Re: [alg] OPT: Re: crypto flaw in secure mail standards (fwd)
There is another problem, because the clock of a modern computer can be set to any given time, there is no purely cryptographic way to be satisfied that a given document existed at a given time, if you do not trust the computer (and the person controling it) generating the timestamp. There is a third party solution to this problem exiting on the internet. The PGP Digital Timestamping Service at http://www.itconsult.co.uk/stamper.htm In the general case, there is no reason to mistrust this third party, since the service is automated, and does not have time to scan your timestamp requests to participate in order to comspire against you. In addition, summaries of timestamp requests are posted to usenet newgroups, where they are presumably archived at many archiving sites. Thus if you do carefull checking, the only way timestamp fraud could work would be if this site, together with all the usenet archiving sites that you checked, were engaged in a conspiracy against you. Hopefully, you will think the probablility of this is small. -- Paul Elliott 1(512)837-9345 1(512)837-1096PGP Digital Timestamping Service [EMAIL PROTECTED]PMB 181, 11900 Metric Blvd Suite J http://www.io.com/~pelliott/pme/ Austin TX 78758-3117 PGP signature
OPT: Re: crypto flaw in secure mail standards (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: 22 Jun 2001 13:27:14 -0400 From: Derek Atkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Don Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: crypto flaw in secure mail standards This is not a crypto flaw. This is an engineering flaw. First, the timestamp of the message is certainly encoded in the signature. This is protection against your first suggested attack. The recipient, upon verifying the signature, notices that it was made, e.g., two months previously. Then one would have to wonder why a two-month-old message was being sent. The other obvious problem is that although the sender's identity is encoded in the message's signature (as well as the time the signature is purported to be made), the original intended recipient's are not encoded within the signed portion of the message. The simple fix would be to include the appropriate mail headers withing the signed portion of the message. In particular, including the 'To' and 'Cc' fields would immediately protect against both of these attacks. The problem is not at all with the crypto. The problem is with the integration of the crypto with applications like e-mail. Have a nice day, -derek Don Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All current secure-mail standards specify, as their high- security option, a weak use of the public-key sign and encrypt operations. On Thursday the 28th of this month, I'll present my findings and my proposed repairs of the protocols, at the Usenix Technical Conference here in Boston: http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix01/usenix01.pdf Citation: Don Davis, Defective Sign Encrypt in S/MIME, PKCS#7, MOSS, PEM, PGP, and XML. To appear in Proc. Usenix Tech. Conf. 2001, Boston. June 25-30, 2001. A short summary: All current secure-mail standards have a significant cryptographic flaw. There are several standard ways to send and read secure e-mail. The most well-known secure mail systems are PGP and S/MIME. All current public- key-based secure-mail standards have this flaw. Here are some examples of the flaw in action: Suppose Alice and Bob are business partners, and are setting up a deal together. Suppose Alice decides to call off the deal, so she sends Bob a secure-mail message: The deal is off. Then Bob can get even with Alice: * Bob waits until Alice has a new deal in the works with Charlle; * Bob can abuse the secure e-mail protocol to re-encrypt and resend Alice's message to Charlie; * When Charlie receives Alice's message, he'll believe that the mail-security features guarantee that Alice sent the message to Charlie. * Charlie abandons his deal with Alice. Suppose instead that Alice Bob are coworkers. Alice uses secure e-mail to send Bob her sensitive company-internal sales plan. Bob decides to get his rival Alice fired: * Bob abuses the secure e-mail protocol to re-encrypt and resend Alice's sales-plan, with her digital signature, to a rival company's salesman Charlie. * Charlie brags openly about getting the sales plan from Alice. When he's accused in court of stealing the plan, Charlie presents Alice's secure e-mail as evidence of his innocence. Surprisingly, standards-compliant secure-mail clients will not detect these attacks. -- Abstract Simple Sign Encrypt, by itself, is not very secure. Cryptographers know this well, but application programmers and standards authors still tend to put too much trust in simple Sign-and-Encrypt. In fact, every secure e-mail protocol, old and new, has codified na=EFve Sign Encrypt as acceptable security practice. S/MIME, PKCS#7, PGP, OpenPGP, PEM, and MOSS all suffer from this flaw. Similarly, the secure document protocols PKCS#7, XML- Signature, and XML-Encryption suffer from the same flaw. Na=EFve Sign Encrypt appears only in file-security and mail-security applications, but this narrow scope is becoming more important to the rapidly-growing class of commercial users. With file- and mail-encryption seeing widespread use, and with flawed encryption in play, we can expect widespread exposures. In this paper, we analyze the na=EFve Sign Encrypt flaw, we review the defective sign/encrypt standards, and we describe a comprehensive set of simple repairs. The various repairs all have a common feature: when signing and encryption are combined, the inner crypto layer must somehow depend on the outer layer, so as to reveal any tampering with the outer layer. Once I've presented the paper, I'll make this link live: http://world.std.com/~dtd/sign_encrypt/sign_encrypt7.ps - don davis, boston http://world.std.com/~dtd - - The Cryptography Mailing List
RE: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: petro[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ A Fire Upon The Deep You missed A Deepness in the Sky, written by Vinge, and published in 1999. Crypto plays an important part of the story, and, well, it's Vinge, it's worth a read. ... as does privacy, surveillance tech and it's avoidance, etc. Excellent book. But Did you catch the hint that they're running an Unix-descended OS? ...it's pretty well hidden. Peter Trei
RE: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: petro[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ A Fire Upon The Deep You missed A Deepness in the Sky, written by Vinge, and published in 1999. Crypto plays an important part of the story, and, well, it's Vinge, it's worth a read. ... as does privacy, surveillance tech and it's avoidance, etc. Excellent book. But Did you catch the hint that they're running an Unix-descended OS? ...it's pretty well hidden. Peter Trei
RE: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: petro[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ A Fire Upon The Deep You missed A Deepness in the Sky, written by Vinge, and published in 1999. Crypto plays an important part of the story, and, well, it's Vinge, it's worth a read. ... as does privacy, surveillance tech and it's avoidance, etc. Excellent book. But Did you catch the hint that they're running an Unix-descended OS? ...it's pretty well hidden. The only hint I saw was that the time system was based on number of seconds from a base time that was almost, but not quite, the same as the first lunar landing. 1/1/1970, anyone? Excellent book. -- -- Marshall Marshall Clow Idio Software mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey! Who messed with my anti-paranoia shot?
