Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Francesco Beretta]

Dear Christian-Emil and Martin,

Thank you for providing the documentation.

I vote YES.

Best

Francesco

Le 12.01.20 à 20:33, Christian-Emil Smith Ore a écrit :

​Dear all,

It may seem very dramatic to move the  P114-P120 to CRMarcheo. It is not These 
properties correspond more or less to the Allen operators which are not always 
ideal. Several years ago the SIG introduced the following alternatives:


P173 starts before or at the end of (ends with or after the start of): E2 
Temporal Entity
P174 starts before (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal Entity
P175 starts before or with the start of (starts with or after the start of) : 
E2 Temporal Entity
P176 starts before the start of (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal Entity
P182 ends before or at the start of (starts with or after the end of) : E2 
Temporal Entity
P183 ends before the start of (starts after the end of) : E2 Temporal Entity
P184 ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of) : E2 
Temporal Entity
P185 ends before the end of (ends after the end of): E2 Temporal Entity

​These eight properties are superproperties of the P114-P120 as shown below.  
The original idea (when P173-P185 where introduced, entirely  was to deprecate 
the P114-P120.  However,  it is too radical to simply remove them as the two 
comments in this email exchange show.  Since they are considered useful in 
archaeology the idea is to put them there.

Best,
Christian-Emil




P173  starts before or with the end of (ends after or with the start of)

P119i -   is met in time by

P174  -   starts before the end of (ends after the start of)

P118i  --   is overlapped in time by

P134   --   continued (was continued by)E7 Activity <-> E7 
Activity

P175   --   starts before or with the start of (starts after or with the 
start of)

P176   --   -   starts before the start of (starts after the start of)

P115i  --   -   -   is finished by

P117i  --   -   -   includes

P118   --   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)

P182   --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with 
the end of)

P119   --   -   -   -   meets in time with (is met in time by)

P183   --   -   -   -   ends before the start of (starts after the end of)

P120  --   -   -   -   -   occurs  before (occurs  after)

P116  --   -   starts (is started by)

P114  --   -   is equal in time to

P184  --   ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of)

P114  --   -   is equal in time to

P115  --   -   finishes (is finished by)

P185  --   -   ends before the end of (ends after the end of)

P116  --   -   -   starts (is started by)

P117  --   -   -   occurs during (includes)

P182  --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with the 
end of)

P118  --   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)





From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Francesco Beretta 

Sent: 12 January 2020 11:54
To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE


Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,

1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties in 
CRMbase ?

2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal should be 
associated with the list and links to the correspondent issues, shouldn't it ?

3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and extensions (the 
family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear formalization of this 
integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this already done and I just don't know 
where to find it ?

4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and 
dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.


I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we vote. Just 
avoir B..x.. situations.


All the best

Francesco


Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :
Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase 
and reappear in CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of the 
CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a general 
understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following temporal relations 
should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in

Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Øyvind Eide]

Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,

thanks for the explanations and reminders of past discussions. On this basis I 
vote: YES.

