subject:"\[cross\-project\-issues\-dev\] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,"

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-20 Thread Matthew Ward

Ok I"ll be in tomorrow

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:19 AM Denis Roy 
wrote:

> Ed,
>
> I'm very sorry that you choose to see this as a vandalism. Change is
> always difficult to manage; yet if we refusing to accept it, we risk being
> left behind while our surroundings evolve around us. We've been holding
> onto good-old status quo for as long as we could. We must continue to
> evolve. Collectively.
>
> I think your energies would be better invested in moving your projects
> forward. We can help, the burden is not all on you, and we've stretched the
> timelines as much as possible. You might be pleasantly surprised with the
> end result.
>
> Unfortunately, you've been plagued with email issues for over a decade.
> Each time the EF IT team has plowed through logs and have given you trace
> IDs to try to track the issue at your provider. GitLab is talking to you. I
> don't feel we can do any more here.
>
>
>
> Denis
>
>
>
> On 2022-04-19 05:54, Ed Willink wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving
> deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I
> didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who / what is
> the underlying motivating force for this madness.
>
> Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since the EF
> is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered sacrosanct.
>
> No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed
> On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
> issue rather than on this mailing list.
>
> https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
>
> This way all the interested parties can partake in the discussion and it
> will be recorded in one place rather than threaded through this mailing
> list.  Also, you will then see how issues work (which is rather cool in my
> opinion) and you will be able to comment in a more informed way about it.
>
> I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from the
> discussion because when you describe something as 'vandalism' it implies
> that there are vandals about.  I'm very sure that our fine, overworked,
> Eclipse-Foundation IT staff will not appreciate that implication, nor
> suggestions that there is craziness and madness involved.
>
> Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...
>
> Regards,
> Ed
>
> On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to be
> avoided.
>
> So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?
>
> Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab seems
> unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may please many. I
> do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open on every gitlab issue
> I care about and to poll them to see what has happened.
>
> Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept that
> this may be a necessary evil.
>
> It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a totally
> unjustified vandalism.
>
> The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Willink
> On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was
> announced to all committers:
>
>   https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html
>
> The announcement included a plan:
>
>
> https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan
>
> It also included a place for providing feedback:
>
>   https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
>
> The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a
> done deal and will not be undone.
>
> Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move them
> between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's not so
> clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos
> and organizations isn't clear.
>
> Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.
>
> https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
> https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
> https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
> https://github.com/eclipse-platform/
>
> There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
> richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.
>
> In any case, the place to  have a discussions, and to suggest concrete
> proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list:
>
>   https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678
>
>
> Regards,
> Ed
>
> On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need to
> chase endless ripples?
>
> While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org might
> be necessary and a manageable pain

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Denis Roy

Ed,

I'm very sorry that you choose to see this as a vandalism. Change is
always difficult to manage; yet if we refusing to accept it, we risk
being left behind while our surroundings evolve around us. We've been
holding onto good-old status quo for as long as we could. We must
continue to evolve. Collectively.

I think your energies would be better invested in moving your projects
forward. We can help, the burden is not all on you, and we've stretched
the timelines as much as possible. You might be pleasantly surprised
with the end result.

Unfortunately, you've been plagued with email issues for over a decade.
Each time the EF IT team has plowed through logs and have given you
trace IDs to try to track the issue at your provider. GitLab is talking
to you. I don't feel we can do any more here.

Denis

On 2022-04-19 05:54, Ed Willink wrote:

Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving
deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I
didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who /
what is the underlying motivating force for this madness.

Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since
the EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered
sacrosanct.

No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.

Regards

On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
issue rather than on this mailing list.

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

This way all the interested parties can partake in the discussion and
it will be recorded in one place rather than threaded through this
mailing list. Also, you will then see how issues work (which is
rather cool in my opinion) and you will be able to comment in a more
informed way about it.

I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from the
discussion because when you describe something as 'vandalism' it
implies that there are vandals about. I'm very sure that our fine,
overworked, Eclipse-Foundation IT staff will not appreciate that
implication, nor suggestions that there is craziness and madness
involved.

Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to
be avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab
seems unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may
please many. I do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open
on every gitlab issue I care about and to poll them to see what has
happened.

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept
that this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a
totally unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org
was announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so
that's a done deal and will not be undone.

Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move
them between organizations, when an organization has many repos,
it's not so clear where to open and issue, and how to search for
issues across repos and organizations isn't clear.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is
much richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and
examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest
concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than
the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the
need to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and
wiki.eclipse.org might be necessary and a manageable pain
mitigated by redirects, terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the
platform and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of
many design decisions. The integrity of this

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Christoph Läubrich

Just curious, if as you stated

> I do not know who / what is the underlying motivating
> force for this madness.

how do you know that, as you stated

> The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

and it was not considered?

