as done today, especially for a
> wedding. I have a wedding coming up in (eek, less than a month) between two
> regulars at our contra dance series. There will be a lot of our dancers at
> the wedding, and I think it would be a fun way to get some of the
> friends-and-relations who don't dance into the fun. There will be no
> alcohol served at the event, so no champagne glasses, please!
> Thanks in advance,
> The Other Allison
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 1:58 PM Ben A via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I was curious about the origins of the "Brooms/Fan/Roses/Umbrellas" being
> used as props, and found this.
> Looks like others have wondered about the origins of this silliness - but
> no mention of rubber chickens!
>
> Ben
>
>
> https://www.kickery.com/2008/04/three-chairs-a.html#more
>
> Three Chairs: A Genre of Civil War Era Dance Games
>
>- Era: America, 1840s into early 20th century
>
> "My friend Patricia asks in email:
>
>
> Do you know of any documentation for a dance that is known to many as the
> "hat", "flower", "broom", "paddle", or "fan" dance? It is described as
> having two lines of people (usually men in one line and ladies …
> … He/she looks back & forth between them, hands the item to one of them
> and sashays or dances down the between the lines with the other person.
> Sometimes it's done with three chairs, sometimes with no chairs.
> I know several dances with most of those names (all but paddle), none of
> them what Patricia had in mind.  The dance she's describing is a variation
> on several of the mid-19th century cotillion figures also known as
> "Germans".  These were not cotillions in the 18th-century sense of a
> chorus/verse-structured dance for couples in a square.  Instead they were
> party games with dancing, some of which were quite silly and seem to us
> today more like children's games than pastimes for a formal ballroom.  By
> the end of the 19th century, the role of these games had evolved from an
> amusing way to end a ball into the entire point of the evening, and
> hostesses vied to run the best "Favor-Germans", with elaborate trinkets as
> game props and party favors for their guests.
>
> American dancing master Allen Dodworth, writing in 1885, explained the
> nomenclature of these dance games as follows:
>
>
> This dance was introduced in New York about the year 1844. At that time
> the quadrille was the fashionable dance, but was known as the cotillion. To
> make a distinction between that and this dance, which was known in Europe
> by the same name, this was called the "German Cotillion;" gradually the
> word cotillion was dropped, the dance becoming simply "The German."
>
>
> The German connection is not fantasy: the earliest definitive source I
> have for the this sort of dance game is an 1820 manual published in Berlin
> and does include a version of what I call the "three chairs" genre of
> figures as part of a larger list of figures under the heading "Cotillion"
> or "Codillon".
>
> Given Dodworth's dating of their introduction, these games are appropriate
> for Americans reenacting the mid-19th century (Civil War era) and later
> 19th century.  While many of the games used in Germans were probably in
> existence earlier (musical chairs, blind man's buff, etc.), there is no
> evidence of their incorporation into ballrooms of earlier eras outside of
> Germany.  Their history there, to the best of my knowledge, awaits further
> research.
>
> The hat - or other object - dance as described above is clearly
> folk-processed.  19th-century dancers would not have lined up like that for
> a German; they would have waited patiently in their chairs for the dance
> leader to direct them a few at a time.   Sashaying down the room would not
> have been used; couples would have taken the opportunity to really waltz or
> polka.  Dance manuals from the 1840s onward often contai

[Callers] Re: calling weddings

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

It is a wonderful activity.
I have no idea where we got the name, but Calico and Boots in Boulder, CO
has called it that for at least the last 35 years.  Of course, the name
typically gets modified based on the prop, and we have used anything and
everything over the years. I’ve seen:

Miniature Pumpkins and gourds (more than once)
Hats
Fan
Book
Flowers (real/fake)
Small broom
Caller’s cordless microphone
Stuffed animal
Wooden shoe
Magic fairy wand
Baby doll (at a baby shower)

