Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Mar 9, 2007, at 8:02 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2007-03-04 12:54:17, schrieb Lisa Muir: Courier-IMAP uses the Maildir format, but it does not scale into the thousands of users, or the tens of thousands of messages per folder. Trust me, I've tried. Does this statement hold up in practice? I'd have thought not... No, I know several ISP's using exim as MTA and courier as IMAP. I use courier-imap and exim. Maildir has no problems with 10s of thousands of mail messages in an account. I don't have a ton of accounts on the system, maybe 100, but Maildir is not the limitation. And this is on FreeBSD with ufs2 as well as some nfs mounted stuff from a Solaris ZFS server (some accounts are on local ufs2 and some are nfs mounted) Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Am 2007-03-04 12:54:17, schrieb Lisa Muir: Courier-IMAP uses the Maildir format, but it does not scale into the thousands of users, or the tens of thousands of messages per folder. Trust me, I've tried. Does this statement hold up in practice? I'd have thought not... No, I know several ISP's using exim as MTA and courier as IMAP. My ISP http://www.freenet.de/ has around 5 million E-Mails hosted and now run over 90 mbox-Servers which mean, arround 55.000 mailboxes per Server. Since you can have a free email (20 MB storage), and two commercial accounts (2.5 GByte as me, or unlimited :-)) ) you can calculate a bit. My own account linux4michelle hold currently ober 120.000 messages and I use it as backup for my very importand messages @home. I run for the french GOV the Courier-Suite (MTA+IMAP) with over 17.000 users where some user have over 2 million messages in there account... My own Courier @home holds currently 7.43 million messages since I have a very long mailinglist history... (over 180 Mailinglists and 11 years). I found that courier handel this times better then cyrus or others. And for the filesystem I use sucessfuly since over 5 years ext3 because reiserfs had and has real problems with 500.000.000 inodes (a hale Miliarde) per Raid-5 (I have currently 3) even it claims to be better then ext3. Greetings Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Otto Solares [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 10:55:25AM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: Is your filesystem mounted via NFS? What's the biggest number of files in your user's folder? Do you know how long he has to wait to open that folder, for example in your webmail? Did you tried also another journalling filesystems, for example Reiser4 or JFS? We have both aproaches, NFS and direct. We have tell courier to limit messages to 16M. We have users which never delete mail (we force the INBOX to have messages not older than 1 year, 1 day for Trash) and I have seen like 15,000+ files in some folders for users who never delete mail. Hello Otto, Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! I guess that deleting old messages in your system is a cron job. Am I right? When you runs that job? What load do you have then? The speed is directly proportional to the number of files in the Maildir, specially when IMAP threadsort and the likes are enabled. We have IMP v3 and v4 and v4 is 10x slower than v3 when accessing large maildirs with equivalent settings, so client matters too. I have never used IMP and I don't know too much about it. I'm curious what time your user needs to open his folder with 15,000+ messages? Has he to wait a few seconds or rather a few minutes? :) We tried ext3 and reiserfs and after some benchmarks and torture testing decided for XFS, 2.5 years ago ext3 have some problems with heavy concurrency and some kind of superblock mismatchs after long usage, I must say all those problems no longer are the case for recent 2.6 kernels. Thank you for the info! I need to do my own benchmarks now :) Best regards, Pawel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 09:36:46AM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: I guess that deleting old messages in your system is a cron job. Am I right? When you runs that job? What load do you have then? We used the IMAP_EMPTYTRASH courier's feature to enforce our policy at login/logout time. That takes care for the active users, another cron job monthly (last sunday) takes care for the rest, it exists a performance penalty doing a stat call for every file on login/logout time but XFS + hw raid excell in that area. For the cron job the load is not a problem as that can be minimized too (in our case) with _good_ hardware raid storage. I have never used IMP and I don't know too much about it. I'm curious what time your user needs to open his folder with 15,000+ messages? Has he to wait a few seconds or rather a few minutes? :) I can't tell as I don't know but I assume a lot of minutes for that obscene quantity ;) -otto - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Monday 05 March 2007 18:27, Otto Solares wrote: On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 02:42:40PM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pawel Tecza writes: [...] Pawel: We have 60,000+ Maildirs with XFS. Yeah, I would probably go with XFS as well. At my former workplace, we had more than 32000 customer mail boxes for a particular mail domain and with a typical mail directory structure (e.g. example.org/peter, example.org/john, example.org/jane, etc), one will run into a subdir limitation with ext3. For example, try this on an ext3 filesystem: mkdir /tmp/foo; cd /tmp/foo; for x in $(seq 1 32005); do mkdir $x; done You should see output similar to this: mkdir: cannot create directory `31999': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32000': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32001': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32002': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32003': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32004': Too many links mkdir: cannot create directory `32005': Too many links -- B/R, Frederik Dannemare - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Frederik Dannemare [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Monday 05 March 2007 18:27, Otto Solares wrote: On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 02:42:40PM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pawel Tecza writes: [...] Pawel: We have 60,000+ Maildirs with XFS. Yeah, I would probably go with XFS as well. At my former workplace, we had more than 32000 customer mail boxes for a particular mail domain and with a typical mail directory structure (e.g. example.org/peter, example.org/john, example.org/jane, etc), one will run into a subdir limitation with ext3. Hi Frederik, What's the subdir limitation for XFS? Isn't the same like for ext3? You can easy work-around a problem with the limitation adding subdirs for all your domains, e.g. example.org/001/peter, example.org/002/john, example.org/003/jane, etc. I agree that it seems a little more complicated, but if you store a path to users Maildir in a data base, that it's