On 1.x deprecation

[ermouth]

TLDR; Please vote -1 at @dev thread ‘[PROPOSAL] Officially deprecate
CouchDB 1.x.’ All arguments of the proposal are of no basis.

---

Hope, we all read deprecation statement from Joan. She provided one reason
directly, also several were coined in indirect way.

1. “No one is maintaining the 1.x.x branches of CouchDB anymore”

Probably that’s because they just do not need daily maintenance.

2. “Issues stack up on the tracker with no response.”

Ok, lets count. Right now couchdb github repo has 133 issues open, 11 of
them have 1.x tag.

21 of those 133 are marked with red bug tag, but none of them with 1.x. So
seems 1.x have no serious bugs, but 2.x have a pile.

How about “no response”? All 1.x issues have at least one. 33% of non-1.x
issues have zero answers. So I’d say if there exist a stack up, it’s not
related to 1.x, it’s more about 2.x.

3. “Having to patch 1.x as well as 2.x slows down the security team's
ability to push releases quickly out the door”

First, this game is two-sided. Probably, necessaty to fix not so adopted
version slowed down the team from releasing very minor upgrade for very
stable version widely used in production.

Probably, back-porting of not widely adopted 2.x features into 1.7 also
slowed process down.

Or, probably, there were no slowdown at all? As I know, that ‘slow down’
was never complained.

4. “By focusing on what we do best - supporting 2.x”

As I showed earlier it’s looks incomparably easier to support 1.x than 2.x.
As I can see from numbers, supporting 2.x issues have already taken all
focus. It happened about 1.5 years ago I’d say.

Ok, have anyone ever complained? Today I consulted a guy from BY by phone,
yesterday from IN – also privately. Classic reasonable CouchDB guys seem to
be pretty well aware they won’t have a lot of help from official support
anyway. They do not need bug fixes, they want to discuss use strategies,
solution details, they want hints and opinions how to improve things that
already works fine.

So 1.x doesn’t blur developers’ focus, unless developers start demnding
granny’s blood. Granny is still pretty healthy.

5. “I’m definitely seeing more people on 2.x these days than 1.x,
*significantly* more - both from our informal support channels as well as
through GitHub Issues and requests for paid support”

This argument is very strange. It looks like someone already have a lot of
2.x tickets and want even more. Sorry, but I don’t see how it reflects real
users distribution, I only see that 2.x is more buggy and though sells paid
support better.

---

So, as I see all above arguments for deprecation have no relation to real
accountable state of things, unless I suppose the goal is paid support.
Honestly, I can’t believe in it.

Then why deprecate?

The deprecation notice by itself breaks reputation of 1.6/1.7, which is for
now waaay more reliable than 2.x. At least 1.6 doesn’t bite unexpectedly.

I hope keeping things as is for about a year is well enough to fix most
visible 2.x issues, and then – long live 1.x.

Unfortunately I’m not subscribed to @dev and can’t reply into past proposal
thread even if get subscribed now.

So if you feel my arguments are reasonable, I ask you to cast ‘-1’ under
that proposal. Thank you.

ermouth

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Johs Ensby]

Hi Harald,
how about starting a new thread on the topic, incuding dev@ and users@?
Compared to the https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_trend/system/CouchDB (auto 
collected web data)
the review service you linked to have a massive amount of reviews from MongoDB 
people.

Your question could motivate CouchDB users to summit reviews to g2crowd, and 
give detailed data in addition to the 44 people that did so already,
Johs:)

> On 5 Jul 2018, at 13:13, Harald Kisch  wrote:
> 
> Previously I got a lot of recognition by using CouchDB 1.x
> Now I would be interested in the reasons why people prefer Mongo, Cassandra, 
> Redis, HBase,..
> Is it the Quality of support only?
> https://www.g2crowd.com/categories/document-databases#highest_rated 
> 
> 
> harald
> 
>> Am 05.07.2018 um 12:57 schrieb ermouth :
>> 
>>> This is rather inaccurate
>>> A regrettable regression,
>>> but only a config issue
>> 
>> Well enough to block upgrade. Anyway, as we see now those non-technical
>> issues of different nature improve the number of requests for paid support.
>> I wouldn’t account this fact as popularity, as Joan did, however hope it at
>> least sweetens regrets.
>> 
>> ermouth
> 

