Re: [Coworking] Work Permission Issues

[Will Bennis, Locus Workspace]

Hi Kimberly,

I'm in pretty much the exact same situation you are except in Prague, Czech 
Republic and we've been running a bit longer (almost 10 years). 

My short answer is that this will very much depend on the country you're in 
and the particular laws (or lack of clarity of laws) about the necessary 
legal status of people using coworking spaces. IMO, you should talk to a 
local lawyer. We don't worry about it, but I could imagine it being a 
serious issue in some countries where the use of an office requires 
official registration.

My long answer is this: 

In most cases we don't have to worry about it at all. Along with expats and 
Czechs, we have tourists and travelers working from our coworking space on 
a regular basis. In most cases, there are no particular visa or residency 
requirements to use a coworking space any more than there would be for 
going to a restaurant.

The one exception are people who are using the space as a legally 
registered business address, in which case we do have to worry about it a 
little bit, but not because there's anything legally we're required to do. 
In those cases the main reason they're doing it is usually to establish 
residency. We occasionally have had the foreigners' police or immigration 
officials come to the coworking space to make sure the office is legitimate 
for those people using our address as a registered office. We even once had 
police come in with guns drawn because a member had his passport in the 
space and was stopped for not paying the right fair on the subway. He 
didn't speak Czech, they didn't speak English, and somehow they got it in 
their heads that they he was dangerous instead a somewhat clueless tourist.

All this is to say: while we never check about legal / immigration status 
of our members and I don't think we have any legal reason to, I have 
worried that police would to interfere with our business anyway, concerned 
that we're some kind of visa factory or host of illegal immigrants. There's 
enough immigration fear in the country and enough leeway in terms of what 
the govt. bureaucracy can and can't do, that I think there's good reason to 
worry. 

I could well imagine this being a more serious issue in countries with more 
corruption or where the rule of law is less clearly in place and, meaning 
no disrespect to Mexico, I imagine that's the case there. I think this 
would be something you'd want to discuss with a local lawyer to be sure you 
don't have anything to worry about. If Czech laws were slightly different, 
it would be something we'd at least have to think about with respect to 
folks using our space as a registered office.

Will


On Monday, September 30, 2019 at 11:46:53 PM UTC+1, sechrest wrote:
>
> I think it would be worth your while to explore and understand what the 
> folks at iglu.net have done in Chiang Mai. They do all the paperwork to 
> get you set up to work in Thailand as an ex-pat. 
>
> I think the issue you identify is a big one, currently under the radar for 
> many folks. 
>
> The hard part is that the rules about work are likely to take a long time 
> to change and adapt to the modern nomad work lifestyle. 
>
> It is also interesting to look at the work they are doing in Estonia to 
> provide paperwork and digital id to people who are doing this kind of work. 
> https://e-estonia.com/tag/nomad-visa/
>
> The choice of where to travel and where to work might start being 
> influenced by these types of policies. 
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 6:48 AM Kimberly Kubalek  > wrote:
>
>> This message is relevant to everyone, but particularly the spaces, like 
>> mine, run by expats in foreign countries. 
>>
>> I have been a huge supporter of Coworking since I met Tony Bacigalupo a 
>> few months after he first opened his space in NYC so many years ago. I knew 
>> after seeing that space that I wanted to open a space as well. It took me 
>> many years, I did it. I live in San Miguel de Allende Mexico and I opened 
>> my space 3 years ago. 
>>
>> Because my Spanish is poor, and because I knew community growth was key, 
>> I targeted membership to expats and English speaking visitors. Which is not 
>> say we limited it this way, only that the community I developed all seemed 
>> to speak English, so those were the members we attracted. We were 
>> successful - being the #1 rated city in the world by Travel + Leisure 
>> helped and lots of interesting folks popped in to work and often folks 
>> moved here permanently (with or without legal permission, many people come 
>> in on a tourist visa and stay for years). 
>>
>> I am working on a plan for a much larger, more sophisticated space and I 
>> have concerns about expats and visitors who have no legal authorization to 
>> be "working" while in Mexico. Our laws are quite clear, you may not work in 
>> Mexico, online, in your home, etc., without authorization or without a 
>> permanent resident visa. I think all international coworking spaces are 
>> 

Re: [Coworking] Work Permission Issues

[Alejandro Moreno]

These people are independent contractors. Immigration control is not your
role to play. All you do arguably is sublet space to tenants. How different
is this really from an Airbnb? When you go to rent a ''space'' from a
landlord in a foreign country, neither the landlord nor Airbnb cares how
you got there, because it's irrelevant. And whether it's for a day, a week
or a month is besides the point.