All the best,

Øyvind

> Am 12.01.2020 um 20:33 schrieb Christian-Emil Smith Ore 
> :
> 
> ​Dear all,
> It may seem very dramatic to move the  P114-P120 to CRMarcheo. It is not 
> These properties correspond more or less to the Allen operators which are not 
> always ideal. Several years ago the SIG introduced the following alternatives:
> 
> P173 starts before or at the end of (ends with or after the start of): E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P174 starts before (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal Entity
> P175 starts before or with the start of (starts with or after the start of) : 
> E2 Temporal Entity
> P176 starts before the start of (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal 
> Entity
> P182 ends before or at the start of (starts with or after the end of) : E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P183 ends before the start of (starts after the end of) : E2 Temporal Entity
> P184 ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of) : E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P185 ends before the end of (ends after the end of): E2 Temporal Entity
> 
> ​These eight properties are superproperties of the P114-P120 as shown below.  
> The original idea (when P173-P185 where introduced, entirely  was to 
> deprecate the P114-P120.  However,  it is too radical to simply remove them 
> as the two comments in this email exchange show.  Since they are considered 
> useful in archaeology the idea is to put them there.
> 
> Best,
> Christian-Emil
> 
> 
> 
> P173  starts before or with the end of (ends after or with the start of)  
>
> P119i -   is met in time by  
> P174  -   starts before the end of (ends after the start of) 
> P118i  --   is overlapped in time by
> P134   --   continued (was continued by)E7 Activity <-> E7 
> Activity
> P175   --   starts before or with the start of (starts after or with the 
> start of)  
> P176   --   -   starts before the start of (starts after the start of) 
> P115i  --   -   -   is finished by
> P117i  --   -   -   includes  
> P118   --   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by) 
> P182   --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with 
> the end of)
> P119   --   -   -   -   meets in time with (is met in time by)
>  
> P183   --   -   -   -   ends before the start of (starts after the end 
> of) 
> P120  --   -   -   -   -   occurs  before (occurs  after)
> P116  --   -   starts (is started by)
> P114  --   -   is equal in time to
> P184  --   ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of) 
> 
> P114  --   -   is equal in time to
> P115  --   -   finishes (is finished by)   
> P185  --   -   ends before the end of (ends after the end of)
> P116  --   -   -   starts (is started by)   
> P117  --   -   -   occurs during (includes)   
> P182  --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with 
> the end of)
> P118  -    -   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by) 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Francesco Beretta 
> 
> Sent: 12 January 2020 11:54
> To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE
>  
> Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,
> 1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties in 
> CRMbase ?
> 2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal should be 
> associated with the list and links to the correspondent issues, shouldn't it ?
> 3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and extensions (the 
> family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear formalization of this 
> integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this already done and I just don't 
> know where to find it ?
> 4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and 
> dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.
> 
> I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we vote. Just 
> avoir B..x.. situations.
> 
> All the best
> Francesco
> 
> Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :
>> Dear All, 
>> 
>> If you agree that 
>> 
>> "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
>> CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo: 
>> 
>> P114 is equal in time to 
>> P115 finishes (is finished by) 
>> P116 starts (is started by) 
>> P117 occurs during (includes

Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[George Bruseker]

I vote yes

On Mon., Jan. 13, 2020, 12:05 p.m. Athanasios Velios, <
thana...@softicon.co.uk> wrote:

> I vote YES as well.
>
> Thanasis
>
> On 12/01/2020 10:13, Martin Doerr wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > If you agree that
> >
> > "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the
> > CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
> >
> > P114 is equal in time to
> > P115 finishes (is finished by)
> > P116 starts (is started by)
> > P117 occurs during (includes)
> > P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> > P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
> > P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
> > PLEASE VOTE "YES"
> > otherwise "NO"
> > Best,
> > Martin
> >
> > On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
> >> Dear all,
> >> In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of
> >> the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a
> >> general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following
> >> temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in
> >> CRMarcheo:
> >> P114 is equal in time to
> >> P115 finishes (is finished by)
> >> P116 starts (is started by)
> >> P117 occurs during (includes)
> >> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> >> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
> >> P120 occurs before (occurs after)
> >>
> >> However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the
> >> amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list
> >> of issues.
> >>
> >> I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Christian-Emil
> >>
> >>
> >> ​
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Crm-sig mailing list
> >> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> >
> >
> > --
> > 
> >   Dr. Martin Doerr
> >
> >   Honorary Head of the
> >   Center for Cultural Informatics
> >
> >   Information Systems Laboratory
> >   Institute of Computer Science
> >   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
> >
> >   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
> >   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
> >
> >   Vox:+30(2810)391625
> >   Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
> >   Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Crm-sig mailing list
> > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> >
> ___
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Athanasios Velios]

I vote YES as well.

Thanasis

On 12/01/2020 10:13, Martin Doerr wrote:

Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:


P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:

Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of 
the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a 
general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following 
temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in 
CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list 
of issues.


I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​



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--

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  Honorary Head of the

  Center for Cultural Informatics
  
  Information Systems Laboratory

  Institute of Computer Science
  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
   
  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
  
  Vox:+30(2810)391625
  Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr   
  Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl  



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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Richard Light]

I vote YES.


