date:20071015

Re: [css-d] layout issue with background image

2007-10-15 Thread Rafael

Kathryn Crutcher wrote:
> I recently asked about how to resolve having both a gradient background and
> a background image. It is now close to what I want but not there yet. 
>
> http://www.grandconnections.com/buttercup/index.htm and
> http://www.grandconnections.com/buttercup/ApplicationStyle.css
>
> There is a center-aligned main area with a flower behind the top right
> corner. I would like to have the main area always in the centre and the same
> amount of flower displayed at the top right but I don't want the horizontal
> scroll bar. The bigger the screen, the more the flower would be revealed.
> Any suggestions?
>   
I would suggest to let the images do the trick. I didn't fully test 
it nor did I put much attention to the details (it was so you could 
grasp the idea), but you can check this...
  http://dev.rsalazar.name/css.d/buttercup.html

> Also, ideally the outside border would be semi-transparent. When I added
> transparency to that div (#inner), the whole content area inherited the
> transparency. Is it possible to limit the transparency to the outer border
> only?
>   
Not that I'm aware of. The element and its children will have, at 
most, that opacity, being able to make it more transparent but unable to 
revert it. Again, as far as I know.

Hope it helps.
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[css-d] widening center content

2007-10-15 Thread Raumin "Ray" Dehghan

Colleagues:

  I want to thank everyone for the help on widening the center
content.  I was able to line things up at least for the time being.

  I'm using static positioning on the template I'm using now.

Sincerely,
Raumin "Ray" Dehghan
West Chicago Public Library
West Chicago, Illinois
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Re: [css-d] php

2007-10-15 Thread jake

PHP Cookbook by O'Reilly

Original Message ---
Colleagues:

  Does anybody have recommendations for a good book and/or websites
for beginning php?

Thanks
Raumin "Ray" Dehghan
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[css-d] layout issue with background image

2007-10-15 Thread Kathryn Crutcher

I recently asked about how to resolve having both a gradient background and
a background image. It is now close to what I want but not there yet. 

http://www.grandconnections.com/buttercup/index.htm and
http://www.grandconnections.com/buttercup/ApplicationStyle.css

There is a center-aligned main area with a flower behind the top right
corner. I would like to have the main area always in the centre and the same
amount of flower displayed at the top right but I don't want the horizontal
scroll bar. The bigger the screen, the more the flower would be revealed.
Any suggestions?
Also, ideally the outside border would be semi-transparent. When I added
transparency to that div (#inner), the whole content area inherited the
transparency. Is it possible to limit the transparency to the outer border
only?

Thank,
Kathryn
 
 
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[css-d] php

2007-10-15 Thread Raumin "Ray" Dehghan

Colleagues:

  Does anybody have recommendations for a good book and/or websites
for beginning php?

Thanks
Raumin "Ray" Dehghan
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[css-d] content div dropping down in IE

2007-10-15 Thread Bruce Gilbert

I am working on the layout of a site which involved a scrolling (when
the content allows it) div that is supposed to align to the right of a
side column (floated left).

here is the url:

http://warriorsarise.org/

appears fine to me in FF and Safari.

in IE the content col (named #content_area in the CSS) drops down
below the side nav (named #announcements). It appears there should be
enough pixel space in the container div, so I am not sure ehat is
going on with IE. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

CSS is located at :

http://warriorsarise.org/CSS/layout.css

-- 
::Bruce::
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Re: [css-d] Links on menu won't go to the bottom

2007-10-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz

> Hi all. I have a site I'm working on right now and need some help with the
menu. The images are doing fine (current and hover) but the links are at >
the top and they're supposed to go on the bottom
> Thanks in advance.

> http://www.5pts-interactive.com/sarantopoulos/index.asp

Try this:
#navbar li a {
color:#225AA0;
display:block;
float:left;
/* remove this height:62px; */
padding:45px 10px 0pt;
text-align:center;
text-decoration:none;
}

HTH
-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com




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Re: [css-d] Links on menu won't go to the bottom

2007-10-15 Thread Jeralyn Merideth

You're a genius!!! It worked! Thank you so much for getting back to me so 
quickly. 

