Re: [CREATE] Print on demand services?

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi Julien !

I know a french one : http://www.bookelis.com/
I'm testing it for comics project, so far looks good ;)

Wish you and everyone happy holidays !

Camille - nylnook.com



2015-12-21 16:14 GMT+01:00 Julien Deswaef :

> Hey creative list.
>
> So there is the famous Lulu or CreateSpace from Amazon, but anybody
> would know other print on demand services, maybe european based, that
> would be more worker friendly than Amazon?
>
> Looking for printing an A5 guide, possibly in color, with an Isbn number
> would be nice and with an online webshop so people can order copies when
> they want.
>
> Thx.
>
> Julien
>
>
> --
> @xuv
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Re: [CREATE] Scribus 1.5.0 released

[Camille Bissuel]

Impressive !
Great work, and great move...  my congratulations to the Scribus team and
contributors
I'm downloading right now... ;)

Have a nice day !
Camille




2015-05-26 0:08 GMT+02:00 Christoph Schäfer christoph-schae...@gmx.de:

 After many years of work and more than a thousand bugfixes and feature
 implementations, the Scribus Team is pleased to announce the release of
 Scribus 1.5.0. Scribus 1.5.0 is a preview of the next stable version 1.6.0
 and has primarily been released for testing purposes, so more users can
 help us with identifying and fixing bugs. It is not stable enough for use
 in real production scenarios yet, but it can help users to become familiar
 with the new interface and the amount of new features, the number of which
 has almost doubled in comparison to the stable 1.4.x series.


 ==Most Important Technical Changes==

 - Scribus 1.5.0 uses Qt 5 as its UI toolkit. The minimum version to
 compile Scribus from source is Qt 5.4.

 - The file format has undergone significant changes and may change even
 further before the release of 1.6.0. Thus, files created or edited in 1.5.0
 cannot be opened in earlier versions of Scribus. Potential changes to the
 file format on the road to 1.6.0 notwithstanding, the Scribus Team will
 work very hard to make sure that files created by 1.5.0 and the following
 technology previews can be opened reliably in the next stable release.

 - Unfortunately we cannot offer GraphicsMagick and Open Scene Graph
 support for all platforms yet, whereas on Linux (and probably *BSD), GM and
 and OSG have become new dependencies.

 - Scribus will detect an installed version of UniConvertor and use it to
 import some of the vector formats supported by this program into Scribus.

 ==Most Important New Features==

 ===General===

 -The user interface has been overhauled and restructured in many places.
 For example, the context menu takes a lot less screen estate than before,
 and the Document Setup / Preferences dialog has been rewritten from
 scratch. The Scribus Team is aware of the remaining deficiencies and will
 work on resolving these issues before the release of 1.6.0. In some cases
 inconsistencies in the UI (e.g. the Drop Shadow tab in the Properties
 Palette) have been deliberately left in place to receive feedback from
 users as to which way they prefer.

 - Scribus can now store bitmap images within its native file format.
 Previously it was only possible to link to external images.

 - Scribus 1.5.0 now offers a Symbol or clone feature similar to Adobe
 Illustrator: If one master object (Symbol) has been modified, all of its
 copies (clones) are being modified as well.

 - With the new Weld feature, objects can be combined and moved without
 being grouped, i.e., each object remains fully editable.

 ===Text / Typography===

 Scribus 1.5.0 provides some of the most often requested text features,
 among them:

 - vertical scaling of text;

 - orphans and widows control;

 - foot and end notes;

 - text variables;

 - cross references.

 Moreover, Inline Objects in text frames are finally fully editable.

 ===Tables==

 In previous Scribus versions tables were nothing more than combined text
 frames. Scribus 1.5.0 finally introduces real tables that resemble table
 features in word processors and other DTP programs, including table styles.

 ===Graphics===

 - A new feature-rich plug-in called 'Picture Browser' enables asset
 management for graphics files by tagging them or creating graphics
 collections. Graphics files can be dragged into a Scribus document from the
 Picture Browser.

 - Scribus 1.5.0 supports all advanced gradient types available in Adobe
 Illustrator and XARA Designer, including mesh gradients.

 - One of the most-requested features -- drop shadows -- is finally
 available, albeit still experimental.

 - For documents that comprise many large (in terms of file size) bitmap
 images, a configurable image cache has been added. It can buffer image
 files to the hard drive and free RAM, so Scribus can continue to run
 smoothly.

 ===File Import / Export===

 Scribus 1.5.0 is being shipped with a huge number of new or rewritten
 import filters, although not all of them are of equal quality, and some are
 still experimental.


 DTP Files

 For the first time in its history, Scribus 1.5.0 can open / import files
 created by other DTP programs, namely: Adobe InDesign XML (IDML), Adobe
 InDesign Snippets (IDMS), Adobe PageMaker (P65, PMD), Apple iWorks PAGES,
 Microsoft Publisher (PUB), QuarkXPress Tags (XTG), VIVA Designer XML, and
 Xara Page  Layout Designer (XAR).

 Regarding DTP formats not yet supported, a workaround is sometimes to use
 an output format as an option. Accordingly, Scribus 1.5.0's PDF importer
 has been rewritten from scratch, and Scribus can now reliably open almost
 every PDF file directly with the original layout intact. For Windows users,
 Scribus 1.5.0 also comes with reliable import filters for Microsoft's PDF

Re: [CREATE] Open WG on Complex Text Layout in Scribus

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi Andreas,

and first of all, bravo ! It's a very important goal !

I will not be able to help on code side... but as a Scribus user and
teacher, my first question is : why not release Scribus in version 1.6
before to start such a big and complex integration project ?
I'm afraid users will have to wait 3 more years for a Scribus stable
release if we wait for this Harfbuzz integration... Not this is not useful
and needed, but as we already discussed at Madrid (LGM2013 !) I'd
personally hope for a more release early/release often politic in Scribus
development. Maybe moving to git as ale advocated is another way.

Thanks for you great work anyways ;)
Camille


2015-05-18 17:06 GMT+02:00 Andreas Vox a...@arcor.de:

 Hi there!

 I‘d like to invite anyone interested to join a working group on complex
 text
 layout in Scribus.

 There have been several attempts to integrate Harfbuzz into Scribus in
 order
 to improve text layout and enable non-Latin languages:
 ScribusNLS by myself, ScribusOIF by Pierre Marchand, Indic Scribus by anil,
 ScribuRTL by moceap, and probably others. None of those was integrated with
 the main development branch since they broke other stuff in Scribus (or
 just
 were not completed).

 My project for the next year or so is to finally integrate Harfbuzz in
 Scribus and provide some advanced layout options based on that. I created a
 git repository https://github.com/andreas-vox/ScribusCTL with soon-to-be
  Scribus 1.5.1svn trunk and am now looking for collaborators (especially
 authors of previous attempts). The initial roadmap looks like this:

 1. Make PDF production (and PS production and svg-export) glyph based
 instead of character based
 2. Separate StoryText from Layout
 3. Integrate Harfbuzz (OpenType library)
 4. Implement a box-oriented layout mechanism, i.e. store the layout as a
 hierarchy of boxes
 5. Integrate Fribidi (RTL library)

 I plan to re-integrate the CTL branch with 1.5.1svn after each of these
 milestones. Since 1.-2. need intimate knowledge of Scribus I’m prepared to
 do most of the work myself, but feel free to ask questions, make
 suggestions
 or send pull requests! The wiki is open.

 Best regards,
 /Andreas

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Re: [CREATE] Open WG on Complex Text Layout in Scribus

[Camille Bissuel]

Thanks for the explanation Andreas ;)

It's your decision as a team, and I understand it's not that easy, but
maybe it's time to get rid of the old mess and say the 1.5 release +
finishing properties palette rewrite (what's left ?) is 1.6 stable, and
your Complex Text Layout branch may deserve it's brand new shiny 1.7 number
;)
Sadly 1.5 as is will not reach many users.

And think to those poor Debian users, not able to enter accented characters
in canvas before version 10 (Squizzy) ! (Sorry, this troll was too
tempting :p)

Anyway, do you best !
Cheers,
Camille



2015-05-18 18:52 GMT+02:00 Andreas Vox a...@arcor.de:



 Von: Camille Bissuel [mailto:cami...@nylnook.com]
 Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2015 17:16
 An: Andreas Vox
 Cc: Create
 Betreff: Re: [CREATE] Open WG on Complex Text Layout in Scribus

 Hi Andreas,
 and first of all, bravo ! It's a very important goal !
 I will not be able to help on code side... but as a Scribus user and
 teacher, my first question is : why not release Scribus in version 1.6
 before to start such a big and complex integration project ?
 I'm afraid users will have to wait 3 more years for a Scribus stable
 release if we wait for this Harfbuzz integration... Not this is not useful
 and needed, but as we already discussed at Madrid (LGM2013 !) I'd
 personally hope for a more release early/release often politic in Scribus
 development. Maybe moving to git as ale advocated is another way.

 Thanks for you great work anyways ;)
 Camille


 Hi Camille,

 I'm afraid that won't work. Most of the stuff I like to do relies on large
 changes to the code base and it's just no fun to work with the old mess.
 Personally, I won't get involved with the properties palette rewrite --
 that would be the other chunk of work that's on our todo list. This way
 I hope the CTL team and the other devs can work in parallel. In fact, in
 theory it would be possible to release 1.6 after any of the milestones I
 outlined,
 so we don't necessarily have to wait on the CTL stuff.

 BTW, a lot of the smaller bugs will be fixed in the 1.5.0 release, last
 not least the possibility to enter accented characters in canvas.

 /Andreas


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Re: [CREATE] an interesting development?

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

at least, it can allow Blender's people to study the code... maybe it may
help the Cycle rendering engine.

So that's quite a good news ;)

Have a nice day,
Camille

*Nylnook*

*Illustration et formation*1480 route de Corréo
05 400 La Roche-des-Arnauds
04 88 03 57 51
06 75 25 90 39
http://www.nylnook.com http://nylnook.com




2014-06-03 19:29 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Lafuente r...@manufacturaindependente.org:

 The source doesn't appear to be available, and the restrictive uses
 (personal and noncommercial use only) make this very non-free software.

 On 06/03/2014 05:37 PM, Gregory Pittman wrote:
  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27677712
 
  I'm not sure if there is any interface with Blender and RenderMan...
 
  Greg
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Re: [CREATE] an interesting development?

[Camille Bissuel]

Ok, I read too quickly...

I was thinking to OpenSubdiv for example
http://www.blendernation.com/2014/05/12/pixars-opensubdiv-coming-soon-to-blender/
https://github.com/PixarAnimationStudios/OpenSubdiv

but it's apache licensed, not the same.

