Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Adam Williamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I agree, I could see if it were somehow going to add > > functionality, but I really don't see the value in branding a > > login. It's rarely seen, and the > > Login screen is quite often seen on most people's machines, and if it was not, we would not have seen these trolls^h^h^h^h^h threads about the new kdm :-)
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 03:15, Jason Straight wrote: > I agree, I could see if it were somehow going to add functionality, but I > really don't see the value in branding a login. It's rarely seen, and the Login screen is quite often seen on most people's machines, because they shut them down regularly - at least every day, for some people more often than that. Corporate bunnies and geeks don't seem to believe in electricity bills (they'd much rather have penis len^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H uptime contests...), the rest of us do :) -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 22:00, Ben Reser wrote: > > 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his program and make noise > > after' > > I think the whole thing is laughable. Mandrake whines about not having > enough money to support their developers. But then goes and redevelopes > the proverbial wheel. There are tons of things that have received far > more complaints in reviews. Far more innovating things Laurent could be > doing with his time, than simply rewriting a DM. > I agree...and the point of complaining wasn't that the DM sucked (which in my opinion it does) it's that it they re-wrote KDM instead of creating a new Mandrake DM...so no matter how good it was (it could have been the best damn DM ever created) it shouldn't have *become* KDM --Brad
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 03 February 2003 10:00 pm, Ben Reser wrote: > I think the whole thing is laughable. Mandrake whines about not having > enough money to support their developers. But then goes and redevelopes > the proverbial wheel. There are tons of things that have received far > more complaints in reviews. Far more innovating things Laurent could be > doing with his time, than simply rewriting a DM. I agree, I could see if it were somehow going to add functionality, but I really don't see the value in branding a login. It's rarely seen, and the only people who are going to see it are those who buy the product. Brand the customers, so other people can see. Give away free Tee's! hehe - -- Jason Straight [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 1796276 pgp: http://www.JeetKuneDoMaster.net/~jason/pubkey.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBPj8wZxFHZPcobeHxAQL0qwQAnG4822XB6W75VMwCQPH/vwwoiNX6ShP2 hhrCyQmG0SPYRDU8fe8+fXFMBjI0Tyihz95ZE4VOoJ07GlrBsuRfZfbgnMHKm3la enC0e+CIhhYNTafhESgxQ73iuioGF8rNKygyP/79Th3Bmrvj630hd5I38L+CPrKp ty3L37ZfoY8= =UzSp -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 05:47:14PM +0100, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > > Chmouel reading this long thread about mdkkdm and thinking : > > 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his program and make noise > after' I think the whole thing is laughable. Mandrake whines about not having enough money to support their developers. But then goes and redevelopes the proverbial wheel. There are tons of things that have received far more complaints in reviews. Far more innovating things Laurent could be doing with his time, than simply rewriting a DM. -- Ben Reser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://ben.reser.org "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion only of her own." -- John Quincy Adams, July 4th, 1821
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
David Walser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Perhaps he could have given himself more time, and > waited until it was in a more finished state before > uploading. Rather than uploading an unfinished/crappy > thing that makes everybody scream bloody murder. > Example: the patience GC had for getting rpmdrake 2.0 > working before uploading the first version to Cooker. cmmon guys, we are cookering and he listen everything you said. Anyway don't worry i guess/hope he will end-up by something everyone like.
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
--- Chmouel Boudjnah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Chmouel reading this long thread about mdkkdm and > thinking : > > 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his > program and make noise > after' Perhaps he could have given himself more time, and waited until it was in a more finished state before uploading. Rather than uploading an unfinished/crappy thing that makes everybody scream bloody murder. Example: the patience GC had for getting rpmdrake 2.0 working before uploading the first version to Cooker. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 16:47, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > Chmouel reading this long thread about mdkkdm and thinking : > > 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his program and make noise > after' I don't think anyone minds Laurent finishing it, so long as it's separate from kdm. What people were objecting to was the replacement of KDE's own dm by an inferior and in-development program. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > Chmouel reading this long thread about mdkkdm and thinking : > > 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his program and make noise > after' > Sure, but then maybe Laurent misses on some issues, and gives no idea of what he is doing, and we end up with something that has a critical flaw, but is installed by default, and most popular entry in errata for 9.1 becomes: # rpm -e --nodeps mdkdm # urpmi kdebase-kdm I would much rather have Laurent take 5 minutes to say what his ideas are before he spends 4 days on something that possibly has some issues that could have been solved quicker. If work is going to be done on mdkdm, we would at least like to have some input ... and maybe Laurent will be able to progress faster. Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Chmouel reading this long thread about mdkkdm and thinking : 'hey guys give Laurent the time to finish his program and make noise after'