Neal



On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 10:27 AM John Freeman via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I know this as the “Fan Dance”. I usually used it for ONS gigs, and often
> for Civil War balls. I have. Collection of wooden fans that I would take to
> dances. Even folks in wheels chairs can take part in this.
>
> John B. Freeman, SFTPOICTJ
>
> On Jul 5, 2023, at 10:00 AM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> This is just about my favorite dance-game, but I had never encountered the
> name “Favor of the Rose” before. I first learned it as “The Rose and the
> Thorn,” then more recently heard “A Rose Between Two Thorns” (of course,
> traditionally it’s gendered and typically starts with a lady between two
> gents). It’s also known as “The Hat Dance” or “The Fan Dance,” depending on
> the prop used.
>
> By coincidence, just last Saturday I bought a satin rose on plastic stem,
> to replace one that I had carried in my kit for years and that had recently
> disappeared. The new one is huge – twice the size and length of the old
> one; that’s what they had at Jo-Ann’s this time. I wasn’t sure I liked it
> at first, but I’m warming to it. I got it to use at Saturday night’s gig –
> a country club’s annual summer party for members & families – but I barely
> had enough people for a decent Galopede.
>
> Tony Parkes
> Billerica, Mass.
> www.hands4.com
> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
> (available now)
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
-- 
Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
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[Callers] Re: calling weddings

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Second the Grand March, super simple square-ish dance, and some kind of
Virginia Reel—especially for more thematic weddings.  Also a scatter
promenade (WITH partner), Big Circle with no partners needed, and La
Bastringue.

I would not bother with ballroom swings, and building to a contra is only
relevant if that’s what the couple wants and they are specifically inviting
people to a DANCE.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is Favor of the Rose: it is an absolute
favorite of mine and my dance community.

Favor of the Rose

-Line up three chairs and get a rose (or whatever).
-Form two lines of people, one on either side (any criteria, inequal is 💯
fine).
-Position the bride or groom in the middle chair and give them the rose.
-Bring two people from one line and have them sit.  Center person gives
rose to one, dances up center with the other.
-Remaining person moves to center chair. Repeat, alternating lines.

Neal Schlein


On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 3:14 PM Mac Mckeever via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I always start with a grand march - no teaching and eases some of the fear
> of doing other dances
>
> You can put the bride and groom in the second slot and announce they
> request participation from all guests
>
> Mac
>
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 04:10:09 PM CDT, Rich Sbardella via Contra
> Callers  wrote:
>
>
> I am enjoying this thread.
>
> I have called weddings with a full dance floor with long periods of
> dancing, and others which have a few dancers who only dance for a short
> period.  I had always felt like I failed when I did not get the
> participation I imagined, but I too have learned that our dances flavor the
> event, but we are not the main attraction.
>
> I do not generally require deposits for party dances, but I do for
> weddings and outdoor events.  I had a wedding to call last month that was
> cancelled about seven days before the scheduled date, and without
> an explanation.  It was the first time in 30 years that I kept a deposit,
> and I am still conflicted about it.  Any previous cancellations were
> weather related, and I applied the deposit to a rescheduled event.
>
> I have also called several wedding rehearsal dances, and generally get
> great participation from the attendees.
>
> One of my favorite dances for weddings and rehearsal dinners is Rural
> Felicity.
> At such events I rename the dance to Tunnel of Love, and I have the Bride
> and Groom as the 1st Top Couple.
>
> A1  LL F&B, Top Pair Sashay to foot
> A2  LL F&B,  Same Pair Sashay to top
> B1  P DSD, 2 Hand Turn and Make an Arch (Tunnel)
> B2  Top Pair lead down under the Arches
>
>  I have a wedding to call this weekend, and I am looking forward to it.
>
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford Springs, CT
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 2:43 PM Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I, too, have called for a lot of parties and weddings. Keeping it
> simple—whole set dances such as The Virginia Reel (without the reel).
>
>
>
> And, I actually wrote a book about it: *Old-Time Dance Calling for
> Weddings, Parties, and One-Night Stands*.
>
>
>
> I do differentiate weddings from other parties that are organized around
> the idea that there will be a dance, such as schools, some sort of a club,
> or even a birthday party:
>
>
>
> Weddings are to gather families and friends of the Bride & Groom to get
> together and meet each other—often for the first time—and get a chance to
> get to know each other. Weddings are not to get together to dance. We
> callers serve a wonderful service to use dance to get these friends and
> families to interact with each other.
>
>
>
> Tony says he rarely uses a mixer at a wedding. Maybe it’s that I live in
> Oakland, California, and don’t often go far from the “Liberal” west. I
> always start simple circle left, circle right, into the center & back X2,
> Swing Somebody (elbow swing or two hand swing). I might add: and Promenade.
> End with: … “into the middle if you’ve just got married!” Then the Virginia
> Reel.
>
>
>
> Often, after that the dancing crowd gets a lot thinner. One of the first
> weddings I called, I think I got trough three dances. After that, waltzes
> and tunes. I thought, “I barely did anything…” Then I got the thank you
> notes: Comments about how great the dance created what the bride and groom
> wanted. I started realizing at weddings we’re offering a service of helping
> people connect with each other, and that can be successful with two or
> three dances. If people use the rest of the time to talk with each other,
> the job can be done.
>
>
>
> That’s not to say I’ve called a lot of weddings when it’s clear a number
> of guests want to keep dancing, and might even get to one hands-four dance
> as Haste to the Wedding or Jefferson & Liberty, but that’s a judgement
> call. It’s just that many times two or three dances brings people together
> in ways other dance forms often fail to do.
>
>
>
> ~Erik Hoffman