From what I have seen on the mailingslist and elsewhere, many different
options where discussion and there was a lot of room for the community
to participate and give suggestions.

Am 19.04.22 um 11:54 schrieb Ed Willink:

Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving
deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I
didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who / what
is the underlying motivating force for this madness.

Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since the
EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered sacrosanct.

No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.

Regards

On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
issue rather than on this mailing list.

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to
be avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept
that this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a
totally unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org
was announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's
a done deal and will not be undone.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest
concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than
the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need
to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org
might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects,
terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the
platform and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of
many design decisions. The integrity of this record should not
lightly be discarded, particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL.
Ok it is not seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me that
just demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are
far from adequate.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long
encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the
correct product, sure in the

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Ed Merks

Ed,

Clearly you are not sorry. So be it. The underlying motivation has
been articulated in the past of several occasions: reducing the number
of essential services that must be supported. Yes, it's frustrating I
know. I miss Gerrit already...

Apparently you do know how to create issues and how to comment on issues
on gitlab:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/1049
https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/1143

So please comment there because I don't think the broader audience here
needs to know the dictionary meaning of vandalism. Please, please try to
be constructive.

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 11:54, Ed Willink wrote:

Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since
the EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered
sacrosanct.

No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.

Regards

On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
issue rather than on this mailing list.

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to
be avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept
that this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a
totally unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org
was announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so
that's a done deal and will not be undone.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is
much richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and
examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest
concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than
the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the
need to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and
wiki.eclipse.org might be necessary and a manageable pain
mitigated by redirects, terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Ed Willink

Sorry. This is vandalism. No other word for it. "action involving
deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property." I
didn't call anyone in particular a vandal since I do not know who / what
is the underlying motivating force for this madness.

Yes I'm frustrated and seriously considering quitting Eclipse since the
EF is pulling the rug out from facilities that I considered sacrosanct.

No I can't use gitlab since gitlab doesn't talk to me.

Regards

On 19/04/2022 09:25, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
issue rather than on this mailing list.

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to
be avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept
that this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a
totally unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org
was announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's
a done deal and will not be undone.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest
concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than
the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need
to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org
might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects,
terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long
encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the
correct product, sure in the knowledge that it can be re-componented.

For instance
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944 was
recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally plausibly
triaged as an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced back
again to EMF with the option to bounce further to platform.
Bugzilla supports this very cleanly.

For instance again, last week I was forced to raise
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE
since

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Ed Merks

Ed,

I want to suggest *yet again *to please have this discussion on this
issue rather than on this mailing list.

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

This way all the interested parties can partake in the discussion and it
will be recorded in one place rather than threaded through this mailing
list. Also, you will then see how issues work (which is rather cool in
my opinion) and you will be able to comment in a more informed way about it.

I'd also strongly suggest omitting the emotional baggage from the
discussion because when you describe something as 'vandalism' it implies
that there are vandals about. I'm very sure that our fine, overworked,
Eclipse-Foundation IT staff will not appreciate that implication, nor
suggestions that there is craziness and madness involved.

Let's please be nice with one another, even when we are frustrated...

Regards,
Ed

On 19.04.2022 10:08, Ed Willink wrote:

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to
be avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab seems
unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may please
many. I do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open on every
gitlab issue I care about and to poll them to see what has happened.

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept that
this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a totally
unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org
was announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's
a done deal and will not be undone.

Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move
them between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's
not so clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues
across repos and organizations isn't clear.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest
concrete proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the
mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need
to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org
might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects,
terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform
and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design
decisions. The integrity of this record should not lightly be
discarded, particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not
seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me that just
demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are far from
adequate.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long
encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the
correct product, sure in the knowledge that it can be re-componented.

For instance again, last week I was forced to raise
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE
since JDT has gone. hoping that some PDE recipient would know what
the new technology for re-componenting was. Instead a comment
suggests that this is likely a side effect of the 16 year old
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99622 that is still
being worked on.

Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been
moved to archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that
no moved notifications have been sent.

It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL 'platform' projects
should be kept in the

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-19 Thread Ed Willink

A plan. Yes, a plan facilitates discussion that enables craziness to be
avoided.

So where is the Bugzilla that precedes the mad rush to issues?

Unfortunately I cannot participate on gitlab issues since gitlab seems
unable to send notifications to me. I am excluded which may please many.
I do not have the bandwidth to keep a Firefox tab open on every gitlab
issue I care about and to poll them to see what has happened.

Re the respelling of git.eclipse.org as github. I moan but accept that
this may be a necessary evil.

It is the loss of Bugzilla that I regard as unacceptable and a totally
unjustified vandalism.

