Re[4]: [Cooker] 9.2 Updates a total mess
bccz Development is totally open. If you want to help, you can. There is no bccz need to ask for developers, because the policy is clear. Volunteers are bccz welcome and always have been. ??? Don't have to ask developers ? If I want something to be changed in ML i will post a message to cooker list. If other people want the same thing then it is up to the developers to make the change. After all they are the ones who have the control over the final product. bccz Your point? My point ? If you want to do it wright you do it yourself. bccz Or that bugs took longer to solve than the time available before they had bccz to meet their commitments. bccz bccz Of course, Mandrake didn't go out telling people not to test this release ... maybe the best solution would be a kind of a fork to create a perfect ml 9.2 (9.2.1) apply all of the updates over the next month or so and post a howto for people who wont to build their own distrib. isos. There have been a question on cooker list concerning this but I haven't seen a god answer for it. I'm currently truing to do the same thing myself. bccz Have you considered that maybe Mandrakesoft doesn't want postfix to depend bccz on mysql by default, but *does* want to make it easy for someone to build bccz the package with mysql support No. It was a mistake. The mistake got corrected a few releases later. Anyway postfix doesn't depend on mysql it only has a module in it built to support mysql. bccz All you need to do is: bccz $ rpm --rebuild --with mysql postfix*.src.rpm Yeah i know how to build rpm. bccz No, it's in contrib, along with courier and binc and dovecot. There was bccz resistance to having two IMAP servers in a desktop distro. IMHO, we should bccz replace UW, and have Cyrus in main (reclaiming the space sendmail wastes bccz ;-)). Yeah I know it's in the contrib but we voted for it to be in the main. bccz So, then why is cyrus-imapd in contrib now? Why are there people who are bccz working on making it easier to set it up? Yes I know that it is in the contrib thanks to the votes. Look the main problem here is that some of us need some new features which are not so common. If added they would not make any difference to the most people. Most wouldn't even notice them but it would make a great difference to some of us since it would be supported by mandrake. Example cyrus-sasl doesn't have a support for mysql or postgre. If added this wouldn't make any difference to most of the people. Most of the people don't even use it. But it would make a great difference to me since the next time a security patch is released I wouldn't have to go try the same process of patching building and testing. I don't have enough resources to keep all of the old mandrake releases installed so I could build a few rpm when a bug is found. Maybe a moderated feature request list should be built for mandrake developers as a reference point. New features are always welcome as long they don't affect stability. bccz Please, post your bug numbers, otherwise there is no reason to give any bccz credence to reports like this. Already wasted to much time writing this. Don't have the time to go try cooker archive. bccz Possibly in a bug report on the RC or similar. How else do you make an bccz errata? Report issues that no-one has tested?? You didn't understand what i was trying to say. Some issues were reported and didn't get fixed. bccz So, you have a better idea? Maybe you know how to patch CDs? bccz Of course, you can always do the update after installation. You missed the point. When an obvious thing doesn't work it leaves a bad impression. bccz It looks like you are new to cooker, so remember: Actually I'm not. bccz 1)This is not a support list This should be a developers list where all users can share ideas how to make a better Mandrake . bccz 2)Don't troll, contribute instead (that's the only way things get better). I'm trying and a have tried to contribute. I didn't write this just to get some steam out. If I wanted that I would just say @[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@#!@ well something inappropriate : I have been a long time user of mandrake and its irritating when the same mistakes are happening all over again. bccz It also seems you are assuming the worst about everyone, instead of bccz realising that there are constraints on many aspects (available time, bccz number s of bad bug reports etc etc). Maybe. But according to my experience until you start complaining about something it will never get fixed. the problem here is that until a lot of people starts complaining nothing will get changed. A lot of people think like this 9.0 = test, 9.1 = a little better, 9.2 = absolutely perfect. this just to be in the old days. Now it seems that to many people are crying for bleeding edge and distributions are truing to catch up.
Re: Re[4]: [Cooker] 9.2 Updates a total mess
bccz Development is totally open. If you want to help, you can. There
is no bccz need to ask for developers, because the policy is clear.
Volunteers are bccz welcome and always have been.
???
