[Cooker] Re: And next ?
Laurent Montel wrote: And splitting a single application (kopete and others) into 3-4 seperate rpms just doesnt make sense. Why ? Do you know libification ? Is it necessary when nothing besides that single app is ever going to use the library?
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On Tuesday 30 September 2003 06:07 am, David Walser wrote: Laurent Montel wrote: And splitting a single application (kopete and others) into 3-4 seperate rpms just doesnt make sense. Why ? Do you know libification ? Is it necessary when nothing besides that single app is ever going to use the library? I suppose as with any change, some are going to like it and some are not. I know SuSE splits its KDE packages in this fashion. -- /g Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside a dog it's too dark to read -Groucho Marx
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:07:50 -0400 David Walser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laurent Montel wrote: And splitting a single application (kopete and others) into 3-4 seperate rpms just doesnt make sense. Why ? Do you know libification ? Is it necessary when nothing besides that single app is ever going to use the library? I think yes. On amd-64 the library packages will be named different (libkopete1 vs something like libkopete1-64), and the file locations will be different as well (/usr/lib vs /usr/lib64), so splitting the libraries and binaries (/usr/bin) is a good thing. -- Marcel Pol
[Cooker] Re: And next ?
Vox wrote: Tho, since we are talking about the mailing listscould we *please* get rid of sympa and start using mailman or any other *decent* mailing list software? Sympa has proved over and over and over again that it can't deal with the mandrake mailing lists and that it should be shot. So...can we please get a good mailing list software managing the lists? Can Mailman be configured to correctly set the reply-to to the list? I hate being on mailman lists, they're such a pain. What about majordomo?
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On September 1993 plus 3680 days David Walser wrote: Vox wrote: Tho, since we are talking about the mailing listscould we *please* get rid of sympa and start using mailman or any other *decent* mailing list software? Sympa has proved over and over and over again that it can't deal with the mandrake mailing lists and that it should be shot. So...can we please get a good mailing list software managing the lists? Can Mailman be configured to correctly set the reply-to to the list? I hate being on mailman lists, they're such a pain. Yes, it can be...but decent mail programs don't need this :) Actually, for most of the oldtimers on the net like me, setting the Reply-To header on a mailing list is A Bad Thing and An Ugly Hack used instead of using good email programs and user education. But anyway...I won't get into this more :) Yes, mailman can be configured to do Reply-To mungling, no problem at all...it's just that by default it's configured to Do The Right Thing(tm) and most admins leave it at that. What about majordomo? I haven't used a majordomo mailing list in a long time...but I *do* remember that administration of majordomo was a major PITA... I don't think I'd wish that on whoever admins the lists here, even if s/he has inflicted sympa on us all for this long :) So...I think mailman is a better solution. Vox, who hates sympa -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:02, David Walser wrote: Can Mailman be configured to correctly set the reply-to to the list? Correctly is a matter of opinion (one I happen to agree with) but it's a simple option for each list and can be made the default for new lists. What about majordomo? Bug/vulnerability city, harder to install, cumbersome, limited. Stick with MailMan. Cheers; Leon
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:14:54AM -0500, Vox wrote: On September 1993 plus 3680 days David Walser wrote: What about majordomo? majordomo sucks a lot, i don't even think it is mantained anymore. So...I think mailman is a better solution. Vox, who hates sympa I still prefer sympa to mailman, sympa scenarii rock. (*) But i would not turn it into a religion war. I would propose using a more current version than 2.7.3 before shooting at it (current stable is 3.4.4.3) regards, L. (*) maybe i am biased, since i can read and write perl far better than i can read python : L. -- Luca Berra -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Communication Media Services S.r.l. /\ \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN XAGAINST HTML MAIL / \
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next ?