Here is the official annoucement :
http://renderman.pixar.com/view/25946
and the EULA :
http://renderman.pixar.com/view/ncr-eula

Which say :
3. *No Modifications or Reverse Compilation*. END USER MAY NOT MODIFY,
TRANSLATE, DISASSEMBLE, REVERSE ENGINEER, DECOMPILE OR CREATE DERIVATIVE
WORKS BASED ON THE PIXAR SOFTWARE OR DOCUMENTATION OR ANY COPY, IN WHOLE OR
IN PART.

So, no code, no reverse engenering. False alert ...


Have a nice day nevertheless...

Camille




*Nylnook*

*Illustration et formation*1480 route de Corréo
05 400 La Roche-des-Arnauds
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http://www.nylnook.com http://nylnook.com




2014-06-04 11:22 GMT+02:00 Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com:

 Hi,

 On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Camille Bissuel cami...@nylnook.com
 wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  at least, it can allow Blender's people to study the code... maybe it may
  help the Cycle rendering engine.

 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the linked article
 writes about source code anywhere. The way I understood it, they just
 provide a license free-of-charge for non-commercial usage. In other
 words they would just provide the binary, not any source code.

 Also even though they might provide source code, this is always
 dangerous usage of non-FLOSS source code. If a piece of code in a
 FLOSS program ends up too close from a proprietary code, you might end
 up sued. And that's not even speaking about software patents on
 algorithms (which are not valid in Europe, but people tend to be
 careful anyway)...

 Jehan

  So that's quite a good news ;)
 
  Have a nice day,
  Camille
 
  Nylnook
  Illustration et formation
  1480 route de Corréo
  05 400 La Roche-des-Arnauds
  04 88 03 57 51
  06 75 25 90 39
  http://www.nylnook.com
 
 
 
 
  2014-06-03 19:29 GMT+02:00 Ricardo Lafuente 
 r...@manufacturaindependente.org:
 
  The source doesn't appear to be available, and the restrictive uses
  (personal and noncommercial use only) make this very non-free software.
 
  On 06/03/2014 05:37 PM, Gregory Pittman wrote:
   http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27677712
  
   I'm not sure if there is any interface with Blender and RenderMan...
  
   Greg
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Re: [CREATE] The CREATE wiki

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

I'm moving this conversation on the libregraphicsmeeting list for the sake
of organization ;)
So, for the wiki re-birth task, as decided during the LGM-organiser meet,
ale and I are working on it, but I've just landed home yesterday, and ale
will not be able to work on it before tomorrow ;p

To simplify infrastructure and usage, we'd like to have everything on the
same system for the LGM website. As the website is currently done with
Wordpress, and it look like a viable solution for the future, we propose to
gather old wiki pages to Wordpress, creating a documentation section, and
add simple wiki features to thoses pages with a Wordpress plugin like this
one : http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/pencil-wiki/

Is this solution look ok for everyone ? Do you prefer a real wiki
solution, which one (Mediawiki ?), and why ?

In any case, we will need a few days to move things, and the first step is
to gain full admin access to the website for us.
In the meantime, please use the Wayback machine, as pippin said earlier
(thanks again pippin) :
http://web.archive.org/web/20110820014642/http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Main_Page

we keep you updated anyway !
Camille




2013/4/15 Louis Desjardins louis.desjard...@gmail.com

 Hi,

 Thanks, Øyvind, for retrieving this info!

 Can someone take the task of putting all these pages on a new wiki (say,
 LGM wiki)?

 There has been *lots* of work to gather the info present on the Create
 wiki at the time and this was put there after lengthy discussions on IRC
 and on the Mailing list. The guidelines certainly need to be revisited from
 time to time but the core info is there and should inspire the decision
 making process. We need to avoid spontaneous generation or loss of
 memory! :-)

 Infos will be updated after we have our own wiki.

 Anybody?

 Thanks!

 Louis


 2013/4/13 Øyvind Kolås pip...@gimp.org

  The easiest way to find the content, which used to be in the create /
 LGM wiki is to surf via the wayback machine :)


 http://web.archive.org/web/20110820232948/http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/Conference_2011

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  -- William Gibson
 http://pippin.gimp.org/http://ffii.org/

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Re: [CREATE] Stop Motion T-Shirts

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi Baydon,

personally I recommend Toonloop : http://toonloop.com/, very efficient
and funny to use ;)
for Frame rate control, see advanced option : http://toonloop.com/?q=advanced

Cheers,
Camille B.


2011/9/5 manuel quiñones ma...@laptop.org

 2011/9/4 Braydon ro...@braydon.com:
  What are some of the best software for doing stop motion animation with
  frame rate control?  I've used FFMPEG via the command line to make
  stop-motion video from still images, however each image represents a one
  frame one-to-one only

 Well there is Stopmotion application [0] that allows you to change the
 frame rate and export to video.  But I only used it for simple
 animations, I don't know if it scales for making a real project.

 However, if you are using ffmpeg, there are options for controlling
 the frame rate of the input and output files:

 ffmpeg -r 12 -i input.m2v -r 24 output.avi

 Cheers,

 [0] http://stopmotion.bjoernen.com/

 
  Also libre graphics compadres! I have gotten silk-screened a bunch of shirts
  ( http://braydon.com/hacker-t-shirt/ ) and I ship them. Although they are
  made totally offline, which is far more comfortable and free medium to work
  for me right now. I've been using proprietary software since 15 until after
  I graduated design school in 2006, and after a year or so, and feeling
  totally locked up and unfree with computers, have started to use *all* libre
  graphics software, picking up Python, and digging deeper into JavaScript,
  PHP, and just having a great time.
 
  I wish to make it to an LGM one day, I'm stuck in Los Angeles.
 
  -Braydon
 
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Re: [CREATE] Create resources stuff

[Camille Bissuel]

Count me in for graphicskiosk.org ;)

cheers,
Camille

2011/6/19 a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch

 hi

  So maybe a definition in terms of *purpose*.

 after a short brainstorming with myself, i've reserved -- and present you
 as a candidate -- the graphicskiosk.org

 a place where you go and pick your graphics resources...

 afaict, easy to understand in most european languages...


 i have nothing against better names!


 ciao
 a.l.e
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Re: [CREATE] Access to LGM website

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Hi Louis,

I just wake up, reading your mail not fully awake, and nothing
personal, but honestly, I don't understand your reaction... You
certainly have a lot of pressure to organize LGM2011, but please
keep calm...
a.l.e had work days and nights to make the actual website happen...
Alex and I have help as far as we can, but with a lot of
professional constraints getting us away.

A website is not a 2 days job. usually a month is a very minimum.
a.l.e had work during two years to make existing website what it is
today. 
In the last months, we have struggle with disappearing text editor
caused by a CSS mistake, feed spams, bugs in anwiki registration
forbidding new users, a FreeBSD server with missing libraries
(personally I never used FreeBSD before !), IE sort-of-compatibilty,
and many other technical stuff.

But maybe the hardest part was to listen every complain here, saying
one and the opposite (new colors ! no foolish, no new colors !), and
trying to make progress despite this. The last episode is your ask
for a Drupal website, which is simply unrealistic.

So, please help us build on existing tools instead of wasting time
in complains and unrealistic alternatives.
Maybe a.l.e could spend time finishing forms on the actual website
instead of trying to redo everything in Drupal on your demand.
Maybe I can add that for every urgent point, we have build simple
solution in between to achieve complex ones ( did you notice the
"Propose your talk" banner on the website for example ? )

What are you missing now ?
only finished forms ?
please simply list it, and we will have the job done.

Can we have some help on the work, and kindness for the existing
tool ?

Thanks in advance,
Camille

 


Le 22/03/2011 03:59, Louis Desjardins a écrit :
2011/3/18 Louis Desjardins louis.desjard...@gmail.com
  

  Hi Guys,
  
  We need to improve the access to the LGM website.
  
  I have a limited access to the LGM website at the moment but
  this access is broken. I have currently no way to edit the
  text in the website. At 9 weeks before LGM, this is wrong.
  
  We need to be able to put stuff on the website at just about
  any time, or reset access when it's broken, or whatever ! :)
  
  As we get closer to the LGM, it becomes clearly critical that
  we need to let in at least one or two knowledgeable person(s)
  who could handle the code when one of us is not available.
  
  A few people have access to the server and they seem to be all
  in the same time zone or very busy elsewhere. We need more
  flexibility.
  
  Can we address this quickly — I mean now?


  Hi,
  
  It's been days now.
  
  It’s taking too long to solve simple issues.
  
  I have lost confidence in the actual web team for LGM.
  
  I now ask that they pull off and let the keys to others.
  
  We need things done and we need them done with no further
  delays.
  
  I am sorry for all the noise on this list but direct emails
  have had no effect so here we are now.
  
  I am ready to take over. All I need now is the full access to
  the server.
  
  Thanks !
  
  Louis
  
   


  Thanks.
  
  Louis
  
  
  
  

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Re: [CREATE] Pledgie - Paypal : issue solved !

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Hi Louis and all,

a.l.e, Alex and me had worked on the spread/donate badge on the last
few weeks, and it is ready, but a technical problem (missing
library) stop us making it hosted on the LGM web site actually. We
asked mrdocs some help and it should be solved quickly.

As soon as it is ready, project and website in the Create list will
be able to easily integrate a donate badge on their website.

We will keep you in touch,

cheers,
Camille



Le 21/03/2011 01:38, Louis Desjardins a crit:
Hi all,
  
  The Pledgie / Paypal issue is now behind us. The system is back on
  track. People can continue donate.
  
  Please spread the word and make that as viral as it can be !
  
  Here is the status so far :
  We've raised $423.00, but still need $11,577.00!
  
  Cheers !
  
  Louis
  
  -- 
  Louis Desjardins
  libregraphicsmeeting.org
  +1 514 994 9351 (Cell)
  +1 514 934 1353 ext. 121
  

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Re: [CREATE] Access to LGM website

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Hi all,

I'm certainly not an authority in this field, but willing to change
our tools (SVN, mercurial, Drupal or whatever), a few weeks before
the event is not really a bright idea in my point of view.

We already spent weeks doing the actual LGM2011 website, and even if
it's not prefect, it do the job. In the best scenario , trying to
restart everything again now will only conduct to a beta quality
website two weeks before the event.

Furthermore, using a revision control system is not ideal because it
increase complexity, and forbid quick testing in the production
environment (it's easy to make a typo mistake in a _javascript_ file
for example). Drupal is a good CMS, but we will need time to set it
up fully, so it will be wiser to use it for next year.

Said simply, as already said by a number fo people here, let's focus
on next tasks instead of re-doing the same ones again and again.

Cheers,
Camille


Le 20/03/2011 22:32, a.l.e a crit:

  ciao yuval,


  
On March 18, 2011 07:57:25 pm a.l.e wrote:


  the content is managed in a wiki form and is stored in a database.



the source control architecture would not back up the database
itself, only the code to generate it and access it.  however you
don't need SSH to access a wiki/database from the html front end?