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Teletchéa Stéphane wrote: > Le lun 03/02/2003 à 16:51, scott chevalley a écrit : >>* In keeping with recent discussions on switching users, one thing >>XP does that this login manager >>is ideal for is showing who's logged in already and if there are >>programs running for that user. > > > Do a top, and you'll see ... Your grandmother (or mother) knows how to switch VTs and run top??? Mine don't. I really would like to see a good "fast user switching" implementation, and for it to work you have to see if users are logged in from the dm. >>Perhaps grayscaling or fading the icon for logged in users and >>have a line under is saying "XX open >>applications". you could filter out GNOME or KDE desktop >>related processes to show "apps". >> > > > And what about security, i don't want someone just looking at my login > manager, and the root account is never shown in kdm nor gdm > I don't see any security issues, if you don't want to use "fast user switching" (assuming this is going to be implemented), you don't have to. And if you don't want a user list, either: 1) # echo "allow_user_list(0)" >>/etc/security/msec/level.local; msec 2) # msec $seclevel (seclevel >=4) Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Le lun 03/02/2003 à 16:51, scott chevalley a écrit : > * Don't make the any of the buttons at the bottom of the dialog > have focus. This way enter won't >reboot or halt the computer. I agree on that > * If possible, make an option to have the names and icons drawn on > the desktop like XP with > themable placement. NO !!! > * In keeping with recent discussions on switching users, one thing > XP does that this login manager > is ideal for is showing who's logged in already and if there are > programs running for that user. Do a top, and you'll see ... > Perhaps grayscaling or fading the icon for logged in users and > have a line under is saying "XX open > applications". you could filter out GNOME or KDE desktop > related processes to show "apps". > And what about security, i don't want someone just looking at my login manager, and the root account is never shown in kdm nor gdm Stef *~~* Linux 2.4.19-16mdk #1 Fri Sep 20 18:15:05 CEST 2002 5:00pm up 24 days, 4:52, 3 users, load average: 1.00, 1.05, 1.07 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
scott chevalley wrote: > I took a look at it last night and I immediately felt I knew the reason > behind the redesign: Newbies. If you stand back and look at it from the > right perspective, it looks like an attempt to copy the XP login > manager, only instead of having the Icon's and names on the background, > it's all in a window. Note that XP only looks like this until you have joined it to a domain (only possible with XP pro), in which case it looks almost identical to win2k (except for the window decorations). This (being a domain member) is usually the case in any large network, so we (thankfull) only see that toy screen once here. I don't want my display manager to look any more like winxp home by default, we're going to end up looking like RH 8.0 (which some people here call, out of irritation with the interface, Linux XP). If Mandrake is aiming for the corporate desktop, then for a corporate setting (possible tie this to using LDAP/Winbind as auth option?) I would prefer a minimal but professional dm, which is more or less what I got with kdm after removing the user list. And kdm does have a user list which looks pretty good anyway, no need to replace it. So, what are the goals? Buchan -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Gregory K. Meyer wrote: > > --- On Mon 02/03, Laurent Montel < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > Le Monday 03 February 2003 15:39, Jason Straight a écrit : [snip] > > New kdm is a just a redesign of kdm. > > It's a lot of work to redesign the UI of something that is very nice already. I >would be more agreeable to spending time on this if there was a major feature add. I bet it will eventually have the polished user-switching feature but the competition is listening too so I'm sure you won't hear a word about it. However, sneakily changing kdm was a strategic blunder if my guessing turns out to be right... I guess I read too many Clancy/Ludlum/Carre type of novels ;-) Guy Bormann
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Laurent Montel wrote: Le Monday 03 February 2003 15:39, Jason Straight a écrit : Now that I feel mandrake has done the politically correct thing by not taking away our choice, I'd like to know more about mdkkdm and what it's plans are? One suggestion, move it to another name so it can be installed alongside kdebase-kdm, so those of us who want to help can flip back and forth as we play ;) I take it due to it's initial replacement of kdm that it's supposed to be a 100% compatible drop in for kdm, is it meant to have perfect function match eventually? I mean will all features in the kcontrol panel eventually reflect settings to mdkkdm? mdkkdm use kcontrol->kdm configuration file. What is the whole reason behind mdkkdm? Just branding or is there some goal to new added functionality that's being worked on? There is not new feature. In the past I've seen mdk changes that were not liked at first, I remember some rpmdrake things that really pissed people off, but mdk came through with a very nice rpmdrake. I trust that will happen with mdkkdm as well, but I'm glad the choice isn't taken away from us now to use what we want to use. I think kde's kdm is really nice, couldn't the kdm that's already there just have some branding added to it by mdk without redoing the layout and functions? New