Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I am not suggesting that all the bundles in the whole Eclipse top-level project should have the same target. Target decisions are made at the level of logical components and most of the components are composed of multiple bundles. Within a component, specifying different targets at bundle-level mostly just causes confusion without increasing flexibility, since individual bundles within a component are unlikely to be used separately (the definition of a component). - Konstantin From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Megert Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 12:54 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? > The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change > these for a broader component. SWT for example can easily be used stand-alone and it's just wrong to force every client to use JRE 6 just because the Eclipse IDE as a whole requires it. Increasing the BREE for low-level bundles can affect many people/projects as you can well see in Luna, where Equinox increased to 'JavaSE-1.6' (see <https://bugs.eclipse.org/416432> bug 416432 for discussion). Another counterexample is JDT which has bundles that require JRE 7. If we would take your approach, we would switch the BREE for all (at least JDT) bundles to 'JavaSE-1.7'. Dani From:"Konstantin Komissarchik" To:"'Cross project issues'" Date: 03.09.2013 18:45 Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] HasJava 5Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org _ And this is exactly why a granular approach to supported targets is a bad idea. While it does offer some more flexibility in certain situations, it causes massive confusion as to what's supported overall. The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change these for a broader component. - Konstantin From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [ <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org> mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Ed Willink Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? Sent by: <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org> cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org _ Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on <http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that t
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
> One might chose to replace its dependency Y with one Y' that has a > lower BREE. E.g. I might decide to replace the current > org.eclipse.core.runtime bundle with an older version that still works > with a lower BREE. This would assume that the plug-in X does not use any API introduced in newer version of Y. AFAIK the platform has no tests running to test such scenarios hence I think in practice the replacement would not work. 2013/9/4 Markus Alexander Kuppe < cross-project-issues-dev_eclipse@lemmster.de> > On 09/04/2013 01:54 PM, Lars Vogel wrote: > > It looks to me that some org.eclipse.ui.* plug-ins require an BREE update > > in this case. I think a plug-in cannot require a lower Java version than > a > > plug-in which it requires as dependency. SWT is a special case as it has > no > > plug-in dependencies. > > > > For example org.eclipse.ui.view defined a BREE of J2SE-1.4. > org.eclipse.ui > > defines a BREE of J2SE-1.3. But both depend on org.eclipse.core.runtime > > which currently defines J2SE-1.5 (should that be JavaSE-1.6 according to > > this discussion?). > > Why increase the BREE of bundle X if its dependency Y requires a higher > BREE? One might chose to replace its dependency Y with one Y' that has a > lower BREE. E.g. I might decide to replace the current > org.eclipse.core.runtime bundle with an older version that still works > with a lower BREE. > > M. > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
You might still be able to use parts of e.g. 'org.eclipse.ui' with 1.3 (e.g. SWT) but other bundles/functionality will fail to load when actually used. The PMC already noticed that the current information in the plan should be improved but did not yet change it. See bug 377028 for details. Dani From: Lars Vogel To: Cross project issues Date: 04.09.2013 13:54 Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org It looks to me that some org.eclipse.ui.* plug-ins require an BREE update in this case. I think a plug-in cannot require a lower Java version than a plug-in which it requires as dependency. SWT is a special case as it has no plug-in dependencies. For example org.eclipse.ui.view defined a BREE of J2SE-1.4. org.eclipse.ui defines a BREE of J2SE-1.3. But both depend on org.eclipse.core.runtime which currently defines J2SE-1.5 (should that be JavaSE-1.6 according to this discussion?). Best regards, Lars 2013/9/4 Daniel Megert > The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change > these for a broader component. SWT for example can easily be used stand-alone and it's just wrong to force every client to use JRE 6 just because the Eclipse IDE as a whole requires it. Increasing the BREE for low-level bundles can affect many people/projects as you can well see in Luna, where Equinox increased to 'JavaSE-1.6' (see bug 416432 for discussion). Another counterexample is JDT which has bundles that require JRE 7. If we would take your approach, we would switch the BREE for all (at least JDT) bundles to 'JavaSE-1.7'. Dani From:"Konstantin Komissarchik" To:"'Cross project issues'" Date:03.09.2013 18:45 Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org And this is exactly why a granular approach to supported targets is a bad idea. While it does offer some more flexibility in certain situations, it causes massive confusion as to what?s supported overall. The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change these for a broader component. - Konstantin From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [ mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org ] On Behalf Of Ed Willink Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From:Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platfor
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
On 09/04/2013 01:54 PM, Lars Vogel wrote: > It looks to me that some org.eclipse.ui.* plug-ins require an BREE update > in this case. I think a plug-in cannot require a lower Java version than a > plug-in which it requires as dependency. SWT is a special case as it has no > plug-in dependencies. > > For example org.eclipse.ui.view defined a BREE of J2SE-1.4. org.eclipse.ui > defines a BREE of J2SE-1.3. But both depend on org.eclipse.core.runtime > which currently defines J2SE-1.5 (should that be JavaSE-1.6 according to > this discussion?). Why increase the BREE of bundle X if its dependency Y requires a higher BREE? One might chose to replace its dependency Y with one Y' that has a lower BREE. E.g. I might decide to replace the current org.eclipse.core.runtime bundle with an older version that still works with a lower BREE. M. ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