Additionally, let's say worst case scenario you start checking people's
work permits for Mexico in order to work at your space — what will happen
is you will be setting up a de facto legal precedent for your business,
thereby setting up a slippery slope of liability for yourself, and placing
yourself in a legal position that you never should've had to deal with or
be in, in the first place.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Alejandro Moreno S. 
Cofounder/VP VenturePad 
SEC Marin  Organizer
628-253-6441
LinkedIn  Twitter



On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 8:48 AM Bernie J Mitchell <
ber...@berniejmitchell.com> wrote:

> This is a great question for the experience of @Jeannine van der Linden
>  and @Hector Kolonas 
>
> Have a remarkable day
>
> Bernie J Mitchell
> 0777 204 2012
>
> www.berniejmitchell.com
> 
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> *Unless we agree otherwise, this email conversation is confidential.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 14:48, Kimberly Kubalek 
> wrote:
>
>> This message is relevant to everyone, but particularly the spaces, like
>> mine, run by expats in foreign countries.
>>
>> I have been a huge supporter of Coworking since I met Tony Bacigalupo a
>> few months after he first opened his space in NYC so many years ago. I knew
>> after seeing that space that I wanted to open a space as well. It took me
>> many years, I did it. I live in San Miguel de Allende Mexico and I opened
>> my space 3 years ago.
>>
>> Because my Spanish is poor, and because I knew community growth was key,
>> I targeted membership to expats and English speaking visitors. Which is not
>> say we limited it this way, only that the community I developed all seemed
>> to speak English, so those were the members we attracted. We were
>> successful - being the #1 rated city in the world by Travel + Leisure
>> helped and lots of interesting folks popped in to work and often folks
>> moved here permanently (with or without legal permission, many people come
>> in on a tourist visa and stay for years).
>>
>> I am working on a plan for a much larger, more sophisticated space and I
>> have concerns about expats and visitors who have no legal authorization to
>> be "working" while in Mexico. Our laws are quite clear, you may not work in
>> Mexico, online, in your home, etc., without authorization or without a
>> permanent resident visa. I think all international coworking spaces are
>> going to have to face this one. Do you ask your members if they have
>> permission to work in your country? Do you feel you can protect your
>> members when government officials come in and ask to see your members
>> documents? Are you concerned about liability?
>>
>> I think this a valid concern and I'd like to hear from other space
>> owners. I do not want to be a hunting ground for officials looking for
>> people breaking the law - and who would want to work in a coworking space
>> where they knew the government was going to come around and ask to see
>> visas?! What do you do to make sure the people working in your space
>> have the right to work there? Does it matter to you at all? Do you think it
>> should matter?
>>
>> I was just in Austin for 3 months and coworked all over, no one ever
>> asked. Not one coworking space ever asked if I had permission to work in
>> the USA while I was there. If someone works out of your space and is not
>> legally entiled to be working in your country, is that an issue you think
>> about? Does this issue concern you?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>>
>>
>> Kimberly
>>
>>
>>
>> Kimberly Kubalek, Owner
>>
>> Espacio Coworking - San Miguel de Allende
>>
>> +52 415 150 1069 MEX Office
>>
>> +52 415 167 4566 MEX Cell
>> +1 858 367 0102 USA Voicemail
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Coworking" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to coworking+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/coworking/b50c95ee-4fc8-46c9-b411-2e46777ff65b%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to 

Re: [Coworking] Work Permission Issues

[John Sechrest]

I think it would be worth your while to explore and understand what the
folks at iglu.net have done in Chiang Mai. They do all the paperwork to get
you set up to work in Thailand as an ex-pat.

I think the issue you identify is a big one, currently under the radar for
many folks.

The hard part is that the rules about work are likely to take a long time
to change and adapt to the modern nomad work lifestyle.

