[CREATE] Code of Conduct
Hi all, I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. A quick follow-up will be appreciated. Thanks! Louis ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
It was mentioned a while back [0]. I'm distinctly at the edge of organization myself, but I want to see LGM2014 publish a good one before I attend. Do the PSF have a sample one? If not, simplest to start with the CC0 one on GeekFeminism[1] suitably tailored, just like PyCon. A published incident handling procedure like [2] would be a good idea too. PyCon’s Code of Conduct is structured after one created by The Ada Initiative and others, available under the Creative Commons Zero license at [...][1]. [3] And add it to the Ada Initiative's list[4] when it's done to get the word out ☺ [0] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/create/2012-December/004500.html [1] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy [2] https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents/ [3] http://pyfound.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/psf-moves-to-require-code-of-conduct.html [4] http://adainitiative.org/what-we-do/conference-policies/ On 14 January 2014 19:15, Louis Desjardins louis.desjard...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. A quick follow-up will be appreciated. Thanks! Louis ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create -- Andrew Chadwick ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On Tue, 2014-01-14 at 19:45 +, Andrew Chadwick wrote: It was mentioned a while back [0]. I'm distinctly at the edge of organization myself, but I want to see LGM2014 publish a good one before I attend. It's often easier to change an organization from within... maybe there are people who are able to go to the event who can champion this? Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2014, 14:15:34 schrieb Louis Desjardins: Hi all, Hi, I guess you are talking about LGM? Just in case I added the corresponding list to the recipients, too. I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? Not that I am aware of. But I might be wrong here. I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. I don't think we should have something like that. LGM has always been an event that was meant to be fun for everyone. No formal rules, no pressure, just nice people that know how to behave and use common sense. That applies both how to act but also how to react to actions of others. Formalizing that into any sort of event law is both unnecessary and in my eyes even hurting the free and open approach of LGM. If we really need something written down I would propose this: §1 Behave §2 Use common sense when dealing with others §3 Learn from the reactions of others Just my two cents. A quick follow-up will be appreciated. Thanks! Louis Tobias signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
I support having a code of conduct. I had a read through the one at http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy and found it to be very sane, both the statement and the practical guideline on how organization should deal with matters. Having a policy does pledge organizers and volunteers to enforce it, if need be. So if we decide to adopt one, all staff should explicity state that they have read and accepted the policy. It must also be sent out to presenters and attendees. On 14 January 2014 20:45, Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com wrote: It was mentioned a while back [0]. I'm distinctly at the edge of organization myself, but I want to see LGM2014 publish a good one before I attend. Do the PSF have a sample one? If not, simplest to start with the CC0 one on GeekFeminism[1] suitably tailored, just like PyCon. A published incident handling procedure like [2] would be a good idea too. PyCon’s Code of Conduct is structured after one created by The Ada Initiative and others, available under the Creative Commons Zero license at [...][1]. [3] And add it to the Ada Initiative's list[4] when it's done to get the word out ☺ [0] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/create/2012-December/004500.html [1] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy [2] https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/harassment-incidents/ [3] http://pyfound.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/psf-moves-to-require-code-of-conduct.html [4] http://adainitiative.org/what-we-do/conference-policies/ On 14 January 2014 19:15, Louis Desjardins louis.desjard...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. A quick follow-up will be appreciated. Thanks! Louis ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create -- Andrew Chadwick ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create -- Jon Nordby - www.jonnor.com ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On 01/14/2014 03:20 PM, Jon Nordby wrote: I support having a code of conduct. I had a read through the one at http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy and found it to be very sane, both the statement and the practical guideline on how organization should deal with matters. Having a policy does pledge organizers and volunteers to enforce it, if need be. So if we decide to adopt one, all staff should explicity state that they have read and accepted the policy. It must also be sent out to presenters and attendees. Personally, I would rather see language that talks of respect (a positive term) rather than anti-harrassment (a negative term). Thus, we can be on the lookout for behavior or materials as far as how they respect others, perhaps making some positive suggestions, as opposed to searching for harrassment as if it were some kind of witch-hunt (meaning no disrespect to witches of course). Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On Tue, 2014-01-14 at 14:15 -0500, Louis Desjardins wrote: Hi all, I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. If they want to impose their rules in order to fund, then I'd suggest not to take their money. About a code of conduct, what about use your brain, failure to do so will get you kicked out after one warning, or immediately for serious misbehavior If that's not enough we're pretty much doomed. --Mitch ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
Hmm, I rather think some of the geekfeminism content material is rather extreme and make me uncomfortable. The way I see these matters on equality and etc is this: does the paragraphs make sense if you replace every instance of the word female by black person, Chinese, dwarf, Obama or Geek, or Your grandmother? or another specific group of people? Granted, chinese isn't strictly speaking a 'minority', but you don't know how many 'slitty eye' jokes I have heard in my life. (Well, females aren't minority either... If you want to argue that attendences of females are rare, I can also say that attendences of chinese and blacks or Obama are rare too) geeks are minority among the general population, too. It is worth remembering. Perhaps there should only be one guideline - treat others like how you would like to be treated. -- On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 22:01 GMT Gregory Pittman wrote: On 01/14/2014 03:20 PM, Jon Nordby wrote: I support having a code of conduct. I had a read through the one at http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy and found it to be very sane, both the statement and the practical guideline on how organization should deal with matters. Having a policy does pledge organizers and volunteers to enforce it, if need be. So if we decide to adopt one, all staff should explicity state that they have read and accepted the policy. It must also be sent out to presenters and attendees. Personally, I would rather see language that talks of respect (a positive term) rather than anti-harrassment (a negative term). Thus, we can be on the lookout for behavior or materials as far as how they respect others, perhaps making some positive suggestions, as opposed to searching for harrassment as if it were some kind of witch-hunt (meaning no disrespect to witches of course). Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2014, 22:40:51 schrieb Andrew Chadwick: [...] Codes of conduct are mostly just don't be obnoxious; listen, respect, learn written out in long form with some specifics about what's not to be tolerated. Granted, they say what shouldn't need to be said and are always written in the hope they don't have to be invoked; but they also publicly state that the organizers care about what happens to people at the conference and how welcome they feel. I don't know about you, but when I approach a group of people that have given themselves rules like that my first thought would be OMFG, do I really want to get in touch with them? Terrible things must have happened there. [...] Tobias signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
RTA this time On 14 Jan 2014 16:09, Tobias Ellinghaus h...@gmx.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 14. Januar 2014, 22:40:51 schrieb Andrew Chadwick: [...] Codes of conduct are mostly just don't be obnoxious; listen, respect, learn written out in long form with some specifics about what's not to be tolerated. Granted, they say what shouldn't need to be said and are always written in the hope they don't have to be invoked; but they also publicly state that the organizers care about what happens to people at the conference and how welcome they feel. I don't know about you, but when I approach a group of people that have given themselves rules like that my first thought would be OMFG, do I really want to get in touch with them? Terrible things must have happened there. That attitude is a fine example of white male privilege. I'm a white male, and I want to welcome people who are not like me. If they want a coc, we should give them one. If PSF wants one to give us money to find their travel to join us, all the better. I think a coc also helps mitigate the tyranny of structurelessness. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On 14 Jan 2014 15:51, Hin-Tak Leung hin...