It looks to me that some org.eclipse.ui.* plug-ins require an BREE update in this case. I think a plug-in cannot require a lower Java version than a plug-in which it requires as dependency. SWT is a special case as it has no plug-in dependencies. For example org.eclipse.ui.view defined a BREE of J2SE-1.4. org.eclipse.ui defines a BREE of J2SE-1.3. But both depend on org.eclipse.core.runtime which currently defines J2SE-1.5 (should that be JavaSE-1.6 according to this discussion?). Best regards, Lars 2013/9/4 Daniel Megert > > The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on > bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a > meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and > update the requirements when a decision is made to change > these for a > broader component. > > SWT for example can easily be used stand-alone and it's just wrong to > force every client to use JRE 6 just because the Eclipse IDE as a whole > requires it. Increasing the BREE for low-level bundles can affect many > people/projects as you can well see in Luna, where Equinox increased to > 'JavaSE-1.6' (see *bug 416432* <https://bugs.eclipse.org/416432> for > discussion). Another counterexample is JDT which has bundles that require > JRE 7. If we would take your approach, we would switch the BREE for all (at > least JDT) bundles to 'JavaSE-1.7'. > > Dani > > > From:"Konstantin Komissarchik" > > To: "'Cross project issues'" > Date: 03.09.2013 18:45 > Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]HasJava >5Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? > Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > -- > > > > And this is exactly why a granular approach to supported targets is a bad > idea. While it does offer some more flexibility in certain situations, it > causes massive confusion as to what’s supported overall. > > The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on > bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a > meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and > update the requirements when a decision is made to change these for a > broader component. > > - Konstantin > > > *From:* cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [ > mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Ed Willink > * > Sent:* Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM* > To:* Cross project issues > * > Subject:* Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been > discontinued? > > > Hi > > I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". > >Regards > >Ed Willink > On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: > I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform > requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I > do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. > > John > > > > > From:Ed Willink ** > To:Cross project issues > **, > > Date:09/03/2013 10:47 AM > Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 > Platformsupportbeendiscontinued? > Sent by: > *cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org* > -- > > > > > Hi > > I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this > is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. > > *Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence > on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on > the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of > operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference > facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation > 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc).* > > *In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix > of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is > targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available > for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development > capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them.* > > Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it > seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on * > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > *<http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
> The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change > these for a broader component. SWT for example can easily be used stand-alone and it's just wrong to force every client to use JRE 6 just because the Eclipse IDE as a whole requires it. Increasing the BREE for low-level bundles can affect many people/projects as you can well see in Luna, where Equinox increased to ' JavaSE-1.6' (see bug 416432 for discussion). Another counterexample is JDT which has bundles that require JRE 7. If we would take your approach, we would switch the BREE for all (at least JDT) bundles to 'JavaSE-1.7'. Dani From: "Konstantin Komissarchik" To: "'Cross project issues'" Date: 03.09.2013 18:45 Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org And this is exactly why a granular approach to supported targets is a bad idea. While it does offer some more flexibility in certain situations, it causes massive confusion as to what?s supported overall. The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change these for a broader component. - Konstantin From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [ mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Ed Willink Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From:Ed Willink To:Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they ar
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
He didn't. He said that the platform doesn't support java5: "Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles)." On 03/09/2013 12:34 PM, Ed Willink wrote: Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java5 Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org -- Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. /Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc)./ /In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them./ Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on _http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix_ still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From: Ed Willink __ <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To: Cross project issues __ <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>, Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by: _cross-project-issues-dev-bounces
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
And this is exactly why a granular approach to supported targets is a bad idea. While it does offer some more flexibility in certain situations, it causes massive confusion as to what's supported overall. The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision is made to change these for a broader component. - Konstantin From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Ed Willink Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I must be very dense. Where does it say "The platform requires Java 6". Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote: I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> , Date:09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org _ Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on <http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> , Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by: <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org> cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org _ Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 10:47 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From:Ed Willink To:Cross project issues , Date:09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From:Ed Willink To:Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 08:34 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to a
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I think you dodged the answer :). If you use Java 5, you're have no guarantees. We could change org.eclipse.* to 1.6, but that would be a huge effort for little gain. From: Ed Willink mailto:e...@willink.me.uk>> Reply-To: Cross project issues mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> Date: Tuesday, 3 September, 2013 10:45 AM To: Cross project issues mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>, Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org<mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org> Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org>, Date:09/03/2013 08:34