The plan never considered a new-GIT + new-Wiki + old-Bugzilla option.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 12:56, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was
announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a
done deal and will not be undone.

Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move
them between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's
not so clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues
across repos and organizations isn't clear.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest concrete
proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need
to chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org
might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects,
terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform
and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design
decisions. The integrity of this record should not lightly be
discarded, particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not
seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me that just
demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are far from
adequate.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long
encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the
correct product, sure in the knowledge that it can be re-componented.

For instance
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944 was
recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally plausibly
triaged as an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced back again
to EMF with the option to bounce further to platform. Bugzilla
supports this very cleanly.

Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been moved
to archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that no
moved notifications have been sent.

It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL 'platform' projects
should be kept in the SAME search space; Bugzilla provides this.
Replacements do not. This would seem to apply until some major
disruption such as "e5" may justify the new team starting a new bug
train for the new activity. Until then please keep e3 and e4 together.

For Modeling projects this is even more of an imperative. Sadly
Eclipse and World Modeling is dying so the amount of new work in the
next 20 years is likely to be much less than that in the last twenty.
It is therefore crazy to split the dying embers off from their
predecessors. If/when some magic new team of well funded enthusiasts
comes along to pioneer EMF 3, then let them too choose the
appropriate bug platform for the new initiative. For now please do
not spend so much effort vandalizing out past achievements and
burning our precious development resources.

Is there any long term Eclipse committer who actually wants this
Bugzilla vandalism?

Regards

Ed Willink

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-18 Thread Thomas Watson

I'm sure Ed is just being cute with the remark about JDT being perfect.  But in 
case anyone missed it: the Eclipse project moved to Github.  JDT issues should 
be opened there against the proper repository: https://github.com/eclipse-jdt

We still have much to work out to get our issue reporting process to be better 
at github.  I think at minimum we need the foundation to improve this message 
from bugzilla to at least point to the organization in github where to report 
issues now.

Tom
[https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/102054714?s=280=4]<https://github.com/eclipse-jdt>
Eclipse JDT · GitHub<https://github.com/eclipse-jdt>
Eclipse JDT™ The Eclipse JDT™ project provides the tool plug-ins that implement 
a Java IDE supporting the development of any Java application, including 
Eclipse plug-ins.
github.com


From: cross-project-issues-dev  
on behalf of Ed Willink 
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2022 5:43 AM
To: Cross project issues 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the 
product JDT has been disabled.,

Hi

The PMI form for JDT at

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=JDT

is no longer able to report a bug. It reports "Sorry, entering a bug
into the product JDT has been disabled.,,Please press Back and try again."

Does this mean that JDT is now perfect and will never have any bugs ever
again?

 Regards

 Ed Willink


--
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Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-18 Thread Sravan K Lakkimsetti

Thanks Ed for the response.

Regarding search across organizations, you can use github advanced query 
feature https://github.com/search/advanced
I added 
https://github.com/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+archived%3Afalse+org%3Aeclipse-platform+org%3Aeclipse-jdt+org%3Aeclipse-pde+org%3Aeclipse-equinox+%s<https://github.com/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+archived%3Afalse+org%3Aeclipse-platform+org%3Aeclipse-jdt+org%3Aeclipse-pde+org%3Aeclipse-equinox+%25s>
 as search engine in google chrome to search across organizations. I would say 
it is possible and with one time configuration of browser, search should become 
simpler.

Hope this helps

-Sravan
<https://github.com/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+archived%3Afalse+org%3Aeclipse-platform+org%3Aeclipse-jdt+org%3Aeclipse-pde+org%3Aeclipse-equinox+results>


From: cross-project-issues-dev  
On Behalf Of Ed Merks
Sent: 18 April 2022 17:26
To: cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into 
the product JDT has been disabled.,


Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was 
announced to all committers:

  https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

  
https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

  https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a done 
deal and will not be undone.

Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move them 
between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's not so clear 
where to open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos and 
organizations isn't clear.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/<https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/>
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/<https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/>
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/<https://github.com/eclipse-pde/>
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/<https://github.com/eclipse-platform/>

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much richer, 
allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to  have a discussions, and to suggest concrete 
proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list:

  https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed
On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Hi

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need to chase 
endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org might be 
necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects, terminating Bugzilla is 
madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform and JDT 
for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design decisions. The 
integrity of this record should not lightly be discarded, particularly given 
that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not seeing much progress towards version 6, 
but to me that just demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are 
far from adequate.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long encouraged users 
to report their bug making a best guess at the correct product, sure in the 
knowledge that it can be re-componented.

For instance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944 was 
recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally plausibly triaged as 
an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced back again to EMF with the 
option to bounce further to platform. Bugzilla supports this very cleanly.