kdm is a just a redesign of kdm. Regards. I still think it should be a separate package however even in that case. I took a look at it last night and I immediately felt I knew the reason behind the redesign: Newbies. If you stand back and look at it from the right perspective, it looks like an attempt to copy the XP login manager, only instead of having the Icon's and names on the background, it's all in a window. XP works fairly similar in that you have to click on a name before you get a password prompt. Also, it hides administrator users as well. Overall, it's got potential. Some things I'd like to see fixed (if they haven't been already) are: * Don't make the any of the buttons at the bottom of the dialog have focus. This way enter won't reboot or halt the computer. * If possible, make an option to have the names and icons drawn on the desktop like XP with themable placement. * In keeping with recent discussions on switching users, one thing XP does that this login manager is ideal for is showing who's logged in already and if there are programs running for that user. Perhaps grayscaling or fading the icon for logged in users and have a line under is saying "XX open applications". you could filter out GNOME or KDE desktop related processes to show "apps". Just some suggestions Scott
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
--- On Mon 02/03, Laurent Montel < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Le Monday 03 February 2003 15:39, Jason Straight a écrit : >> Now that I feel mandrake has done the politically correct thing by not It is not the politically correct thing, it is the right thing. >> taking away our choice, I'd like to know more about mdkkdm and what it's >> plans are? Thank you for restoring it. >> What is the whole reason behind mdkkdm? Just branding or is there some goal >> to new added functionality that's being worked on? >There is not new feature. What's the point then? >> In the past I've seen mdk changes that were not liked at first, I remember >> some rpmdrake things that really pissed people off, but mdk came through >> with a very nice rpmdrake. I trust that will happen with mdkkdm as well, >> but I'm glad the choice isn't taken away from us now to use what we want to >> use. In those other instances, there were serious flaws with the program being replaced, eg. rpmdrake >> I think kde's kdm is really nice, couldn't the kdm that's already there >> just have some branding added to it by mdk without redoing the layout and >> functions? > New kdm is a just a redesign of kdm. It's a lot of work to redesign the UI of something that is very nice already. I would be more agreeable to spending time on this if there was a major feature add. Gregory K. Meyer ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: [Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
Le Monday 03 February 2003 15:39, Jason Straight a écrit : > Now that I feel mandrake has done the politically correct thing by not > taking away our choice, I'd like to know more about mdkkdm and what it's > plans are? > > One suggestion, move it to another name so it can be installed alongside > kdebase-kdm, so those of us who want to help can flip back and forth as we > play ;) > > I take it due to it's initial replacement of kdm that it's supposed to be a > 100% compatible drop in for kdm, is it meant to have perfect function match > eventually? I mean will all features in the kcontrol panel eventually > reflect settings to mdkkdm? mdkkdm use kcontrol->kdm configuration file. > What is the whole reason behind mdkkdm? Just branding or is there some goal > to new added functionality that's being worked on? There is not new feature. > In the past I've seen mdk changes that were not liked at first, I remember > some rpmdrake things that really pissed people off, but mdk came through > with a very nice rpmdrake. I trust that will happen with mdkkdm as well, > but I'm glad the choice isn't taken away from us now to use what we want to > use. > I think kde's kdm is really nice, couldn't the kdm that's already there > just have some branding added to it by mdk without redoing the layout and > functions? New kdm is a just a redesign of kdm. Regards. >I still think it should be a separate package however even in > that case.
[Cooker] mdkkdm - project goals? (So we can help)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Now that I feel mandrake has done the politically correct thing by not taking away our choice, I'd like to know more about mdkkdm and what it's plans are? One suggestion, move it to another name so it can be installed alongside kdebase-kdm, so those of us who want to help can flip back and forth as we play ;) I take it due to it's initial replacement of kdm that it's supposed to be a 100% compatible drop in for kdm, is it meant to have perfect function match eventually? I mean will all features in the kcontrol panel eventually reflect settings to mdkkdm? What is the whole reason behind mdkkdm? Just branding or is there some goal to new added functionality that's being worked on? In the past I've seen mdk changes that were not liked at first, I remember some rpmdrake things that really pissed people off, but mdk came through with a very nice rpmdrake. I trust that will happen with mdkkdm as well, but I'm glad the choice isn't taken away from us now to use what we want to use. I think kde's kdm is really nice, couldn't the kdm that's already there just have some branding added to it by mdk without redoing the layout and functions? I still think it should be a separate package however even in that case. - -- Jason Straight [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 1796276 pgp: http://www.JeetKuneDoMaster.net/~jason/pubkey.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBPj5/ChFHZPcobeHxAQLw0wP/Uh5U1KshwWEoBt9OZL+lr9doUohH2RNd DV1QWxJD2loCn3q2Rr4/avpuWr95Of27IyDfmGa1WlT5qzoGKj0TjbL56Xs4hi5U 7bgRqK5k/yGgvSMsakVIfRgVa1im07F8UPI+he9pwpuk9D5O3ZsDpBBwx/4Z6rJv wkI51G2/mWc= =kmwI -END PGP SIGNATURE-
