[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Roger Diggle via Contra Callers]

Ridge,

Sorry to hear of your infection.  I confess I don't get unwanted 
earworms often.  When I do, I usually re-imagine it in some way.  Most 
often, I change the time signature.  Turn it into a waltz or a jig or 
something else that it's not.  If you can, imagine it in some Eastern 
European time signature.  An interesting one for contra tunes is 
actually a change in rhythm emphasis rather than the time signature 
itself.  123.123.12  is still 8 beats.  Another good one is 
123.123.12.12.12.


Good luck!

Roger

On 5/3/22 9:49 AM, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers wrote:
Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most 
insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little 
creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm, 
frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and 
the occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing 
this beastly little bug to spread.


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--
Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
   -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Roger Diggle via Contra Callers]

On 5/2/22 10:27 AM, Amy Cann wrote:

versionated


Oh, now THAT's a keeper!



Roger Diggle typed:

Yours to keep!  Use it wisely.

=

Hemiola -

When songs are sung with harmony parts, someone gotta be singin' the 
melody.  When jazz musicians use all-at-once hemiola, sometimes even 
*they* get lost.  Contra dance music, someone *always* gotta be plowin' 
the groove.  Don't always gotta be the same someone.  Short, decorative 
excursions are best.  Be cautious of the phrase boundaries, except for 
dance endings.  Dandy for endings!

My 3¢.

Roger

=




I've been wondering during this whole thread if their version involves
punching the heck out of the hemiola in the B part?

(hemiola: Italian for "I'm going to mess with your head by moving the
emPHAsis to a new syLAHble")

People who aren't paper-trained, don't flinch, ok?
You can do this visually.

Look at this version: http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/113330

and look **carefully** at the beginning of the sixth and seventh lines.

Look at the three heavy black horizontal "BEAMS" -- do you see how
they bind the notes into groups of four? That's the grouping we dance
to - we put our feet down on those "diggachucka, diggachucka"'s.
ONE-234 ONE -234. Our feet land on the ONEs.

Now look carefully at the blobby dark oval HEADS of the notes.

Do you see the four little slanty LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH, LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH bunches?

That's the hemiola.

For fiddlers, whacking that LOW note comes natural. The bow just
automatically stomps on it. ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23

So you end up with an internally conflicted

ONE-two-three-ONEtwo-three-ONE-two  three-ONE-two-three.

which in playwriting is delicious. Internal conflicts are the spice of drama.

But in a dance?

IF the fiddlers whack the threes AND the rhythm section stays true and honest,
the bass/guitar/piano keep up a steady BOOM chuck  BOOM chuck,
you have zesty syncopation on top of expected solidity and all is well.

BUT.

If the band decides to be all cool and EVERYbody hits the threes,
everyone jumps on the hemiola accents with both feet, the dancers will
start to fall over theirs.


There's an obscure tune called "Catharsis" that sometimes inspires
this same unfortunate circumstance, which the composer regrets.




On 5/2/22, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
 wrote:

Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ

Jeff

On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:09 AM Roger Diggle via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:


Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated.  Without knowing
their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits.

Another way to look at the problem ...  If they really want to play the
tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of
there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to
create a square version.  Next questions: Do they actually understand
what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things,
in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or
dancers?  Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with
that?

If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be
accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several
possibilities.  Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form
a square  You could concoct a C-C part.  Then play the tune,
alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C.  Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar
rectangle that does not internally repeat  [as chestnut Maggie Brown's
Favorite does]  Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig]
If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A
rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating
A-A B-B  until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations,
but always the A-A in the lead.

I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go
for that.  Could even be A-B-C-D-E.  If anyone is interested, I'll
supply those dances.  Most are old contra-corners patterns, which
deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine
treatment.

Roger Diggle

--
Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
 -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire



*From:* Laur via Contra Callers
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM
*To:* Contra Callers 
*Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune

A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance
set. It’s a popular band.
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play
for
a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for
the
caller.

Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning
to
request they don’t include the tune.

I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
that for this set.

Laurie


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers]

I read the Mark Twain and now I'm frankly afraid to read the Homer Price.

But I did get a chuckle from Twain before the relentless earworm returned
right there, PUNCH in the presence of the passenjare. Allemande left like a
rabbit and a hare, then promenade all with nare' a bear care.

Jerome



On Tue, May 3, 2022, 9:47 PM David Harding via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Mark Twain was familiar with the concept of an ear worm.
> https://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/mark-twain-a-literary-nig.html
>
> Robert McCloskey's Homer Price also encountered an ear worm in "Pie and
> Punch and You-Know-Whats", the last chapter of "Centerburg Tales".
> https://www.audible.com/pd/Homer-Price-and-Centerburg-Tales-by-Robert-McCloskey-Pie-and-Punch-and-You-Know-Whats-Podcast/B08ZM4JTQF
>
>
> On 5/3/2022 12:20 PM, Becky Liddle via Contra Callers wrote:
>
> The key to ear worm relief is that the substitute tune must (a) not have
> any tempting/endless-loop repeats in it, (b) should be interesting/varied
> enough to hold your attention long enough to blot out the ear worm, and (c)
> must have a clear & final/satisfying ending.
> My go-to is Stars & Stripes Forever (yes, there are repeats, but first you
> add the trombones, then you add the piccolo, and trying to keep both
> countermelodies going in your head at the same time is enough of a
> challenge to stamp out any worm).
> Becky
>
> On May 3, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Robert Golder via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I find earworm relief in *Clair de Lune* by Claude Debussy (solo piano).
> Best wishes … Bob
>
> On May 3, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> You need an EarwormCancellationDevice  (I forget how to say it in German).
>
> It's a tune -- personal to you, everyone has their own -- that when
> you sing or hum it will nudge the parasite out and take its place, and
> then you can stop singing *it*. It's a two-step process.
>
> The person who educated me about this uses "Simple Gifts", my own is
> Le Marche De Rois from Bizet's L'Arlesienne.
>
> On 5/3/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
>  wrote:
>
> Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
> insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
> creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
> frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and the
> occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
> this beastly little bug to spread.
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[David Harding via Contra Callers]

Mark Twain was familiar with the concept of an ear worm. 
https://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/mark-twain-a-literary-nig.html


Robert McCloskey's Homer Price also encountered an ear worm in "Pie and 
Punch and You-Know-Whats", the last chapter of "Centerburg Tales". 
https://www.audible.com/pd/Homer-Price-and-Centerburg-Tales-by-Robert-McCloskey-Pie-and-Punch-and-You-Know-Whats-Podcast/B08ZM4JTQF



On 5/3/2022 12:20 PM, Becky Liddle via Contra Callers wrote:
The key to ear worm relief is that the substitute tune must (a) not 
have any tempting/endless-loop repeats in it, (b) should be 
interesting/varied enough to hold your attention long enough to blot 
out the ear worm, and (c) must have a clear & final/satisfying ending.
My go-to is Stars & Stripes Forever (yes, there are repeats, but first 
you add the trombones, then you add the piccolo, and trying to keep 
both countermelodies going in your head at the same time is enough of 
a challenge to stamp out any worm).

Becky

On May 3, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Robert Golder via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


I find earworm relief in /Clair de Lune/ by Claude Debussy (solo 
piano). Best wishes … Bob


On May 3, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


You need an EarwormCancellationDevice  (I forget how to say it in 
German).


It's a tune -- personal to you, everyone has their own -- that when
you sing or hum it will nudge the parasite out and take its place, and
then you can stop singing *it*. It's a two-step process.

The person who educated me about this uses "Simple Gifts", my own is
Le Marche De Rois from Bizet's L'Arlesienne.