@ghostscript.com wrote: Hmm, I rather think some of the geekfeminism content material is rather extreme and make me uncomfortable. The whole site has a lot of stuff. Are you referring specifically to the coc template that is written to have bits you don't want elided? The way I see these matters on equality and etc is this: does the paragraphs make sense if you replace every instance of the word female by black person, Chinese, dwarf, Obama or Geek, or Your grandmother? or another specific group of people? Granted, chinese isn't strictly speaking a 'minority', but you don't know how many 'slitty eye' jokes I have heard in my life. (Well, females aren't minority either... If you want to argue that attendences of females are rare, I can also say that attendences of chinese and blacks or Obama are rare too) geeks are minority among the general population, too. It is worth remembering. Perhaps there should only be one guideline - treat others like how you would like to be treated. -- On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 22:01 GMT Gregory Pittman wrote: On 01/14/2014 03:20 PM, Jon Nordby wrote: I support having a code of conduct. I had a read through the one at http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy and found it to be very sane, both the statement and the practical guideline on how organization should deal with matters. Having a policy does pledge organizers and volunteers to enforce it, if need be. So if we decide to adopt one, all staff should explicity state that they have read and accepted the policy. It must also be sent out to presenters and attendees. Personally, I would rather see language that talks of respect (a positive term) rather than anti-harrassment (a negative term). Thus, we can be on the lookout for behavior or materials as far as how they respect others, perhaps making some positive suggestions, as opposed to searching for harrassment as if it were some kind of witch-hunt (meaning no disrespect to witches of course). Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] CREATE Digest, Vol 102, Issue 7
Can LGM adopt the PSF policy as a temporary measure? http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy Then at LGM we can hold a BOF meeting where results are posted with additional paper for comments. Results will be put forward to an all-hands vote with amendments welcomed from the floor. - Susan ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
Can LGM adopt the PSF policy as a temporary measure? http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy Then at LGM we can hold a BOF meeting where results are posted with additional paper for comments. Results will be put forward to an all-hands vote with amendments welcomed from the floor. - Susan ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
I just clicked on the geekfeminism url in the previous e-mail. I apologize for making quick judgements, but OTOH, if a code of conduct statement is indeed made, and a newcomer is in the position of evaluating whether to come to a conference based on that statement, that's probably the same amount of time it would take to persuade/dissuade him/her to come. Human virtues are good, I am all for fairness and equality, and patriotism, etc. So my thoughts are simple: does it make sense if you replace the word 'female' with 'black person', 'Chinese', 'dwarfs', 'your grandmother', or 'Obama'? At what point does 'fighting for quality' becomes an excuse for demanding special treatments? The love of one's country is also a very good virtue, but when you hear news (this is a real event which happened as recent as just over a year ago) - of a Chinese smashing the car windows and beating another Chinese passer-by to the point of comma and possible brain-damage, just for being behind the wheel of a *Japanese brand* car. The love of animals is a good virtue, but you also hear people getting hurt and going to hospitals from car bombs, for working in research places which keep some animals for experiments. As one other commenter said, the statement is also a reflection of the atmosphere expected, etc. I'd rather suggest one stay away from special treatments, over-compensations, and sexual/racial/political extremisms. You can't pull the 'white male privilege' card on me :-). On Wed, 15/1/14, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: On 14 Jan 2014 15:51, Hin-Tak Leung hin...@ghostscript.com wrote: Hmm, I rather think some of the geekfeminism content material is rather extreme and make me uncomfortable. The whole site has a lot of stuff. Are you referring specifically to the coc template that is written to have bits you don't want elided? The way I see these matters on equality and etc is this: does the paragraphs make sense if you replace every instance of the word female by black person, Chinese, dwarf, Obama or Geek, or Your grandmother? or another specific group of people? ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On 01/14/2014 09:14 PM, Susan Spencer wrote: Can LGM adopt the PSF policy as a temporary measure? http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy Then at LGM we can hold a BOF meeting where results are posted with additional paper for comments. Results will be put forward to an all-hands vote with amendments welcomed from the floor. What I see on this page is a not A policy, but a number of versions of policies, some short some verbose. We can hardly adopt all these versions. How about: The Libre Graphics Meeting was established as and continues to be a conference open to all those who share an interest in FOSS graphics-related software. A facet of this openness is that we expect attendees and especially presenters to show the utmost respect for all others who attend and to avoid defamatory or derogatory remarks or actions against others strictly related to their views, their lifestyle choices, where they are from, or who they are. The organizers invite anyone to inform the LGM organizers of any such disrespectful language or behavior they have experienced or witnessed, so that appropriate steps can be taken. Please edit as desired. Greg ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