Re: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ A Fire Upon The Deep I think Vernor Vinge would have to be my favourite science fiction author, just pipping out Stephenson. A Fire Upon The Deep is a tour de force of 90's science fiction. It actually has very little crypto in it, so it is hard for me to award it more than 3 bits of entropy. The main players ship out of a port with a third part of a one time pad. The other two parts ship via other means - a security precaution. The one time slice never makes it to its destination, but is used later in a last ditch effort to establish comms with the good guys, whilst being chased by the bad guys across the universe. This is not a funny book, but Vinge's humour comes through with a single crypto joke which still makes me laugh. To enjoy the joke, you'll have to buy the book. You missed A Deepness in the Sky, written by Vinge, and published in 1999. Crypto plays an important part of the story, and, well, it's Vinge, it's worth a read. -- -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Crypto Survey May 2001 by Markku J. Saarelainen (fwd)
-- ...where annual election ends, tyranny begins; Thomas Jefferson Samuel Adams The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:04:37 -0700 From: Markku Saarelainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Crypto Survey May 2001 by Markku J. Saarelainen CRYPTO SURVEY MAY 2001 Cryptographic Survey, May 2001, Markku J. Saarelainen Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A SUMMARY CONCLUSION: The major societal development since the 1st and 2nd crypto surveys in 1996 and 1997 has been the removal of many regulatory barriers for open trading of cryptographic products in the North America and globally. In addition, the number of cryptographic applications and component implementations has increased, while at the same time the variety of different types of solutions has risen. This does not necessarily mean the wider use of encryption in businesses and personal activities. Many same or similar behavioral barriers for the effective utilization of many security solutions still exist limiting the protection of communications, data storage and networking. In addition, the lack of the interoperability between solutions from different suppliers tends to decrease the number of effective cryptography users worldwide. It is clear that the awareness for encrypted communication and protected information activities has increased, while necessary regulatory changes for protectin! g ! entities from security vulnerabilities has enabled cryptographic product suppliers to satisfy market requirements in the U.S.A., in the North America and globally. However, regulatory and cultural differences exist from one nation or region to another creating a global unbalanced situation of the security use, which has the reducing effect on security practices and policy implementations of any global entity in different regions. This impacts on the interoperability of units of global entities. It is likely that there shall be greater competing drives in the information technology market place between different security strategies and approaches from different software and hardware product and security suppliers. QUESTION 1. In your opinion, what are the 5-10 most significant applications of encryption technologies currently in commercial enterprises? 1. HTTP over SSL (aka HTTPS) / SSL for credit card processing / SSL / Web-activity privacy (SSL) 2. IPsec 3. RSA Secure ID (maybe) 4. Online Credit Card Processing Financial Transfers 5. VPNs / Virtual Private Networks for widely distributed offices / VPN for remote access to Intranet 6. Email encryption (via PGP/GPG or SMIME) / Encrypted Messages / Email Privacy 7. Digital signing authentication of messages 8. Consensus and voting software (not now but give it 5 years) 9. Encrypted file systems for sensitive data 10. Signing software for installation 11. Signing email messages to show official authority 12. Wireless local area network encryption 13. Password protection/access control 14. Data protection 15. Session protection (VPN's) 16. Authentication and authorization / Customer authentication (e.g. PIN checking) 17. Securing B2B file exchange 18. PKI 19. Remote secure teleworking 20. Digital signatures 21. Time-stamping QUESTION 2. In your opinion, what are 5-10 main barriers currently that may prevent the successful implementation and utilization of encryption technologies in commercial enterprises? 1. Ignorance of risks prevents purchase 2. Dishonest portrayal of product (i.e.: false security claims and blatant product holes in end-to-end protection) promotes distrust in the whole industry 3. Most products are a waste of time because they are not a comprehensive solution - e.g.: why bother using PGP when there is nothing in any NAI products to protect against back-office-style electronic eavesdropping attacks? 4. Many people do not care about cryptography and/or security products 5. Having lived happily without serious protection for a long while, most customers believe there is no point retrofitting an expensive solution for a problem they do not have (and many of them are probably right...) 6. Lack of knowledge by decision-maker 7. Low
Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices
From: Matthew Gaylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ian Grigg's Crypto Fiction Choices Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iang.org/crypto_fiction/ Crypto Fiction Crypto novels are not that common. It's an esoteric subject that remains too small to even justify a niche title. Most of the treatments relate to only fringe interests. There is a bit of a revival in crypto interest within the 90's science fiction genre. This can be traced back to authors who are influenced by the net, and geographically, it's clear that the main stars in this revival hail from or are influenced by the bay area and the cypherpunks movement. For what it's worth, and to generate some commissions for Cryptix, I list here some crypto novels I've read. I rate them with bits of entropy, as a sort of reverse correlation with relevance. This rating isn't necessarily a view that this book is good or bad, just that it has a valued combination of readability and cryptology. If you're looking for a present for that pesky relative that keeps asking so, what is it that you do? then you may find the answer below. Cryptonominon The leading light in the crypto novel scene has to be Cryptonomicon. This book, the fourth by trail blazing net author Neal Stephenson, is recent, having been published in mid 1999, and remains the only financial cryptography novel I have come across. Cryptonomicon is an achievment, with a deserved 5 random bits of entropy, and it will become the novel against which all others are compared. In brief, Randy Waterhouse and his startup companions embark on laying fibre around the Phillipines. Whilst building, new opportunities arise, chief of which is the combination of a local Sultan who wishes to build a data haven, and a rumour of a mountain of lost gold. What lifts this book out of the ordinary, and indeed, camoflages