[Callers] Re: [External] Putting a square in a contra medley

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

Square to Contra or effective Contra is, as Seth said, incredibly easy. All
it technically takes is
“Sides lead right,” but there are infinite solutions. There is inter-square
choreography in Lloyd Shaw’s book, so the basic idea goes back to at least
the 1930s, and it has been done as a gimmick periodically by my club to
transition to a contra since the 50s.  I believe there is mention of it in
the notes of the Shaw Fellowship.

The challenge with creating squares from a contra is propagating the eight
hands down the line.  If you don’t mind “breaking” the contra flow by
taking a moment for that, then it isn’t too hard—get into becket and count.
  Making it organic is harder. You can use some of these tricks:

1.  With two parallel contra lines: down hall In lines of four, merge to
lines of 8. Face the center, centers Star through, chain, and proceed.

2. Scatter promenade, merge to groups of 4, circle, merge to sets of 8

3. Start with Tempest formation and go.

4. My favorite for a natural propagation: create lines of four, down and
return. Have lead 4 wheel and start a dip and dive. You now have upward and
downward facing lines of four that will self-propagate. Once complete
through all lines, call as you will.

5. Same idea as above, except grand March style with progressively
conjoined alternating peel offs until you have lines of 8.

6. ChainsAw promenade in lines of 4


If you are really leaning into it as a square, or have actual square
dancers, there are other options. You could have them simply come up as 4s,
1st set wheel and call “if you can trade by and everyone repeat.”