For instance again, last week I was forced to raise 
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE since JDT has 
gone. hoping that some PDE recipient would know what the new technology for 
re-componenting was. Instead a comment suggests that this is likely a side 
effect of the 16 year old https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99622 
that is still being worked on.

Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been moved to 
archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that no moved 
notifications have been sent.

It seems essential that ALL bugzillas from ALL 'platform' projects should be 
kept in the SAME search space; Bugzilla provides this. Replacements do not. 
This would seem to apply until some major disruption such as "e5" may justify 
the new team starting a new bug train for the new activity. Until then please 
keep e3 and e4 together.

For Modeling projects this is even more of an imperative. Sadly Eclipse and 
World Modeling is dying so the amount of new work in the next 20 years is 
likely to be much less than that in the last twenty. It is therefore crazy to 
split the dying embers off from t

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-18 Thread Christoph Läubrich

In general its more valuable to create a dedicated issue if there is a
problem in an "upstream", e.g if in Tycho there is an issue with p2 one
could simply open a ticket with p2 describing the actual problem and
linking the tycho issue. In tycho we can then use the ticket to bump
versions once the p2issue is done.

Am 18.04.22 um 13:56 schrieb Ed Merks:

Ed,

The fate of Bugzilla, Gerrit, git.eclipse.org.and wiki.eclipse.org was
announced to all committers:

https://www.eclipse.org/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg01340.html

The announcement included a plan:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Gerrit/Gerrit-and-Bugzilla-deprecation-and-migration-plan

It also included a place for providing feedback:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

The platform has diligently migrated everything to Github, so that's a
done deal and will not be undone.

Certainly there are issues with issues, e.g., you can't really move them
between organizations, when an organization has many repos, it's not so
clear where to open and issue, and how to search for issues across repos
and organizations isn't clear.

Note that the Eclipse TLP has 4 organizations.

https://github.com/eclipse-equinox/
https://github.com/eclipse-jdt/
https://github.com/eclipse-pde/
https://github.com/eclipse-platform/

There are also advantages to issue, e.g., the user interface is much
richer, allowing to create nice documentation with images and examples.

In any case, the place to have a discussions, and to suggest concrete
proposals to mitigate the downsides, is here rather than the mailing list:

https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/issues/678

Regards,
Ed

On 18.04.2022 13:19, Ed Willink wrote:

Surely the fix is to abort this mad vandalism and so avoid the need to
chase endless ripples?

While changing the spelling of git.eclipse.org and wiki.eclipse.org
might be necessary and a manageable pain mitigated by redirects,
terminating Bugzilla is madness.

Bugzilla has been providing an invaluable to service to the platform
and JDT for over 20 years and as such is THE record of many design
decisions. The integrity of this record should not lightly be
discarded, particularly given that Bugzilla is not EOL. Ok it is not
seeing much progress towards version 6, but to me that just
demonstrates that it is adequate. Proposed replacements are far from
adequate.

Eclipse is an aggregate of many projects and so we have long
encouraged users to report their bug making a best guess at the
correct product, sure in the knowledge that it can be re-componented.

For instance https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_activity.cgi?id=578944
was recently plausibly raised as an EMF bug, but then equally
plausibly triaged as an OCL bug. Upon investigation this was bounced
back again to EMF with the option to bounce further to platform.
Bugzilla supports this very cleanly.

For instance again, last week I was forced to raise
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=579718 against PDE since
JDT has gone. hoping that some PDE recipient would know what the new
technology for re-componenting was. Instead a comment suggests that
this is likely a side effect of the 16 year old
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=99622 that is still
being worked on.

Examination of Bug 99622 shows that although JDT bugs have been moved
to archive the active bugs have not yet been migrated and that no
moved notifications have been sent.

For Modeling projects this is even more of an imperative. Sadly
Eclipse and World Modeling is dying so the amount of new work in the
next 20 years is likely to be much less than that in the last twenty.
It is therefore crazy to split the dying embers off from their
predecessors. If/when some magic new team of well funded enthusiasts
comes along to pioneer EMF 3, then let them too choose the appropriate
bug platform for the new initiative. For now please do not spend so
much effort vandalizing out past achievements and burning our precious
development resources.

Is there any long term Eclipse committer who actually wants this
Bugzilla vandalism?

Regards

Ed Willink

On 18/04/2022 00:51, Denis Roy wrote:

We'll address the issue via the HelpDesk issue below.

Agree though, we need some redirects or links at the very least.

Denis

On 2022-04-17 12:21, Stephan Herrmann wrote:

On 17.04.22 12:46, Ed Merks wrote:

The message could be improved by redirecting here:

https://github.com/eclipse-jdt#reporting-issues

It sounds like the PMI needs attention too...

see

Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Sorry, entering a bug into the product JDT has been disabled.,

2022-04-18 Thread Ed Merks