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Harald Kisch]

Previously I got a lot of recognition by using CouchDB 1.x
Now I would be interested in the reasons why people prefer Mongo, Cassandra, 
Redis, HBase,..
Is it the Quality of support only?
https://www.g2crowd.com/categories/document-databases#highest_rated 


harald

> Am 05.07.2018 um 12:57 schrieb ermouth :
> 
>> This is rather inaccurate
>> A regrettable regression,
>> but only a config issue
> 
> Well enough to block upgrade. Anyway, as we see now those non-technical
> issues of different nature improve the number of requests for paid support.
> I wouldn’t account this fact as popularity, as Joan did, however hope it at
> least sweetens regrets.
> 
> ermouth

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Aurélien Bénel]

Hi Joan, hi Johs,

>> As for things in 2.x that are « must fix" before people can upgrade, I too 
>> would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is most 
>> welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those must-fix 
>> issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you’d like to help with this 
>> important work, please start a new thread.

Mine is « Views ETags » for HTTP caching (COUCHDB-2859).

https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/1237


Regards,

Aurélien

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[ermouth]

> This is rather inaccurate
> A regrettable regression,
> but only a config issue

Well enough to block upgrade. Anyway, as we see now those non-technical
issues of different nature improve the number of requests for paid support.
I wouldn’t account this fact as popularity, as Joan did, however hope it at
least sweetens regrets.

ermouth

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Jan Lehnardt]

> On 5. Jul 2018, at 11:32, ermouth  wrote:
> 
>> convenience of one file on disk per database is gone, but is there
> anything else
> 
> There were serious issues with single node shards (or whatever those pieces
> were) during upgrade from 2.1.0 to 2.1.1. I read only brief report, but
> remember it completely broken tests in some bizzare way, like inability to
> save docs with particular _id ranges.

This is rather inaccurate. The issue was a change of vm.args -name, that
made existing shards unreadable. A regrettable regression, but only a config
issue, that is a one line change to fix.

There was no technical issue here.



> 
>> could you unveil this secret, please?
> 
> There’s nothing secret here, theoretically you have to insert two oneliners
> into chttpd_auth and then rebuild. Obvious task for end user )
> 
> -export([proxy_authentication_handler/1]).
> and
> proxy_authentication_handler(Req) ->
> couch_httpd_auth:proxy_authentication_handler(Req, chttpd_auth_cache).
> 
> But as I can recollect it also finally broke things in some bizzare way.

> 
> 
> ermouth
> 
> 2018-07-05 11:59 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
> 
 
 Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
>>> 
>>> it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to
>> enable it (it’s just not documented ;)
>> 
>> Hi Jan,
>> could you unveil this secret, please?
>> johs
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5 Jul 2018, at 10:53, Jan Lehnardt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 5. Jul 2018, at 10:20, ermouth  wrote:
 
 Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
>>> 
>>> it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to
>> enable it (it’s just not documented ;)
>>> 
 Single-node install without shards.
>>> 
>>> Both the /_setup_cluster endpoint and the Mac binaries already set q=1 &
>> n = 1 on setup. Everyone else can configure it.
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> Jan
>>> —
>>> 
 
 ermouth
 
 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
 
> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
> version of CouchDB.
> 
> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
> 
>> On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
>> 
>> As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
>> too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help
>> is
>> most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
>> must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
>> to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
> 
> Johs
> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
>>> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
>>> 
>> 
>> ………
>> Johannes Ensby
>> 
>> 
>> Business to Web AS
>> Tollbugata 8, N- 0152 Oslo, Norway
>> +47 611 00 006 (mobile)
>> +47 611 00 700 (switchboard)
>> j...@b2w.com
>> www.linkedin.com/in/ensby
>> www.b2w.com
>> 
>> 

-- 
Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[ermouth]

> convenience of one file on disk per database is gone, but is there
anything else

There were serious issues with single node shards (or whatever those pieces
were) during upgrade from 2.1.0 to 2.1.1. I read only brief report, but
remember it completely broken tests in some bizzare way, like inability to
save docs with particular _id ranges.

> could you unveil this secret, please?