the fairly simple plot, is the two intertwined threads separated by two generations. Randy's grandfather and a WWII team of crypto scientists work on dampening the Axis' ability to detect the Enigma cracks, coincidentally laying foundations for Randy's attempts to historically decrypt his forbears' trail. This historical story is fascinating, it takes the Enigma story well beyond what has been covered elsewhere. The crypto content is superb. Mathematical basies, Turing and his bicycle, entropy, ciphers, are all woven into the story in a fashion that anyone with high school mathematics could understand. Cryptonomicon has a deeper underlying significance that most will have written off as plot. Along the chase, Randy and his mates discover the opportunity of setting up a private currency, nominally based on the alleged gold. In crisis-ravaged Asia, where currencies fell as systemic failure swept through the banking system, gold- backed currencies, issued over the net, and cryptographically protected from all attackers, is the perfect entrepot forthe issuance of private money. Recall that private currencies disappeared about a century ago, as the newfangled Central Bank idea, born out of Britain, swept the civilised world to mark the 20th century as one of government money and government inflation. For various reasons which we'll gloss over here - read the book - the time of private currencies has come again. But it was not in the prediction of a new financial world that the subtelty of Stephenson's research, and indeed unnamed advisors, shows. It is in the fact that the model he presents for a gold-backed currency is state of the art, in an art that was forgotten a hundred years ago, and indeed was only poorly understood then. Readers could even be forgiven for accusing the art to be stateless, if it wasn't for the existance of at least one tiny Internet private currency, backed by gold. It was these guys, the e-gold private currency, who airshipped me a copy to read and respond. But there is no response possible, as Stephenson got it right. Prospective private currency issuers now have a novel that will save them from countless mistakes, and I now have an answer to that question, so, what is it that you're doing that takes you so far from home? Enigma In all the fictional writings of cryptology, the Enigma machine takes pride of place. Enigma, is no different, but touches little on the machine itself. Robert Harris, author of Fatherland, presents a story of spies and intrigue set amongst the paranoic secrecy of Bletchley Park. Like Cryptonomicon, the historical protagonist is a mathematician at the core of the code breaking effort. This story is cryptologically valuable for its description of Bletchley Park, even to the workflow and passage of the information through the now quaint series of human I/O devices, computers, and analysts. As a novel, it is well written and entirely readable, falling within the class of WWII / spies / detectives, and I rate it with 3 bits of entropy. The Last Lieutenant Corregidor features yet again
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on CNBC during Power Lunch. Tuesday, Jun 5 2001 at 01:50 PM ..but there is a stock that is moving on this news coming out of nevada bill with the boys last week joe crypto logic you know this is a long way .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3342491Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href=http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882; AOL users click here /a
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on CNBC during Power Lunch. Tuesday, Jun 5 2001 at 12:48 PM ..being very aggressive with this sell call we re not following any real order or industry segment here so i will move on to crypto logic company you will recall .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3342289Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href=http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882; AOL users click here /a
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on CNBC during Power Lunch. Friday, Jun 1 2001 at 12:00 PM ..universal acquiring the publisher jim paymar covering that for us also with us ceo of crypto logic on line gambling been a winner .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3332865Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href=http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882; AOL users click here /a
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on CNBC during Power Lunch. Friday, Jun 1 2001 at 12:26 PM ..averages x then the boys from the dow jones news wires will join us and we will talk internet game was crypto logic this companies have been on run .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3332966Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href=http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882; AOL users click here /a
Crypto Survey
5/23/2001 Dear Encryption Specialist, this survey is the continuation to two cryptographic surveys in 1996 and 1997. The objective is to evaluate the current state of the encryption products and markets of these products. I shall prepare the summary of all received responses and I shall provide this summary and any necessary details for all those who responded to the survey. In my analysis, I shall also review all received responses with the results from the surveys in 1996 and 1997. I would appreciate it greatly, if you reviewed the survey questions below and emailed your responses to my email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject line Responses to Crypto Survey - thank you very much in advance. My Wishes, Markku J. Saarelainen Sr. Researcher QUESTION 1. In your opinion, what are the 5-10 most significant applications of encryption technologies currently in commercial enterprises? QUESTION 2. In your opinion, what are 5-10 main barriers currently that may prevent the successful implementation and utilization of encryption technologies in commercial enterprises? QUESTION 3. What are activities and projects that can be initiated and taken to lower and reduce above barriers (see the question 2.)? - Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: The Crypto State
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Ray Dillinger wrote: I have been studying cryptographic protocols for consensus action of late, and I have come to a somewhat startling conclusion. If a society is sufficiently rich in cryptographic protocols, there is no need for anyone to work for a government. Holy shit, we agree (at least in major part)... Note '...no need for anyone to work for a government.' is NOT equivalent to '...no government.' The solution lies in the heart of humankind. Chris Lawson The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: The Crypto State