On 5/3/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
 wrote:

Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies 
and the

occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
this beastly little bug to spread.


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers]

I am alternately gobsmacked, impressed, and amused to learn that so much
time, thought and consideration has gone into the understanding, treatment,
and cure for the common earworm. Huzzahs all ‘round. Thank you.
Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]


>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Becky Liddle via Contra Callers]

The key to ear worm relief is that the substitute tune must (a) not have any 
tempting/endless-loop repeats in it, (b) should be interesting/varied enough to 
hold your attention long enough to blot out the ear worm, and (c) must have a 
clear & final/satisfying ending. 
My go-to is Stars & Stripes Forever (yes, there are repeats, but first you add 
the trombones, then you add the piccolo, and trying to keep both 
countermelodies going in your head at the same time is enough of a challenge to 
stamp out any worm). 
Becky

> On May 3, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Robert Golder via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I find earworm relief in Clair de Lune by Claude Debussy (solo piano). Best 
> wishes … Bob
> 
>> On May 3, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> You need an EarwormCancellationDevice  (I forget how to say it in German).
>> 
>> It's a tune -- personal to you, everyone has their own -- that when
>> you sing or hum it will nudge the parasite out and take its place, and
>> then you can stop singing *it*. It's a two-step process.
>> 
>> The person who educated me about this uses "Simple Gifts", my own is
>> Le Marche De Rois from Bizet's L'Arlesienne.
>> 
>> On 5/3/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
>> > > wrote:
>>> Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
>>> insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
>>> creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
>>> frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and the
>>> occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
>>> this beastly little bug to spread.
>>> 
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Robert Golder via Contra Callers]

I find earworm relief in Clair de Lune by Claude Debussy (solo piano). Best 
wishes … Bob

> On May 3, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> You need an EarwormCancellationDevice  (I forget how to say it in German).
> 
> It's a tune -- personal to you, everyone has their own -- that when
> you sing or hum it will nudge the parasite out and take its place, and
> then you can stop singing *it*. It's a two-step process.
> 
> The person who educated me about this uses "Simple Gifts", my own is
> Le Marche De Rois from Bizet's L'Arlesienne.
> 
> On 5/3/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
>  wrote:
>> Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
>> insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
>> creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
>> frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and the
>> occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
>> this beastly little bug to spread.
>> 
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

You need an EarwormCancellationDevice  (I forget how to say it in German).

It's a tune -- personal to you, everyone has their own -- that when
you sing or hum it will nudge the parasite out and take its place, and
then you can stop singing *it*. It's a two-step process.

The person who educated me about this uses "Simple Gifts", my own is
Le Marche De Rois from Bizet's L'Arlesienne.

On 5/3/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
> insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
> creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
> frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and the
> occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
> this beastly little bug to spread.
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers]

Curse you callers & musicians. I am now infected with one of the most
insidious of parasites: The earworm Baumontum Raggus. The nasty little
creature is crawling through my subconscious at a leisurely 86 bpm,
frequently raising its volume and causing erratic shoulder shimmies and the
occasional bobbing of the head. Shame on all of you for allowing
this beastly little bug to spread.
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

I think the reason I hear it as AABB is that it has two 32-beat sections:
one that starts on the IV (I think -- I don't have an instrument in front
of me) and one that starts on the I.  And each of those sections divides
into two 16-beat sections, each of which start with the same ~8 beats
before diverging.

I learned the tune by dancing to it and playing it, though, so I don't know
how it would typically be written down.

Jeff

On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 4:30 PM jim saxe  wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Based on how I hear the tune with my not-very-musically-educated ears, I
> can understand why you might describe it as AABB (with the A and B parts
> both having first and second endings). But if you happen to have published
> sources for the tune, I'd be interested in knowing whether they notate it
> that way.
>
> --Jim
>
> > On May 2, 2022, at 10:32 AM, Jeff Kaufman 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > I'd describe the one I linked (
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ) as AABB.  He's not playing
> it the same each time through, and parts have various fancy endings, but I
> still hear AABB.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:23 PM jim saxe  wrote:
> > Jeff,
> >
> > How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont
> Rag that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else?
> >
> > In the instructional video
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU
> >
> > the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the
> tune. At about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature
> appears in the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as
> "measure number one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming
> of the notes, I'd infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music
> in the tablature includes what contra dance writers and callers would
> typically refer to as "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or
> "two bars" of music.
> >
> > --Jim
> >
> > > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well
> phrased: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > 
> >
>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

Jeff,

Based on how I hear the tune with my not-very-musically-educated ears, I can 
understand why you might describe it as AABB (with the A and B parts both 
having first and second endings). But if you happen to have published sources 
for the tune, I'd be interested in knowing whether they notate it that way.

--Jim

> On May 2, 2022, at 10:32 AM, Jeff Kaufman  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I'd describe the one I linked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ) 
> as AABB.  He's not playing it the same each time through, and parts have 
> various fancy endings, but I still hear AABB.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:23 PM jim saxe  wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag 
> that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else?
> 
> In the instructional video
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU
> 
> the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At 
> about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in 
> the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number 
> one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd 
> infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature 
> includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as 
> "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music.
> 
> --Jim
> 
> > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
> > 
> > Jeff
> 
> 

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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

Hi Jim,

I'd describe the one I linked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ)
as AABB.  He's not playing it the same each time through, and parts have
various fancy endings, but I still hear AABB.

Jeff

On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 12:23 PM jim saxe  wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag
> that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else?
>
> In the instructional video
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU
>
> the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune.
> At about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears
> in the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure
> number one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the
> notes, I'd infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the
> tablature includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically
> refer to as "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars"
> of music.
>
> --Jim
>
> > On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
> >
> > Jeff
> 
>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

Amy,

Thanks for the lesson about hemiolas.

Since your ears are far more musically educated than mine, perhaps you can say 
somethinng informative about this rendition of Beaumont Rag by Mark O'Connor 
that I cited in an earlier message:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJuXNiybth0

For the first 30 or 40 seconds, I find both the beat and the phrasing pretty 
clear. Then he starts doing some things that I think wouldn't work well at a 
contra dance unless there were some other band member(s) keeping the dancers on 
track, Then he goes back to playing with clear beat and phrasing for a while, 
then off on another flight of fancy, etc.

On any of those "flights of fancy" is he doing the "punchign the hemiola" thing 
that you write about? Can you offer any technical insight into what other 
things he's doing--and just why they may be confusing for dances though 
enjoyable for listeners--at a level that would be accessible to us musical 
muggles out here?

--Jim

> On May 2, 2022, at 8:27 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> ...

> I've been wondering during this whole thread if their version involves
> punching the heck out of the hemiola in the B part?
> 
> (hemiola: Italian for "I'm going to mess with your head by moving the
> emPHAsis to a new syLAHble")
> 
> People who aren't paper-trained, don't flinch, ok?
> You can do this visually.
> 
> Look at this version: http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/113330
> 
> and look **carefully** at the beginning of the sixth and seventh lines.
> 
> Look at the three heavy black horizontal "BEAMS" -- do you see how
> they bind the notes into groups of four? That's the grouping we dance
> to - we put our feet down on those "diggachucka, diggachucka"'s.
> ONE-234 ONE -234. Our feet land on the ONEs.
> 
> Now look carefully at the blobby dark oval HEADS of the notes.
> 
> Do you see the four little slanty LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH, LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH bunches?
> 
> That's the hemiola.
> 
> For fiddlers, whacking that LOW note comes natural. The bow just
> automatically stomps on it. ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23
> 
> So you end up with an internally conflicted
> 
> ONE-two-three-ONEtwo-three-ONE-two  three-ONE-two-three.
> 
> which in playwriting is delicious. Internal conflicts are the spice of drama.
> 
> But in a dance?
> 
> IF the fiddlers whack the threes AND the rhythm section stays true and honest,
> the bass/guitar/piano keep up a steady BOOM chuck  BOOM chuck,
> you have zesty syncopation on top of expected solidity and all is well.
> 
> BUT.
> 
> If the band decides to be all cool and EVERYbody hits the threes,
> everyone jumps on the hemiola accents with both feet, the dancers will
> start to fall over theirs.
> 
> 
> There's an obscure tune called "Catharsis" that sometimes inspires
> this same unfortunate circumstance, which the composer regrets.
> 

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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

Can I just say that I really enjoy the depth of the rabbit holes we're
willing to go down on here, and how much fun it is to take a dive
along with *other people* who don't think it's weird at all?