There’s nothing secret here, theoretically you have to insert two oneliners
into chttpd_auth and then rebuild. Obvious task for end user )

-export([proxy_authentication_handler/1]).
and
proxy_authentication_handler(Req) ->
couch_httpd_auth:proxy_authentication_handler(Req, chttpd_auth_cache).

But as I can recollect it also finally broke things in some bizzare way.


ermouth

2018-07-05 11:59 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :

> >>
> >> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
> >
> > it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to
> enable it (it’s just not documented ;)
>
> Hi Jan,
> could you unveil this secret, please?
> johs
>
>
>
> > On 5 Jul 2018, at 10:53, Jan Lehnardt  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 5. Jul 2018, at 10:20, ermouth  wrote:
> >>
> >> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
> >
> > it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to
> enable it (it’s just not documented ;)
> >
> >> Single-node install without shards.
> >
> > Both the /_setup_cluster endpoint and the Mac binaries already set q=1 &
> n = 1 on setup. Everyone else can configure it.
> >
> > Best
> > Jan
> > —
> >
> >>
> >> ermouth
> >>
> >> 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
> >>
> >>> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
> >>> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
> >>> version of CouchDB.
> >>>
> >>> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
> >>> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
> >>> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
> >>>
>  On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
> 
>  As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
>  too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help
> is
>  most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
>  must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
>  to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
> >>> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
> >>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
> >>>
> >>> Johs
> >>>
> >
> > --
> > Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
> > https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
> >
>
> ………
> Johannes Ensby
>
>
> Business to Web AS
> Tollbugata 8, N- 0152 Oslo, Norway
> +47 611 00 006 (mobile)
> +47 611 00 700 (switchboard)
> j...@b2w.com
> www.linkedin.com/in/ensby
> www.b2w.com
>
>

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Garren Smith]

Hi Kai,

Fauxton now supports a table view which allows you to see many documents at
once as well as choosing which key values to see in the table. Its been out
for a while so I'm sure its in the current release but will definitely be
in the next.

Cheers
Garren

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 9:32 AM, Kai Griffin 
wrote:

> As developers who spend a lot of time in the CouchDB web interface, we
> have held back moving to CouchDB 2.x only because of the change from Futon
> to Fauxton.  We feel that Fauxton simply does not meet the needs of
> developers as well as Futon did. It seems to be targeted more at non-devs:
> it’s very friendly-looking, modern & pretty, but is biased towards
> prettifying document JSON, at the expense of being able to scan through
> many unformatted documents, which Futon does by default.
>
> So, mainly comes down to the inability to properly see the contents of
> documents without opening up documents individually.  We like to see the
> whole, unformatted document when viewing a list of documents (or, in the
> case of looking at a View, then whatever the map script outputs, but in an
> unformatted form, not prettified like Fauxton).  Futon is more compact &
> developer friendly, even if to a non-dev, such views might look like a
> jumble of unformatted text.  At very least, some kind of “classic mode”
> switch would be greatly welcomed, at least by us :-)
>
> Please note that it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at CouchDB 2.x, and
> the issue I brought up above might well have been addressed by someone in
> the meantime, so apologies if I’m dredging up old/non-relevant stuff (in
> which case we’ll happily jump onto 2.x!)
>
>
> On 5 July 2018 at 09:21:37, Andrea Brancatelli (abrancate...@schema31.it)
> wrote:
>
> Well, mine is the lack for a working FreeBSD port for CouchDB 2.x...
>
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=218844
>
> On 2018-07-05 09:10, Johs Ensby wrote:
>
> > This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
> > "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
> > version of CouchDB.
> >
> > It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
> > non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
> > official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
> >
> >> On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
> >>
> >> As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
> >> too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help
> is
> >> most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
> >> must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
> >> to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
> >
> > Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
> > The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
> > http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
> >
> > Johs
>

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Johs Ensby]

>> 
>> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
> 
> it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to enable it 
> (it’s just not documented ;)