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Ray Dillinger wrote: The only sticking point is the exercise of violence -- and even there, it is possible to create a system that issues warrants only when a large number of people agree that it's the right thing to do. If we posit that an ordinary citizen, if they so desired, could take a police-action warrant and execute it, thereby claiming the 'cash attached to the action, then the last necessary government employee becomes simply a contractor. It's cheaper to run a court and a cop than run around trying to tie 'large number of people' down for every traffic ticket. At some point they've got to quit worrying about giving 'equal say' (one sort of democracy) and use 'equal representation' (which is another sort all together). We happen to have a Constitution that through the 1st gives us both (in principle anyway). The solution lies in the heart of humankind. Chris Lawson The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
The Crypto State
I have been studying cryptographic protocols for consensus action of late, and I have come to a somewhat startling conclusion. If a society is sufficiently rich in cryptographic protocols, there is no need for anyone to work for a government. The only sticking point is the exercise of violence -- and even there, it is possible to create a system that issues warrants only when a large number of people agree that it's the right thing to do. If we posit that an ordinary citizen, if they so desired, could take a police-action warrant and execute it, thereby claiming the 'cash attached to the action, then the last necessary government employee becomes simply a contractor. I do not know whether such a society would be more free than the society we have now; Protocols also allow the collection of taxes, protection of wetlands, and other things unbeloved of strict libertarians. If you speed, or drive on the wrong side of the highway, a warrant will issue in seconds only, and then the ticket is going to show up on your heads-up display and the money for the ticket is going to automatically drain out of your bank account. Maybe there's some kind of general asshole ticket that contains the key to remotely kill your engine, assembled from several hundred shares held by people your driving has pissed off since you bought the car. Your insurer could check the engine, see how many shares of that key are registering per month, and guage what to charge you without even necessarily knowing your name. If most of the people believed that ordinary citizens shouldn't have guns, then sooner or later, guns would be banned. The point is, people could pick and choose the policies they wanted in terms of law and governance, implement them as protocols, and run them free of the prejudices, fears, and reinterpretations of human officials other than the governed themselves. The kick is that there can even be a protocol for changing the set of protocols and enforcing the change against holdouts (a variation on the 'byzantine generals' protocol). But anyway, my conclusion is that it is possible to get basic business taken care of -- whatever 'basic business' means to the people living there -- without creating a priveleged class or a class 'more equal' than anyone else in the form of politicians, judges, etc. Basically, if the people are rich enough in cryptographic protocols, computing power, and communications infrastructure, then government employees are not necessary. I think AP may have contained the germ of this idea; but Bell was perhaps too much of a nihilist to develop it in this direction, and more bent on destruction than creation. Bear
Swedish crypto math mailinglist (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 02:16:29 +0200 (CEST) From: "Bluefish (P.Magnusson)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Swedish crypto math mailinglist Hi I'd like to send announce a new mailinglist: http://www.ludd.luth.se/~bluefish/ciphermath/ Basicly it is a swedish mailinglist where anything which is math or cryptography is on topic. The list is very new and have few subscribers, so feel free to change that... Currently there have been some mails regarding designing cryptographic open source hardware blocks in VHDL, which I plan to participate in this summer, and some rather basic math. - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The ultimate authority...resides in the people alone. James Madison The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on FNC during Hannity Colmes. Tuesday, Apr 3 2001 at 09:05 PM ..ditch the plane and pitch all the equipment crews are extremely well trained in this regard taking all the crypto gear shredding it ripping it apart .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3157835Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href="http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882" AOL users click here /a
crypto
Your keyword(s), crypto, was recently spoken on FNC during Special Report. Tuesday, Apr 3 2001 at 06:23 PM ..is how we gather the information and what technology we have they would be able to destroy the crypto gear within the aircraft .. For details, visit http://www.TVEyes.com/database/expand.asp?ln=3157299Key=crypto Just follow the above link to keep your account active for this keyword. For total control of your keywords, go to http://www.tveyes.com/log_in.asp Marriott and Renaissance Hotels Help You Stay Connected: By 2001 almost every room will have high-speed internet service powered by ATT. This means you will have 50 times faster-than-typical Internet connection from the comfort of your room. And you get a full day of Internet access for one low price. Click here to make your reservation and stay connected! http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882 a href="http://by.advertising.com/1/c/23066/9974//13882" AOL users click here /a
CRYPTO AG, anyone?
Hi List I'm looking for additional information concerning the swiss company Crypto AG. I have found already the available articles online, Madsens 'Trojan Whore'-article, JYA, etc, but if possible, I'd like to see, if any listmembers can help me with further infos. Specifically, I'm interested in: 1: Copies of memos and documents mentioned in articles by Baltimore Sun, Der spiegel, CAQ. 2: Has anyone had a chance to look at their Ipsec-products? Cell-phones? I hope theres some listmember, who might be able to help. Yours Bo Elkjaer, Denmark Oh: Update on the SIGINT-situation in Denmark: A US citizen was recently observed in the danish SIGINT site Skibsbylejren. The danish minister of defense has acknowledged this and confirms, that the american works for a US company, that was hired to install equipment at the site. He and his company also works for the US Department of Commerce. The danish government have acknowledged to have had meetings with representatives from US Gov, including representatives fom NSA regarding encryption-technologies and policies in Denmark. Minutes from the meetings are classified. The danish government won't acknowledge that these meetings still take place, but they won't deny it either. Remarkably, our minister of science started out to deny in a written letter to parliament, that these meetings still take place. This written statement with the denial was withheld after pressure from the danish minister of justice, Frank Jensen. The danish parliament will have a new debate on SIGINT and encryption next month. -- EOT
CRYPTO AG, anyone?