 


  the access to the server is only need to modify the forms and the
templates.



for forms and templates it would work.  i have set up recently a
mercurial over https configuration.  it boils down to adding users in
the .htaccess file, no SSH access required (which I understand is
what you are wary about?).

 


  personally, i haven't yet used mercurial yet (nor git; i still
normally use svn, which is not ok to publish a website).



Why do you state that SVN is not OK to publish a website?  Hugin
moved to Mercurial only a year ago.  Prior to that it was in SVN.
The website too. And it worked well.

  
  
it's not really practical to put a svn check out on a webserver: it's polluted with .svn directories...


  

  let's see how we will manage the site next year... i think that we
will give up with anwiki. mercurial could then be a way to manage
it!



I don't know the site's architecture.  I do know that before giving
up a tool I would want to have a comprehensive look at what works and
what not, and make sure that the change of tool is not just for the
sake of changing tool.

  
  
we are changing now for drupal.

the new site will be up as soon as possible.

i hope we won't have to change again next year!

not sure if it's worth to put a drupal instance in a revision system... we will see.

ciao
a.l.e
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[CREATE] LGM2011 Donate! badge to put on your website

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

ok it's ready ! Please copy and paste this code to your website to 
spread the world, and invite peoples to donate to LGM :



a style=border-style:none 
href=http://pledgie.com/campaigns/14610;img 
src=http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2011/donate/pledgie_banner.png;/a



you can also propose it to the world :

textarea name=snippet rows=3 cols=55a 
style=border-style:none href=http://pledgie.com/campaigns/14610;img 
src=http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/2011/donate/pledgie_banner.png;/a/textarea



My best regards,
Camille (yagraph)
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Re: [CREATE] LGM2011: Pledgie, call for papers, marketing push

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Sure ;)

a.l.e and Alex wanted to keep it simple, but we certainly can change
colors. Have you got a preferred one ? :p
I've started to work on additional SVG backgrounds too, and hope to
push them quickly.

I have to go this morning, but will be working on the website this
afternoon (pledgie button + SVG backgounds at least).
Please send me the pledgie campaign link as soon as it is ready ! 

See you soon
Camille


Le 11/03/2011 06:17, j...@rejon.org a écrit :

  Cool, can we pick some new colors for this year?

https://launchpad.net/create-project/+milestone/1.0

Jon

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org wrote:

  
Hi all,

With help of Alex Leray, I've started a new pledgie button for this year,
but it's not yet finished (we will need the pledgie campain to start to
actually make it work).
The website need some more improvments too, but it's functionnal now.

Please let us know ;)

Camille (yagraph)


Le 10/03/2011 02:14, Schrijver a écrit :

Hey Jon,

Share  feel your concern

This is the status,

the possibility to submit talks via Wiki: check
a video to go with the pledgie: check
the lgm 2011 website: check

pledgie: Jon I think you’ve got that setup right?
press release: brad philips should have a rough draft done in a few hours
if you want to help read and critique, give him a shout

Then, if all’s well, tomorrow you can all help by mailing/faxing the press
release to proper parties,
and sharing the pledgie!

E

Op 10 mrt 2011, om 00:11 heeft Jon Nordby het volgende geschreven:

Hey guys,
2 months to LGM2011 now!
It looks like the March 1th deadline for the pledgie and call for
papers has slipped? What is going on, do we have everything under
control? What are the issues blocking these items, how can people
help?

If we expect to get people (especially from Europe) to LGM that are
not our core projects/people (they already know about LGM) to come,
announcements need to go our pretty fast now. Most people prefer to
plan conferences well in advance.

--
Jon Nordby - www.jonnor.com
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Re: [CREATE] LGM2011: Pledgie, call for papers, marketing push

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Ok, I will see with alex !

Le 11/03/2011 09:24, a.l.e a crit:

  hi


  
a.l.e and Alex wanted to keep it simple, but we certainly can change
colors. Have you got a preferred one ? :p I've started to work on
additional SVG backgrounds too, and hope to push them quickly.

I have to go this morning, but will be working on the website this
afternoon (pledgie button + SVG backgounds at least). Please send me
the pledgie campaign link as soon as it is ready !

  
  
alex was working on some tweaking of the design.

since the artwork is it's creation, i'd suggest you to get in touch with him before changing it on the LGM site.


ciao
a.l.e
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Re: [CREATE] the lgm2011 colors are the same as 2010

[Camille Bissuel]

Sorry for that ... but I never thought that HTML could be unaccessible 
(tags do not help semantic ?), and that's simply the default for emails 
in most mail client today...




To return the subject, I was only proposing hands after Jon's ask for. 
My intend was to make small colors changes to give the website a 2011 
flavor, not to rebrand LGM or Create, with Alex approval.


So, after reactions, I drop it out, and will only propose news SVG 
backgrounds to Alex.


Best regards,
Camille



Le 11/03/2011 14:35, Yuval Levy a écrit :

On March 11, 2011 03:31:34 AM Camille Bissuel wrote:

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
html


could you please send plain text messages and not html messages? html and its
formatting are unaccessible.  I can't read what you write.

Yuv



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Re: [CREATE] Sozi : animated presentations with Inkscape

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Hi all,

I've just finished a first translation of the Sozi Wiki :
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=en:welcome

It may contain some mistakes, but do not hesitate to suggest
corrections.
Hope it will be useful for no-french speakers !

And don't worry, this mail conclude my annoucement about Sozi !

See you,
yagraph


Le 27/10/2010 14:10, Camille Bissuel a écrit :

  
  To complete my previous e-mail :
  Here is the GitHub repository, with sources and install text in
  engliqh :
  http://gist.github.com/senshu/Sozi
  
  See you,
  yagraph
  
  Le 27/10/2010 14:01, Camille Bissuel a écrit :
  


Sorry, I honnestly tought that it was translated too !
maybe I can discuss that with the autor, and translate it...

Waiting for that, maybe you can "Google Translate" it, or
something similar.

Keep you in touch
yagraph

Le 27/10/2010 12:25, Olivier BERTEN a écrit :

  Well... it is... in french...
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=fr:installer

Le 27/10/10 12:20, Alexandre Prokoudine a écrit :

  
On 10/26/10, Camille Bissuel wrote:


  Hi all,

just a few words to annouce that a french dev (Guillaume Savaton) has just
released an interesting extension for Inkscape called Sozi, wich allow to
create simply animated presentation with svg and _javascript_ :
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php


Sadly, no :) Release = available to download :)

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [CREATE] Sozi : animated presentations with Inkscape

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Sorry, I honnestly tought that it was translated too !
maybe I can discuss that with the autor, and translate it...

Waiting for that, maybe you can "Google Translate" it, or something
similar.

Keep you in touch
yagraph

Le 27/10/2010 12:25, Olivier BERTEN a crit:

  Well... it is... in french...
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=fr:installer

Le 27/10/10 12:20, Alexandre Prokoudine a crit :

  
On 10/26/10, Camille Bissuel wrote:


  Hi all,

just a few words to annouce that a french dev (Guillaume Savaton) has just
released an interesting extension for Inkscape called Sozi, wich allow to
create simply animated presentation with svg and _javascript_ :
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php


Sadly, no :) Release = available to download :)

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [CREATE] Sozi : animated presentations with Inkscape

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
To complete my previous e-mail :
Here is the GitHub repository, with sources and install text in
engliqh :
http://gist.github.com/senshu/Sozi

See you,
yagraph

Le 27/10/2010 14:01, Camille Bissuel a crit:

  
  
  Sorry, I honnestly tought that it was translated too !
  maybe I can discuss that with the autor, and translate it...
  
  Waiting for that, maybe you can "Google Translate" it, or
  something similar.
  
  Keep you in touch
  yagraph
  
  Le 27/10/2010 12:25, Olivier BERTEN a crit:
  
Well... it is... in french...
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=fr:installer

Le 27/10/10 12:20, Alexandre Prokoudine a crit :


  On 10/26/10, Camille Bissuel wrote:

  
Hi all,

just a few words to annouce that a french dev (Guillaume Savaton) has just
released an interesting extension for Inkscape called Sozi, wich allow to
create simply animated presentation with svg and _javascript_ :
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php

  
  Sadly, no :) Release = available to download :)

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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[CREATE] Sozi : animated presentations with Inkscape

[Camille Bissuel]

  
  
Hi all,

just a few words to annouce that a french dev (Guillaume Savaton)
has just released an interesting extension for Inkscape called Sozi,
wich allow to create simply animated presentation with svg and
_javascript_ :
http://sozi.baierouge.fr/wiki/doku.php 

It's really interesting, and from my point of view it's the first
step toward SVG animation in Inkscape ;)

cheers,
yagraph
  

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Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

Here is an arborescence/hierarchy view of the new website project :
http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/arborescence.png

It's made with the idea that any content should not be more than 3 click
away (not so easy for directories) and that any menu should not contain more
than 5-7 items.
And the corresponding SVG file here : http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/

I hope it will allow us to discuss content more.
Another subject is what can be put on this website to be professional (for
example, I assume that no proprietary software will be put in the software
directory, that planet is not suited for articles on cryptography...), and
which rules are used.

Cheers
--yagraph



2010/8/19 Gregory Pittman gpitt...@iglou.com

  I have to say I like the more beefy look of Camille's work. Also the use
 of vibrant colors, yet keeping the text parts highly legible.

 Greg


 On 08/18/2010 07:51 PM, Robert Martinez wrote:

 Hello,

 allow me to hop in here: some time ago I made a redesegin of the create
 page, but it didn't go online because neither jon nor I had the time to copy
 some stuff around on the server.
 (it is just the current markup with new css + +images + @fontface)

   here is the html: http://mray.de/create/test.html
   here is a screenshot: http://mray.de/create/Screenshot.jpg

 It misses quite some elements regarding the new content, but in terms of a
 new look I consider it to be a relevant option.

 Supposed new stuff is added - what do you think?


 Cheers,
 Robert

 On 08/18/2010 06:22 PM, Camille Bissuel wrote:

 Hi all,

 Let's try a design suicide by posting some sketchs on a creative peoples
 mailing list ;)

 So, I've started to sketch this new website :
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-news.png
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-peoples.png
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-projects.png

 It's very hard to draw something meaningful for all projects, so I keep on
 abstract backgrounds (neutrals), and black and white titles and icons to let
 the eye focus on content.

 If you feel to test it yourself or improve it, corresponding SVG (made in
 Inkscape 0.47) files are here : http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/
 Backgrounds are generated thought 
 ImageSpacehttp://imagespace.sourceforge.net/.
 Icons are a personal rework of the tango icon set. Fonts are Bitstream
 Charter and DejaVu Sans.

 Index page is supposed to be the News or About page.