Richard


On 12/01/2020 10:13, Martin Doerr wrote:
Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase 
and reappear in CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after) "
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of the 
CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a general 
understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following temporal relations 
should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the amendment 
part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list of issues.

I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​




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--

 Dr. Martin Doerr

 Honorary Head of the
 Center for Cultural Informatics

 Information Systems Laboratory
 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)

 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece

 Vox:+30(2810)391625
 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl




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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Дарья Юрьевна Гук]

Yes

With kind regards,
Daria Hookk

Senior Researcher of
the dept. of archaeology of
Eastern Europe and Siberia of 
the State Hermitage Museum,
PhD, ICOMOS member

E-mail: ho...@hermitage.ru
Skype: daria.hookk
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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Achille Felicetti]

Dear all,

I obviously vote YES!

Regards,
A.

> Il giorno 13 gen 2020, alle ore 09:34, Christian-Emil Smith Ore 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> ​I vote YES
> 
> Best,
> Christian-Emil
> From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Martin Doerr 
> 
> Sent: 12 January 2020 11:13
> To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> Subject: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE
>  
> Dear All,
> 
> If you agree that 
> 
> "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase 
> and reappear in CRMarcheo:
> 
> P114 is equal in time to 
> P115 finishes (is finished by) 
> P116 starts (is started by) 
> P117 occurs during (includes) 
> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by) 
> P120 occurs before (occurs after) " 
> PLEASE VOTE "YES"
> otherwise "NO"
> Best,
> Martin 
> 
> On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of the 
>> CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a general 
>> understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following temporal 
>> relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
>> P114 is equal in time to 
>> P115 finishes (is finished by) 
>> P116 starts (is started by) 
>> P117 occurs during (includes) 
>> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
>> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by) 
>> P120 occurs before (occurs after) 
>> 
>> However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
>> amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list of 
>> issues.  
>> 
>> I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Christian-Emil
>> 
>> 
>> ​
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Crm-sig mailing list
>> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr <mailto:Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>
>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig 
>> <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig>
> 
> -- 
> 
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>   
>  Honorary Head of the 
>   
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>  
>  Information Systems Laboratory  
>  Institute of Computer Science 
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)   
>   
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, 
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece 
>  
>  Vox:+30(2810)391625  
>  Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr <mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr>  
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl> 
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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Robert Sanderson]

YES

(thank you for the explanations!)

Rob

From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Martin Doerr 

Date: Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 2:22 AM
To: "crm-sig@ics.forth.gr" 
Subject: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase 
and reappear in CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after) "
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of the 
CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a general 
understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following temporal relations 
should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the amendment 
part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list of issues.

I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​





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 Honorary Head of the

 Center for Cultural Informatics



 Information Systems Laboratory

 Institute of Computer Science

 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)



 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece



 Vox:+30(2810)391625

 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr<mailto:mar...@ics.forth.gr>

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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Detlev Balzer]

Thanks Martin and Christian-Emil, for the explanations.

Honestly, I had forgotten about P137 ... and P182 ...

Therefore I revise my vote to YES.