It is also interesting to look at the work they are doing in Estonia to
provide paperwork and digital id to people who are doing this kind of work.
https://e-estonia.com/tag/nomad-visa/

The choice of where to travel and where to work might start being
influenced by these types of policies.



On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 6:48 AM Kimberly Kubalek 
wrote:

> This message is relevant to everyone, but particularly the spaces, like
> mine, run by expats in foreign countries.
>
> I have been a huge supporter of Coworking since I met Tony Bacigalupo a
> few months after he first opened his space in NYC so many years ago. I knew
> after seeing that space that I wanted to open a space as well. It took me
> many years, I did it. I live in San Miguel de Allende Mexico and I opened
> my space 3 years ago.
>
> Because my Spanish is poor, and because I knew community growth was key, I
> targeted membership to expats and English speaking visitors. Which is not
> say we limited it this way, only that the community I developed all seemed
> to speak English, so those were the members we attracted. We were
> successful - being the #1 rated city in the world by Travel + Leisure
> helped and lots of interesting folks popped in to work and often folks
> moved here permanently (with or without legal permission, many people come
> in on a tourist visa and stay for years).
>
> I am working on a plan for a much larger, more sophisticated space and I
> have concerns about expats and visitors who have no legal authorization to
> be "working" while in Mexico. Our laws are quite clear, you may not work in
> Mexico, online, in your home, etc., without authorization or without a
> permanent resident visa. I think all international coworking spaces are
> going to have to face this one. Do you ask your members if they have
> permission to work in your country? Do you feel you can protect your
> members when government officials come in and ask to see your members
> documents? Are you concerned about liability?
>
> I think this a valid concern and I'd like to hear from other space owners. I
> do not want to be a hunting ground for officials looking for people
> breaking the law - and who would want to work in a coworking space where
> they knew the government was going to come around and ask to see visas?! What
> do you do to make sure the people working in your space have the right to
> work there? Does it matter to you at all? Do you think it should matter?
>
> I was just in Austin for 3 months and coworked all over, no one ever
> asked. Not one coworking space ever asked if I had permission to work in
> the USA while I was there. If someone works out of your space and is not
> legally entiled to be working in your country, is that an issue you think
> about? Does this issue concern you?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>
>
> Kimberly
>
>
>
> Kimberly Kubalek, Owner
>
> Espacio Coworking - San Miguel de Allende
>
> +52 415 150 1069 MEX Office
>
> +52 415 167 4566 MEX Cell
> +1 858 367 0102 USA Voicemail
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Coworking" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to coworking+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/coworking/b50c95ee-4fc8-46c9-b411-2e46777ff65b%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
John Sechrest  .  Need to schedule a meeting :
http://sechrest.youcanbookme.com
   .
.
.

  .
 sechr...@gmail.com
   .
   @sechrest  

 .
http://www.oomaat.com
   .

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Re: [Coworking] Work Permission Issues

['David Weekly' via Coworking]

If you are a person's employer, you absolutely must ensure that your
employees have work authorization or you might be in serious trouble.

But I have no idea why a coworking space would need to know your visa
status, any more than your morning coffee bar would need to ensure your
presence was legal before serving you a latte. Depending on local laws it
may be illegal for you to condition entry to the space on work status.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 06:48 Kimberly Kubalek 
wrote:

