Re: [Crm-sig] Coins 2 CRM (again)

[Simon Spero]

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore <
c.e.s@iln.uio.no> wrote:

>
> The design of the faces of  a coin is usually the result of a human's
> intentional work.
> F2 Expression:
> " This class comprises the intellectual or artistic realisations of works
> in the form of identifiable immaterial objects, such as texts, poems,
> jokes, musical or choreographic notations, movement pattern, sound pattern,
> images, multimedia objects, or any combination of such forms that have
> objectively recognisable structures. The substance of F2 Expression is
> signs."
>

I think that *substance* is also a useful concept here.

I would postulate that for CRM purposes, ten €100 gold coins struck in the
3rd year of the reign of Emperor Millibus,  displayed by a museum on Great
Russell Brand St, then seized, melted down, struck in the form of  ten 100
Farange coins, then returned and displayed, would be considered to be the
same ten coins, even though they are constituted of the same gold.

Similarly, if half of the euro coins are swapped with indistinguishable
coins from the same issue, the collection before and after would not be
considered to be unchanged.

If one accepts this stance, then it follows that each coin is considered to
be an individual.  It is possible that one might consider the sets of coins
to also be individuals.

If the exchange rate is pegged at €1 = 1 Farange, the intrinsic and fiat
value all the sets of coins is the same.  In a CHO context this ought not
to affect ones stance on the identity of the two sets (in a CHF setting,
different concepts may apply).

Coins were created to express  propositions ("This thing weighs ",
"This thing is made of Electrum", "Made in Lydia", "Lions are cool").  They
are information bearing objects, and this information distinguishes the
coinage from an equivalent weight of metal.  (I would consider them to be
documents, but that stance is not necessary)

Simon

[ I use future hypotheticals to allow for knowledge of the coins history
without requiring time travel. However,
http://davidtennantontwitter.blogspot.com/2012/07/david-tennant-doctor-who-banknote-in.html
]

Re: [Crm-sig] Coins 2 CRM (again)

[Stephen Stead]

Would that be “Billy the Cow”? 

Rgds

SdS

NB Only attendees to my tutorials will get this joke!

 

Stephen Stead

Tel +44 20 8668 3075 

Mob +44 7802 755 013

E-mail   ste...@paveprime.com

LinkedIn Profile   
http://uk.linkedin.com/in/steads

 

From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Dan Matei
Sent: 20 November 2014 21:04
To: Wikman Thomas
Cc: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Coins 2 CRM (again)

 

... not to mention COWS :-)

 

http://storyarchaeology.com/cows-as-currency/

 

On 20 November 2014 22:31, Wikman Thomas  wrote:

A n00b question.

 

How do you extend this into crypto currencies when an transaction is not even 
represented by a coin. It’s just a currency. From this point of view a coin is 
just some sort of instance of a currency. Older ones are:

 

* Barter

* Coins

* Bills

* etc

 

best / tw

 

 

 

On 20 nov 2014, at 21:21, Dan Matei  wrote:

 

Hm...

 

If Manifestation Product Type is restricted to "expression carrier", then 
please invent something similar for coins/medals/banknotes. There are so many 
in museums :-)

 

There is a "Product Type" some numismats call "series", others call "issue". 
Look at the American Numismatic Society (e.g.  
 
http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.1(2).aug.2A a "Product Type" with 5 items).

 

In practice, I would not be confortable with generic Types having properties 
like "has_axis" or "has_edge_legend".

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

On 20 November 2014 21:29, martin  wrote:

On 20/11/2014 7:01 μμ, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:

My view is that a coin is an information carrier and indeed is of the category 
of objects found and stored  in a library
C-E

Dear Christian-Emil,

of course we can argue that there is information on it, but we do not acquire
coins to get access to the "Expression" on it. A coin would be functional even 
without any
information on it. May be we overstrech the notion of "Expression" in this 
case? Of course, the coin
by its shape represents a symbol, but this symbol classifies the coin. If I 
have 10 copies of Shakespeare,
I would not argue to have acquired more Shakespeare, as I would with 10 Euro 
coins.

It appears to me, that there is not enough similarity to classify a coin as a 
Manifestation Product Type.

Opinions?

Best,

Martin

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Crm-sig [mailto:crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr] On Behalf Of Maria
Theodoridou
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:34 PM
To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] Coins 2 CRM (again)

Dear Dan,

Indeed we have considered your thoughts and  we have defined as
extensions for the coins and later for the CRM:


E12 Production. PC1 produced things of type: E55 Type
E22 Man-Made Object. PC2 is example of: E55 Type


Both PC1 and PC2 are subproperties of P2 has type

The above are depicted in slide 23 in my presentation where I describe how
we modeled the categorical production.

We believe that PC1 and PC2 are a generalization of R26 produced things of
type and R7 is example of of FRBR.
FRBR is not suitable for our coin modeling since it refers to bibliographic
information, as Christian-Emil pointed out.

It is open for discussion  if there is a need for generalizing F32 Manifestation
Product Type

This is a topic for future discussion in CRM-SIG.

Best regards,
Maria


On 19/11/2014 3:02 μμ, Dan Matei wrote:


Dear Maria



Thanks you. I've read your (very useful) London presentation:



http://www.slideshare.net/MariaTheodoridou/london-meetup2014-
mappingchi2cidoccrm




and I plan to take advantage of the mapping:
http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl/3M 



But I'm tempted to treat the coins as exemplars of an "issue", i.e.



 




IMHO, a thing like:



http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.1(2).cl.31




is a F3, mutatis mutandis.



When you did your mapping did you considered something like this ?
And which were the arguments against ?



Best,



Dan





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R & D Engineer

Information Systems Laboratory & Centre for Cultural Informatics Institute of
Computer Science Foundation of Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
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[Crm-sig] CFP: TPDL 2015, Poznań, Poland, September 14-18, 2015

[papatheodor]

CALL FOR PAPERS TPDL2015

=

Please consider to contribute to and/or forward to the appropriate 
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The full paper submission deadline is March 20, 2015

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Call for Contributions
19th International Conference on Theory and Practice of Digital 
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Poznań, Poland, September 14-18, 2015
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The International Conference on Theory and Practice of Digital Libraries 
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