Don't have to ask developers ? If I want something to be changed in ML i
will post a message to cooker list.
Sometimes it is more effective to post a patch, and/or file a bug.
Sometimes not.
If other people want the same thing
then it is up to the developers to make the change. After all they are
the ones who have the control over the final product.
But you seem to infer that only Mandrakesoft people are developers, and
exclude yourself from possibly being a developer.
bccz Your point?
My point ? If you want to do it wright you do it yourself.
I do. Do you?
bccz Or that bugs took longer to solve than the time available before
they had bccz to meet their commitments.
bccz bccz Of course, Mandrake didn't go out telling people not to test
this release ... maybe the best solution would be a kind of a fork to
create a
perfect ml 9.2 (9.2.1) apply all of the updates over the next month or
so and post a howto for people who wont to build their own distrib.
isos.
The question is, would the bugs be found in 9.2, or would people think
9.2 is just an RC, I will wait for 9.2.1, and then you end up in the
same situation?
There have been a question on cooker list concerning this but I haven't
seen a god answer for it. I'm currently truing to do the same thing
myself.
bccz Have you considered that maybe Mandrakesoft doesn't want postfix
to depend bccz on mysql by default, but *does* want to make it easy for
someone to build bccz the package with mysql support
No. It was a mistake. The mistake got corrected a few releases later.
Anyway postfix doesn't depend on mysql it only has a module in it
built to support mysql.
Which depends on MySQL, and can't be packaged seperately (AFAIK).
From:
http://cvs.mandrakesoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/SPECS/postfix/postfix.spec?rev=1.63content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
%define with_MYSQL 0
[...]
%if %{with_MYSQL}
Requires: MySQL, MySQL-client
BuildRequires: MySQL, MySQL-client, MySQL-devel
%endif
bccz All you need to do is:
bccz $ rpm --rebuild --with mysql postfix*.src.rpm
Yeah i know how to build rpm.
bccz No, it's in contrib, along with courier and binc and dovecot.
There was bccz resistance to having two IMAP servers in a desktop
distro. IMHO, we should bccz replace UW, and have Cyrus in main
(reclaiming the space sendmail wastes bccz ;-)).
Yeah I know it's in the contrib but we voted for it to be in the main.
And maybe if can be done for 10.0, and we can put UW in contrib? But you
have people upgrade from 9.1 to 9.2 and lose support for the IMAP server
they were using.
We are making progress, but it is slow, but it doesn't help if you
complain ...
bccz So, then why is cyrus-imapd in contrib now? Why are there people
who are bccz working on making it easier to set it up?
Yes I know that it is in the contrib thanks to the votes.
Look the main problem here is that some of us need some new features
which are not so common. If added they would not make any difference to
the most people. Most wouldn't even notice them but it would make a
great difference to some of us since it would be supported by
mandrake.
Example cyrus-sasl doesn't have a support for mysql or postgre.
If added this wouldn't make any difference to most of the people.
Most of the people don't even use it.
But it would make a great difference to me since the next time a
security patch is released I wouldn't have to go try the same process of
patching building and testing. I don't have enough resources to keep all
of the old mandrake releases installed so I could build a few rpm when a
bug is found.
So, send your patches. If Florin won't take them directly (he often
doesn't manage to look at cyrus stuff), one of the Luca's will take a look
at it, or I will.
I needed LDAP support in samba-2.2.x, and since it couldn't be available
at run-time, I made it available at compile time. In samba3, xml and mysql
are optional at runtime, so I have provided the additional packages (and
hope to do the same for LDAP so the normal samba packages don't
necessarily need to depend on ldap).
Things *do* happen when the people who need them contribute ...
Maybe a moderated feature request list should be built for mandrake
developers as a reference point.
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/wiki
I meant to summarise some of the authentication-related aspects already,
but haven't had time.
New features are always welcome as long they don't affect stability.
bccz Please, post your bug numbers, otherwise there is no reason to
give any bccz credence to reports like this.
Already wasted to much time writing this. Don't have the time to go try
cooker archive.
OK, waste our time then ...
bccz Possibly in a bug report on the RC or similar. How else do you
make an bccz