 Stay one problem : I know how to transform thoses sketches in Web pages in
 Wordpress, but I'm not sure if I can achieve it with Anwiki or Mediawiki.

 Please comment on content and design.
 If needed to do not flood this mailing list, we may go on this discussion
 with a smaller set of volunteer peoples.



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Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

Let's try a design suicide by posting some sketchs on a creative peoples
mailing list ;)

So, I've started to sketch this new website :
http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-news.png
http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-peoples.png
http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/draft-web-create-projects.png

It's very hard to draw something meaningful for all projects, so I keep on
abstract backgrounds (neutrals), and black and white titles and icons to let
the eye focus on content.

If you feel to test it yourself or improve it, corresponding SVG (made in
Inkscape 0.47) files are here : http://www.yagraph.org/images/create/
Backgrounds are generated thought
ImageSpacehttp://imagespace.sourceforge.net/.
Icons are a personal rework of the tango icon set. Fonts are Bitstream
Charter and DejaVu Sans.

Index page is supposed to be the News or About page.

Stay one problem : I know how to transform thoses sketches in Web pages in
Wordpress, but I'm not sure if I can achieve it with Anwiki or Mediawiki.

Please comment on content and design.
If needed to do not flood this mailing list, we may go on this discussion
with a smaller set of volunteer peoples.

Cheers,
-- yagraph
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Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

to Cyrille Berger :

*While lgw does not cover the LGA purpose, it matches the lga website. To be
honest, from what I have understood, lga = lgw + create.*
--- In my view, lga  lgw + create, to another public (users) and other
aims (demonstrate + explain +teach ...). LGW is excellent for news and
Create is excellent for collaboration between projects, but there are others
topics to be covered.
Can I mess up the create wiki and change it's aim without starting a flame
war ? If I can, I do agree with you that there is no need for another
website.


*If people thinks create does not works very well, I fail to see how having
an association is
going to magically solve any problem. Especially, considering that what
create
lack is mostly of animation.
Also, creating an association with no revenue seems to be a lot of
bureaucratic work. In many countries, the main point of registering an
association is to get access to a bank account.*
--- to have a bank account in the future, you have to start by creating an
association, not the opposite way. It will allow us to start the project and
start to share some means. Furthermore, according to a.l.e, creating an
association in Switzerland is really simple and there is no bureaucratic
work.


*Finally, I want to encourage any effort in promoting libre creative
software,
but I add my voices in the there is already too many separated efforts,
lets
join force instead of creating new.*
--- Totally agree with that. What I'm doing wrong to let you think that LGA
is not about joining forces ?

For the Libre graphics magazine, I do agree too, but it will have a far much
lesser diffusion than a website. I don't understand why peoples agree on the
magazine, and not on the website, despite they share parts on the same
objectives (promoting and demonstrating libre graphics tools).
Am I stupid ?

I feel that the best way to convince is to start working on it.
So, let's go.

Have a nice day,
--yagraph


2010/8/16 a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch

 hi ginger,

   So we could create a magazine (available as PDF, and printed to
   people who want a paper edition, actually someone already started
   such a project, I think
   ?), or a booklet that could be send as commercial to companies, a
   book (either tutorial, or a story book with illustration created
   with our software).
   All done with free software. Then you can show the results to
   professional, and impress them. When I was a student, I
   participated in editing a student weekly newspaper, we managed to
   print in four colors using a two cylinders rotary printer, the
   seller was so surprised by the result that you could get
   with the machine, that he sent a few samples of our journal to the
   direction
   in Japan. This little story shows that if you do interesting
   things, you will
   get attention.
   There is already an impressive pool of artists using our software,
   lets pull
   them together to create material that display the power of our
   tools.
  
 
  A great big +1 on the magazine. Just before LGM, Ricardo, Ana, Femke,
  a.l.e. and I pulled together Libre Graphics Magazine #0. Since then,
  I've been thinking seriously (as I plan workshops and talks for
  artists and design students) about the value of doing such a magazine
  more frequently. I think it would be a great vehicle around which to
  build some user community, as well as a nice, professional public
  show of what F/LOSS graphics software can do.
 
  So I'm game to pick up where we left off on the magazine, and willing
  to add some editorial weight to the effort. If anyone else is
  interested in working on it too, all the better.

 i'd like to produce a second number while being at http://froscomp.org .
 (mid september)

 the idea is to have the content mostly produced in advanced and having
 a small crew doing the magazine live at our booth.

 i'm not sure i will have founds to print it, so it may just be a PDF to
 put on the web.

 what do you think about it?

 could you image to have an active role even if not personally present?
 (no, i certainly won't have the budget to fly you to zurich! :-)


 ciao
 a.l.e
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Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Ok, well done Cyrille and Louis, you convinced me.
I though it was easier to start from the ground, and that I wasn't allowed
to modify existing tools (I don't know why, maybe because I'm new in the
place).

I do agree too than we need to build on existing tools, and that Gnome
foundation is the best way to handle money today.
Despite that, an association may be still interesting for branding, to say
to peoples : yes, we do exist as a moral entity and we are organized.

Can we restructure the http://create.freedesktop.org/ website main page to
add more content and some visual improvements ?

   - News (planet for projects and gallery - actual planet + one more for
   gallery -)
   - Projects (Presentations for Software and tools, Standards, Events,
   Teaching certification)
   - Peoples (Developers, Professional Artists, Teachers, Users)
   - Resources (Directory for Documentation, How-tos, Tutorials, Glossary,
   Gallery)
   - About (association ?, website)

Do we forget about libre-graphics.org, simply redirecting to Create ?
Can I submit some sketch, to who (this mailing ?) ?
Can I have some admin access to this main page to start working on it ?
Why is there content like this unrelated
onehttp://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/08/12/cryptprotect-broken/,
or the Boudewijn's holidays on the Create planet today, a mistake?
Alexandre, do you agree to move some of your contents, like the FAQs for the
main application or your software web links, on the same website to make
things more coherent ?

How can we work on this together ?

Please, let me know.
--yagraph



2010/8/16 Cyrille Berger cber...@cberger.net

 On Monday 16 August 2010, Louis Desjardins wrote:
  2010/8/16 Louis Desjardins louis.desjard...@gmail.com
   2010/8/16 Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
   For the Libre graphics magazine, I do agree too, but it will have a
 far
   much lesser diffusion than a website. I don't understand why peoples
   agree on the magazine, and not on the website, despite they share
 parts
   on the same objectives (promoting and demonstrating libre graphics
   tools). Am I stupid ?
  
   In the eyes of many people on this list we are already into an
   association. We belong to this community, we work together, we
   communicate a lot, we have means to do this. This is what most people
   would call an association !
  
  (...)
 
  Let’s not reinvent the wheel but use it instead. From the rolling stones
 we
  have made wheels, and from wheels we have made gears and pulleys. I see
  many of the ideas here as gears or pulleys. From gears, we have created
  motors and watches and so many things ! With pulleys you can lift heavy
  weights with so little energy...

 Yes and it is exactly why the magazine idea get so much traction, it is a
 new
 wheel. Lets create new wheel, with a magazine, contests, gallery, etc. Or
 improve old wheels. Lets create more content for lgw, have a more
 structured
 wiki on create.fd.o.

 --
 Cyrille Berger
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[CREATE] Fwd: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Sorry, I send it to Ricardo only ...

-- Forwarded message --
From: Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
Date: 2010/8/13
Subject: Re: [CREATE] [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website
To: ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org


That's why I've started the discussion with the content before the technique
:


content is basically a portal :

   - News (planet for projects and gallery)
   - Projects (Presentations for Software and tools, Standards, Events,
   Teaching certification)
   - Peoples (Developers, Professional Artists, Teachers, Users)
   - Resources (Directory for Documentation, How-tos, Tutorials, Glossary,
   Gallery)
   - About (LGA, website)

But that's right no one commented on it yet. Please do so.

Thanks for the support too ;)
--yagraph


2010/8/13 ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org

On 08/13/2010 01:56 PM, Schrijver wrote:

 But I repeat i.m.h.o. it is more important to start with the actual work
 of what should be *on* the website,


 +1!

 Btw, Jon's mention of painting the bikeshed is spot-on, imho. The
 following website


 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING

 is a great and quick write-up on a wonderful metaphor that very often needs
 to be brought up.

 Go LG[AF]!
 :r




 Take care!

 Eric


 Op 13 aug 2010, om 14:40 heeft Camille Bissuel het volgende geschreven:

  I completely agree with a.l.e ...
 We don't want to recreate the wheel, we want to build a motor.
 It was the whole point of my BoF session at LGM 2010. If you want to
 listen arguments, please read my presentation :
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/LGM/what-about-a-lgf.svg (to look at in
 Firefox)

 So... some peoples like me and a.l.e fell the necessity of such a
 project, and we will do it.

 And, we have to start somewhere to make this realidad happen. A website
 is a good starting point.

 @a.l.e : Maybe we can contribute to Anwiki... we don't have a very short
 deadline.
 We have to investigate more on Aïki too. Does someone can do the same
 nice points / less nice points list for Aïki ?

 Thanks,
 -- yagraph





 2010/8/13 j...@rejon.orgj...@rejon.org
 If it ain't broke, then don't fix it...is my position. I'm going to
 focus on realidad.

 Jon

 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:16 PM, a.l.eale.comp...@xox.ch  wrote:

 hi jon,

  This whole thread...what's the addage about painting a bikeshed? It
 underscores my point about distractions from accomplishing a mission.
 Are we here to make sites or a Foundation, both often covers for
 trying to raise money to raise money, or are we trying to get
 creative apps to work together better and build a flourishing
 creative community?

 Also, I will point out the irony that all of our communication
 happens on the create list and wiki.

 What's the point again? Or rather where is the concrete realidad to
 this thread?

 Ok, im going to go back to getting LGM day at Foss.asia lined up, LGM
 book, and then get sponsors for both...


 i can only give my point of view:

 - it's about an association not a foundation

 - this association should be a tool to promote the free software
  graphics tools in education, art and graphic industry

 - this association should take over the promotion coordination work
  among free software projects in the graphics field

 - this association should make sure that a LGM happens

 - this association should make sure that some sort of certification is
  developed which applies for the free software graphics tools.

 i have the feeling that CREATE, in its current form, can't manage most
 of those tasks.


 btw, i'm more than happy if we can have a foundation, maybe covering a
 broader field than the graphics software, that we can work with / rely
 upon.
 but, in my views, rightt now, we don't have a financial problem to focus
 on: we have to find out how to get the professional world to use our
 software. once they are REALLY using our applications, we will have to
 worry, how to collect some money from them!


 and, as yuval pointed, the biggest problem with CREATE is its name/url:

 - i'm not happy with having a sub-domain for it

 - we can't have create.org

 - it's too close to a suite which already leads the largest parts of
  the market we want to take over.