no problem. Have a nice day, Pawel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pawel Tecza wrote: You can easy work-around a problem with the limitation adding subdirs for all your domains, e.g. example.org/001/peter, example.org/002/john, example.org/003/jane, etc. Better yet: $DOMAIN/$USERNAME[0]/$USERNAME So: example.com/u/user example.com/b/buanzo example.com/w/willy - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman - Consultor Independiente en Seguridad Informatica Mail Hosting Seguro y Consultoria - http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF7VJAAlpOsGhXcE0RAtdyAJsGS+rduolJNJU7AebMxF5lKyYMQgCePwae hDl4OGBytPo3U9cR48dh4ig= =tnPI -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Otto Solares [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 02:42:40PM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: [...] So, it's a question to the admins of big mail systems with tens of thousands of users. What filesystem do you use? Have a nice day, Pawel Pawel: We have 60,000+ Maildirs with XFS. Hello Otto, Thank you very much for your reply! Is your filesystem mounted via NFS? What's the biggest number of files in your user's folder? Do you know how long he has to wait to open that folder, for example in your webmail? Did you tried also another journalling filesystems, for example Reiser4 or JFS? My best regards, Pawel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 12:02, Pawel Tecza wrote: Frederik Dannemare [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] Yeah, I would probably go with XFS as well. At my former workplace, we had more than 32000 customer mail boxes for a particular mail domain and with a typical mail directory structure (e.g. example.org/peter, example.org/john, example.org/jane, etc), one will run into a subdir limitation with ext3. What's the subdir limitation for XFS? Isn't the same like for ext3? It is higher, but I'm not sure how high, though. Just tested with 64000 subdirs on an XFS filesystem and it didn't complain. You can easy work-around a problem with the limitation adding subdirs for all your domains, e.g. example.org/001/peter, example.org/002/john, example.org/003/jane, etc. I agree that it seems a little more complicated, but if you store a path to users Maildir in a data base, that it's no problem. True. -- B/R, Frederik Dannemare - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 10:55:25AM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: Is your filesystem mounted via NFS? What's the biggest number of files in your user's folder? Do you know how long he has to wait to open that folder, for example in your webmail? Did you tried also another journalling filesystems, for example Reiser4 or JFS? We have both aproaches, NFS and direct. We have tell courier to limit messages to 16M. We have users which never delete mail (we force the INBOX to have messages not older than 1 year, 1 day for Trash) and I have seen like 15,000+ files in some folders for users who never delete mail. The speed is directly proportional to the number of files in the Maildir, specially when IMAP threadsort and the likes are enabled. We have IMP v3 and v4 and v4 is 10x slower than v3 when accessing large maildirs with equivalent settings, so client matters too. We tried ext3 and reiserfs and after some benchmarks and torture testing decided for XFS, 2.5 years ago ext3 have some problems with heavy concurrency and some kind of superblock mismatchs after long usage, I must say all those problems no longer are the case for recent 2.6 kernels. -otto - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] As far as tens of thousands of messages per folder, the server itself won't have any issues, it's the underlying filesystem. If your filesystem falls apart when there are tens of thousands of messages in a folder, that's that. There are filesystem that should easily handle hundreds of thousands of messages. Hello Sam, What modern filesystem for Maildir storage could you recommend me? My best regards, Pawel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Pawel Tecza writes: Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [...] As far as tens of thousands of messages per folder, the server itself won't have any issues, it's the underlying filesystem. If your filesystem falls apart when there are tens of thousands of messages in a folder, that's that. There are filesystem that should easily handle hundreds of thousands of messages. Hello Sam, What modern filesystem for Maildir storage could you recommend me? I don't routinely have folders with tens of thousands of messages. Except for my Trash folder, which usually has 5,000+ messages waiting to be expunged. ext3 appears to handle it just fine, but I have not done any benchmarks. pgp3xwXFgHhjB.pgp Description: PGP signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pawel Tecza writes: [...] What modern filesystem for Maildir storage could you recommend me? I don't routinely have folders with tens of thousands of messages. Except for my Trash folder, which usually has 5,000+ messages waiting to be expunged. ext3 appears to handle it just fine, but I have not done any benchmarks. OK, thanks for the answer! So, it's a question to the admins of big mail systems with tens of thousands of users. What filesystem do you use? Have a nice day, Pawel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On 3/5/07, Pawel Tecza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, it's a question to the admins of big mail systems with tens of thousands of users. What filesystem do you use? Jay Lee already answered that question when he wrote: Since I subscribe to some heavy traffic lists like Fedora, Ubuntu and LKML I sure do (this is a RHEL4 x86_64, dual Opteron, 6gb ram , hardware RAID5, ext3 based Maildirs). I've gotten up to 50k messages before without issue except that I had to disable FAM support. It seems FAM and/or Gamin in conjunction with dnotify will max out around 5k messages. It dies very badly too, it starts chewing up 100% of the CPU and does nothing until I reset imapd. So, ext3 and systems administration it is. Thank you to both Sam and Jay for your responses. My courier choice was made purely on technical analysis, but with so much FUD out there it does make one ask questions occassionally. Thanks, Lisa. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On Mon, Mar 05, 2007 at 02:42:40PM +0100, Pawel Tecza wrote: Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pawel Tecza writes: [...] What modern filesystem for Maildir storage could you recommend me? I don't routinely have folders with tens of thousands of messages. Except for my Trash folder, which usually has 5,000+ messages waiting to be expunged. ext3 appears to handle it just fine, but I have not done any benchmarks. OK, thanks for the answer! So, it's a question to the admins of big mail systems with tens of thousands of users. What filesystem do you use? Have a nice day, Pawel Pawel: We have 60,000+ Maildirs with XFS. -otto - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
[courier-users] Kolab article.