On 5/2/22, jim saxe via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag
> that you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else?
>
> In the instructional video
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU
>
> the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At
> about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in
> the upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number
> one." The time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd
> infer that it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature
> includes what contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as
> "four beats" or "four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music.
>
> --Jim
>
>> On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
>>
>> Jeff
> 
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

Jeff,

How would you describe the phrase structure of the version of Beaumont Rag that 
you just cited? A A B B? A1 A2 B1 B2? A B? Something else?

In the instructional video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2Wb6nIjlU

the narrator begins (0:00-0:39) by playing a similar version of the tune. At 
about 1:19, he says, "It's in A B form." At about 2:00 tablature appears in the 
upper right corner for what the narrator describes as "measure number one." The 
time signature isn't shown, but from the beaming of the notes, I'd infer that 
it's 4/4. In any case, each "measure" of music in the tablature includes what 
contra dance writers and callers would typically refer to as "four beats" or 
"four counts" or "two measures" or "two bars" of music.

--Jim

> On May 2, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
> 
> Jeff


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

>versionated

Oh, now THAT's a keeper!

***

I've been wondering during this whole thread if their version involves
punching the heck out of the hemiola in the B part?

(hemiola: Italian for "I'm going to mess with your head by moving the
emPHAsis to a new syLAHble")

People who aren't paper-trained, don't flinch, ok?
You can do this visually.

Look at this version: http://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/113330

and look **carefully** at the beginning of the sixth and seventh lines.

Look at the three heavy black horizontal "BEAMS" -- do you see how
they bind the notes into groups of four? That's the grouping we dance
to - we put our feet down on those "diggachucka, diggachucka"'s.
ONE-234 ONE -234. Our feet land on the ONEs.

Now look carefully at the blobby dark oval HEADS of the notes.

Do you see the four little slanty LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH, LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH bunches?

That's the hemiola.

For fiddlers, whacking that LOW note comes natural. The bow just
automatically stomps on it. ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23 ONE-23

So you end up with an internally conflicted

ONE-two-three-ONEtwo-three-ONE-two  three-ONE-two-three.

which in playwriting is delicious. Internal conflicts are the spice of drama.

But in a dance?

IF the fiddlers whack the threes AND the rhythm section stays true and honest,
the bass/guitar/piano keep up a steady BOOM chuck  BOOM chuck,
you have zesty syncopation on top of expected solidity and all is well.

BUT.

If the band decides to be all cool and EVERYbody hits the threes,
everyone jumps on the hemiola accents with both feet, the dancers will
start to fall over theirs.


There's an obscure tune called "Catharsis" that sometimes inspires
this same unfortunate circumstance, which the composer regrets.




On 5/2/22, Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ
>
> Jeff
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:09 AM Roger Diggle via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated.  Without knowing
>> their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits.
>>
>> Another way to look at the problem ...  If they really want to play the
>> tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of
>> there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to
>> create a square version.  Next questions: Do they actually understand
>> what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things,
>> in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or
>> dancers?  Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with
>> that?
>>
>> If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be
>> accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several
>> possibilities.  Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form
>> a square  You could concoct a C-C part.  Then play the tune,
>> alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C.  Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar
>> rectangle that does not internally repeat  [as chestnut Maggie Brown's
>> Favorite does]  Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig]
>> If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A
>> rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating
>> A-A B-B  until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations,
>> but always the A-A in the lead.
>>
>> I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go
>> for that.  Could even be A-B-C-D-E.  If anyone is interested, I'll
>> supply those dances.  Most are old contra-corners patterns, which
>> deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine
>> treatment.
>>
>> Roger Diggle
>>
>> --
>> Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
>> -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire
>>
>>
>> > *From:* Laur via Contra Callers
>> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM
>> > *To:* Contra Callers 
>> > *Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune
>> >
>> > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance
>> > set. It’s a popular band.
>> > I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play
>> > for
>> > a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for
>> > the
>> > caller.
>> >
>> > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning
>> > to
>> > request they don’t include the tune.
>> >
>> > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
>> > that for this set.
>> >
>> > Laurie
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.

[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

Here's a common version of Beaumont Rag that's square and well phrased:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTuWotf7TQ

Jeff

On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:09 AM Roger Diggle via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated.  Without knowing
> their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits.
>
> Another way to look at the problem ...  If they really want to play the
> tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of
> there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to
> create a square version.  Next questions: Do they actually understand
> what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things,
> in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or
> dancers?  Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with
> that?
>
> If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be
> accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several
> possibilities.  Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form
> a square  You could concoct a C-C part.  Then play the tune,
> alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C.  Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar
> rectangle that does not internally repeat  [as chestnut Maggie Brown's
> Favorite does]  Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig]
> If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A
> rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating
> A-A B-B  until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations,
> but always the A-A in the lead.
>
> I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go
> for that.  Could even be A-B-C-D-E.  If anyone is interested, I'll
> supply those dances.  Most are old contra-corners patterns, which
> deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine
> treatment.
>
> Roger Diggle
>
> --
> Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
> -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire
>
>
> > *From:* Laur via Contra Callers
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM
> > *To:* Contra Callers 
> > *Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune
> >
> > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance
> > set. It’s a popular band.
> > I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for
> > a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
> > caller.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
> > request they don’t include the tune.
> >
> > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
> > that for this set.
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>
> ___
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>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Roger Diggle via Contra Callers]

Beaumont Rag is a tune that is incredibly versionated.  Without knowing 
their particular version, no way to create a dance that fits.


Another way to look at the problem ...  If they really want to play the 
tune for dancing, there is no reason they cannot concoct a version of 
there own, using the grab-bag of pieces that are laying around, to 
create a square version.  Next questions: Do they actually understand 
what a square version is? Do they have a feel for the kinds of things, 
in actual square tunes, that sometimes confuse the caller and/or 
dancers?  Do you or they know a musician or caller that could help with 
that?


If they feel like they'd like to use more pieces than can be 
accommodated by typical A-A-B-B construction, there are several 
possibilities.  Think about A-A and B-B each being rectangles that form 
a square  You could concoct a C-C part.  Then play the tune, 
alternately, A-A B-B / A-A C-C.  Also possible - perhaps a 16 bar 
rectangle that does not internally repeat  [as chestnut Maggie Brown's 
Favorite does]  Or A-B-C-D, [like chestnuts Opera Reel and Chorus Jig] 
If I were doing this project, I would be inclined to play the A-A 
rectangle alternating with other rectangles, beginning by alternating 
A-A B-B  until the dancers get a grip, then throw in other alternations, 
but always the A-A in the lead.


I have a batch of dances that fit variants of A-A-B-B-C, if they'd go 
for that.  Could even be A-B-C-D-E.  If anyone is interested, I'll 
supply those dances.  Most are old contra-corners patterns, which 
deserve more circulation than they get - with some stretch limousine 
treatment.