 (well, in an ideal world i would love to have the CREATE name... it's
 a wonderful name. much better than the one used for that suite. and much
 better than LG, too. but it's not available.)


 now, what's the point of starting by creating a website? no idea, but i
 guess that we have to start from somewhere and a website is a bit like
 a club house: a nice place where you feel welcome.
 we are  discussing about this since a couple of years and it's nice to
 see the work start!


 just my 2.5c.

 ciao

 a.l.e




 p.s.: i was not aware that CREATE had activities outside of the
 graphics field. nice to know!
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Re: [CREATE] [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

to Alexandre :

Why FSF is needed ?
Why Mozilla foundation is needed ?
Can't you see the great benefit of the Blender foundation for Blender ?
Have you an idea of the huge work they do ?

It's not about code, it's about peoples.
It's not only about market share, it's in a first place to become more
coherent ourselves.

I'm tired to answer that on this thread. We just need to talk about the
website here. I don't want to justufy the project for each mail I answer...

See you
-- yagraph




2010/8/13 Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org

 Sorry, I send it to Ricardo only ...

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
 Date: 2010/8/13
 Subject: Re: [CREATE] [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website
 To: ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org


 That's why I've started the discussion with the content before the
 technique :


 content is basically a portal :

- News (planet for projects and gallery)
- Projects (Presentations for Software and tools, Standards, Events,
Teaching certification)
- Peoples (Developers, Professional Artists, Teachers, Users)
- Resources (Directory for Documentation, How-tos, Tutorials, Glossary,
Gallery)
- About (LGA, website)

 But that's right no one commented on it yet. Please do so.

 Thanks for the support too ;)
 --yagraph


 2010/8/13 ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org

 On 08/13/2010 01:56 PM, Schrijver wrote:

 But I repeat i.m.h.o. it is more important to start with the actual work
 of what should be *on* the website,


 +1!

 Btw, Jon's mention of painting the bikeshed is spot-on, imho. The
 following website


 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING

 is a great and quick write-up on a wonderful metaphor that very often
 needs to be brought up.

 Go LG[AF]!
 :r




 Take care!

 Eric


 Op 13 aug 2010, om 14:40 heeft Camille Bissuel het volgende geschreven:

  I completely agree with a.l.e ...
 We don't want to recreate the wheel, we want to build a motor.
 It was the whole point of my BoF session at LGM 2010. If you want to
 listen arguments, please read my presentation :
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/LGM/what-about-a-lgf.svg (to look at in
 Firefox)

 So... some peoples like me and a.l.e fell the necessity of such a
 project, and we will do it.

 And, we have to start somewhere to make this realidad happen. A
 website is a good starting point.

 @a.l.e : Maybe we can contribute to Anwiki... we don't have a very short
 deadline.
 We have to investigate more on Aïki too. Does someone can do the same
 nice points / less nice points list for Aïki ?

 Thanks,
 -- yagraph





 2010/8/13 j...@rejon.orgj...@rejon.org
 If it ain't broke, then don't fix it...is my position. I'm going to
 focus on realidad.

 Jon

 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:16 PM, a.l.eale.comp...@xox.ch  wrote:

 hi jon,

  This whole thread...what's the addage about painting a bikeshed? It
 underscores my point about distractions from accomplishing a mission.
 Are we here to make sites or a Foundation, both often covers for
 trying to raise money to raise money, or are we trying to get
 creative apps to work together better and build a flourishing
 creative community?

 Also, I will point out the irony that all of our communication
 happens on the create list and wiki.

 What's the point again? Or rather where is the concrete realidad to
 this thread?

 Ok, im going to go back to getting LGM day at Foss.asia lined up, LGM
 book, and then get sponsors for both...


 i can only give my point of view:

 - it's about an association not a foundation

 - this association should be a tool to promote the free software
  graphics tools in education, art and graphic industry

 - this association should take over the promotion coordination work
  among free software projects in the graphics field

 - this association should make sure that a LGM happens

 - this association should make sure that some sort of certification is
  developed which applies for the free software graphics tools.

 i have the feeling that CREATE, in its current form, can't manage most
 of those tasks.


 btw, i'm more than happy if we can have a foundation, maybe covering a
 broader field than the graphics software, that we can work with / rely
 upon.
 but, in my views, rightt now, we don't have a financial problem to
 focus
 on: we have to find out how to get the professional world to use our
 software. once they are REALLY using our applications, we will have to
 worry, how to collect some money from them!


 and, as yuval pointed, the biggest problem with CREATE is its name/url:

 - i'm not happy with having a sub-domain for it

 - we can't have create.org

 - it's too close to a suite which already leads the largest parts of
  the market we want to take over.

 (well, in an ideal world i would love to have the CREATE name... it's
 a wonderful name. much better than the one used for that suite. and
 much
 better than LG, too. but it's

Re: [CREATE] [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

!!!


I do not think that anyone wants to kill anyone project.
The whole purpose of the LGA proposition is collaboration between projects.
It's not a ring to rule them all neither.


I've talked about the project at LGM, and we agreed to lauch the project
with all peoples at the BoF including Louis and Cédric !
It's the same peoples and the same objective, no one is diverting away,
please !

How many time should I try to explain ?

--yagraph


2010/8/13 j...@rejon.org j...@rejon.org

 Ok, all I see right now is something to divert funding away from LGM.
 Does anyone want that? Is that right?

 Jon



 On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
 wrote:
  to Alexandre :
 
  Why FSF is needed ?
  Why Mozilla foundation is needed ?
  Can't you see the great benefit of the Blender foundation for Blender ?
  Have you an idea of the huge work they do ?
 
  It's not about code, it's about peoples.
  It's not only about market share, it's in a first place to become more
  coherent ourselves.
 
  I'm tired to answer that on this thread. We just need to talk about the
  website here. I don't want to justufy the project for each mail I
 answer...
 
  See you
  -- yagraph
 
 
 
 
  2010/8/13 Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
 
  Sorry, I send it to Ricardo only ...
 
  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
  Date: 2010/8/13
  Subject: Re: [CREATE] [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website
  To: ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org
 
 
  That's why I've started the discussion with the content before the
  technique :
 
  content is basically a portal :
 
  News (planet for projects and gallery)
  Projects (Presentations for Software and tools, Standards, Events,
  Teaching certification)
  Peoples (Developers, Professional Artists, Teachers, Users)
  Resources (Directory for Documentation, How-tos, Tutorials, Glossary,
  Gallery)
  About (LGA, website)
 
  But that's right no one commented on it yet. Please do so.
 
  Thanks for the support too ;)
  --yagraph
 
 
  2010/8/13 ricardo lafuente boll...@sollec.org
 
  On 08/13/2010 01:56 PM, Schrijver wrote:
 
  But I repeat i.m.h.o. it is more important to start with the actual
 work
  of what should be *on* the website,
 
  +1!
 
  Btw, Jon's mention of painting the bikeshed is spot-on, imho. The
  following website
 
 
 
 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING
 
  is a great and quick write-up on a wonderful metaphor that very often
  needs to be brought up.
 
  Go LG[AF]!
  :r
 
 
 
  Take care!
 
  Eric
 
 
  Op 13 aug 2010, om 14:40 heeft Camille Bissuel het volgende
 geschreven:
 
  I completely agree with a.l.e ...
  We don't want to recreate the wheel, we want to build a motor.
  It was the whole point of my BoF session at LGM 2010. If you want to
  listen arguments, please read my presentation :
  http://www.yagraph.org/images/LGM/what-about-a-lgf.svg (to look at
 in
  Firefox)
 
  So... some peoples like me and a.l.e fell the necessity of such a
  project, and we will do it.
 
  And, we have to start somewhere to make this realidad happen. A
  website is a good starting point.
 
  @a.l.e : Maybe we can contribute to Anwiki... we don't have a very
  short deadline.
  We have to investigate more on Aïki too. Does someone can do the same
  nice points / less nice points list for Aïki ?
 
  Thanks,
  -- yagraph
 
 
 
 
 
  2010/8/13 j...@rejon.orgj...@rejon.org
  If it ain't broke, then don't fix it...is my position. I'm going to
  focus on realidad.
 
  Jon
 
  On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 3:16 PM, a.l.eale.comp...@xox.ch  wrote:
 
  hi jon,
 
  This whole thread...what's the addage about painting a bikeshed? It
  underscores my point about distractions from accomplishing a
 mission.
  Are we here to make sites or a Foundation, both often covers for
  trying to raise money to raise money, or are we trying to get
  creative apps to work together better and build a flourishing
  creative community?
 
  Also, I will point out the irony that all of our communication
  happens on the create list and wiki.
 
  What's the point again? Or rather where is the concrete realidad to
  this thread?
 
  Ok, im going to go back to getting LGM day at Foss.asia lined up,
 LGM
  book, and then get sponsors for both...
 
  i can only give my point of view:
 
  - it's about an association not a foundation
 
  - this association should be a tool to promote the free software
   graphics tools in education, art and graphic industry
 
  - this association should take over the promotion coordination work
   among free software projects in the graphics field
 
  - this association should make sure that a LGM happens
 
  - this association should make sure that some sort of certification
 is
   developed which applies for the free software graphics tools.
 
  i have the feeling that CREATE, in its current form, can't manage
 most
  of those tasks.
 
 
  btw, i'm more than happy

Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Oo, I didn't even know graphicsplanet.org ...
So, ok, It's one more planet...
I don't know what to do. Maybe we can just get the graphicsplanet.org feed
and display it.
As a maintainer, Alexandre, do you think graphicsplanet.org can evolve to
work with libre-graphics.org ?

Thanks Jon for the Mediawiki RSS plugin.
So mediawiki is a serious candidate. So on, to add content, a wiki is an
easier tool for most contributors.
I don't want to keep the wiki visual style, but we can do like the F-spot
website.

So, Aïki, Mediawiki, Wordpress ?

Thanks for your comments.
--yagraph




2010/8/8 j...@rejon.org j...@rejon.org

 On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org
 wrote:
  That's not a bad idea, but Is Mediawiki have RSS support (diffusion +
  aggregation ) ?
  It does not seem to...
 
 You can bend mediawiki to do many things like this with plugins :)

 http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=WikiArticleFeeds_Extension

 and there are many more :)

 Jon



 --
 Jon Phillips
 http://rejon.org/
 http://fabricatorz.com/
 http://status.net/
 http://rejon.status.net + skype: kidproto
 +1.415.830.3884 (sf/global)
 +86.187.1003.9974 (china)

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Re: [CREATE] Fwd: Re: [LGF-LGA] Ok, let's start with a website

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

I do not think that anyone wants to kill anyone project.
The whole purpose of the LGA proposition is collaboration between projects.
It's not a ring to rule them all neither.