Hi Guys, Just been looking at kolab www.kolab.org, and was researching to see if there was any mention on the web of it having been made work with courier or was it tightly integrated with cyrus at a level beyone pop/imap protocol levels. This link came up: http://dot.kde.org/1106909457/ and a quote from it: Courier-IMAP uses the Maildir format, but it does not scale into the thousands of users, or the tens of thousands of messages per folder. Trust me, I've tried. Does this statement hold up in practice? I'd have thought not... Lisa. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
Lisa Muir writes: Hi Guys, Just been looking at kolab www.kolab.org, and was researching to see if there was any mention on the web of it having been made work with courier or was it tightly integrated with cyrus at a level beyone pop/imap protocol levels. This link came up: http://dot.kde.org/1106909457/ and a quote from it: Courier-IMAP uses the Maildir format, but it does not scale into the thousands of users, or the tens of thousands of messages per folder. Trust me, I've tried. Does this statement hold up in practice? I'd have thought not... Of course not. My ISP uses Courier-IMAP to provide IMAP service for tens of thousands of users. Couldn't get a definitive answer on their customer count, but a mailing list broker claims to own 22,000+ customer E-mail addresses. As far as tens of thousands of messages per folder, the server itself won't have any issues, it's the underlying filesystem. If your filesystem falls apart when there are tens of thousands of messages in a folder, that's that. There are filesystem that should easily handle hundreds of thousands of messages. pgp2kSDYKOPOc.pgp Description: PGP signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
On 3/4/07, Sam Varshavchik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course not. My ISP uses Courier-IMAP to provide IMAP service for tens of thousands of users. Couldn't get a definitive answer on their customer count, but a mailing list broker claims to own 22,000+ customer E-mail addresses. Thanks, thats all I need to hear. As far as tens of thousands of messages per folder, the server itself won't have any issues, it's the underlying filesystem. If your filesystem falls apart when there are tens of thousands of messages in a folder, that's that. There are filesystem that should easily handle hundreds of thousands of messages. Yeah, that kind of thing is just plain dumb, but in practice doesn't work on Cyrus anyway. My last email server setup was actually a cyrus imap server which went funny with more than 1000 messages in a folder, which the sent boxes tended to build after a while. Thanks, Lisa. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
Re: [courier-users] Kolab article.
hi On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Of course not. My ISP uses Courier-IMAP to provide IMAP service for tens of thousands of users. Couldn't get a definitive answer on their customer I can attest to that. Also, courier is much easier to scale since as long as you're using a common user database, you can add as many front-end machines as you need. And you can also add multiple backends (e.g. nfs servers) without much hassle, since user home directory location is also kept in the database and locking (in rare cases where it's needed with Maildir) is supported natively by courier. Compare that with cyrus, which doesn't officially support nfs storage altogether because it's inefficient (netapp, anyone?) and locking is hard. So they handle clustering by forwarding requests to the machine where user account is located or by providing a reference to that machine to avoid forwarding, which is supported only in Mulberry (I bet a lot of you didn't even hear that such mail client exists). BTW, you can do the same forwarding trick with courier, but you don't need to unless you decide to use local storage on every imap front-end box. As far as tens of thousands of messages per folder, the server itself won't have any issues, it's the underlying filesystem. If your filesystem falls apart when there are tens of thousands of messages in a folder, that's that. There are filesystem that should easily handle hundreds of thousands of messages. There's also a practical limit for mail clients. They tend to fall apart much earlier than the server filesystem does. You can still work with about 50,000 msgs in a single folder, but the practical limit seems to be around 30,000 or less on a modern client machine. -- rgds, serge - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ courier-users mailing list courier-users@lists.sourceforge.net Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users