Roger Diggle

--
Food for thought is no substitute for the real thing.
   -- Walt Kelly, cartoonist extraordinaire


*From:* Laur via Contra Callers 
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM

*To:* Contra Callers 
*Subject:* [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune

A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance 
set. It’s a popular band.
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for 
a dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the 
caller.


Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune.


I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in 
that for this set.


Laurie


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Okay. Thanks for the feedback! I may run it a little shorter. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, April 30, 2022, 1:44 PM, Ridge Kennedy  wrote:

I'm sensitive to that sort of thing. It's not been an issue at all that I've 
experienced. ( I've danced it a few times). The circular motion gets reversed a 
couple of times. I guess it could be an issue for some dancers but ... Not in 
my experience and I've not gotten negative feedback. My two cents. R

Ridge Kennedy
West Orange, NJ (Exit 145)
If you stumble, make it part of the dance.
On Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:37 PM Laur  wrote:

Ragtime Sammy fun. And Works to the tempo That band plays too however when I 
walk it through it seems like it could be rather dizzying ? 

Laurie 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 29, 2022, 12:25 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
 wrote:

HOW HAVE I NOT KNOWN THIS DANCE BEFORE THIS MOMENT??

On 4/28/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Balance the Star qualifies as a chestnut and works well. The stars
> encourage a little hand jive action that is a lot of fun.
>
> Here's my go-to dance for raggy tune sets which stole a good bit from
> Balance the Star -- and Beaumont would work just fine with it.
>
> (And per what I think others said, tembo matters. It's no fun -- not even
> very raggy at -- warp speed.)
>
> Ragtime Sammy
>
>
> Contra, Duple, Improper
>
> Ridge Kennedy
>
>        20
>
> A-1  Right Hands Across Star                    (8)      Left Hands Across
> Star                          (8)
>
> A-2  Gents Turn Back over right shoulder (peel off) make eye contact
> and and swing Neighbor
> (a short gypsy)                                    (4-6)    Long Swing
>                                      (12-10)
>
> B-1  Circle Left Three Quarters                (8)      Partner
> Swing                                          (8)
>
> B-2  Ladies Allemande Right 1 1/2        (8)      Neighbor Allemande Left
> 1 1/2            (8)
>
> Notes: The first version of this dance was made up in about 2013 for a
> dance with Big Phat American K-Lee Band in Glen Echo. Early in the program
> – maybe first dance, the band was going to do a set of rags.  So we wanted
> a dance that would work well with rags and that was pretty easy – a starter
> upper. The only tricky bit here is moving from the allemande left with
> neighbors to the next star. Just keep dancers mindful of which way they
> will be going to progress, and it will work out fine.
>
> The idea behind using the hands across stars was to encourage dancers to
> use their free hands to do a little hand jive if the music so inspired
> them.  And so it did.  The final ending sequence for the dance was finally
> locked in place during 2015, I think.  For all the time the dance was
> evolving it was my “raggy, starry hand jive dance.”  Recently though,
> noting that bands frequently included Ragtime Annie in their raggy sets and
> since (little known secret here) my first name is Samuel – well Ragtime
> Sammy seems like a fitting title. Yeah, it’s a silly little dance, but when
> the music is right, dancers really do feel encouraged to get into the hand
> jive and more.
> Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]
>
> Hey -- I wrote a book! *Murder & Miss Austen's Ball. *
> It's a novel with musical accompaniment. Now that's different.
>
> Read all about it here! 
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:17 AM Colin Hume via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra
>> Callers wrote:
>> > Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple
>> dance, usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
>> > may not be what you want for your crowd.
>>
>> That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
>> https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
>> and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers
>> can't get that across there is general confusion.
>>
>> Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag
>> and similar":
>>
>> Country of Marriage
>>
>> Longways      Becket, single prog.              32 bar rags
>>
>> A1:    Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.
>>
>> A2:    Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way
>> (rapidly).  Swing neighbour, finish facing across.
>>
>> B1:    Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man;
>> allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to
>> left.
>>
>> B2:    Balance and swing partner.
>>
>> Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992.
>>
>> Colin Hume
>>
>> Email co...@colinhume.com      Web site http://colinhume.com
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers]

I'm sensitive to that sort of thing. It's not been an issue at all that
I've experienced. ( I've danced it a few times). The circular motion gets
reversed a couple of times. I guess it could be an issue for some dancers
but ... Not in my experience and I've not gotten negative feedback. My two
cents. R

Ridge Kennedy
West Orange, NJ (Exit 145)
If you stumble, make it part of the dance.

On Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:37 PM Laur  wrote:

> Ragtime Sammy fun. And Works to the tempo That band plays too however when
> I walk it through it seems like it could be rather dizzying ?
>
> Laurie
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
>
> On Friday, April 29, 2022, 12:25 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> HOW HAVE I NOT KNOWN THIS DANCE BEFORE THIS MOMENT??
>
> On 4/28/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
>  wrote:
> > Balance the Star qualifies as a chestnut and works well. The stars
> > encourage a little hand jive action that is a lot of fun.
> >
> > Here's my go-to dance for raggy tune sets which stole a good bit from
> > Balance the Star -- and Beaumont would work just fine with it.
> >
> > (And per what I think others said, tembo matters. It's no fun -- not even
> > very raggy at -- warp speed.)
> >
> > Ragtime Sammy
> >
> >
> > Contra, Duple, Improper
> >
> > Ridge Kennedy
> >
> >20
> >
> > A-1  Right Hands Across Star(8)  Left Hands
> Across
> > Star  (8)
> >
> > A-2  Gents Turn Back over right shoulder (peel off) make eye contact
> > and and swing Neighbor
> > (a short gypsy)(4-6)Long Swing
> >  (12-10)
> >
> > B-1  Circle Left Three Quarters(8)  Partner
> > Swing  (8)
> >
> > B-2  Ladies Allemande Right 1 1/2(8)  Neighbor Allemande Left
> > 1 1/2(8)
> >
> > Notes: The first version of this dance was made up in about 2013 for a
> > dance with Big Phat American K-Lee Band in Glen Echo. Early in the
> program
> > – maybe first dance, the band was going to do a set of rags.  So we
> wanted
> > a dance that would work well with rags and that was pretty easy – a
> starter
> > upper. The only tricky bit here is moving from the allemande left with
> > neighbors to the next star. Just keep dancers mindful of which way they
> > will be going to progress, and it will work out fine.
> >
> > The idea behind using the hands across stars was to encourage dancers to
> > use their free hands to do a little hand jive if the music so inspired
> > them.  And so it did.  The final ending sequence for the dance was
> finally
> > locked in place during 2015, I think.  For all the time the dance was
> > evolving it was my “raggy, starry hand jive dance.”  Recently though,
> > noting that bands frequently included Ragtime Annie in their raggy sets
> and
> > since (little known secret here) my first name is Samuel – well Ragtime
> > Sammy seems like a fitting title. Yeah, it’s a silly little dance, but
> when
> > the music is right, dancers really do feel encouraged to get into the
> hand
> > jive and more.
> > Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]
> >
> > Hey -- I wrote a book! *Murder & Miss Austen's Ball. *
> > It's a novel with musical accompaniment. Now that's different.
> >
> > Read all about it here! 
>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:17 AM Colin Hume via Contra Callers <
> > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra
> >> Callers wrote:
> >> > Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple
> >> dance, usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
> >> > may not be what you want for your crowd.
> >>
> >> That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
> >> https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
> >> and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers
> >> can't get that across there is general confusion.
> >>
> >> Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag
> >> and similar":
> >>
> >> Country of Marriage
> >>
> >> Longways  Becket, single prog.  32 bar rags
> >>
> >> A1:Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.
> >>
> >> A2:Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way
> >> (rapidly).  Swing neighbour, finish facing across.
> >>
> >> B1:Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man;
> >> allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to
> >> left.
> >>
> >> B2:Balance and swing partner.
> >>
> >> Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992.
> >>
> >> Colin Hume
> >>
> >> Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://colinhume.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.