Hi Jan,
could you unveil this secret, please?
johs



> On 5 Jul 2018, at 10:53, Jan Lehnardt  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5. Jul 2018, at 10:20, ermouth  wrote:
>> 
>> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
> 
> it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to enable it 
> (it’s just not documented ;)
> 
>> Single-node install without shards.
> 
> Both the /_setup_cluster endpoint and the Mac binaries already set q=1 & n = 
> 1 on setup. Everyone else can configure it.
> 
> Best
> Jan
> —
> 
>> 
>> ermouth
>> 
>> 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
>> 
>>> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
>>> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
>>> version of CouchDB.
>>> 
>>> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
>>> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
>>> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
>>> 
 On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
 
 As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
 too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
 most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
 must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
 to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
>>> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
>>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
>>> 
>>> Johs
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
> 

………
Johannes Ensby


Business to Web AS
Tollbugata 8, N- 0152 Oslo, Norway
+47 611 00 006 (mobile)
+47 611 00 700 (switchboard)
j...@b2w.com
www.linkedin.com/in/ensby
www.b2w.com

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Johs Ensby]

Thanks,
what is the issue related to Single-node install without shards?
(I noticed that the convenience of one file on disk per database is gone, but 
is there anything else?)
Johs
 

> On 5 Jul 2018, at 10:50, ermouth  wrote:
> 
> Single-node install without shards.
> 
> ermouth
> 
> 2018-07-05 11:20 GMT+03:00 ermouth :
> 
>> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
>> 
>> ermouth
>> 
>> 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
>> 
>>> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
>>> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
>>> version of CouchDB.
>>> 
>>> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
>>> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
>>> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
>>> 
 On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
 
 As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
 too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
 most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
 must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
 to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
>>> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
>>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
>>> 
>>> Johs
>>> 
>> 
>> 

………
Johannes Ensby


Business to Web AS
Tollbugata 8, N- 0152 Oslo, Norway
+47 611 00 006 (mobile)
+47 611 00 700 (switchboard)
j...@b2w.com
www.linkedin.com/in/ensby
www.b2w.com

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Jan Lehnardt]

> On 5. Jul 2018, at 10:20, ermouth  wrote:
> 
> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.

it is not absent, just not exposed by default. You can configure to enable it 
(it’s just not documented ;)

> Single-node install without shards.

Both the /_setup_cluster endpoint and the Mac binaries already set q=1 & n = 1 
on setup. Everyone else can configure it.

Best
Jan
—

> 
> ermouth
> 
> 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
> 
>> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
>> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
>> version of CouchDB.
>> 
>> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
>> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
>> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
>> 
>>> On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
>>> 
>>> As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
>>> too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
>>> most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
>>> must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
>>> to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
>> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
>> 
>> Johs
>> 

-- 
Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[ermouth]

Single-node install without shards.

ermouth

2018-07-05 11:20 GMT+03:00 ermouth :

> Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.
>
> ermouth
>
> 2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :
>
>> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
>> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
>> version of CouchDB.
>>
>> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
>> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
>> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
>>
>> > On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
>> >
>> > As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
>> > too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
>> > most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
>> > must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
>> > to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
>> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
>> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
>>
>> Johs
>>
>
>

Re: Call for "Must-fix" issues

[ermouth]

Proxy authorization which is also in docs, but absent in 2.x.

ermouth

2018-07-05 10:10 GMT+03:00 Johs Ensby :

> This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of
> "must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest
> version of CouchDB.
>
> It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the
> non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate
> official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.
>
> > On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
> >
> > As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
> > too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
> > most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
> > must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
> > to help with this important work, please start a new thread.
>
>
>
> Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
> The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
> http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy
>
> Johs
>

Call for "Must-fix" issues

[Johs Ensby]

This thread reach out to CouchDB 1.x users to generate a list of 
"must-fix" issues that is preventing users to upgrade to the latest 
version of CouchDB.

It is in response to Joan's comment below regarding the 
non-technical proposal to make a project decision to terminate 
official Apache support for CouchDB 1.x.  

> On 5 Jul 2018, at 06:31, Joan Touzet  wrote:
> 
> As for things in 2.x that are "must fix" before people can upgrade, I
> too would like to see pull requests for those. Once again, your help is
> most welcome in this - both in identifying a definitive list of those
> must-fix issues, as well as code towards fixing them. If you'd like
> to help with this important work, please start a new thread.



Mine is CouchDB as a proxy.
The feature described here is not working in 2.1.1
http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/config/proxying.html?highlight=_proxy

Johs