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this is what we do, and very little of this is what we require. Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure" Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system. The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their source code to only reference facilities available in particular class libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc). In general, the 4.3 release of the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs. As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on the VMs that support them. Yes there have been a few bundles that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the platform needs 1.6. I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement. Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant. There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6 is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant). Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6 Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote: I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter t
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java 5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced individually. John From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 09:24 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From:Ed Willink To:Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 08:34 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: > See > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > for the table of minimum EE per bundle. > > Szymon > > > > > From: David M Williams > To: Cross project issues > Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support > been discontinued? > Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > >> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not > Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and > combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > >> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and > various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to > "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of > those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). > > I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, > if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements > for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need > to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the > committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it > impacts adopters. > > But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my > personal advice. > > HTH > > > > > > From:Ed Willink > To:Cross project issues , > Date:09/02/2013 11:02 AM > Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I agree. Let's figure out how to publicly and formally drop support for Java 5. Sun/Oracle discontinued public support in 2009! From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#J2SE_5.0_.28September_30.2 C_2004.29 J2SE 5.0 entered its end-of-public-updates period on April 8, 2008 updates are no longer available to the public as of November 3, 2009. Is this a Planning Council topic? Mike Milinkovich mike.milinkov...@eclipse.org +1.613.220.3223 From: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Ed Willink Sent: September-03-13 9:24 AM To: Cross project issues Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> , Date: 09/03/2013 08:34 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform supportbeendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org _ Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: > See > <http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > for the table of minimum EE per bundle. > > Szymon > > > > > From: David M Williams <mailto:david_willi...@us.ibm.com> > To: Cross project issues <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org> > Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support > been discontinued? > Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > >> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not > Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and > combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > >> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and > various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to > "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of > those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). > > I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, > if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements > for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need > to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the > committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it > impacts adopters. > > But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my > personal advice. > > HTH > > > > > > From:Ed Willink <mailto:e...@willink.me.uk> > To:Cross project issues <mailto:cross-proje
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated, I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5. Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward. OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence. Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep. I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate this are we 5 or 6 limbo? Regards Ed Willink On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote: I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 08:34 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: > See > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > for the table of minimum EE per bundle. > > Szymon > > > > > From: David M Williams > To: Cross project issues > Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support > been discontinued? > Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > >> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not > Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and > combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > >> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and > various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to > "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of > those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). > > I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, > if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements > for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need > to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the > committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it > impacts adopters. > > But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my > personal advice. > > HTH &g