Detlev

> Christian-Emil Smith Ore  hat am 12. Januar 2020 um 
> 20:33 geschrieben:
> 
> 
> ​Dear all,
> 
> It may seem very dramatic to move the  P114-P120 to CRMarcheo. It is not 
> These properties correspond more or less to the Allen operators which are not 
> always ideal. Several years ago the SIG introduced the following alternatives:
> 
> 
> P173 starts before or at the end of (ends with or after the start of): E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P174 starts before (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal Entity
> P175 starts before or with the start of (starts with or after the start of) : 
> E2 Temporal Entity
> P176 starts before the start of (starts after the start of): E2 Temporal 
> Entity
> P182 ends before or at the start of (starts with or after the end of) : E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P183 ends before the start of (starts after the end of) : E2 Temporal Entity
> P184 ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of) : E2 
> Temporal Entity
> P185 ends before the end of (ends after the end of): E2 Temporal Entity
> 
> ​These eight properties are superproperties of the P114-P120 as shown below.  
> The original idea (when P173-P185 where introduced, entirely  was to 
> deprecate the P114-P120.  However,  it is too radical to simply remove them 
> as the two comments in this email exchange show.  Since they are considered 
> useful in archaeology the idea is to put them there.
> 
> Best,
> Christian-Emil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P173  starts before or with the end of (ends after or with the start of)
> 
> P119i -   is met in time by
> 
> P174  -   starts before the end of (ends after the start of)
> 
> P118i  --   is overlapped in time by
> 
> P134   --   continued (was continued by)E7 Activity <-> E7 
> Activity
> 
> P175   --   starts before or with the start of (starts after or with the 
> start of)
> 
> P176   --   -   starts before the start of (starts after the start of)
> 
> P115i  --   -   -   is finished by
> 
> P117i  --   -   -   includes
> 
> P118   --   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> 
> P182   --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with 
> the end of)
> 
> P119   --   -   -   -   meets in time with (is met in time by)
> 
> P183   --   -   -   -   ends before the start of (starts after the end of)
> 
> P120  --   -   -   -   -   occurs  before (occurs  after)
> 
> P116  --   -   starts (is started by)
> 
> P114  --   -   is equal in time to
> 
> P184  --   ends before or with the end of (ends with or after the end of)
> 
> P114  --   -   is equal in time to
> 
> P115  --   -   finishes (is finished by)
> 
> P185  --   -   ends before the end of (ends after the end of)
> 
> P116  --   -   -   starts (is started by)
> 
> P117  --   -   -   occurs during (includes)
> 
> P182  --   -   -   ends before or at the start of (starts after or with 
> the end of)
> 
> P118  --   -   -   overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Crm-sig  on behalf of Francesco Beretta 
> 
> Sent: 12 January 2020 11:54
> To: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE
> 
> 
> Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,
> 
> 1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties in 
> CRMbase ?
> 
> 2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal should be 
> associated with the list and links to the correspondent issues, shouldn't it ?
> 
> 3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and extensions (the 
> family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear formalization of this 
> integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this already done and I just don't 
> know where to find it ?
> 
> 4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and 
> dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.
> 
> 
> I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we vote. Just 
> avoir B..x.. situations.
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Francesco
> 
> 
> Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :
> Dear All,
> 
> If you agree that
> 
> "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase 
> and reappear in CRMarcheo:
> 
> P114 is equal in time to
> P115 finishes (is finished by)
> P116 starts (is started by)
> P117 occurs during (includes)
>

Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Martin Doerr]

Dear All,

I am sorry, of course this needs explanations.

The Allen relations have turned out to be problematic in practice,
a) because OR combination are needed to relax the relations to those as 
we typically find from historical or archaeological evidence and 
conditions of incomplete knowledge,
b) therefore we could not declare temporal constraints implied by 
semantic relations as superproperties.
c) they are based on exact temporal boundaries, that exist only in 
contracts or administration acts.


Therefore we have already replaced them with a new set of primitives:

P173 - P176, P182 - P185.

They are compatible with evidence-based temporal constraints, and use a 
sound logic to cover fuzzy boundaries.


They are extensively discussed and explained in section : "Temporal 
Relation Primitives based on fuzzy boundaries"

in the last draft version 6.2.7 of the CRM.

At most two of these in AND combination (two superproperties) create any 
Allen relation.


Therefore it makes no sense to have two sets of competing primitives in 
the CRMBase, and we have already a lot of topological relations in CRMBase.


The deprecation statements ("use...") should contain the replacement 
statements.


Typical applications of Allen relations are the "epistemic" partitioning 
of periods in classical archaeology in 3 phases. Therefore we had 
decided (missing in the minutes) that these should appear in CRMarcheo 
as subproperties of the new primitives.


Please vote only, if you have read the text "Temporal Relation 
Primitives based on fuzzy boundaries" and the definitions of the new 
properties.


Kind regards,

Martin

On 1/12/2020 12:54 PM, Francesco Beretta wrote:


Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,

1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties 
in CRMbase ?


2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal 
should be associated with the list and links to the correspondent 
issues, shouldn't it ?


3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and 
extensions (the family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear 
formalization of this integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this 
already done and I just don't know where to find it ?


4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and 
dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.