On September 1993 plus 3680 days Luca Berra wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:14:54AM -0500, Vox wrote: On September 1993 plus 3680 days David Walser wrote: What about majordomo? majordomo sucks a lot, i don't even think it is mantained anymore. So...I think mailman is a better solution. Vox, who hates sympa I still prefer sympa to mailman, sympa scenarii rock. (*) But i would not turn it into a religion war. I would propose using a more current version than 2.7.3 before shooting at it (current stable is 3.4.4.3) regards, L. (*) maybe i am biased, since i can read and write perl far better than i can read python : I don't even try to read python, and I can sorta-almost-make-sense of perl...but I still hate sympa. Probably it's because the version used sucks, but any mailing list software that: a) Breaks gpg signatures and b) Stops sending mail when the load is high Is A Bad Software, IMNSHO. If the current sympa can handle the load of all the mandrake mailing lists during beta/rc times, and stops f'ing up gpg signatures just for the hell of it, then I *may* stop hating sympa...but until such happens, I still am... Vox, who hates sympa -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
[Cooker] Re: And next?
Hi I will discuss drakconnect and my perceptions. This setup has two boxes, a firewall with Mdk 9.1 and a user box with different Linux distributions. Firewall setup. My firewall has a stable IP and many local DNS's. During setup I only have the right to setup one DNS server. The reason for more DNS servers might be justified as this is a university student LAN. = Mdk has minimized the Linux way of choice, for graphical reasons? When going to the next card I am giving the IP for eth1 as 192.168.1.1. But to my memory I am not asked for a 'local LAN name server' deposit. Thus two choices are hidden to me, if I want the router to know the names of the local LAN and, compared to Microsoft, if I want the router to have a per session cache for most visited URL's. As this setup does not function I have to visit 'drakconnect sharing', and find that the name on eth0 is given to eth1 as well, and that 192.168.1.1 is setup as DNS server for 192.168.1.252. Slackware advices its user to not allow 192.169.1.1 to be given as DNS server for speed reasons. This is what I call a communistic decission tree, which comes out as authoritarian in your view. That is to say the right way to do it has already been choosen. Thus the reason for the decission is the right one not a choosen one of many possible ones. This leads to a Linux specific question: Is the GUI interface used to hide or help a newbie? I have always thought that the hiding of a text boot to a newbie is stupid. As long as every decission taken is given a 'OK' then no newbie should have to be afraid of what a large enterprice a server is. Along this line I think that possible decissions should be shown and the position for the user to enlarge or widen his choice by a later come back should be adviced. Thus Mdk should have 'navigation plan' as in Navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse. To me this plan has to coincide with the plan from the user community, if you want them to cooperate in its fullfillment. Personally I have always found the Mdk boot structure stupid as it had no way to stop an installation and cleanly jump out. Thus you may have to go as RedHat, not mount and format until every choice by the user is done. regards guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 kernel-2.4.22.10mdk-1-1mdk VERSION:20030924 21:50 Only in a society that has 'a priori' defined what is the truth can the result from the evolution of life be defined false.
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next?
söndagen den 28 september 2003 13.23 skrev guran: Thus Mdk should have 'navigation plan' as in Navigare necesse est vivere non est necesse. To me this plan has to coincide with the plan from the user community, if you want them to cooperate in its fullfillment. Here is a discussion 'navigation plan'. Assume the user and a community member to interested in the last and the fastest Linux box from Mdk. Thus the package selection should be directed to the user decissions and not to the usual Linux way of sorting packages. Tree: 1 a = newbie and b = fast, in b a possibility to choose a i686 kernel Tree: Multimedia, 2 a = standard and b = preemptive kernel. Tree: GUI, 3 a = standard KDE and b = everything from KDE c. Tree: Office, 4 a = OO suit b = KDE-office c = LyX regards guran -- Mandrake Linux Cooker 9.2 kernel-2.4.22.10mdk-1-1mdk VERSION:20030924 21:50 Only in a society that has 'a priori' defined what is the truth can the result from the evolution of life be defined false.
[Cooker] Re: And next ?