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Sorry for not communicating this aspect of the Equinox Framework changes in Luna. Obviously we need to spell out the VM requirements clearly for the Equinox framework being included in Luna. the NLS class is part of the Equinox framework which has moved up to requiring Java 6. Sorry for the inconvenience this may have caused. I opened a bug in Equinox to make sure this is clearly documented and allow others to voice concerns over the move to Java 6 [1] Tom [1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=416432 From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 07:34 AM Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: > See > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > for the table of minimum EE per bundle. > > Szymon > > > > > From: David M Williams > To:Cross project issues > Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support > been discontinued? > Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > >> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not > Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and > combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > >> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and > various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to > "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of > those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). > > I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, > if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements > for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need > to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the > committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it > impacts adopters. > > But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my > personal advice. > > HTH > > > > > > From:Ed Willink > To:Cross project issues , > Date:09/02/2013 11:02 AM > Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been > discontinued? > Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > > Hi > > Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail > with a NoClassDef found for Platform. > > Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. > > So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > > Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > > Regards > > Ed Willink > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6630 - Release Date: 09/02/13 > > ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev <>___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we intend, for example, https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116 https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419 I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't think it changes the bottom line: If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry". From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/03/2013 08:34 AM Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: > See > http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix > for the table of minimum EE per bundle. > > Szymon > > > > > From: David M Williams > To:Cross project issues > Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support > been discontinued? > Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > >> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not > Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and > combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > >> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and > various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to > "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of > those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). > > I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, > if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements > for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need > to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the > committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it > impacts adopters. > > But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my > personal advice. > > HTH > > > > > > From:Ed Willink > To:Cross project issues , > Date:09/02/2013 11:02 AM > Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been > discontinued? > Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > > > > Hi > > Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail > with a NoClassDef found for Platform. > > Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. > > So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. > > Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? > > Regards > > Ed Willink > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > ___ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6630 - Release Date: 09/02/13 > > ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi Szymon Your list omits the 'culprit'. It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all attempts at internationalization with Java 5. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote: See http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix for the table of minimum EE per bundle. Szymon From: David M Williams To: Cross project issues Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it impacts adopters. But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my personal advice. HTH From:Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/02/2013 11:02 AM Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail with a NoClassDef found for Platform. Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Regards Ed Willink ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6630 - Release Date: 09/02/13 ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi I have no particular problem about moving to 1.6, apart from a lot of @Override warning tedium. However so long as EMF claims to support 1.5, I try to test my low level Modeling Project against 1.5. Half of my tests still pass on 1.5, so EMF is clearly still good to go for 1.5. It's the platform that causes a surprise. Regards Ed Willink On 02/09/2013 16:34, David M Williams wrote: > So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it impacts adopters. But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my personal advice. HTH From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/02/2013 11:02 AM Subject: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail with a NoClassDef found for Platform. Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Regards Ed Willink ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6630 - Release Date: 09/02/13 ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
See http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix for the table of minimum EE per bundle. Szymon From: David M Williams To: Cross project issues Date: 2013-09-02 17:34 Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org > So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it impacts adopters. But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my personal advice. HTH From:Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/02/2013 11:02 AM Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail with a NoClassDef found for Platform. Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Regards Ed Willink ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If not Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always some bundles (and combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs. > Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings, and various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5" bundles were moving to "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet a comprehensive list of those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves). I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer" ... so, if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you need to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if it impacts adopters. But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6" ... would be my personal advice. HTH From: Ed Willink To: Cross project issues , Date: 09/02/2013 11:02 AM Subject:[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support beendiscontinued? Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org Hi Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail with a NoClassDef found for Platform. Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Regards Ed Willink ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Hi Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now fail with a NoClassDef found for Platform. Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run fine. So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5. Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change? Regards Ed Willink ___ cross-project-issues-dev mailing list cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev