Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
On 6 May 2000, Pixel wrote: > Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Mircea Ciocan wrote: > > > > I agree, but then the slider that determines how much should be > > installed should be placed at the percentage that is installed now, so > > what do you mean by 'installed now'? > personally, i think that the percentage install slider and the size that its going to install is about perfect, the only thing that i think might be nice is if as you move the slider you could see how large/small the install would be for each "installation class". i was half tempted the other day to try a 'normal' install class and move the slider all the way down to see what the smallest mandrake install size would be.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Mircea Ciocan wrote: > > Pixel wrote: > [snip] > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > free for little joy of the life ;). 2.4GB is actually only 12% of 20GB :). I agree with this though.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: > > Kevin Forge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I chose "developer" and "Expert" and the maximum size setting. The > > installer still didn't put this RPM on. I did some more checking > > and there are several RPMs that were not installed. > > can you give the list of packages you think should be have been installed and > weren't? > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! It ate ~1.9GB anyway. Sometimes HD space is less of a concern than having everything on the hard drive and ready to run. My '/' partition is 4 GB just in case. The only things I can readily think of that should be left out when the user asks for "everything" are foreign language documentation and the X servers ( The current scheme of loading the one that's detected is OK ). Even then there should be an easy way to load even those items too. manually expanding the software tree and selecting individual packages is dull when you want them all. The other important file I could think of is 'bind'. Not only did I have to load this manually, but I had to set it up as a "caching only name server" by hand. Maybe the "server" install dose this by default, but caching DNS requests and acting as a light duty gateway could be called a desktop function. Of course the "high security" server kernel kills some desktop functions. Like automount ( and it should ). BTW : When I select server it leaves out even more desktop specific stuff.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: > > Mircea Ciocan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Pixel wrote: > > [snip] > > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > > free for little joy of the life ;). > > well, ok. The pb is that it's quite dangerous and not much tested. It raises > some pbs. > RedHat now chooses not to launch services by default at startup. We think it's > not the right choice. The pb with that is as soon as you install a package, the > server will be launched, which is dangerous. RedHat can afford to do this because "setup" on the CL is a quick way to adjust the services chosen. We don't have this tool however. Or is it one of the things not installed ? Starting lots of daemons is dangerous. Dumping everything to disk in a preeconfigured and ready to run setup then giving the user a trivial way to pick and choose what to actually run is the right way IMHO. Even as part of the installation process. I.e. If there is a way to make bind insecure then I probably did that since I have very little understanding of this tool. If it was installed in the most commonly useful configuration ( caching only ) then I would not have needed to set it up myself. # /etc/rc.d/init.d/named start is a lot simpler when you don't have to create and/or edit 1/2 dozen files 1st. > DrakX has a list of interest by package and by type of install (see an excerpt > below). Package won't be installed if scored <= 0. If you want i can send you > the file (tis in DrakX's CVS) so you can modify ;-) So that's how you get the "select installation by size" trick to work and produce sane setups. >normal server developer > > AfterStep 55 053 > AfterStep-APPS30 035 > BasiliskII35 010 > BasiliskII-sheepnet 33 0 8 > BitchX43 015 > C++2LaTeX 0 030 > CodeCommander 0 045 > Device3Dfx 0 0 0 > DrakConf 848484 > DrakeLogo 20 0 0
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: > > Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Lets say that the complete installation now takes up 1.5GB, and what he > > wants is the possibility to install everything (2.4GB) then when you get > > to the screen of selecting how much to install (which is now set to > > 100%, but doesn't install everything), then it should by default be set > > to 63%. Or you could set 100% to be installing as much as you do now, > > but with the possibility to install 160%. > > i think it would be hard to make people understand this. How about a checkbox that says "Install and extra 600MB of useless junk too?". Perhaps a term more PC than "useless junk" should be chosen for a professional distribution however.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Well, IMHO, the pb is as you stated: that once a (possibly insecure) service/package is instaled, is also activated without the time to set properly up the security measures (firewall/tcp_wrappers/etc.) for limiting access. Can this be workedarounded somehow, if not by a post-install activation phase like RH but with some warnings during the FULL install, like: "telnetd: this service is insecure, are you sure you want to install now before configuratin of the firewall Y/N" so if people choose to install it anyway to have the opportunity to do it and those who just choose"install all now, sort later" to be able to skip it. I don't think there are many pakages this way and somehow I don't feel satisfied to choose "Install Everything" and observe later that something is missing. But in the last instance I'll modify that file for my custom CD ;). More important is if samba-2.0.7 and netscape-4.73 will made it to the final 7.1 and if no, is there a kind soul that can package those 2 (Mandrake style) and put them somewhere. Thank you, mircea C. Pixel wrote: > > Mircea Ciocan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Pixel wrote: > > [snip] > > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > > free for little joy of the life ;). > > well, ok. The pb is that it's quite dangerous and not much tested. It raises > some pbs. > RedHat now chooses not to launch services by default at startup. We think it's > not the right choice. The pb with that is as soon as you install a package, the > server will be launched, which is dangerous. > > DrakX has a list of interest by package and by type of install (see an excerpt > below). Package won't be installed if scored <= 0. If you want i can send you > the file (tis in DrakX's CVS) so you can modify ;-) > >normal server developer > > AfterStep 55 053 > AfterStep-APPS30 035 > BasiliskII35 010 > BasiliskII-sheepnet 33 0 8 > BitchX43 015 > C++2LaTeX 0 030 > CodeCommander 0 045 > Device3Dfx 0 0 0 > DrakConf 848484 > DrakeLogo 20 0 0