Let's think of it from an user point of view. What are these tools and what
can I do with them ? How can I have information on current projects and
relations between them ? How can I found a teacher ? How can I support a
project or donate ?
We can't answer theses questions without a portal website. As a
professional, it took me almost 1 year of daily survey to know all current
interesting websites.

The Create wiki is very useful for internal work. But it's not for users.
Other websites, including http://libregraphicsworld.org, aren't aimed to
address the LGA purpose, they are too specific. I have time to build such a
website, so it's not a waste of time for other projects.

One more time, it's not meant to trust others website content. it's a
portal, a link directory, an aggregation platform... content is out.

Aim is to say to users, institution, professionals that yes, we can
collaborate at an international level, yes we share ideas about our tools,
yes we have viable solutions, and yes, we can do some support and receive
founds in a decentralized way.
I'm tired to be considered unprofessional because I use free softwares.

So, please stop fire, and start collaboration.

Jon, I'm also interested to know more on internationalization in the Aïki
framework, it sounds good, and I'm thinking seriously to use it.
Thanks for all your comments by the way.

--yagraph


2010/8/8 a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch

 hi robert,

feel free to feel offended.
  
 
  this is not acceptable.
  jon clearly adressed the way you proposed to kill one of his
  projects. this sounded somewhat disrespectful in my ears, too.

 i don't really want to have a lengthy discussion on this topic.

 i have never proposed to kill any of jon's projects. period.

 if you look at my mail i never ever mention the term project.

 i was only talking about websites and domain names.

 if anybody is attached to the url create.freedesktop.org and to the
 current form of that website, yes, i've stepped on his/her toes.
 sorry, but i really have the feeling that we have to get more user friendly
 on that regard.
 (btw, i have nothing against a create.libre-graphics.org... but i think one
 of the jon sorrows was that we have too many websites and urls.)

 if you have the feeling that i was discussing about the wrong topics, i'll
 step out of the discussion. no problem.

 if you have the feeling that i should use a less direct language, i'll do
 it.

 but, please, don't cite me for things i have not said (and i've already
 pointed out that i didn't meant to say it).


 ciao
 a.l.e
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Re: [CREATE] Decision for LGM 2011 venue — Action r equired

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

First, thanks to Louis for the great work, the wiki pages are a great
synthesis !
ok, I'm late, but after reading every page related to this LGM 2011 venue,
here is my opinion :

- why do we need a LGM in 2011?
because we (LG peoples) should meet every year or so, and most of people
will not come every year, so it's a good compromise.

- what YOU expect from the LGM 2011?
meet great peoples, see each project growing... have fun... like this year !

- what is the LGM for YOU?
a great place to meet and to make Libre graphics projects a reality...


LGM Board :
Good idea, but I think this is related to the LG Association (or Fundation)
project... why not build it in the same move ?
Another thing witch is not clear to me : is there some election process
planned, or maybe it will come in a second time ?

2 year process :
Totally agree

Location proposals :
I trust Hong Phuc Dang as an organizer, and it would be fair to go in Asia
after her great talk and 5 year in Europe and North America. The only bad
point is plane travel for most of us, but it's the same for people from
Asia, Africa, South America or Oceania since 5 years. Cheap prices and free
of charge hosting are somehow balancing the expensive travel cost.
Brasil is interesting for me mainly because of his president Lula and his
FOSS support. Maybe in 2012 ?
I see Montreal as a trusty fallback for 2011 or 2012 if other locations
can't welcome us.


LGA project :
I've been busy on past weeks so I didn't make the discussion going on, and
the mailing list was busy with the LGM 2011 debate, but we need to keep
going by starting to discuss a website.


Have a nice day,
-- yagraph
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Re: [CREATE] freegraphicdesigner.org

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi,

As far as we have gone in the discussion about the LGF project, it sounds
that we will be using libre graphics instead of free graphic.
so freegraphicdesigner.org do not seem really useful, and could be
eventually replaced by http:///designer.libre-graphics.org or something like
that.

But ok, we have to move the discussion on the website subject !
I do that quickly.

Cheers,
-- yagraph



2010/6/9 Hiran Venugopalan hira...@gmail.com

 On 9 June 2010 12:35, a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch wrote:
  dear creators,
 
  i'm the indifferent owner of the domain freegraphicdesigner.org and
 don't really want to renew it.
 

 we can have a forum in that.
 a wordpress mu or something based designers social network :)

 --
 Hiran Venugopalan
 Usability / IxD Geek, Ubiqurio
 IRC : HFactor | Phone : 09496346709 | W : http://hiran.in
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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Some goals, aims or objectives !

[Camille Bissuel]

So everyone agree with all this goals ?
I don't believe it !

There's another point to discuss too : when to start each goals ?
Louis have suggested to start a network and to wait to be ready to set up
any founding, which sound wise.

Please comment !
-- yagraph



2010/6/2 Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org

 Hi everyone,

 Going on the subject of the LGF projects, and now we assume to keep
 Libre Graphics as a basis name, let's go on the discussion on another
 topic : goals of such an organization.

 As far as I can summarize, here is what have been said so far :

 ---
 Camile Bissuel (aka yagraph - myself), the intent I had starting the BoF
 session :
  Simply said, we have two main goals (to discuss) :
 - connect and create a network of LG projects and peoples (not only devs,
 but also designers, teachers, and users)
 - as an horizon line, we want to found and get money for the Libre Graphics
 projects via a non-profit organization 

 I can add that I've through to such an organization to professionalize LG
 projects, both as a teacher, as a designer and as an user in collaboration
 with developpers. If you're interested, please get a look to slides I had
 prepared (but not used) :
 http://www.yagraph.org/images/LGM/what-about-a-lgf.svg (to look at in
 Firefox) .

 ---
 Andreas Vox :
  2 Aim
 The aim of the organization is to connect people in the Libre Graphics
 world. Members have been organizing the Libre Graphics Meeting for the last
 five years. The organization will carry the spirit of the LGM to an
 organizational level by providing a central point of contact for developers,
 artists and donators. It will do so in
 - organizing Libre Graphics meetings
 - providing a website that links to all Endorsed Projects and promotes the
 idea of Libre Graphics
 - uses and protects the terms Libre Graphics and Libre Graphics Meeting
 as a trademark.
 - brings together developers with potential donators/funders
 - provides certificates for teachers and students of Libre Graphics
 software (needs clarification)
 - provides a marketplace for artists and teachers of Libre Graphics
 - furthers communications between users and developers of Libre Graphics
 software 


 ---

 IMO, Here are things we may do with such an organization :

 - be considered professional
 - certificate teaching
 - connect peoples and professions (developers, designers, teachers, users,
 ...) through a web network
 - promote and spread libre graphics projects
 - pay devs with donation and incomes from teaching or content or membership
 to develop Libre graphics software (things like GSOC or maybe even full time
 jobs)
 - fund projects similar to the 3 open movies the Blender Foundation have
 successfully organized (Krita have a project of comic for example)
 - have company wide discussion (for example with Adobe to discuss
 standards, or with W3C to discuss drafts...)
 - organize future LG Meetings ;)
 - ...

 In summary : do things we can't do in an informal network.
 Louis Desjardin has also said that we can't do everything right now or
 quickly, and that's right, but let's think to it as an horizon line in a
 near or distant future.


 Please freely give you opinion, feelings, and so on !
 If a consensus is obtained, we will formalize that on the create wiki, and
 start to build a charter as Andreas Vox have already started.

 Cheers,
 -- yagraph






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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...

[Camille Bissuel]

IMO, if we think of it in the long term, we could be organized as the
Mozilla group :
- an association in Europe certified tax-exempt
- a foundation in U.S.A certified tax-exempt

but, that's not so straightforward, and we will certainly ask for help for
other organization in the build time.
As Louis said : Let's start with the help of Gnome foundation, and slowly
build our Libre graphics Organization step by step.

But we have to discuss this steps.

Another thing is disturbing for me (with Hin-Tak Leung intervention): what
can we do for peoples in Asia, Oceania or Africa ?

-- yagraph


2010/6/4 Hin-Tak Leung hin...@ghostscript.com

 Regarding surrogate organization - as well as the next LGM location. One
 thing I was debating with myself during the last hours of LGM, seeing as so
 many of you are keen on having LGM on Vietnam and Montreal, etc whether to
 make the suggestion and I didn't want to sploit the enthusiasm of others.

 The Linux Foundation have some contacts, experiences etc for organizing
 small specialist conferences as satellite conferences to the regular large
 ones arround the world, which essentially means you share and off-load some
 of the burden of organization logistics but otherwise it is a small
 conferences which just happens to share some of the facilities and happens
 at the same time of a big one. A few of the recent kernel-wireless
 mini-summits and open-printing summits are like that - but the communities
 and attendence numbers of either are quite small (about 20-40 people in
 either I think, rather than the 80+ in LGM - I have a different hat
 sometimes so I get invitations to both) compared to a main one which is in
 the 300+ attendence region.

 So having a surrogate under the Linux Foundation unbrella is a possibility.
 OTOH, freedesktop (xorg) probably also have something of that sort?

 --- On Fri, 4/6/10, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote:

  On 3 June 2010 22:27, a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch
  wrote:
   in countries like germany, france and switzerland it
  is very easy to set up an association.
 
  Right - same as UK.
 
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the UK you'd still need to,
  after
  registering, write and agree on a constitution that defines
  how
  elections are done, run an election to set up a committee
  with a
  chair, membership secretary, treasurer, and perhaps other
  roles. Then
  the treasurer needs to open a bank account and file a tax
  return (or
  pay an accountant to file one) - and all the members and
  the public
  need to trust that the committee will use the money
  legitimately and
  fairly.
 
  Using a surrogate organisation means the administration of
  the bank
  account, filing a tax return, and the constitutional
  decisions are all
  taken care of by a recognised entity that the members and
  the public
  can trust to do things legitimately and fairly.
 
  So no matter what the goals of the LGA are, I suggest
  starting out
  with a surrogate organisation and later founding our own
  entity when
  we really need to :-)
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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Some goals, aims or objectives !

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi Greg,
I do agree with your view, and I do know that I won't achieve anything alone
or even with a small group of interested people...

So, ok, let's discuss it... To active contributors in LG projects :
- Do you find this LGA project useful, and why ?
- How would it be useful for you on a daily basis ?
- Said simply : Do you need a LGA, or is it a waste of time and energy in
your point of view ?

I'm convinced for myself (IMO, it's useful in a range of situations), but as
Greg said, we don't want to find ourselves int he desert with an empty
tank...

Please go on and comment !
-- yagraph






2010/6/5 Gregory Pittman gpitt...@iglou.com

 On 06/05/2010 04:19 AM, Camille Bissuel wrote:

 So everyone agree with all this goals ?
 I don't believe it !