[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Ragtime Sammy fun. And Works to the tempo That band plays too however when I 
walk it through it seems like it could be rather dizzying ? 

Laurie 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 29, 2022, 12:25 AM, Amy Cann via Contra Callers 
 wrote:

HOW HAVE I NOT KNOWN THIS DANCE BEFORE THIS MOMENT??

On 4/28/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Balance the Star qualifies as a chestnut and works well. The stars
> encourage a little hand jive action that is a lot of fun.
>
> Here's my go-to dance for raggy tune sets which stole a good bit from
> Balance the Star -- and Beaumont would work just fine with it.
>
> (And per what I think others said, tembo matters. It's no fun -- not even
> very raggy at -- warp speed.)
>
> Ragtime Sammy
>
>
> Contra, Duple, Improper
>
> Ridge Kennedy
>
>        20
>
> A-1  Right Hands Across Star                    (8)      Left Hands Across
> Star                          (8)
>
> A-2  Gents Turn Back over right shoulder (peel off) make eye contact
> and and swing Neighbor
> (a short gypsy)                                    (4-6)    Long Swing
>                                      (12-10)
>
> B-1  Circle Left Three Quarters                (8)      Partner
> Swing                                          (8)
>
> B-2  Ladies Allemande Right 1 1/2        (8)      Neighbor Allemande Left
> 1 1/2            (8)
>
> Notes: The first version of this dance was made up in about 2013 for a
> dance with Big Phat American K-Lee Band in Glen Echo. Early in the program
> – maybe first dance, the band was going to do a set of rags.  So we wanted
> a dance that would work well with rags and that was pretty easy – a starter
> upper. The only tricky bit here is moving from the allemande left with
> neighbors to the next star. Just keep dancers mindful of which way they
> will be going to progress, and it will work out fine.
>
> The idea behind using the hands across stars was to encourage dancers to
> use their free hands to do a little hand jive if the music so inspired
> them.  And so it did.  The final ending sequence for the dance was finally
> locked in place during 2015, I think.  For all the time the dance was
> evolving it was my “raggy, starry hand jive dance.”  Recently though,
> noting that bands frequently included Ragtime Annie in their raggy sets and
> since (little known secret here) my first name is Samuel – well Ragtime
> Sammy seems like a fitting title. Yeah, it’s a silly little dance, but when
> the music is right, dancers really do feel encouraged to get into the hand
> jive and more.
> Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]
>
> Hey -- I wrote a book! *Murder & Miss Austen's Ball. *
> It's a novel with musical accompaniment. Now that's different.
>
> Read all about it here! 
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:17 AM Colin Hume via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra
>> Callers wrote:
>> > Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple
>> dance, usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
>> > may not be what you want for your crowd.
>>
>> That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
>> https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
>> and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers
>> can't get that across there is general confusion.
>>
>> Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag
>> and similar":
>>
>> Country of Marriage
>>
>> Longways      Becket, single prog.              32 bar rags
>>
>> A1:    Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.
>>
>> A2:    Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way
>> (rapidly).  Swing neighbour, finish facing across.
>>
>> B1:    Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man;
>> allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to
>> left.
>>
>> B2:    Balance and swing partner.
>>
>> Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992.
>>
>> Colin Hume
>>
>> Email co...@colinhume.com      Web site http://colinhume.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

Hi Laurie,

If your experience is that their Beaumont Rag set doesn't work for dancing,
then you can let them know you don't want them to play it with you.
Ideally in advance before your next gig with them so they can work up
something else.

On the other hand, this may be fixable. I've played Beaumont Rag many times
for dances, and it's gone well.  Do you know why the dances are falling
apart? Are they playing too fast? Is the phrasing not matching the dance?
Is the beat unclear?

Jeff

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 3:50 PM Laur via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set.
> It’s a popular band.
> I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a
> dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
> caller.
>
> Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
> request they don’t include the tune.
>
> I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
> that for this set.
>
> Laurie
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[jim saxe via Contra Callers]

Laur,

It's hard to describe stuff about music in words and be sure of being clear, so 
I'm going to illustrate my remarks by citing some recordings.

First, there's at least one version of "Beaumont Rag" that's a perfectly fine 
contra dance contra dance tune. Check out these videos.  (Times in parentheses 
tell when the band switches into "Beaumont Rag" from another tune.)

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG0i8NTYGvc (4:08)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlOk-UULmVc (1:43)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOYAMcYVBg (5:28)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynafcljHXhk
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13PQT9ubOdc
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLulDsc-fg

All the music in these six videos strikes me as quite suitable for contra 
dancing. In the ones that give a good view of the dancers, they don't seem to 
be struggling. Even when you can't see the dancers, you can tell by the sound 
that things are going well. In particular, you won't hear any callers who sound 
like they're sweating bullets trying to keep the dance together.

The versions of the tune in the videos above certainly aren't note for note 
identical, and some bands put in a fair amount of variation from one round of 
the tune to the next, but they all stick closely to the same basic phrasing.

If your local band plays "Beaumont Rag" and it doesn’t work for the dancers and 
it’s agonizing for the callers, then I wonder what they're doing that's 
different from what's happening in the videos above.

Bill Olson wrote:

> ... there are SO many ways Beaumont Rag is played. Not all of them are 32 
> bars long. and it is often played as a "show off' tune at Bluegrass 
> festivals, i.e. REALLY FAST!!!


The tempos in the videos above range from about 111 to 127 beats per minute. 
Illustrating Bill's point about people sometimes playing real fast, here's a 
recording I found at a beat or two above 140:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HxHClfJso

And here are some examples, at various tempos, illustrating Bill's point about 
not all versions being 32 bars long:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhcKJTW9Hg
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2IRu8quLRs
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NB8IPHdiXo&t=1347s
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRCyqaNxas
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQeNPeQpZJY
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKdAupCMDPw

In fact, none of these six is entirely in 8-bar (16-beat) phrases. If you 
listen to any of them and try counting along from 1 to 16 over and over, you'll 
find that at some point you get to "8" or "4" and the music signals strongly 
that it's time to start again at "1".

If your local band's version of "Beaumont Rag" is like any of those last six, 
then regardless of the tempo it won't be a good fit for any standard-length 
contra dance and it won't be a good fit for "Balance the Star" or "Anna Turn's 
Five" or other dances that people have been suggesting, either.

Another thing that could be going wrong is that there's something about the 
band's style of playing for that particular tune that somehow obscures the 
phrasing. Take a listen to this guitar version of "Beaumont Rag" played with 
undeniable skill by Mark O'Connor:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJuXNiybth0

I _think_ it's mostly (perhaps entirely?) in 8-bar phrases, but there are 
places where, at least for me, it's a struggle to keep track. And I don't think 
it's just on account of the high speed. It's something about the ornamentation. 
That sort of playing could be great for a concert, but at a contra dance, I 
think that even if the dancers could dance to it, a lot of them would find it 
more work than fun. (Possibly, however, it could make all the difference in the 
world if another band member were giving the dancers rock-solid phrasing.)

Bill also wrote:

>  the tune is pretty much fun if played AABB at a reasonable tempo. ...

Returning to my opening observation

> It's hard to describe stuff about music in words and be sure of being clear, 


let me offer a final word of caution.  If the issue turns out to be that the 
band plays a "crooked" version of "Beaumont Rag", then even _if_ your 
relationship with the band is such that you could appropriately suggest that a 
different version would work better for contra dancing, and even _if_ you could 
get them completely sold on the idea, and even _if_ they were not merely 
willing but eager to try it (all VERY BIG "if"s), I can almost guarantee 
(without going into the details) that saying "AABB" would _not_ be an adequate 
way to describe the version you're suggesting.