Warly wrote: It may be a good idea, before cooker opens again, to take these days to have some brainstorm. May you give your opinion on : - What was wrong in 9.2 development process? the mirror situation, of course Also, a lot of MDK developers got heavy into bugfixing the last couple weeks before release, and they weren't done when we cut the release. They should have started earlier. - We though a bit late in the 9.2 developement process to split cooker ml, we should do it now. As long as each sublist is available as a newsgroup (be it gmane or whatever). - What could we do to improve 9.3/10.0 development. I think for 9.3 we need to focus on bugfixing and polishing. The only major change should be the switch to the freedesktop.org menu system. Other than that, there shouldn't be any major innovations, or overhauls (yet again) of DrakX. One release cycle focusing on just making sure things work could go a long way to improve our image. - What should we do to improve the Wiki. good question - Should we have cooker snapshot ISOs? If they were only distributed with bittorrent, they wouldn't hurt anything. I wouldn't have a need for them, but if others could use them, go for it. I just wouldn't want too much additional load on the mirrors. One nice thing about doing it is it would for you to keep mkcd working ;o) - What could we do, as a community, to increase the acceptance of mandrakelinux? make it so things just work. - How to have more contributors? Better docs, and reaching out to the fedora people for some collaboration. And anything related to the mandrakelinux distro. Harness the power of the community to increase the visibility and support of contrib.
Re: [Cooker] Re: And next?
Le Dimanche 28 Septembre 2003 13:23, guran a écrit : I will discuss drakconnect and my perceptions. I have a similar perception... The architecture of drakconnect must be rebuilt. I wish an extensive use of profiles. Examples: home eth0adslfirewall on 10.0.0.10 eth1lan firewall off192.168.33.1 internet-routed demo1 usb adslfirewall on eth0unused eth1lan firewall offdhcp demo2 modem56kfirewall on eth0lan firewall off192.168.0.2 eth1unused Each configuration is built on the name of the profile. The firewall on internet is different from the firewall on LAN. The IP addresses can change with the profile, the rules for the firewall too. It would be better to ask for a profile, an interface and ask what do you want to do with it ? -- Pierre Jarillon - http://pjarillon.free.fr/ Vice-président de l'ABUL : http://abul.org/
[Cooker] Re: [Notice] Next version of Mandrake
Altair a écrit : I have tried Debian, RedHat, SuSE and finally Mandrake. My fauvorite is Mandrake, followed by SuSE. There are a couple of things that I think could be improved for creating a perfect distribution: TO INCLUDE: We are in a crucial time for Linux. Please, in the next version Kernel 2.4.X (if available) not yet ! XFree86 4.0 this is included in next 7.1 KDE 2.0 this is in our contribs (1.90 version) Latest versions of: GNome, Wine, Lothar, LyX/KLyX, KDevelop helix stuffs are there and the other soft you listed are updated ;-) PASCAL: This language seems to be abandoned under Linux. Why? Include: FPK for Linux: Free Pascal Compiler for Linux (www.freepascal.org), the most widely extended Pascal compiler after TurboPascal Lazarus (lazarus.freepascal.org): why not having a Free-Delphi for Linux? thanx for this link ! AFAIK , any free delphi compiler is available for Linux (is this free pascal compiler support delphi ??) SUGGESTION: Any problem with StarOffice? (in a second CD or whatever) Staroffice (tm) is not gpl'ed and we cannot ship this in our main cd ,as we try to have a 100% GPL product . TO IMPROVE: the final details of installation: I always mess with something so important as autofs: could you improve this? Include sound configuration tool in install Hoping to hear about new version of Mandrake... 7.1 beta is out since 1 month now ;-). You can download for test at any mirror of cooker (http://www.mandrake.com) Pack should be available in June . Keep in touch. Aitor -- --^^/°°\^^-- | Daouda LOemail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | workin' on KDE-GNOME interoperability