Hi List I'm looking for additional information concerning the swiss company Crypto AG. I have found already the available articles online, Madsens 'Trojan Whore'-article, JYA, etc, but if possible, I'd like to see, if any listmembers can help me with further infos. Specifically, I'm interested in: 1: Copies of memos and documents mentioned in articles by Baltimore Sun, Der spiegel, CAQ. 2: Has anyone had a chance to look at their Ipsec-products? Cell-phones? I hope theres some listmember, who might be able to help. Yours Bo Elkjaer, Denmark Oh: Update on the SIGINT-situation in Denmark: A US citizen was recently observed in the danish SIGINT site Skibsbylejren. The danish minister of defense has acknowledged this and confirms, that the american works for a US company, that was hired to install equipment at the site. He and his company also works for the US Department of Commerce. The danish government have acknowledged to have had meetings with representatives from US Gov, including representatives fom NSA regarding encryption-technologies and policies in Denmark. Minutes from the meetings are classified. The danish government won't acknowledge that these meetings still take place, but they won't deny it either. Remarkably, our minister of science started out to deny in a written letter to parliament, that these meetings still take place. This written statement with the denial was withheld after pressure from the danish minister of justice, Frank Jensen. The danish parliament will have a new debate on SIGINT and encryption next month. -- EOT
Stegonography -- The New Crypto Boogieman
In the Oregonian March 19, 2001 Page D1 there is an article entitled "Hidden Content -- Criminals use steganography to send illicit data in what appears to be innocuous files". The article can be found here: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/business/oregonian/01/03/technw/fn_21stega19.frame This thing trots our every horseman under the sun, from Terrorists, nerve gas makers, and every other fear mongering group possible. You have to read it to believe it. It reads just like a press release from the FBI's department of disinformation. Probably the most fear-mongering peice of crap I have read in the Oregonian in quite a while. (Even beyond the headline about vampire cults (i.e. Goths) being responsible for blood drinking murders.) Stego is going to be the big target for anti-crypto propaganda. Expect similar stories in a paper near you. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen| to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
Slashdot | Is Crypto Solely for Criminals?
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/11/0427238.shtml -- Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. Locke The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Crypto Short Course (fwd)
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:32:58 -0500 From: "R. A. Hettinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Crypto Short Course --- begin forwarded text Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:10:03 -0500 (EST) From: Christof Paar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WPI Crypto Seminar -- Fall 2000 EE 578/CS 578: ; Subject: Crypto Short Course Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Christof Paar [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am offering again a 4 day short course in applied crypto. A brief outline is below. For more info about the course contents and registration, please see our web site at http://www.ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/courses/short_course.html Regards, Christof ! WORKSHOP ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC HARDWARE AND EMBEDDED SYSTEMS (CHES 2001) ! ! Paris, France, May 13-16, 2001 ! ! www.chesworkshop.org ! *** Christof Paar, Assistant Professor Cryptography and Information Security (CRIS) Group ECE Dept., WPI, 100 Institute Rd., Worcester, MA 01609, USA fon:(508) 831 5061 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] fax:(508) 831 5491 www: http://www.ece.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html *** Worcester Polytechnic Institute 4-Day Short Course April 16,17 26,27 WPI Southborough Campus APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY AND DATA SECURITY Seminar Leader: Dr. Christof Paar COMPLETE COURSE INFORMATION AND REGISTRATION: www.ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/courses/short_course.html COURSE OUTLINE Day 1, AM - Introduction to Cryptography and Data Security Overview. Private-Key Cryptosystems. Cryptanalysis. Day 1, PM - Stream Ciphers Random Number Generators. Synchronous Stream Ciphers and LFSRs. Attacks. One Time Pad. Unconditional and Computational Security. Day 2, AM - Block Ciphers: DES and AES DES Functionality and History; Implementation: Hardware and Software; Attacks and Security Estimations. AES: Functionality and History; Hardware and Software Implementations. Other block ciphers. Key length and security. Day 2, PM - Modes and Variants of Block Ciphers Operation modes of block ciphers. Multiple encryption. Key whitening. Day 3, AM - Public-key Cryptography Principle. Some Number Theory. Overview of Practical Schemes. Public-Key standards (ANSI, IEEE). Day 3, PM - Public-key Algorithms RSA Cryptosystem: Functionality, implementational aspects, recent attacks and security estimations. Diffie-Hellman key exchange. Elliptic curve cryptosystems: principle, practical and security aspects. Day 4, AM - Digital Signatures and Protocols Digital Signatures. Authentication Codes (MACs). Hash Functions. Protocols for Privacy, Authentication, Integrity, Non-Repudiation. Challenge-and-response protocols. Day 4, PM - Key Distribution and Case Study Key Distribution: Private-key approaches, public-Key approaches. Certificates. Key Derivation. Case Study: Secure Socket Layer Protocol. For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Network crypto is not enough: One example of why.
A touching faith that no muggers read cypherpunks. Or, perhaps more importantly, no-one who might be in the market for cheap 2nd-hand computers. Ray Dillinger wrote: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, John Young wrote: Ray, Please tell the make and model of the laptop, where it was lifted and other details that would help a good samaritan recognize it as what you say it is and has in its innards. It is a compaq armada m700, with 128M memory and 6G hard drive. It got kiped in San Francisco, on the western edge of a neighborhood known as hunter's point. It has already been reported to the appropriate police, but that's mainly pro forma; in the recovery of such items they are nearly useless. The application is called "Neuroserver". It exists in a full GUI development environment/compiler (NSAE) and a windows service (NSRE) with associated runtime admin tools. There's also a solaris version, but that wasn't on the machine she had. If you want to know more about the application, you can ask it about itself - go to http://www.nativeminds.com, turn on cookies and javascript, and follow the "talk to nicole" link. It won't understand you if you get too far outside its subject matter or use sentences too long for it to figure out, but that's par for the course for this moment in time. The dame chopped and shopped your secrets if they were that, copying spooks ploying a bonus from likeminders with the same venal bosses eager to steal when profits peter, copying the boss spooks copying the leaders of the earth and heaven. That's an interesting collection of words. Do you suppose it's a sentence? Bear
Re: Network crypto is not enough: One example of why.