> This message is relevant to everyone, but particularly the spaces, like
> mine, run by expats in foreign countries.
>
> I have been a huge supporter of Coworking since I met Tony Bacigalupo a
> few months after he first opened his space in NYC so many years ago. I knew
> after seeing that space that I wanted to open a space as well. It took me
> many years, I did it. I live in San Miguel de Allende Mexico and I opened
> my space 3 years ago.
>
> Because my Spanish is poor, and because I knew community growth was key, I
> targeted membership to expats and English speaking visitors. Which is not
> say we limited it this way, only that the community I developed all seemed
> to speak English, so those were the members we attracted. We were
> successful - being the #1 rated city in the world by Travel + Leisure
> helped and lots of interesting folks popped in to work and often folks
> moved here permanently (with or without legal permission, many people come
> in on a tourist visa and stay for years).
>
> I am working on a plan for a much larger, more sophisticated space and I
> have concerns about expats and visitors who have no legal authorization to
> be "working" while in Mexico. Our laws are quite clear, you may not work in
> Mexico, online, in your home, etc., without authorization or without a
> permanent resident visa. I think all international coworking spaces are
> going to have to face this one. Do you ask your members if they have
> permission to work in your country? Do you feel you can protect your
> members when government officials come in and ask to see your members
> documents? Are you concerned about liability?
>
> I think this a valid concern and I'd like to hear from other space owners. I
> do not want to be a hunting ground for officials looking for people
> breaking the law - and who would want to work in a coworking space where
> they knew the government was going to come around and ask to see visas?! What
> do you do to make sure the people working in your space have the right to
> work there? Does it matter to you at all? Do you think it should matter?
>
> I was just in Austin for 3 months and coworked all over, no one ever
> asked. Not one coworking space ever asked if I had permission to work in
> the USA while I was there. If someone works out of your space and is not
> legally entiled to be working in your country, is that an issue you think
> about? Does this issue concern you?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>
>
> Kimberly
>
>
>
> Kimberly Kubalek, Owner
>
> Espacio Coworking - San Miguel de Allende
>
> +52 415 150 1069 MEX Office
>
> +52 415 167 4566 MEX Cell
> +1 858 367 0102 USA Voicemail
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Coworking" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to coworking+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/coworking/b50c95ee-4fc8-46c9-b411-2e46777ff65b%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Cheers,
 David E. Weekly (@dweekly)

-- 
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Re: [Coworking] Work Permission Issues

[Bernie J Mitchell]

This is a great question for the experience of @Jeannine van der Linden
 and @Hector Kolonas 

Have a remarkable day

Bernie J Mitchell
0777 204 2012

www.berniejmitchell.com


Sent from my mobile device

*Unless we agree otherwise, this email conversation is confidential.



On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 14:48, Kimberly Kubalek 
wrote:

> This message is relevant to everyone, but particularly the spaces, like
> mine, run by expats in foreign countries.
>
> I have been a huge supporter of Coworking since I met Tony Bacigalupo a
> few months after he first opened his space in NYC so many years ago. I knew
> after seeing that space that I wanted to open a space as well. It took me
> many years, I did it. I live in San Miguel de Allende Mexico and I opened
> my space 3 years ago.
>
> Because my Spanish is poor, and because I knew community growth was key, I
> targeted membership to expats and English speaking visitors. Which is not
> say we limited it this way, only that the community I developed all seemed
> to speak English, so those were the members we attracted. We were
> successful - being the #1 rated city in the world by Travel + Leisure
> helped and lots of interesting folks popped in to work and often folks
> moved here permanently (with or without legal permission, many people come
> in on a tourist visa and stay for years).
>
> I am working on a plan for a much larger, more sophisticated space and I
> have concerns about expats and visitors who have no legal authorization to
> be "working" while in Mexico. Our laws are quite clear, you may not work in
> Mexico, online, in your home, etc., without authorization or without a
> permanent resident visa. I think all international coworking spaces are
> going to have to face this one. Do you ask your members if they have
> permission to work in your country? Do you feel you can protect your
> members when government officials come in and ask to see your members
> documents? Are you concerned about liability?
>
> I think this a valid concern and I'd like to hear from other space owners. I
> do not want to be a hunting ground for officials looking for people
> breaking the law - and who would want to work in a coworking space where
> they knew the government was going to come around and ask to see visas?! What
> do you do to make sure the people working in your space have the right to
> work there? Does it matter to you at all? Do you think it should matter?
>
> I was just in Austin for 3 months and coworked all over, no one ever
> asked. Not one coworking space ever asked if I had permission to work in
> the USA while I was there. If someone works out of your space and is not
> legally entiled to be working in your country, is that an issue you think
> about? Does this issue concern you?
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>
>
> Kimberly
>
>
>
> Kimberly Kubalek, Owner
>
> Espacio Coworking - San Miguel de Allende
>
> +52 415 150 1069 MEX Office
>
> +52 415 167 4566 MEX Cell
> +1 858 367 0102 USA Voicemail
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Coworking" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to coworking+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/coworking/b50c95ee-4fc8-46c9-b411-2e46777ff65b%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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