[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers]

Like Chris, I'm also confused about how this helps with low dancer numbers.
I also don't see how 4x4 or 3x3 help, since if you only have enough people
for a single line those formations mean more people are out?

Jeff

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 7:01 AM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I think maybe a comment I made may have added to this. When I said I'd use
> dbl prog it was specifically in relation to low dancer #'s and using 4 face
> 4 or 3 face 3. Not contra lines. Rarely would I use a dbl prog unless I
> have longer lines and doing contras.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:39 AM Chris Page via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm dubious about using double progression in short lines.
>>
>> If there's an odd number of couples in the line:
>> In a single progression dance, there's always one couple out,
>> alternating between the top and the bottom of the line.
>> In a double progression dance, there's always one couple out at the
>> bottom of the line.
>>
>> If there's an even number of couples in the line:
>> In a single progression dance, it alternates between 0 and 2 couples
>> out at the ends, for an time-average of 1 couple out.
>> In a double progression dance with two individual progressions (like
>> Awesome Double Progression Dance), for half of one time through the
>> dance, 0 couples are out, and for the other half of the time through a
>> dance, there are 2 couples out at the ends, for a time-average of 1
>> couple out. And you always do the first half of the dance sequence
>> with the same half of the couples.
>> In a double progression dance where you progress all at once (like the
>> left diagonal right-and-left-through of Becket Reel), everyone's
>> always in. But you only dance with half the couples, which is more
>> noticeable in short lines.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Chris Page
>> Los Angeles, CA
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Chris Page via Contra Callers]

I'm dubious about using double progression in short lines.

If there's an odd number of couples in the line:
In a single progression dance, there's always one couple out,
alternating between the top and the bottom of the line.
In a double progression dance, there's always one couple out at the
bottom of the line.

If there's an even number of couples in the line:
In a single progression dance, it alternates between 0 and 2 couples
out at the ends, for an time-average of 1 couple out.
In a double progression dance with two individual progressions (like
Awesome Double Progression Dance), for half of one time through the
dance, 0 couples are out, and for the other half of the time through a
dance, there are 2 couples out at the ends, for a time-average of 1
couple out. And you always do the first half of the dance sequence
with the same half of the couples.
In a double progression dance where you progress all at once (like the
left diagonal right-and-left-through of Becket Reel), everyone's
always in. But you only dance with half the couples, which is more
noticeable in short lines.

Cheers,
-Chris Page
Los Angeles, CA
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Casey Carr via Contra Callers]

I love to use them when I have a small number of couples, because they avoid 
having people having to sit out on the ends for very long. Double progressions 
can also be fun in the middle of the night with a large group to get the 
dancers zooming through the lines and meeting lots of new people. Casey Carr

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2022, at 9:34 AM, Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> When I began calling contras, I was advised to avoid double progression 
> dances in general because they had limited use.
> When do you use such contras?
> 
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford Springs, CT
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 7:06 PM Laur via Contra Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> Thanks Tony, can’t believe I missed that. Excellent point. 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022, 6:57 PM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Remember that double progression dances work better with an odd number of 
>> couples (assuming the end effects are not overwhelming). With an even 
>> number, the dancers will always be doing the same part of the routine with 
>> the same neighbors. This will be even more frustrating in short lines.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Tony Parkes
>> 
>> Billerica, Mass.
>> 
>> www.hands4.com
>> 
>> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
>> 
>> (available now)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Victor Gascon via Contra Callers 
>>  
>> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30 AM
>> To: Mary Collins 
>> Cc: Contra Callers 
>> Subject: [Callers] Re: Short contra lines
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can 
>> recommend?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance 
>> may range from 6 - 30 dancers.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a challenge 
>> for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a double 
>> progression so no one  is ever out.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m 
>> planning dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or 
>> considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or 
>> secondarily less experienced dancers
>> 
>> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is more 
>> of a complex preparation for me. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Laurie Pietravalle 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
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>> --
>> 
>> -= Victor =-
>> 
>> “Do or do not, there is no try.” ~ Jedi Master Yoda
>> 
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers]

When I began calling contras, I was advised to avoid double progression
dances in general because they had limited use.
When do you use such contras?