 There's another point to discuss too : when to start each goals ?
 Louis have suggested to start a network and to wait to be ready to set up
 any founding, which sound wise.

 I don't have any objections to these various proposals, but as we say in
 the US, it's hard to be against something that sounds like Mom and apple
 pie.

 Having been involved with a local group that began a nonprofit organization
 (this one for increasing awareness of stroke), we rather painstaking went
 through such a process of creating a charter, filing the appropriate papers,
 and eventually cranking it through the governmental approval process, and
 then found ourselves with a real organization having some really good ideas
 about what we wanted to do in the form of where we saw ourselves in the
 future, recognized as a source for various information, awash with the money
 that would surely come flowing in, which we would carefully dole out for a
 variety of worthy reasons.

 But then real reality hits, when you realize that all of this discussion,
 planning, and final agreements about the charter and so forth are the
 easiest part.

 As I mentioned in the BOF, we should also begin thinking about how it is
 that LGA justifies its existence. First and foremost, do we know that the
 major and minor projects think LGA is good for them? How? What would they
 see an LGA accomplishing that they can't do themselves? How are they willing
 to support LGA? Would LGA perhaps be some kind of threat to them? It's
 problematic if they might only see LGA as a source of money, but otherwise
 want to be left alone.

 And what would users appreciate about LGA? Especially considering that
 users are a large silent unseen body of people out there, this could be
 difficult to ascertain.

 Finally, what about donors? Donors who are constantly approached for
 donations, who must choose where to spread out those donations that they do
 make. There will be a certain amount of no-brainer donating that will come
 from many sources in small amounts, but clearly we have to seek out and
 satisfy the potential large donors, not just because of the amount of money
 they might donate, but more importantly the magnifying effect this would
 have. There is a reputation and attention that comes from getting a major
 donation from a Google, or who knows, maybe even an Oracle or Adobe. Smaller
 donors use these as cues that someone with the resources has vetted this
 organization and found it worthy. Likewise, getting smaller donations from
 well-respected open source foundations can be very valuable.

 You may think that this is too early to think about these issues, but if
 you don't you may find yourselves out in the desert with an empty tank
 before you realize it.


 Greg

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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...

[Camille Bissuel]

Sorry Dave, I missed some important details ;)

You seem to know the subject... Can you be a little more explicit, in which
organization is doing what ?
I don't really get the difference between SFLC, SFI, SFC... it's seems all
the same... Can you say us which one can we use for what ?

Thanks a lot !
-- yagraph


2010/6/3 Dave Neary dne...@maemo.org

 Hi,

 Camille Bissuel wrote:
  On another hand, hera are already existing organizations witch from we
  may ask help (advices, founding management, paper work help...) :
 
  - Gnome foundation (already hosting LGM plegdie and accounting)
  - KDE foundation (had helped Krita project for example)
  - http://www.oneclickor.gs http://www.oneclickor.gs/ (suggestion from
  Dave Crossland, they help him for the Open Font Library)
  - Software Freedom Law Center (suggestion from Dave Neary)
  - we can inspire in some way from the Mozilla organization (see
  http://www.mozilla.org/about/organizations.html)
  - we can surely expect some help from FSF or Blender Foundation.
 
  Sorry if I missed something or someone, please correct any mistake.
 
  Please submit your suggestions, feelings, ideas, and so on !

 Thanks Camille! Great email.

 I also suggested (although rather obtusely) Software in the Public
 Interest (SPI), the guys behind Debian donations  cash management.

 And it is the Software Freedome Conservancy, which is not the same thing
 as the SFLC, who I think is an appropriate umbrella organisation.

 Thanks!
 Dave.

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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...

[Camille Bissuel]

Thanks a lot, that's quite more explicit !

--yagraph

2010/6/3 Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com

 On 3 June 2010 19:12, Camille Bissuel cbiss...@yagraph.org wrote:
 
  You seem to know the subject... Can you be a little more explicit, in
 which
  organization is doing what ?
  I don't really get the difference between SFLC, SFI, SFC... it's seems
 all
  the same... Can you say us which one can we use for what ?

 www.softwarefreedom.org

 The Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) is a non-profit lawyer shop in
 New York City. It was started 5 years ago by Eben Moglen, the FSF's
 longtime lawyer. They represent _big_ free software projects directly,
 like BusyBox and the GNU project, which have their own legal entities.
 This gives independence but costs time and money.

 SFLC isn't relevant to the LGA because LGA is too small.

 conservancy.softwarefreedom.org

 SFLC set up another organisation, The Software Freedom Conservancy
 (SFC) in 2006. The SFLC and SFC are legally separate organisations,
 but the same people run them both.

 SFC is a non-profit holdings group for _small_ free software
 projects that are too small for setting up their own legal entities.
 Inkscape, for example. It means a group can take donations and spend
 them with no administrative overhead costs, and small projects don't
 need the independence possible with their own legal entity. Its based
 in the USA.

 www.spi-inc.org

 Software in the Public Interest (SPI) was set up in 1997 to fund
 Debian and other free software projects. It works very similarly to
 the SFC. Its based in the USA but has partner organisations across the
 world, making donations from outside the USA possible without PayPal
 or Google CheckOut - www.spi-inc.org/donations#money

 HTH

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[CREATE] [LGF] Some goals, aims or objectives !

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi everyone,

Going on the subject of the LGF projects, and now we assume to keep Libre
Graphics as a basis name, let's go on the discussion on another topic :
goals of such an organization.

As far as I can summarize, here is what have been said so far :

---
Camile Bissuel (aka yagraph - myself), the intent I had starting the BoF
session :
 Simply said, we have two main goals (to discuss) :
- connect and create a network of LG projects and peoples (not only devs,
but also designers, teachers, and users)
- as an horizon line, we want to found and get money for the Libre Graphics
projects via a non-profit organization 

I can add that I've through to such an organization to professionalize LG
projects, both as a teacher, as a designer and as an user in collaboration
with developpers. If you're interested, please get a look to slides I had
prepared (but not used) :
http://www.yagraph.org/images/LGM/what-about-a-lgf.svg (to look at in
Firefox) .

---
Andreas Vox :
 2 Aim
The aim of the organization is to connect people in the Libre Graphics
world. Members have been organizing the Libre Graphics Meeting for the last
five years. The organization will carry the spirit of the LGM to an
organizational level by providing a central point of contact for developers,
artists and donators. It will do so in
- organizing Libre Graphics meetings
- providing a website that links to all Endorsed Projects and promotes the
idea of Libre Graphics
- uses and protects the terms Libre Graphics and Libre Graphics Meeting
as a trademark.
- brings together developers with potential donators/funders
- provides certificates for teachers and students of Libre Graphics software
(needs clarification)
- provides a marketplace for artists and teachers of Libre Graphics
- furthers communications between users and developers of Libre Graphics
software 


---

IMO, Here are things we may do with such an organization :

- be considered professional
- certificate teaching
- connect peoples and professions (developers, designers, teachers, users,
...) through a web network
- promote and spread libre graphics projects
- pay devs with donation and incomes from teaching or content or membership
to develop Libre graphics software (things like GSOC or maybe even full time
jobs)
- fund projects similar to the 3 open movies the Blender Foundation have
successfully organized (Krita have a project of comic for example)
- have company wide discussion (for example with Adobe to discuss standards,
or with W3C to discuss drafts...)
- organize future LG Meetings ;)
- ...

In summary : do things we can't do in an informal network.
Louis Desjardin has also said that we can't do everything right now or
quickly, and that's right, but let's think to it as an horizon line in a
near or distant future.


Please freely give you opinion, feelings, and so on !
If a consensus is obtained, we will formalize that on the create wiki, and
start to build a charter as Andreas Vox have already started.

Cheers,
-- yagraph
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[CREATE] [LGF] Get a status : association, foundation ...

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

we now have to discuss a status : is the LGF project should be an
association, a foundation, a network, an informal group ?


Here are the most important thoughts we have collected so far :

---
Dave Neary in response to a.l.e :

 i still don't know what the SFLC is, but i guess it's a US american
 company which would do a similar work for, us as the gnome foundation is
 currently doing for the LGM.

SFLC = Software Freedom Law Center, a non-profit, funded by donations
from various corporate sponsors, to provide free legal services to free
software projects. Founded by Eben Moglen, they currently have 3 lawyers
working for them (Karen Sandler, Aaron Williamson and another I don't
recall right now) and Bradley Kuhn, formerly of the FSF, who also works
for them but isn't a lawyer. Brandley also donates some of his time on
another SFLC project, the Software Freedome Conservancy, which provides
fiscal agency, financial and administrative services to (you guessed it)
free software projects. Including, as Jon said, Inkscape.

 what i'm still missing are the advantages against just creating a very
 simple association and using an external organization (like the gnome
 foundation) to manage our funds.

Create a simple association implies a certain number of things in my
mind: By-laws  statutes, a membership structure, a governing
jurisdiction, a board of directors, tax returns, elections... basically,
a formal structure, registered with some government somewhere, governed
by the rules of that government (and if you want to give tax deductible
relief to sponsors, or you want to not pay taxes on donations yourself,
you have a lot of paperwork to do to justify your organisation).

By putting yourself under an existing umbrella organisation, you avoid
that - informal elections or nominations of the people who will deal
with the umbrella folks would be useful, but you don't need to have
legally water-tight statutes  by-laws, AGMs, treasurer reports
submitted to the IRS every year, etc. You're getting all the benefits
and none of the down-side.

Plus, in general, the only reason to create an association for a free
software project is a bank account, some kind of co-ordinated
marketing/branding campaign, and elected representatives. You don't need
an association to do the 2nd  3rd.

 or would the SFLC be the full politically correct partner boudwijn was
 suggesting we shold look for?

The Software Freedom Conservancy probably would be (the SFLC is slightly
different, but very much related).

* Whatever the name is:
** Ask the Software Freedom Conservancy (affiliated with the SFLC) to be
a fiscal agent and provide basic non-profit services for the group
(address, bank account, ability to accept tax deductible donations in US)
* Move the Create project under the ambit of the Create Foundation or
whatever
* Get benefits of a non-profit without the paperwork and administrative
overhead
* Can be put into motion quickly and works super well 


---
a.l.e :
 basically, a foundation is an organization managing founds with a moral
goal; an association is just a group  of physical or moral persons following
a common goal. this is what i recall from the law courses i followed several
years ago. 


--- Femke Snelting :
*Association*
- The Libre Graphics community is a network.

We should not want a Foundation.

The work of the Libre Graphics community brings together very different
goals, ideas, flavors, methods and perspectives. The energy buzz of LGM is
about seeing work that none of us could have imagined on our own. At LGM we
discuss standards and workflows for example. Not because we want to
constrain creativity, but because we want to participate in interesting
interfaces between developers, artists and designers.