Neal

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 6:33 AM Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Ron Buchanan was the first person I saw medley a square into a contra. I
> don't remember him doing the reverse, but he may have.
>
> Going from square into contra is actually pretty easy. Sides chain, get
> the heads in between the sides (say, heads DSD opposite, current corner
> DSD), then go down the hall four in line. Turn alone, come back up, CL 3
> places, partner swing. poof.
>
> I haven't found a method for smoothly going from contra to a square on the
> fly. The best I've done is Circle left, now pause, and change into hands
> eight. Then circle left, open up. Then identify the square - and have sides
> chain across.
>
> Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP (he, him, his)
> Senior IT Manager, Emory Primate Center
> --
> *From:* Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 25, 2023 8:12 AM
> *To:* Contra Callers 
> *Subject:* [External] [Callers] Putting a square in a contra medley
>
> *"if we had more time we'd throw in a square"*
>
> The contra dance medley at NEFFA
>  is
> normally six dances, each six times through (well, the last one is five or
> seven).  I was thinking about what you'd need to do if you actually wanted
> to include a square...
>
> The main problem is that you need to switch the dancers from groups of
> four to groups of eight, and there isn't really a great way to do this.  In
> computer science speak the issue is that it takes time linear in the number
> of dancers.  But maybe you could have the top couple sashay down from the
> top, and everyone takes hands eight as they pass, which is fast enough even
> in a long hall that it's ok (~16 beats, and you adjust the time by figuring
> out how much intro to do on the square)?  And then tell anyone left out at
> the bottom to square up?
>
> (Going back into contra lines from aligned squares should be easier: side
> couples circle left three quarters and twirl to swap, lines at the sides,
> etc)
>
> Would this work?
>
> Jeff
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-- 
Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
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[Callers] Re: Looking for a Tune

[Neal Schlein via Contra Callers]

I'm assuming this a long-ways set for 4-6 couples, but am a bit confused as
to your instructions and the timing.

1. I get that partners are shaking hands, but what is the "1-2-3-4" bit?
Is it "advance to partner 2, shake hands across for 4, and back up 2"?

2. Why are there 24 beats to strip the willow ("arch and file through")
when you are already using 16 beats to invert the line ("all follow C1",
with no return)?  The dancers are already in motion from the invert, so a
total of 24 counts should be fine for both actions.  Even allowing extra
wiggle room for totally new dancers or a few additional couples, I still
don't see it really needing more than 32 beats at a standard community
dance .  (A wedding party, children, or inebriated dancers will change that
math, of course.) The extra counts seem tacked on to "force-phrase" it, as
it were.

Personally, I'm betting that this dance works more like a southern or
western square than a contra: The instructions are correct, but the timing
doesn't add up "right" because it is a social dance and wasn't intended to
fit a 32-bar phrase.  If they did make it fit the phrase, the band probably
did the following:

   - played a crooked / custom tune OR a tune with only a single A or B
   part OR something with minimal phrasing,
   - AND cut the final phrase short or extended it as needed until all the
   lines were ready to resume, resulting in a variable length for the B
   section.

I've had several bands pull that trick for Grand Marches and things like
this dance, and even heard a few expert groups perform mid-phrase resets to
help wayward callers.

Regardless, since we are talking about recordings and not a band, this
dance as described will struggle to fit a standard, heavily phrased 32-bar
contra tune beginning with A1--at a minimum, you'd have to move the
handshake to the end of the dance and so you can use it during a pick-up
phrase.

Failing finding something like that (and I don't have any specific
recordings in mind), my suggestion is to use a minimally-phrased or
repetitive tune suited for squares...or reconcile yourself to crossing
phrases.  (It's a dance best suited for new dancers, after all; most won't
notice the difference.)

Hope that helps.

Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS


On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 1:24 PM Linda S. Mrosko via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Music speaks and tells you what to do.
> Thank you, Jiim.  A good demo of what I'm trying to accomplish.
>
> So for those who've asked what the rest of the dance does, it's pretty
> simple because it's a community-style dance.  I was at a party 10-15 years
> ago and it was a large mixed group.  The caller didn't have a name for the
> dance (if anyone recognizes it, let me know), but it ended up being kind of
> fun for this particular crowd:
>
> 8   Shake hands 1, 2; 1-2-3-4; step back
> 16 Top 2/4 couples down inside; turn solo; Rtn
> 16 Top 2/4 couples down outside (all follow C1)
> 24 Same 2/4 couples form an Arch at bottom; the rest file thru to progress
>
> When I say top 2/4 couples, you can alter just the top couple one time
> thru the dance, then have the top 2 couples or the top 3 or top 4, or maybe
> the whole line the last time thru.
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Looking forward,Linda S. Mrosko*
> *(903) 292-3713 (Cell)*
> *contradancetx.com *
>
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