Rich Sbardella
Stafford Springs, CT

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 7:06 PM Laur via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thanks Tony, can’t believe I missed that. Excellent point.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
> On Saturday, October 22, 2022, 6:57 PM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Remember that double progression dances work better with an odd number of
> couples (assuming the end effects are not overwhelming). With an even
> number, the dancers will always be doing the same part of the routine with
> the same neighbors. This will be even more frustrating in short lines.
>
>
>
> Tony Parkes
>
> Billerica, Mass.
>
> www.hands4.com
>
> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
>
> (available now)
>
>
>
> *From:* Victor Gascon via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30 AM
> *To:* Mary Collins 
> *Cc:* Contra Callers 
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Short contra lines
>
>
>
> Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can
> recommend?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance
> may range from 6 - 30 dancers.
>
>
>
> Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a
> challenge for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a
> double progression so no one  is ever out.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m
> planning dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or
> considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or
> secondarily less experienced dancers
>
> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is
> more of a complex preparation for me.
>
>
>
> Laurie Pietravalle
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
>
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> --
>
> -= Victor =-
>
> “Do or do not, there is no try.” ~ Jedi Master Yoda
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[David Harding via Contra Callers]

I remember a night when attendance was thin toward the end of the 
evening and we did a series of contras in Beckett formation with double 
progression.  That worked well.  Every once in a while the dancers took 
it upon themselves to swap roles or do a non-standard progression to mix 
it up a little.


Dave Harding

On 10/22/2022 6:05 PM, Laur via Contra Callers wrote:

Thanks Tony, can’t believe I missed that. Excellent point.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone 
<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>


On Saturday, October 22, 2022, 6:57 PM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


Remember that double progression dances work better with an odd
number of couples (assuming the end effects are not overwhelming).
With an even number, the dancers will always be doing the same
part of the routine with the same neighbors. This will be even
more frustrating in short lines.

Tony Parkes

Billerica, Mass.

www.hands4.com <http://www.hands4.com/>

New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century

(available now)

*From:* Victor Gascon via Contra Callers

*Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30 AM
*To:* Mary Collins 
*Cc:* Contra Callers 
*Subject:* [Callers] Re: Short contra lines

Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group
can recommend?

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers
 wrote:

I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my
home dance may range from 6 - 30 dancers.

Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low
presents a challenge for some of my dancers so I adjust on the
fly. And may do a double progression so no one  is ever out.

Mary

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers
 wrote:

There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our
area and I’m planning dances and then 20 people show. Do
you have best selections or considerations for 20 to 16
peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or
secondarily less experienced dancers

My immediate question is for more experienced dancers,
because this is more of a complex preparation for me.

Laurie Pietravalle

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>

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-= Victor =-

“Do or do not, there is no try.” ~ Jedi Master Yoda

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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Laur via Contra Callers]

Thanks Tony, can’t believe I missed that. Excellent point. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, October 22, 2022, 6:57 PM, Tony Parkes via Contra Callers 
 wrote:


Remember that double progression dances work better with an odd number of 
couples (assuming the end effects are not overwhelming). With an even number, 
the dancers will always be doing the same part of the routine with the same 
neighbors. This will be even more frustrating in short lines.
 
  
 
Tony Parkes
 
Billerica, Mass.
 
www.hands4.com
 
New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
 
(available now)
 
  
 
From: Victor Gascon via Contra Callers 
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30 AM
To: Mary Collins 
Cc: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Re: Short contra lines
 
  
 
Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can recommend?
 
  
 
On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers 
 wrote:
 

I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance may 
range from 6 - 30 dancers.
 
  
 
Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a challenge 
for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a double progression 
so no one  is ever out.
 
  
 
Mary
 
  
 
On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers 
 wrote:
 

There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m planning 
dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or considerations 
for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or secondarily less 
experienced dancers

My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is more of 
a complex preparation for me. 
 
  
 
Laurie Pietravalle 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 
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-= Victor =-

“Do or do not, there is no try.” ~ Jedi Master Yoda
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[steve Pike via Contra Callers]

Shorter lines provides the opportunity to pull out some of those “old but 
modern” great active/inactive dances, and both couples will have a chance to 
dance the 1s and 2s roles the whole length of the set without the dance lasting 
an unbearably long time. Some of my favorites are Scouthouse Reel and 
Flirtation Reel early on, and Fiddleheads, Brimmer and May Reel and Dulcimer 
Lady later.