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: > > Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Lets say that the complete installation now takes up 1.5GB, and what he > > wants is the possibility to install everything (2.4GB) then when you get > > to the screen of selecting how much to install (which is now set to > > 100%, but doesn't install everything), then it should by default be set > > to 63%. Or you could set 100% to be installing as much as you do now, > > but with the possibility to install 160%. > > i think it would be hard to make people understand this. Then you could make a choice, maybe in the begining where the user could chose to install everything on the disk, also stating how much diskspace it requires. -- *** Regards, Rene Eske Jensen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.acoustics.auc.dk/~rej ***
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Lets say that the complete installation now takes up 1.5GB, and what he > wants is the possibility to install everything (2.4GB) then when you get > to the screen of selecting how much to install (which is now set to > 100%, but doesn't install everything), then it should by default be set > to 63%. Or you could set 100% to be installing as much as you do now, > but with the possibility to install 160%. i think it would be hard to make people understand this.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: > > Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Mircea Ciocan wrote: > > > > > > Pixel wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > > > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > > > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > > > free for little joy of the life ;). > > > > > > > thanks, cu Pixel. > > > > > > Mircea C. > > > > I agree, but then the slider that determines how much should be > > installed should be placed at the percentage that is installed now, so > > what do you mean by 'installed now'? Lets say that the complete installation now takes up 1.5GB, and what he wants is the possibility to install everything (2.4GB) then when you get to the screen of selecting how much to install (which is now set to 100%, but doesn't install everything), then it should by default be set to 63%. Or you could set 100% to be installing as much as you do now, but with the possibility to install 160%. That would give the user the possibiliy to install _everything_ on the disc(s). -- *** Regards, Rene Eske Jensen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.acoustics.auc.dk/~rej ***
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Rene Eske Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Mircea Ciocan wrote: > > > > Pixel wrote: > > [snip] > > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > > free for little joy of the life ;). > > > > > thanks, cu Pixel. > > > > Mircea C. > > I agree, but then the slider that determines how much should be > installed should be placed at the percentage that is installed now, so what do you mean by 'installed now'?
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Mircea Ciocan wrote: > > Pixel wrote: > [snip] > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > free for little joy of the life ;). > > > thanks, cu Pixel. > > Mircea C. I agree, but then the slider that determines how much should be installed should be placed at the percentage that is installed now, so you have the possibility to install what the mandrake team thinks is important. -- *** Regards, Rene Eske Jensen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.acoustics.auc.dk/~rej ***
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Mircea Ciocan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Pixel wrote: > [snip] > > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > > > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new > 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest > free for little joy of the life ;). well, ok. The pb is that it's quite dangerous and not much tested. It raises some pbs. RedHat now chooses not to launch services by default at startup. We think it's not the right choice. The pb with that is as soon as you install a package, the server will be launched, which is dangerous. DrakX has a list of interest by package and by type of install (see an excerpt below). Package won't be installed if scored <= 0. If you want i can send you the file (tis in DrakX's CVS) so you can modify ;-) normal server developer AfterStep 55 053 AfterStep-APPS30 035 BasiliskII35 010 BasiliskII-sheepnet 33 0 8 BitchX43 015 C++2LaTeX 0 030 CodeCommander 0 045 Device3Dfx 0 0 0 DrakConf 848484 DrakeLogo 20 0 0
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Pixel wrote: [snip] > we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! > Sure we can ;), at 0.1 cents/MB we can, is a pleasure to fill those new 20GB drives 15% with a really FULL ;) instalation and leave the rest free for little joy of the life ;). > thanks, cu Pixel. Mircea C.
Re: [Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
Kevin Forge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I chose "developer" and "Expert" and the maximum size setting. The > installer still didn't put this RPM on. I did some more checking > and there are several RPMs that were not installed. can you give the list of packages you think should be have been installed and weren't? we really can't install everything (you get 2.4GB)! thanks, cu Pixel.
[Cooker] Install everything ( was: minicom extras needed )
I chose "developer" and "Expert" and the maximum size setting. The installer still didn't put this RPM on. I did some more checking and there are several RPMs that were not installed. I understand not putting on support for non native languages unless requested. It also makes sense to load only X servers to match installed Video card. However there should be a quick and simple way to short-circuit the package selection and just dump every other RPM unto the system. Ian White wrote: > > On Fri, 5 May 2000, Kevin Forge wrote: > > > >From a setup screan in Minicom. > > > > A zmodem /usr/bin/sz -vv -b YUN Y > > G kermit /usr/bin/kermit -i -l %l -s YUY N > > > > These little applets are needed to do file transfers via modem > > ( without the more complex PPP stuff ). This is what I _still_ > > use minicom to do. > > > > Only ascii is included. Anyone care to point me to where the rest > > can be found so I can build my 1st useful RPM. > > Mandrake supplies the sz/rz stuff: > > >ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/MandrakeCooker/cooker/Mandrake/RPMS/lrzsz-0.12.20-5mdk.i586.rpm > > But doesn't supply a kermit. RedHat 6.2 now supplies gkermit. Previously > the popular kermit was ckermit > > ckermit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck70.html > gkermit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html > > (If you use gkermit, you need to either rename or symbolic link gkermit to > kermit, or modify the minicom config to reference gkermit instead of > kermit) > > Ian > > --- > Ian White > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