Ray, Please tell the make and model of the laptop, where it was lifted and other details that would help a good samaritan recognize it as what you say it is and has in its innards. No disinfo now. No risk insurance scamming, we've been stung by that. Damn hi-value secret-rich laptops are a menace to the underworld and time wasters for undercovers overloaded with a leak-ploy of the spooks copied by the thousands, when even pawnshops have signs about laptops "who you kiddin." The dame chopped and shopped your secrets if they were that, copying spooks ploying a bonus from likeminders with the same venal bosses eager to steal when profits peter, copying the boss spooks copying the leaders of the earth and heaven. Yrs, No. 38769
Sex, drugs, and technology - demonizing crypto
http://www.sunworld.com/unixinsideronline/swol-02-2001/swol-0223-unixsecurity.html -- The Laws of Serendipity: 1. In order to discover anything, you must be looking for something. 2. If you wish to make an improved product, you must first be engaged in making an inferior one. Tivoli Certification Group, OSCT James Choate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Engineer512-436-1062
How responsible is the vendor of a crypto-enabled product?
I got into an interesting conversation today. Here's the question: if a vendor rolls out a net-enabled product that features a crypto- secured interface, what kind of liability do they face if the interface security is breached? In particular, we were discussing machine controls and the recent incident where it was discovered that one manufacturer was fielding a GPIB control card with TCP/IP Ethernet and no security at all. If a net-connected and secured machine were hacked and death or personal injury resulted, does that make the manufacturer an accessory to manslaughter? Would having a provably good (or provably bad) security layer mitigate this? -- Roy M. Silvernail Proprietor, scytale.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?
At 12:40 PM -0600 2/9/01, Aimee Farr wrote: Gentlemen[*]: [*]appearances suggest an absence of participatory estrogen in here. Females are free to join this list. Some have joined in the past. "On the Internet, no one knows you're a bitch." No, on the internet *EVERYONE'S* a bitch. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** "As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia, whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
Reiserfs and Crypto
Anybody know of any work being done with reiserfs and cypto. The pluggable modules aspect of reiserfs seems made to order for it. Has anybody tried running cfs or tcfs on top of reiserfs? That woouldn't be as cool but ...
Re: (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: Yes. However, I've been here a while. The dynamics of this community is somewhat difficult to grasp, and I can only beg your understanding of the same. One of the crucial things needed to understand what goes on cypherpunks is that about three-quarters of the people see half or less of the posts. Having set up spamfilters adequate to give the list a reasonable S/N, you wind up having cut out a substantial fraction of the signal. Another crucial thing needed to understand what goes on cypherpunks are that certain of the regulars are trolls and/or cranks, and will say utterly outrageous things simply in order to "tweak" the presumed eavesdroppers or scare away people whom they regard as too timid to be worth talking to anyhow. It's best interpreted as performance art after the style of Andy Kaufmann. Regarding the paper you referred us to: While the author has come up with a lot of references as quotes to cite, few or none of them bear directly on the central theme of his paper. He presents a number of people who have a number of interesting things to say, some of them even on topic, but NO research or study that supports his central point of electronic communications as a first cause for the development of mass hate. A vehicle, sure. But not a first cause. And there's nothing really unique about it as a vehicle. Television, in my opinion, is far more dangerous in that regard, due to having fewer available channels. With TV, it takes only a very few people to decide that the airwaves should all be saturated with the same lopsided viewpoints. The internet, by comparison, is chaos. People uninterested in hate will find no reason whatsoever to visit hate sites, and since virtually everything is available (see http://www.bonsaikitten.com/ or http://www.thecorporation.com/oneoffs/96/kittyporn/ for examples of how weird it can get out there) a call to hate can be made by anoyone, but will attract no attention outside the limited community that has self-selected as being a priori interested in it. Even the relatively small set of people who are interested in hate find themselves spoiled for choice; Name any group of people, and you can find dozens of hate-mongers calling for their extermination on the web. In this environment, it is virtually inconcievable that any *one* hate ideology should ever become the dominant hate ideology -- this breaks up the process described in the paper at the "identification of villains" stage. As to the "moral boundaries" issue, I'll have to ask my girlfriend's husband about that - his dissertation was about what musical styles evolve in cultures whose moral boundaries are in conflict or change. Bear
Re: (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
At 04:16 PM 2/12/01 -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote: As to the "moral boundaries" issue, I'll have to ask my girlfriend's husband about that - his dissertation was about what musical styles evolve in cultures whose moral boundaries are in conflict or change. That sounds like an interesting diss, I wonder if he's willing to share? He's obviously willing to share. Note the "My girlfriend's Husband" bit. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ** "As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia, whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
Re: Formal apology (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: Since the paper is so flawed, I'm not sure it's worth discussing at length. But, briefly, is crypto as threatening as witches were? Far from it. It -- and its derivative technologies, such as anonymity -- seems to be perceived more as a way to reclaim lost privacy rather than a new and unusual threat. In that sense, it is a conservative technology. (This could change, and certainly the intelligence community is hand-waving about terrorists again, but I doubt it'll have much luck.) They seem to be having trouble putting the crypto kitten back in the bottle. I wonder who is doing more damage to America's image abroad and at home. Terrorists or the various TLAs. I think the TLAs are ahead on this one. We will know that they have won this particular contest when Jay leno starts making jokes about the absurdity of their boogieman of the day. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen| to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. "In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