And then you have the chance to dance all those non-alternating contra corners 
dances like The Tease, Rory O’More, For Those Who Cared (or the alternating 
dances dances as actives/1s dance all the way down).

Steve Pike
Wisconsin

PS Hi, Laura!!

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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers]

On 10/22/2022 8:30 AM, Victor Gascon via Contra Callers wrote:

Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can recommend?



   Here's a great one that I use often.

Awesome Double Progression Dance
Donna Calhoun-McAllister
duple improper, double progression; beginner

1 - down the hall 4 in line (actives in the center),
turn alone
2 - return, bend the line to a cirle
3 - circle left
4 - star left
5-6 with new neighbor, balance and swing
7 - long lines forward and back
8 - actives swing in the center

   A variation I often use is the have the line of 4 come back cozy and duck 
into a cloverleaf star.

Jonathan
-
Jonathan Sivier
Caller of Contra, Square, English and Early American Dances
Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
-
Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: It depends on what dance you call!
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Tony Parkes via Contra Callers]

Remember that double progression dances work better with an odd number of 
couples (assuming the end effects are not overwhelming). With an even number, 
the dancers will always be doing the same part of the routine with the same 
neighbors. This will be even more frustrating in short lines.

Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
www.hands4.com<http://www.hands4.com/>
New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
(available now)

From: Victor Gascon via Contra Callers 
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 9:30 AM
To: Mary Collins 
Cc: Contra Callers 
Subject: [Callers] Re: Short contra lines

Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can recommend?

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
 wrote:
I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance may 
range from 6 - 30 dancers.

Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a challenge 
for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a double progression 
so no one  is ever out.

Mary

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers 
mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
 wrote:
There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m planning 
dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or considerations 
for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or secondarily less 
experienced dancers

My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is more of 
a complex preparation for me.

Laurie Pietravalle

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Victor Gascon via Contra Callers]

Is there a list of easy double-progression dances that the group can
recommend?

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 07:42 Mary Collins via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance
> may range from 6 - 30 dancers.
>
> Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a
> challenge for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a
> double progression so no one  is ever out.
>
> Mary
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers <
> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m
>> planning dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or
>> considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or
>> secondarily less experienced dancers
>>
>> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is
>> more of a complex preparation for me.
>>
>> Laurie Pietravalle
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
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“Do or do not, there is no try.” ~ Jedi Master Yoda
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Mary Collins via Contra Callers]

I always carry an assortment of 3 face 3 and 4 face 4 since my home dance
may range from 6 - 30 dancers.

Sometimes a move such as right hand high, left hand low presents a
challenge for some of my dancers so I adjust on the fly. And may do a
double progression so no one  is ever out.

Mary

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m
> planning dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or
> considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or
> secondarily less experienced dancers
>
> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is
> more of a complex preparation for me.
>
> Laurie Pietravalle
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[John Sweeney via Contra Callers]

Hi Laurie,

  Last time I had that challenge in America, as well as some 
contras, I called:

Ted's Triplet #3

Waltz Country Dance

Big Set (Birdie in the Cage, California Show Basket, Down the Coal Mine)

Square --- NOT!

Microchasmic

Hexitation

 

  Check out the 101 formations at 
http://contrafusion.co.uk/Formations.html for dancers for any number of 
dancers. 

 

Happy dancing,  

   John   



John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574  

http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs 
   

http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   
   

http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs

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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Colin Hume via Contra Callers]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2022 05:25:13 + (UTC), Laur via Contra Callers wrote:
> Do you have best selections or considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  
> intermediate experience dancers or
> secondarily less experienced dancers
>
> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is more 
> of a complex preparation for me. 

Try some easy squares.

Colin Hume

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[Callers] Re: Short contra lines

[Don Veino via Contra Callers]

With smaller groups definitely consider screening compositions for
significant end effects - dancers will encounter them a greater proportion
of time than in longer lines/bigger crowds.

-Don

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 1:25 AM Laur via Contra Callers <
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> There is such a lack of attendance now post Covid in our area and I’m
> planning dances and then 20 people show. Do you have best selections or
> considerations for 20 to 16 peoples for  intermediate experience dancers or
> secondarily less experienced dancers
>
> My immediate question is for more experienced dancers, because this is
> more of a complex preparation for me.
>
> Laurie Pietravalle
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
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