I love this list :-)
 


Jeralyn Merideth
5 Points Interactive
Creative Design Solutions for Web and Print
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




- Original Message 
From: Thierry Koblentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jeralyn Merideth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 4:22:59 PM
Subject: RE: [css-d] Links on menu won't go to the bottom


> Hi all. I have a site I'm working on right now and need some help
 with the
menu. The images are doing fine (current and hover) but the links are
 at >
the top and they're supposed to go on the bottom
> Thanks in advance.

> http://www.5pts-interactive.com/sarantopoulos/index.asp

Try this:
#navbar li a {
color:#225AA0;
display:block;
float:left;
/* remove this height:62px; */
padding:45px 10px 0pt;
text-align:center;
text-decoration:none;
}

HTH
-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com










   

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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Jay Rabe

EXCELLENT review by Tyssen Design. It'll take me a week or so to get through 
it, but thanks much.

   J



> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> And I'm not sure if this URL as been posted recently:
> http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/
> 
> --
> Regards,
> Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
> 

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[css-d] Links on menu won't go to the bottom

2007-10-15 Thread Jeralyn Merideth

Hi all. I have a site I'm working on right now and need some help with the 
menu. The images are doing fine (current and hover) but the links are at the 
top and they're supposed to go on the bottom. I have added padding, 
margin...just about everything I can think of and it doesn't work. I've looked 
at it all day. Maybe someone with a fresh perspective can help me sort this out.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.5pts-interactive.com/sarantopoulos/index.asp

Jeralyn





  

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Re: [css-d] Best option for simple contact form?

2007-10-15 Thread Ray Leventhal

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:38:21 +0530, Rahul Gonsalves replied:
>> I have had good results with this form. It seems well thought out.
>>
>> http://green-beast.com/blog/?page_id=71
> 
> After building my own PHP-driven form that got spammed within a week,
> I came across the form script that Rahul refers to. I agree with
> his recommendation.
My .02:

I'd not seen M. Cherim's solution (link in above quoted text) but it's
not only elegant, well documented and simple, it really does all it says
it will.

I'll be forwarding that to any client who asks about forms and security
and putting it in my bi-monthly design promo/newsletter to clients.

Thank you Rahul, for the link...and, as always, to this list for the
amazing amount of knowledge shared.

Kind regards,
~Ray

-- 
Non scholae sed vitae discimus
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Re: [css-d] Site Check

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Tom Lancaster wrote:
> Dead Css-D,
>
> I would appreciate any comments from people who have time to take a look
> at 
> http://tnhtest.grubbyconsulting.com
>
> especially in browsers other than FF/Ubuntu.
>
> TIA,
>
> Tom
>
>   

Safari 3.0.3
Opera/mac ver 9.23
XP ie 6 & 7 on parallels desktop

The content text-size may be a little small for some @116.5 dpi (might 
not be so much of a problem if the nav did not break at +1/+2.

This appears at the bottom at left rail (compliant browsers & ie 6 and 7):

Array
(
[last_page] => /housing
)

"Sign In" is broken right. (compliant browsers ):

A nuisance markup & css error could be corrected.

IE 7.

Fonts are frozen (and not a real pretty picture when your font sizes are 
ignored).

IE 6.
Fonts are frozen (but a better picture than IE7 when your font sizes are 
ignored).

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Thierry Koblentz

> Please, for your users' sake: use a Javascript drop down menu (but 
> make sure it's one that is fully accessible, and that reverts to a 
> pure-CSS menu when JS is not available). I use TwinHelix Designs'
> excellent FreeStyle Menus (http://www.twinhelix.com/dhtml/fsmenu/)
> personally, but it's donationware for commercial use.

But what about keyboard users? One example I've seen in this thread is not
accessible to keyboard users and the other forces these users to go through
every single item in the menu :-(

The solution below addresses this issue, it also adds some room for error
for people who are a bit mouse-challenged. 
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/
It is not the perfect solution, but it tries to fix most common issues
related to these menus.

And I'm not sure if this URL as been posted recently:
http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/

--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] 3-col layout but with FIXED width centre col

2007-10-15 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Tracy Shorrock wrote:

> I want to achieve this layout 
> freelancealot.co.uk/test/Retreat_Wellness_Centre.jpg
> 
> Which would be easy if I were going for a fixed-width layout, however
>  I want the layout to be full-width (100%), also easy enough, but 
> then I want the left-col and right-col to be liquid and the centre 
> col fixed to the width of the picture and it's border.