Now LGM is growing away from an informal network, we cannot avoid imagining
some form of organisation that supports Libre Graphics or the Libre Graphics
Meeting long term. But however it plays out, we need to take care of the
diversity that drives this community.

A foundation exists to define and converge; an association can support a
network. I think it is a mistake to use this term for Libre Graphics, even
(or even more so) the organization is legally set up as an association.

---


On another hand, hera are already existing organizations witch from we may
ask help (advices, founding management, paper work help...) :

- Gnome foundation (already hosting LGM plegdie and accounting)
- KDE foundation (had helped Krita project for example)
- http://www.oneclickor.gs (suggestion from Dave Crossland, they help him
for the Open Font Library)
- Software Freedom Law Center (suggestion from Dave Neary)
- we can inspire in some way from the Mozilla organization (see
http://www.mozilla.org/about/organizations.html)
- we can surely expect some help from FSF or Blender Foundation.



Sorry if I missed something or someone, please correct any mistake.

Please submit your suggestions, feelings, ideas, and so on !

Re: [CREATE] [LGF] A name !

[Camille Bissuel]

I like Reclaim your tools too... but as Jon said, it can be a slogan !
Create is vague, that's right, but it's quite interesting and we already
have the Create wiki, so it seem continued.

I don't think we can say everything with the name, or maybe we can try an
acronym (ok, it's GNU inspired :p) :
C.R.E.A.T.E. = Create and REclaim grAphics Tools freEdom

for those inspired, you can try with that :
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/advanced.html

For the brainstorming, it seems to work quite well as is, if peoples who
aren't interested in the subject don't feel too spamed.
We can organyse a live discussion... but I don't know if we can do better,
and personally I won't be very available until next week.

If you feel so, we can start another sujbect like [LGF] Goals, to discuss
the purpose of the organization, it may clarify things and help to found a
name.

Keep going !
-- yagraph



2010/6/1 Jon Phillips j...@rejon.org

 How about Create Foundation: Make Your Tools.


 RE is dead.

 On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Robert Martinez m...@mray.de wrote:
  On 06/01/2010 01:00 PM, a.l.e wrote:
 
  one last input from me -- for today -- on that matter: what are your
  (plural) feeling about using reclaimyourtools.org?
 
 
  That sounds like a good slogan/motto/claim in combination with create
 as a
  name for the whole thing. at least in my ears:
 
  Create - reclaim your tools
 
 
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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] A name !

[Camille Bissuel]

Whoosh, sounds there is a lot of interest in this discussion !

In my opinion, we shouldn't try to embrace everything neither to be too
specific... Think about the projects and people at LGM this year, and try to
reflect that : we aren't hostile to musicians, but that's not the domain
where we are fluent. On the other side, we aren't only artists nor
designers.

It's aim to be a cross project for libre drawings, 3D, webdesign, print,
automating tools like Phatch, typography, scripting, etc... it will join
different peoples (developers, designers and artists, and also teachers) in
a common interest. The name mustn't exclude part of it, neither try to
embrace the whole world ...

maybe we can think to something more similar to reclaim your tools like
the free brush foundation (Ok, it's stupid, but you get the idea).

Hard exercise, but let's keep going the brain storming !




2010/5/31 Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de

 On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 14:36 +0200, John Haltiwanger wrote:

  Graphics doesn't include type.. And artists includes everyone.. So
  where do we find the best fit?

 I see no reason to exclude type from graphics and for all I know it is
 not commonly done. In other words: graphics does include type, graphic
 design does include typography, although a specialist in either might be
 vary to call himself a specialist in both.


 --
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 thorwil's design for free software:
 http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] A name !

[Camille Bissuel]

Just some through on top too :
- we can name it foundation even in the real status is an association :
the name will reflect our project to *found* libre graphics projects.
- I like Create too... as John said, maybe we can raise found if we feel so,
and it will be a potential rallying cry.
- we will surely ask some help from the Gnome foundation anyway... at least
their expertise !

Keep going...


2010/5/31 a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch

 hi jon,

  here's an idea, take create and/or create foundation or whatever its
 called to sflc software conservancy (eben moglen's law firm) my friend
 bradley kuhn runs, and inkscape is a part of, and move create project,
 whatever libregraphics projects exist, and then that gives the
 benefits of a foundation without all the loads of work involved with
 creating.

 I can put that into motion quick, and it works super well!



 i don't 100% get your proposal... can we have a bulletted version of it?
 :-)



 some thoughts on top of it:

 - at the bof there was some sort of agreement to build an association
 instead of a foundation (it was more a preference than a final decision)

 - in that case, we would ask the gnome foundation if it agrees to manage
 our finances as it does for the LGM (we may ask another foundation, too)

 - it may not be easy to get create.org



 yes, create is a great name, but we need the domain name attached to it!


 ciao
 a.l.e

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Re: [CREATE] [LGF] A name !

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi,

Honestly, that's look very interesting, and we will need to discuss status,
help or not from other organization, bank account, but can we keep on the
subject please ? ;p
Actually, we were discussing the name ;)

Is everyone agree with Create Foundation (create seems good, and it look
likes we want to have an organization managing founds with a moral goal) ?

Thanks for you enthusiasm ;)
-- yagraph


2010/5/31 Dave Neary dne...@free.fr

 Hi,

 a.l.e wrote:
  Dave Neary wrote:
  Smiley indicates humour or irony... but I'll answer this straight :)
 
  in my case, i tried to express through a smiley the fact that the
  question was meant in a positive, friendly way and not in a provocative
  way.  i guess the one of yours was a more ironic one.

 Not intended to be ironic, but friendly (as in, don't take this the
 wrong way).

  does anybody care?

 No, probably not.

  Cleared things up? :)
 
  somehow.
 
  i still don't know what the SFLC is, but i guess it's a US american
  company which would do a similar work for, us as the gnome foundation is
  currently doing for the LGM.

 SFLC = Software Freedom Law Center, a non-profit, funded by donations
 from various corporate sponsors, to provide free legal services to free
 software projects. Founded by Eben Moglen, they currently have 3 lawyers
 working for them (Karen Sandler, Aaron Williamson and another I don't
 recall right now) and Bradley Kuhn, formerly of the FSF, who also works
 for them but isn't a lawyer. Brandley also donates some of his time on
 another SFLC project, the Software Freedome Conservancy, which provides
 fiscal agency, financial and administrative services to (you guessed it)
 free software projects. Including, as Jon said, Inkscape.

  what i'm still missing are the advantages against just creating a very
  simple association and using an external organization (like the gnome
  foundation) to manage our funds.

 Create a simple association implies a certain number of things in my
 mind: By-laws  statutes, a membership structure, a governing
 jurisdiction, a board of directors, tax returns, elections... basically,
 a formal structure, registered with some government somewhere, governed
 by the rules of that government (and if you want to give tax deductible
 relief to sponsors, or you want to not pay taxes on donations yourself,
 you have a lot of paperwork to do to justify your organisation).

 By putting yourself under an existing umbrella organisation, you avoid
 that - informal elections or nominations of the people who will deal
 with the umbrella folks would be useful, but you don't need to have
 legally water-tight statutes  by-laws, AGMs, treasurer reports
 submitted to the IRS every year, etc. You're getting all the benefits
 and none of the down-side.

 Plus, in general, the only reason to create an association for a free
 software project is a bank account, some kind of co-ordinated
 marketing/branding campaign, and elected representatives. You don't need
 an association to do the 2nd  3rd.

  or would the SFLC be the full politically correct partner boudwijn was
  suggesting we shold look for?

 The Software Freedom Conservancy probably would be (the SFLC is slightly
 different, but very much related).

  p.s.: after trying several times to understand what To-may-to
  to-mah-to? actually means, i finally got it. now: can we keep a
  language level which is a bit more friendly to non native speakers? (if
  requested, i may even personally switch to sentences with correct caps).

 The song about pronunciations of tomato and potato is very well known
 internationally, and I didn't think that using the phonetics of it might
 cause problems. I am sorry.

 Cheers,
 Dave.

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 dne...@free.fr
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[CREATE] [LGF] A name !

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all,

Libre graphics Foundation (LGF) is our working name now...
here are the suggestions so far :
- Obvious and natural choice seem to be Libre graphics (to decline), but
we don't have the .org domain. Louis may encounter the domain owner to ask
him to give it to us.
- we have suggested Create Fundation during the BoF
- Alessandro suggested Create Lab too, a he have a .org domain to share.

we discussed too that Libre graphics foundation is a bit too long... and a
shorter name would be better for an url.
we may have to decline the name too... : maybe one day there will be a
Libre graphics Network or other similar declinaisons.

Please suggest and vote !
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Re: [CREATE] lgm 2010: last schedule draft

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi all !

I've seen the draft program, and concluded my talk (What about a LG
Foundation ?) will become a BoF session : it's great and I have discussed
with Femke to animate it ;)

But, because I'm new to LGM, I have to ask you one thing : Can we organize
it in a way that allow me to participate another BoF session before I have
to animate one (so, not Thursday as I have seen in the draft before this
one) ?

Thanks a lot for organizing this event.
Camille


2010/5/18 Jon Phillips j...@rejon.org

 Great work! Nate and Femke, how about a press blast about the final
 schedule, final call, and donations?

 Can one go out on WED?

 Jon


 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:23 PM, a.l.e ale.comp...@xox.ch wrote:

 dear creators,

 the last schedule draft

 http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/download/lgm_programme_2010.pdf

 is on the lgm website

 http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index.php?p=en/program

 please check if everything is correct...


 thanks to femke who has put together a very attractive program!



 the final schedule will be very soon on-line

 good night!
 a.l.e
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Re: [CREATE] birds of feather sessions

[Camille Bissuel]

Hi,

I'm very new in the LGM (not even participated a LGM yet), but I may suggest
another BoF session, related to my proposed talk :
http://create.freedesktop.org/wiki/What_about_a_Libre_Graphics_Foundation_%3F

Supposing the talk is accepted and you think it's interesting, of course ;)
It will allow us to go far further in the subject than a talk alone, and in
a more collaborative way !

Cheers,
Camille Bissuel
www.yagraph.org

PS : sorry for the duplicate mail Alexandre

2010/4/15 Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com

 Hi,

 How about we start planing BoF sessions now? :)

 1. OpenRaster. We have both GIMP/GEGL, Krita and, finally, MyPaint
 teams this year.

 2. Unified swatch file format. This year we seem to have Olivier
 Berten of SwatchBooker on board, and Christoph mentioned possibility
 of an ink vendor to participate.

 3. Text Layout Summit. We had it twice at LGM before, right? Nicolas?
 Behdad? SIL guys? Someone from Qt perhaps?

 4. Traditional annual GIMP meeting. Self-explanatory.

 What else? Do we have enough panorama guys for a ptx BoF?

 Alexandre
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