I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we 
vote. Just avoir B..x.. situations.



All the best

Francesco


Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :

Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:


P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:

Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of 
the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a 
general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following 
temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear 
in CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the 
list of issues.


I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​



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--

 Dr. Martin Doerr
  
 Honorary Head of the

 Center for Cultural Informatics
 
 Information Systems Laboratory

 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
  
 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
 
 Vox:+30(2810)391625

 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Detlev Balzer]

I vote NO.

Temporal relationships are not only useful in archaeology. Time is such an 
important dimension that I think that these should remain part of the core 
ontology.

Detlev

> Martin Doerr  hat am 12. Januar 2020 um 11:13 
> geschrieben:
> 
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> If you agree that
> 
> "the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
> CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:
> 
> P114 is equal in time to
> P115 finishes (is finished by)
> P116 starts (is started by)
> P117 occurs during (includes)
> P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
> P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
> PLEASE VOTE "YES"
> otherwise "NO"
> Best,
> Martin
> 
> On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:
> > Dear all,
> > In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of 
> > the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a 
> > general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following 
> > temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in 
> > CRMarcheo:
> > P114 is equal in time to
> > P115 finishes (is finished by)
> > P116 starts (is started by)
> > P117 occurs during (includes)
> > P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
> > P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
> > P120 occurs before (occurs after)
> >
> > However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
> > amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list 
> > of issues.
> >
> > I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.
> >
> > Best,
> > Christian-Emil
> >
> >
> > ​
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Crm-sig mailing list
> > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>   Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>   Honorary Head of the
>   Center for Cultural Informatics
>   
>   Information Systems Laboratory
>   Institute of Computer Science
>   Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>   N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>   GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>   
>   Vox:+30(2810)391625
>   Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
>   Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
> 
> ___
> Crm-sig mailing list
> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr
> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig

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Re: [Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Francesco Beretta]

Dear Martin and Christian-Emil,

1. is there any replacement foreseen for these quite useful properties 
in CRMbase ?


2. for the sake of clear documentation and legacy the vote proposal 
should be associated with the list and links to the correspondent 
issues, shouldn't it ?


3. I'm quite in favour of this vision of a core (CRMbase) and extensions 
(the family) but shouldn't we start working on a clear formalization of 
this integration (cf. e.g. the TEI) – or is this already done and I just 
don't know where to find it ?


4. One aspect of this task is to have a consistent URI definitions and 
dereferencing for CRMbase and family and their different versions.



I think point 1 and 2 should be clarified to the voters before we vote. 
Just avoir B..x.. situations.



All the best

Francesco


Le 12.01.20 à 11:13, Martin Doerr a écrit :

Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:


P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:

Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of 
the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a 
general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following 
temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear 
in CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list 
of issues.


I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​



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[Crm-sig] ISSUE P114-P120 VOTE

[Martin Doerr]

Dear All,

If you agree that

"the following Allen's temporal relations should be deprecated in the 
CRMbase and reappear in CRMarcheo:


P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)"
PLEASE VOTE "YES"
otherwise "NO"
Best,
Martin

On 1/12/2020 10:29 AM, Christian-Emil Smith Ore wrote:

Dear all,
In the October 2019 meeting in Iraklio, we did a general cleanup of 
the CRM-document based on Martin's and my general review. It was a 
general understanding that the  SIG had decided that the following 
temporal relations should be deprecated in the CRMbase and reappear in 
CRMarcheo:

P114 is equal in time to
P115 finishes (is finished by)
P116 starts (is started by)
P117 occurs during (includes)
P118 overlaps in time with (is overlapped in time by)
P119 meets in time with (is met in time by)
P120 occurs before (occurs after)

However, I cannot find any traces of such a decision neither in the 
amendment part, in the minutes the previous two years nor in the list 
of issues.


I suggest that this decision could be done by email vote.

Best,
Christian-Emil


​



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--

 Dr. Martin Doerr
  
 Honorary Head of the

 Center for Cultural Informatics
 
 Information Systems Laboratory

 Institute of Computer Science
 Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
  
 N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,

 GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
 
 Vox:+30(2810)391625

 Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
 Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl

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