I hope some of this is helpful.

--Jim






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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

> If they're a dance band (rather than a bunch of prima donnas)

-- Colin Hume

> Ay, there’s the rub!

-- Hamlet

>The origin of the term lies in the ancient game of bowls (which Americans may 
>know as lawn bowling; nothing to do with tenpin). A rub is some fault in the 
>surface of the green that stops a bowl or diverts it from its intended 
>direction. The term is recorded first a few years before Shakespeare’s time 
>and is still in use. It appears, too, in golf, in the expression "rub of the 
>green", which refers to an accident that stops a ball in play and for which no 
>relief is allowed under the rules.

-- The Internet

:)

On 4/28/22, Colin Hume via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:08:28 +, Bill Olson via Contra Callers wrote:
>> The BAND is suggesting the dance that you should call to a tune they want
>> to play?? u...
>>
>> That ain't how it works. Make it easy on yourself.. You are in control
>> here.. Just tell the band NOT to play the
> tune..
>
> I don't agree, Bill.  I think a good dance is when dancers, caller and band
> all enjoy it, so I try not to be the man
> saying "I'm in charge - you do what I say".  For instance, I'm calling the
> opening contra dance at May Heydays tomorrow:
> http://mayheydays.org.uk/programme.html
> and the band said they had two good sets of jigs going into reels and asked
> whether these would fit any of my dances, so
> I told them which two and they'll enjoy the change and so will the dancers
> and the caller.
>
> Surely the way to approach it is: "That's a great tune, and it goes well to
> this dance, but it needs to go faster than
> you normally play it" - and then give a tempo indication.  If they're a
> dance band (rather than a bunch of prima donnas)
> they'll welcome the opportunity to get the whole room dancing to a tune they
> really like playing.
>
> Colin Hume
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Colin Hume via Contra Callers]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:08:28 +, Bill Olson via Contra Callers wrote:
> The BAND is suggesting the dance that you should call to a tune they want to 
> play?? u...
>
> That ain't how it works. Make it easy on yourself.. You are in control here.. 
> Just tell the band NOT to play the 
tune..

I don't agree, Bill.  I think a good dance is when dancers, caller and band all 
enjoy it, so I try not to be the man 
saying "I'm in charge - you do what I say".  For instance, I'm calling the 
opening contra dance at May Heydays tomorrow:
http://mayheydays.org.uk/programme.html
and the band said they had two good sets of jigs going into reels and asked 
whether these would fit any of my dances, so 
I told them which two and they'll enjoy the change and so will the dancers and 
the caller.

Surely the way to approach it is: "That's a great tune, and it goes well to 
this dance, but it needs to go faster than 
you normally play it" - and then give a tempo indication.  If they're a dance 
band (rather than a bunch of prima donnas) 
they'll welcome the opportunity to get the whole room dancing to a tune they 
really like playing.

Colin Hume

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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

HOW HAVE I NOT KNOWN THIS DANCE BEFORE THIS MOMENT??

On 4/28/22, Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> Balance the Star qualifies as a chestnut and works well. The stars
> encourage a little hand jive action that is a lot of fun.
>
> Here's my go-to dance for raggy tune sets which stole a good bit from
> Balance the Star -- and Beaumont would work just fine with it.
>
> (And per what I think others said, tembo matters. It's no fun -- not even
> very raggy at -- warp speed.)
>
> Ragtime Sammy
>
>
> Contra, Duple, Improper
>
> Ridge Kennedy
>
>20
>
> A-1  Right Hands Across Star(8)   Left Hands Across
> Star  (8)
>
> A-2  Gents Turn Back over right shoulder (peel off) make eye contact
> and and swing Neighbor
> (a short gypsy) (4-6)Long Swing
>  (12-10)
>
> B-1  Circle Left Three Quarters (8)   Partner
> Swing  (8)
>
> B-2  Ladies Allemande Right 1 1/2 (8)   Neighbor Allemande Left
> 1 1/2 (8)
>
> Notes: The first version of this dance was made up in about 2013 for a
> dance with Big Phat American K-Lee Band in Glen Echo. Early in the program
> – maybe first dance, the band was going to do a set of rags.  So we wanted
> a dance that would work well with rags and that was pretty easy – a starter
> upper. The only tricky bit here is moving from the allemande left with
> neighbors to the next star. Just keep dancers mindful of which way they
> will be going to progress, and it will work out fine.
>
> The idea behind using the hands across stars was to encourage dancers to
> use their free hands to do a little hand jive if the music so inspired
> them.  And so it did.  The final ending sequence for the dance was finally
> locked in place during 2015, I think.  For all the time the dance was
> evolving it was my “raggy, starry hand jive dance.”  Recently though,
> noting that bands frequently included Ragtime Annie in their raggy sets and
> since (little known secret here) my first name is Samuel – well Ragtime
> Sammy seems like a fitting title. Yeah, it’s a silly little dance, but when
> the music is right, dancers really do feel encouraged to get into the hand
> jive and more.
> Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]
>
> Hey -- I wrote a book! *Murder & Miss Austen's Ball. *
> It's a novel with musical accompaniment. Now that's different.
>
> Read all about it here! 
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:17 AM Colin Hume via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra
>> Callers wrote:
>> > Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple
>> dance, usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
>> > may not be what you want for your crowd.
>>
>> That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
>> https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
>> and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers
>> can't get that across there is general confusion.
>>
>> Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag
>> and similar":
>>
>> Country of Marriage
>>
>> Longways  Becket, single prog.  32 bar rags
>>
>> A1: Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.
>>
>> A2: Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way
>> (rapidly).  Swing neighbour, finish facing across.
>>
>> B1: Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man;
>> allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to
>> left.
>>
>> B2: Balance and swing partner.
>>
>> Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992.
>>
>> Colin Hume
>>
>> Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://colinhume.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Ridge Kennedy via Contra Callers]

Balance the Star qualifies as a chestnut and works well. The stars
encourage a little hand jive action that is a lot of fun.

Here's my go-to dance for raggy tune sets which stole a good bit from
Balance the Star -- and Beaumont would work just fine with it.

(And per what I think others said, tembo matters. It's no fun -- not even
very raggy at -- warp speed.)

Ragtime Sammy


Contra, Duple, Improper

Ridge Kennedy

   20

A-1  Right Hands Across Star(8)   Left Hands Across
Star  (8)

A-2  Gents Turn Back over right shoulder (peel off) make eye contact
and and swing Neighbor
(a short gypsy) (4-6)Long Swing
 (12-10)

B-1  Circle Left Three Quarters (8)   Partner
Swing  (8)

B-2  Ladies Allemande Right 1 1/2 (8)   Neighbor Allemande Left
1 1/2 (8)

Notes: The first version of this dance was made up in about 2013 for a
dance with Big Phat American K-Lee Band in Glen Echo. Early in the program
– maybe first dance, the band was going to do a set of rags.  So we wanted
a dance that would work well with rags and that was pretty easy – a starter
upper. The only tricky bit here is moving from the allemande left with
neighbors to the next star. Just keep dancers mindful of which way they
will be going to progress, and it will work out fine.