On 14 Jan 2014 15:39, Michael Natterer mi...@gimp.org wrote: On Tue, 2014-01-14 at 14:15 -0500, Louis Desjardins wrote: Hi all, I am asked by PSF if we have a Code of Conduct? I am sure that at some point in time that question was raised among us but I can’t recall if we reached a consensus and if so where would that text be? PSF could consider funding us but we’d need a published Code of Conduct. If they want to impose their rules in order to fund, then I'd suggest not to take their money. About a code of conduct, what about use your brain, failure to do so will get you kicked out after one warning, or immediately for serious misbehavior If that's not enough we're pretty much doomed. I suggest we ask the people who are minorities at the event if it or any other proposal is enough. You and I, as the white male majority, can't tell. For dudes claiming this is unneccessary, do you know what it's like to have a public profile online, like you and I do, but as a female? In 2006, researchers from the University of Maryland set up a bunch of fake online accounts and then dispatched them into chat rooms. Accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7. http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/ --Mitch ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] Code of Conduct
It seems this discussion is taking place around three definition sets of heinous behaviors. The 1st set contains injustices against groups as described by Hin-tak (Hi Hin-tak! :D) The 2nd set of heinous behaviors is contained within the 1st set. It is the set of injustices committed against women. The 3rd set is within the 2nd, and is the set of injustices which are committed against women in the working place and in professional settings. LGM is a professional setting. Open source conferences historically have been places where women are ostracized, insulted and humiliated. Many, many women have gone to open source conferences only to find that they have wasted their time, money and effort. These conferences should be events where their career gains momentum, not where their career is ruined. The only reason that LGM is being asked to have a CoC is to help erradicate behaviors which have been shoving women to the back of the professional line. There are always people who constantly must put others down in order to feel good about themselves. A Code of Conduct is usually implemented to indicate that insults and injuries should be dispensed *equally* against women and men, such that there isn't a larger proportion being aimed at women's ability to program, their intelligence, their personalities, their fillintheblank, and that lewd wisecracks aren't made which by definition render women excluded from the group who laugh at the 'joke'. So when someone posts on this thread, it would help me to know which set of heinous behaviors they are addressing. PSF is clearly concerned about the third smallest set, which is the most critical in affecting the number of women in the open source community. LGM attendees have always followed the rules of polite society so well that there has been no need to mention the rules. But LGM is growing... We can't eradicate stupid ridiculous behavior, but we can at least join the effort to keep it from sweeping the XXs out of the IT gene pool. Solidarność, Susan ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
Re: [CREATE] CREATE Digest, Vol 102, Issue 7
15 янв. 2014 г. 6:13 пользователь Susan Spencer susan.spen...@gmail.com написал: Can LGM adopt the PSF policy as a temporary measure? http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy It says among other things: [Exhibitors in the expo hall, sponsor or vendor booths, or similar activities are also subject to the anti-harassment policy. In particular, exhibitors should not use sexualized images, activities, or other material. Booth staff (including volunteers) should not use sexualized clothing/uniforms/costumes, or otherwise create a sexualized environment.] Now, I've been at events where companies slightly overdo sexualized clothing of female participants up to the point where it begins to look (disgustingly) slutty. But guess what -- it's just my opinion. I have my own standards and don't expect everybody else to comply, although I reserve the right to grumble :) Making the event comfortable for extreme feminists increases the possibility of hysterical behavior at the event, and the last thing I want LGM to become famous for is some overreacting feminist (of any sex) in boring colorless unisex clothes getting riled up because of someone else having a V-neck not complying with the feminist's internal standards. In a nutshell, if you are going to adopt this, please use common sense and drop the parts of CoC that increase the possibility of someone being a self-righteous jerk. If we can't joke about the tight pants of LGM2010 anymore, we might as well focus on reaching singularity and drop all bodily hints when we talk. Alexandre ___ CREATE mailing list CREATE@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create