Re: Formal apology (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 12:35:57AM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: Well, that's about as nice an apology as I've ever seen on any list, let alone cypherpunks. Aimee's initial message deserves a response. (BTW there is a real Waco, Texas lawyer named Aimee Farr who is interested in these issues, though naturally we can't be certain our correspondent is that person.) She asks for our thoughts on this: http://www.sociology.org/content/vol002.001/ling.html Any paper that seriously quotes the Rimm "study" and R.U. Siris is suspect. [..] Since the paper is so flawed, I'm not sure it's worth discussing at length. But, briefly, is crypto as threatening as witches were? Far from it. It -- and its derivative technologies, such as anonymity -- seems to be perceived more as a way to reclaim lost privacy rather than a new and unusual threat. In that sense, it is a conservative technology. (This could change, and certainly the intelligence community is hand-waving about terrorists again, but I doubt it'll have much luck.) OTOH, there certainly has been another attempt by government to villify crypto users with the recent spate of articles on Osama bin Oceania and other terrorists supposed use of crypto and stego. The Red scare of the 50s was also to a large extent promoted and fanned into flame by elements of the government. While there isn't a "moral boundary crisis" amongst the general public about crypto, there is an attempt at "vilification" and "patterned labelling" of crypto users by the government. And many cypherpunks have predicted the government causing events similar to "crystallization of the crisis through a dramatic act" and "appropriation of the appropriate social apparatus and suppression of critique" of crypto users by the government. (However, few of those beleive that "and finally restoration of a normal situation" would then occur.) The paper doesn't mention the political aspects of either of its examples (another of it's flaws). If you can think of "mass hate" as a politically-motivated inflaming of the masses fears, then the steps that it describes are remarkably similar to the expected political response to crypto-anarchy. -- Eric Murray Consulting Security Architect SecureDesign LLC http://www.securedesignllc.comPGP keyid:E03F65E5
RE: Formal apology (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
At 5:00 PM -0600 2/11/01, Aimee Farr wrote: Declan said: society has instead adopted and then accepted the Internet. It's difficult to be repulsed by something when you use it to share baby pictures with grandparents. Yes, and we are starting to regulate the hell out of it. Outside of a generic "Internet" sensecrypto is viewed as more threatening -- not simply a conduit, but a means. The next domestic terrorist kaboom! is going to have "bought to you by crypto" stenciled all over it by the US guvmint. Our demographics don't speak of technosophisticates. Agreed. (I will not say "So? We've been saying this for years. See my "Four Horseman" point of 1992-3 or so.") Those who want crypto outlawed have been trumpeting crypto uses by terrorists, pedophiles, money launderers, and other thought criminals for the past decade. Nothing very new or interesting in the latest round, save that the New Team is now attempting to lay the groundwork for New Laws. ... I agree, but you yourself stated that the average American isn't that concerned about privacy and won't purchase privacy enhancing technologies. (In a general privacy sense, I don't see a lot of "privacy reclamation." I do see a lot of notice provisions -- the functional equivalent of placing 99% of Americans in a social-adhesion contract.) I don't think it's conservative. I think it is a new and unusual threat - to the majority of Americans. Come on, Aimee, do some background reading. The "average American" is, and has long been, of two minds: -- "what have you got to hide?" and -- "none of your damned business!" Both views are present in most Americans. An observation I made here nearly a decade ago. I welcome your participation here, provided you don't rant about the list being "estrogen-deficient," but, really, these basic points are well-trod ground. Of course, you have all watched this battle for many years, so you have a longevity of insight that I don't have. Probably just the same-ole-same-ole to you, while it seems more dramatic to me. Ah, good to see you recognize the situation. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Re: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?
Dear Aimee, If you're serious about asking for advice or insight, I'd self-censor the snide comments. This group doesn't like pointy questions? To the contrary, it thrives on them. -Declan On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 12:40:22PM -0600, Aimee Farr wrote: Whatever. Somehow, I don't think this group likes pointy questions. My apologies for the intrusion, I return to you to your regularly scheduled Choatian programming, and thoughts of edible panties. [*]appearances suggest an absence of participatory estrogen in here. === Electronic Journal of Sociology (1996) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Aimee E. Farr, Esq. LAW OFFICE OF AIMEE E. FARR 5400 Bosque, Suite 675 Waco, Texas 76710-4418 office: 254.751.0030 fax: 254.751.09673
Re: Formal apology (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts,gentlemen?)
At 10:16 PM -0600 2/10/01, Aimee Farr wrote: Declan, I appreciate your bringing this matter to my attention. My sincere apologies to both you, the cypherpunk community and subscribers. My comments were tongue-in-cheek, a friendly remark regarding Choate's stealth-linkage, and his remarks toward women's undergarments, which I found humorous. My comment in regard to "pointy questions" was an attempt to give any respondents a wide berth in their replies, in recognition of the fact I could be asking the wrong questions, and was receptive of any insight. It sounds like it may be an alien. It was also a reference the number of mysterious queries that flow across the list. My reference to Gentlemen was also not meant disrespectfully, but as a subtle query. Bizarre. Nevertheless, I came across as abrasive and offended members of this forum. _Ladies_ Gentlemen, you have my apologies for both my breach of decorum and disrespect. Such was certainly not my intention. We should kill it before it multiplies. No human being speaks in such a stilted, phony way. You all have my admiration and respect, which is why I posed my questions to this distinguished group. (I am preparing to debate these issues in a private and hostile forum against experienced opposition. With a few notable exceptions, like Declan, certain viewpoints and experiences are under-represented in traditional source banks.) "Captain, my source banks indicate abnormal readings. I suggest we disconnect immediately." Excuse my long-windedness. I am trying to convey my intent and sincerity, and make a public, searchable record of my disrepute, my Declan-bitchslap and my apology; not to make excuses for my inappropriate, and inexcusable behavior. This chick can be for real. It must be another troll. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Re: Formal apology (RE: Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?)