The idea behind using the hands across stars was to encourage dancers to
use their free hands to do a little hand jive if the music so inspired
them.  And so it did.  The final ending sequence for the dance was finally
locked in place during 2015, I think.  For all the time the dance was
evolving it was my “raggy, starry hand jive dance.”  Recently though,
noting that bands frequently included Ragtime Annie in their raggy sets and
since (little known secret here) my first name is Samuel – well Ragtime
Sammy seems like a fitting title. Yeah, it’s a silly little dance, but when
the music is right, dancers really do feel encouraged to get into the hand
jive and more.
Ridge Kennedy [Exit 145]

Hey -- I wrote a book! *Murder & Miss Austen's Ball. *
It's a novel with musical accompaniment. Now that's different.

Read all about it here! 


On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 3:17 AM Colin Hume via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra
> Callers wrote:
> > Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple
> dance, usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
> > may not be what you want for your crowd.
>
> That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
> https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
> and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers
> can't get that across there is general confusion.
>
> Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag
> and similar":
>
> Country of Marriage
>
> Longways  Becket, single prog.  32 bar rags
>
> A1: Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.
>
> A2: Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way
> (rapidly).  Swing neighbour, finish facing across.
>
> B1: Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man;
> allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to
> left.
>
> B2: Balance and swing partner.
>
> Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992.
>
> Colin Hume
>
> Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://colinhume.com
>
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Colin Hume via Contra Callers]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:46:36 -0400, Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers 
wrote:
> Balance The Star was written to go to Beaumont Rag.  It's a simple dance, 
> usually done as a Sicilian Circle, so it
> may not be what you want for your crowd.

That's the one I was going to suggest.  Here's how I explain it:
https://barndances.org.uk/detail.php?Title=Balance_the_Star
and the vital phrase is "turn your back on your partner" - if callers can't get 
that across there is general confusion.

Also a contra by Susan Kevra where she actually specified "Beaumont Rag and 
similar":

Country of Marriage

Longways  Becket, single prog.  32 bar rags

A1: Circle left 3/4.  Do-si-do neighbour to a wave.

A2: Balance right and left; ladies allemande left all the way (rapidly).  
Swing neighbour, finish facing across.

B1: Right & left through.  Men allemande right 3/4 to meet next man; 
allemande left with him 3/4 while ladies move to 
left.

B2: Balance and swing partner.

Dance: Susan Kevra -- English Dance & Song, Winter 1992. 

Colin Hume

Email co...@colinhume.com  Web site http://colinhume.com


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Thank you nice idea


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 10:38 PM, Woody Lane via Contra Callers 
 wrote:

 Hi Laurir,

If the band likes to play Beaumont Rag and can do a good job with it, try 
asking them to slow down to 120-124 and call a square dance to it. Particularly 
a Western or Southern style square (like Texas Star) where you would have lots 
of flexibility with your calls. No matter how the band phrases the tune, you 
could adapt the movements and also your calling and timing so that when the 
band comes around again to A1, you could start a new section of the dance, 
which is always very satisfying for the dancers. That way, you can get the 
upbeat lilting music of that tune to work for you. And the band will be happy 
because they played that tune.

(Says me who once tried calling a square to the tune "Take Five")

Good luck,
Woody

-- 
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer 
Roseburg, Oregon 
http://www.woodylanecaller.com
cell: 541-556-0054

On 4/27/2022 12:51 PM, Laur via Contra Callers wrote:

A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. It’s 
a popular band. 
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the caller. 
Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune. 
I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that for 
this set. 
Laurie 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Good one. I also thought of playing it as a end of break come back to dance 
tune. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 5:14 PM, Tony Parkes  wrote:


My take: Ask them to play it during the sound check.
 
  
 
At the Concord (MA) Scout House the band used to play a “sound check polka” 
just before the first contra. Don’t know how widespread a custom that is. Most 
dancers did a Norwegian polka, though a few did a “standard” polka.
 
  
 
Tony Parkes
 
Billerica, Mass.
 
www.hands4.com
 
New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
 
(available now)
 
  
 
  
 
From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM
To: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune
 
  
 
A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. It’s 
a popular band. 
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the caller. 
 
  
 
Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune. 
 
  
 
I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that for 
this set. 
 
  
 
Laurie 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 


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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[jeff - syncopaths via Contra Callers]

As many have said, much depends on HOW a band plays a tune, but I do often like 
rags for dances with contra corners.

J.

-- 
Jeffrey Spero
Culver City, CA

> On Apr 27, 2022, at 12:50 PM, Laur via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. 
> It’s a popular band. 
> I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
> dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the 
> caller. 
> 
> Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
> request they don’t include the tune. 
> 
> I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that 
> for this set. 
> 
> Laurie 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Woody Lane via Contra Callers]

Hi Laurir,

If the band likes to play Beaumont Rag and can do a good job with it, try 
asking them to slow down to 120-124 and call a square dance to it. Particularly 
a Western or Southern style square (like Texas Star) where you would have lots 
of flexibility with your calls. No matter how the band phrases the tune, you 
could adapt the movements and also your calling and timing so that when the 
band comes around again to A1, you could start a new section of the dance, 
which is always very satisfying for the dancers. That way, you can get the 
upbeat lilting music of that tune to work for you. And the band will be happy 
because they played that tune.

(Says me who once tried calling a square to the tune "Take Five")

Good luck,
Woody

--
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
http://www.woodylanecaller.com
cell: 541-556-0054


On 4/27/2022 12:51 PM, Laur via Contra Callers wrote:
A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. It’s 
a popular band.
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the caller.

Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune.

I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that for 
this set.

Laurie

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Tony Parkes via Contra Callers]

My take: Ask them to play it during the sound check.

At the Concord (MA) Scout House the band used to play a “sound check polka” 
just before the first contra. Don’t know how widespread a custom that is. Most 
dancers did a Norwegian polka, though a few did a “standard” polka.


Tony Parkes

Billerica, Mass.

www.hands4.com

New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century

(available now)


From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 3:50 PM
To: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune

A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. It’s 
a popular band.
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the caller.

Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune.

I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that for 
this set.

Laurie

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers]

Here's a link for Balance The Star:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu17uSab8gI

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 5:02 PM Jack Mitchell via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I frequently will choose a “silly“ dance to go with a rag set. I have
> frequently used happy as a cold pig in warm mud in that slot and encouraged
> significant silliness in forming the stars that are theoretically with
> shadows but can also be five pointed stars or six pointed stars.  As long
> as they play the tune Square it should work.  But really any
> straightforward dance with eight or 16 count phrases that isn’t especially
> Flowey will probably still work. If you can get a recording of them playing
> it for another dance and confirm the phrasing,  Amy’s approach to pairing
> tunes and dances is still pretty much my ideal - both of what I hope is
> going through the band’s head when they match tunes to dances and the way I
> try to think about it when matching dances to tunes (ever since a post some
> years ago on this very list).
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:28 PM Laur via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for detail and yes that’s the deal - its too stylized to know how
>> they will choose to play it and callers that haven’t danced to the band
>> aren’t prepared for the tune and the disconnection the dancers feel on the
>> floor.
>>
>> The musicians are not inexperienced, they are good musicians so it
>> confuses me a bit how they cant see or feel how the dancers on the floor
>> with the dance.
>>
>> I will be respectful when I make the request not to choose to play during
>> the evening. And be prepared to offer a response if they ask.
>>
>> L
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 4:08 PM, Amy Cann 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ragtime tunes actually often go *slower* than flat-out reels.
>>
>> Their grove isn't a fast
>>
>> deedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddle
>>
>> like note-y Irish, or
>>
>> diggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukka
>>
>> like hot southern.
>>
>> They go more like:
>>
>>
>> DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
>> DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
>> DAda, DAAdada, DAda, DAAdada,
>> dadada DA d'da DA - UH!
>>
>> SO -- do NOT do dances that are sinuous and connected and snake-y
>> spaghetti-y.
>>
>> They will feel weird and pointless.
>>
>> Instead, try dances that have that 1 - 2 - 3 - UH!
>> built right in.
>>
>> Long lines forward and back.
>> Allemande 1/2 way to form a line and balance the line.
>> Petronella type turns.
>> Balance and box the gnat.
>>
>> That kind of stuff, where your body makes shapes on the floor that are
>> sharp four-beat lines that reverse and turn around and stop/start on a
>> dime.
>>
>> Steve Zakon's ZigZag has the right idea, but the zigzag thing happens
>> in the B, I think, and Beaumont needs it in the A. The B is where the
>> more connected-y stuff is, where you want the swings.
>>
>>
>> On 4/27/22, Laur via Contra Callers
>>  wrote:
>> > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance
>> set.
>> > It’s a popular band.
>> > I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play
>> for a
>> > dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
>> > caller.
>> > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
>> > request they don’t include the tune.
>> > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
>> that
>> > for this set.
>> > Laurie
>> >
>> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
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>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
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>


-- 
jandnbl...@gmail.com
http://jacobbloom.net/
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Jack Mitchell via Contra Callers]

I frequently will choose a “silly“ dance to go with a rag set. I have
frequently used happy as a cold pig in warm mud in that slot and encouraged
significant silliness in forming the stars that are theoretically with
shadows but can also be five pointed stars or six pointed stars.  As long
as they play the tune Square it should work.  But really any
straightforward dance with eight or 16 count phrases that isn’t especially
Flowey will probably still work. If you can get a recording of them playing
it for another dance and confirm the phrasing,  Amy’s approach to pairing
tunes and dances is still pretty much my ideal - both of what I hope is
going through the band’s head when they match tunes to dances and the way I
try to think about it when matching dances to tunes (ever since a post some
years ago on this very list).

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 4:28 PM Laur via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks for detail and yes that’s the deal - its too stylized to know how
> they will choose to play it and callers that haven’t danced to the band
> aren’t prepared for the tune and the disconnection the dancers feel on the
> floor.
>
> The musicians are not inexperienced, they are good musicians so it
> confuses me a bit how they cant see or feel how the dancers on the floor
> with the dance.
>
> I will be respectful when I make the request not to choose to play during
> the evening. And be prepared to offer a response if they ask.
>
> L
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad 
>
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 4:08 PM, Amy Cann 
> wrote:
>
> Ragtime tunes actually often go *slower* than flat-out reels.
>
> Their grove isn't a fast
>
> deedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddle
>
> like note-y Irish, or
>
> diggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukka
>
> like hot southern.
>
> They go more like:
>
>
> DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
> DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
> DAda, DAAdada, DAda, DAAdada,
> dadada DA d'da DA - UH!
>
> SO -- do NOT do dances that are sinuous and connected and snake-y
> spaghetti-y.
>
> They will feel weird and pointless.
>
> Instead, try dances that have that 1 - 2 - 3 - UH!
> built right in.
>
> Long lines forward and back.
> Allemande 1/2 way to form a line and balance the line.
> Petronella type turns.
> Balance and box the gnat.
>
> That kind of stuff, where your body makes shapes on the floor that are
> sharp four-beat lines that reverse and turn around and stop/start on a
> dime.
>
> Steve Zakon's ZigZag has the right idea, but the zigzag thing happens
> in the B, I think, and Beaumont needs it in the A. The B is where the
> more connected-y stuff is, where you want the swings.
>
>
> On 4/27/22, Laur via Contra Callers
>  wrote:
> > A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance
> set.
> > It’s a popular band.
> > I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for
> a
> > dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
> > caller.
> > Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
> > request they don’t include the tune.
> > I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in
> that
> > for this set.
> > Laurie
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Thanks for detail and yes that’s the deal - its too stylized to know how they 
will choose to play it and callers that haven’t danced to the band aren’t 
prepared for the tune and the disconnection the dancers feel on the floor. 

The musicians are not inexperienced, they are good musicians so it confuses me 
a bit how they cant see or feel how the dancers on the floor with the dance. 
I will be respectful when I make the request not to choose to play during the 
evening. And be prepared to offer a response if they ask.
LSent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 4:08 PM, Amy Cann  wrote:

Ragtime tunes actually often go *slower* than flat-out reels.

Their grove isn't a fast

deedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddle

like note-y Irish, or

diggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukka

like hot southern.

They go more like:


DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
DAda, DAAdada, DAda, DAAdada,
dadada DA d'da DA - UH!

SO -- do NOT do dances that are sinuous and connected and snake-y spaghetti-y.

They will feel weird and pointless.

Instead, try dances that have that 1 - 2 - 3 - UH!
built right in.

Long lines forward and back.
Allemande 1/2 way to form a line and balance the line.
Petronella type turns.
Balance and box the gnat.

That kind of stuff, where your body makes shapes on the floor that are
sharp four-beat lines that reverse and turn around and stop/start on a
dime.

Steve Zakon's ZigZag has the right idea, but the zigzag thing happens
in the B, I think, and Beaumont needs it in the A. The B is where the
more connected-y stuff is, where you want the swings.


On 4/27/22, Laur via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set.
> It’s a popular band.
> I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a
> dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
> caller.
> Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
> request they don’t include the tune.
> I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that
> for this set.
> Laurie
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>



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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Amy Cann via Contra Callers]

Ragtime tunes actually often go *slower* than flat-out reels.

Their grove isn't a fast

deedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddledeedlediddle

like note-y Irish, or

diggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukkadiggachukka

like hot southern.

They go more like:


DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
DAda, da, d'da Da - UH!
DAda, DAAdada, DAda, DAAdada,
dadada DA d'da DA - UH!

SO -- do NOT do dances that are sinuous and connected and snake-y spaghetti-y.

They will feel weird and pointless.

Instead, try dances that have that 1 - 2 - 3 - UH!
built right in.

Long lines forward and back.
Allemande 1/2 way to form a line and balance the line.
Petronella type turns.
Balance and box the gnat.

That kind of stuff, where your body makes shapes on the floor that are
sharp four-beat lines that reverse and turn around and stop/start on a
dime.

Steve Zakon's ZigZag has the right idea, but the zigzag thing happens
in the B, I think, and Beaumont needs it in the A. The B is where the
more connected-y stuff is, where you want the swings.


On 4/27/22, Laur via Contra Callers
 wrote:
> A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set.
> It’s a popular band.
> I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a
> dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the
> caller.
> Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to
> request they don’t include the tune.
> I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that
> for this set.
> Laurie
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
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[Callers] Re: Need help fitting to a tune

[Bill Olson via Contra Callers]

Laur, where are you? Not quite sure I understand here.. The BAND is suggesting 
the dance that you should call to a tune they want to play?? u...

That ain't how it works. Make it easy on yourself.. You are in control here.. 
Just tell the band NOT to play the tune..

That all said, there are SO many ways Beaumont Rag is played. Not all of them 
are 32 bars long. and it is often played as a "show off' tune at Bluegrass 
festivals, i.e. REALLY FAST!!! the tune is pretty much fun if played AABB at a 
reasonable tempo.. Not sure what your local band does with it in a contra dance 
setting, but I'd just politely say 'we're not gonna use that one'..

my $.02  - bill

From: Laur via Contra Callers 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 7:50 PM
To: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Need help fitting to a tune

A local band here plays Beaumont Rag As a part of their routine dance set. It’s 
a popular band.
I’ve never experienced  a contra dance The  band has  chosen to play for a 
dance work. It doesn’t work for the dancers and it’s agonizing for the caller.

Can anyone suggest a dance that could fit? At this point I’m planning to 
request they don’t include the tune.

I know there’s an English dance written to match but not interested in that for 
this set.

Laurie

Sent from Yahoo Mail for 
iPhone
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