At 1:03 AM -0500 2/11/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: At 09:49 PM 2/10/01 -0800, Tim May wrote: Nevertheless, I came across as abrasive and offended members of this forum. _Ladies_ Gentlemen, you have my apologies for both my breach of decorum and disrespect. Such was certainly not my intention. We should kill it before it multiplies. No human being speaks in such a stilted, phony way. [...] This chick can be for real. It must be another troll. Hmm. I just responded to Aimee's message, and so I may have just been trolled. But I rise to the defense of human sentience here: I don't think an AI would have bothered to ask us about such an inane sociological tract... Another theory is that Aimee actually thinks that all cypherpunks subscribers are pleasant, decent, and reasonable people who should be treated politely. I'm sure folks -- is Choate around? -- will disabuse her of this notion straightaway. On my planet, people talk to each other in a pleasant, decent, and reasonable way by actually _talking_ to them. That is, by listening, responding, making points, etc. In particular, when the arrive on new lists they spend a few days determining who is who and what is what. They don't spew stilted jargon to lists which they are new to. I still vote that we find our where it lives and kill it before it multiplies. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Crypto McCarthyism ...thoughts, gentlemen?
Gentlemen[*]: Looking for a modern revisitation of this 1996 Cyber McCarthyism paper (snips below). Something with an academic empirical focus. Eh, I'm not holding my breathso, I would equally value your thoughts on the following, in light of all the "cryptoboogeymen" popping out of closets into guv'mint press releases and hearings lately: o What do you think about [1-2]? o Contemporary parallels? (use of crypto as an aggravating factor in punishment, etc.) o Finally, how could [3] come about in the context of crypto (and other digital freedoms)? Whatever. Somehow, I don't think this group likes pointy questions. My apologies for the intrusion, I return to you to your regularly scheduled Choatian programming, and thoughts of edible panties. [*]appearances suggest an absence of participatory estrogen in here. === Electronic Journal of Sociology (1996) ISSN: 1176 7323 Cyber McCarthyism: Witch Hunts in the Living Room http://www.sociology.org/content/vol002.001/ling.html snippage [1] "This paper examines the potential for electronic communication to spark mass hate such as that seen in colonial Salem and during the McCarthy period." [2] "The elements which go into the development of mass hate include the following: 1) strains on the community through the recognition of a moral boundary crisis and identification of villains, 2) crystallizing of patterned labelling through a degradation ceremony, 3) appropriation of the social apparatus and suppression of critique mechanisms, 4) restoration of a normal situation." [3] "Finally, the fervour came under control. In both of these cases this occurred when the mass hate became a serious threat to the established power structure, members of the government in the case of colonial Salem and the Army in the case of McCarthyism." end snippage Respectfully, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Aimee E. Farr, Esq. LAW OFFICE OF AIMEE E. FARR 5400 Bosque, Suite 675 Waco, Texas 76710-4418 office: 254.751.0030 fax: 254.751.09673
Re: The Register - There are still crypto reg's...
Ray Dillinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: true multitasking was under WinNT3.51, it was about Neck-and-neck for quality with MacOS 7. And like Mr. Zakas, I'm pretty convinced that even though MacOS 10 has true multitasking, it has definitely fallen behind WinNT 4. Well the name of the operating system is MacOS X and I don't think you can say it has fallen behind NT 4 when MacOS X release isn't even out yet. I don't know what you mean by "true multitasking", which isn't a technical term, but would guess you are refering to somelike the destinction between preemptive and cooperative multitasking. In fact even Windows 95 had preemptive multitasking which is absent in MacOS 7 and wasn't added until MacOS 8.6. From an operating system angle MacOS has been traditionally poor with no real process control or no real memory management (any Mac user will tell you the "virtual memory" system is shit) being a hacked up mess dating from 1984 with kludges stuck on the side. It's superficially pretty but ugly under the hood. But MacOS X is based on BSD UNIX/Mach with a radical new userinterface and I, for one, would rather use it than NT. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] gates' law: every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
RE: RE: The Register - There are still crypto reg's...
At 8:17 PM -0500 2/1/01, Phillip H. Zakas wrote: I completely concur there's a feedback loop problem, but its Apple's fault I think. I remember when the first MACs came out you had to pay $5K just for the privilege of programming for it. What numbskulls! This was (partially) true, but only for a few months (most of which were before the Mac was released). You didn't have to pay for the privilege of programming the Mac, but you did have to pay for the Lisa that the development tools ran on. I bought my first C compiler for the Mac in June of 1984, and it didn't cost $5K. If Apple had made efforts to keep their development tools from running on the Mac, and/or had prevented others from making tools for the Mac, that might be different. As it is, I find it hard to blame the shortcomings of MacOS today on a short-term policy from late 1983 and early 1984. The intel platforms were the first to encourage development because bios ref. guides were cheap and most could afford the $100 of a pascal, c or asm compiler. Plus the intel-platform hw (ibm, compaq, etc.) was really designed to handle multitasking and simultaneous networking/communications. Apple only recently started to get the hint and improve the hardware. The BIOS ref guides were cheap (only about $40), and the compilers were $2-300, as I remember. MASM was less. Not really cheap. As for being designed for multitasking and simultaneous networking/communications, I think that you are confusing your decades. The intel-based products from 1982-86 didn't, in general, do _any_ multitasking (remember TSRs?) and as for communications, well, they did ok talking to most anything at the other end of an RS-232 line. -- -- Marshall Marshall Clow Idio Software mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