Something along these lines, maybe...


regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Rafael

I changed my mind. I just read this article and I don't find it 
useful. I think it lacks in-depth knowledge or he simply didn't took the 
best approach for this topic.

I don't think he's wrong (solely in the point that hybrid menus are 
better), but anyone with some knowledge could think of this article as 
poorly-done or not being objective --he seems to be some sort of JS 
expert. The way he uses to expose his point of view looks more like 
saying CSS is plain wrong, it also shows a lack of understanding of it 
and seems to believe there's no common sense (which could easily be 
applied to both CSS and JS).

Anyway, it's good to have it as a reference, but I do believe people 
should investigate a little more.

Christian Heilmann wrote:
>> I've heard the request for pure CSS drop-down menus quite a lot, and
>> rarely see people getting told what they should about how *bad* they
>> are.
>> 
>
> Cause people don't search archives?
> http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/78948
>   
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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Rafael

Christian Heilmann wrote:
>> I've heard the request for pure CSS drop-down menus quite a lot, and
>> rarely see people getting told what they should about how *bad* they
>> are.
>> 
>
> Cause people don't search archives?
> http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/78948
>   
LOL. I agree, we should search the archives a lot more. On the other 
hand, if the same topics pop up again every now and then, and they came 
to same conclusions, then we're reaffirming this knowledge, right? ;)
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Re: [css-d] Best option for simple contact form?

2007-10-15 Thread Ann Randall

>>> On 10/15/2007 at 11:00 AM, David Hucklesby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| Hi Ann,
| 
| You asked:
| 
|> How about this feedback form?
|> http://www.thesitewizard.com/wizards/feedbackform.shtml 
|>
| 
|  From the sample page, it looks very "old school" - tables and font
| tags.  :(
Yeah, I did my own formatting.

| The other forms mentioned use a technique to defeat spam that
| has a "dummy" field that lead spam bots to fill it in, but humans
| will not. This has proven pretty effective at reducing spam. The
| form you refer to does not have this feature.
Ah, good point. Thanks for pointing this out! This would reduce or
eliminate spam to the site administrator, wouldn't it. Don't know why I
didn't consider that sooner. Thanks.
 
| On other thing you need to guard against - so-called "injection
| attacks." This is quite hard to guard against, but is taken care
| of in Wufoo and in Mike Cherim's solution. I did not look at the
| code in the site you referenced, so cannot advise you on that.
This, actually, was what led me to the sitewizard feedback form. It is
specifically set up to defeat injection attacks, which I was having at
the time.
 
| Cordially,
| David
| --
Thanks for the comments.
--
AnnR
--
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Re: [css-d] BG Image not displaying

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have this: 
> #masthead {
> height:105px;
> width:100%;
> background: #f5f3dc url(bg/header-new-11-rev.gif);
> }
>
> and  ,
>
> The bg image will not display, is there a reason for this?
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Dave
>
>   


Dunno. The image is not on the host/server? The image is on the 
host/sever but the path to it is incorrect? The image is corrupt?
Provide a uri if you are unable to resolve it.
Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Christian Heilmann

> I've heard the request for pure CSS drop-down menus quite a lot, and
> rarely see people getting told what they should about how *bad* they
> are.

Cause people don't search archives?
http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/78948


-- 
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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Re: [css-d] BG Image not displaying

2007-10-15 Thread grovesdavid

Mike A Wrote:

BTW, do you find   works better cross-browser than ?


Hello,

I use both, &nbs; for block element, and  for inline 
elements..

Not sure if it's really necessary, but it's how I do it?

Kind Regards

Dave

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Re: [css-d] CSS Flyout Menu Fails in IE7

2007-10-15 Thread Al Marvel

Georg,
Thank you for the quick response, informative answer, and stacking
resolution. I will also look into the font-sizes.
I appreciate your time and effort in providing the coded changes. This was
my first listing, and it has been a very positive experience.

Thanks again,
Al

-Original Message-
From: Gunlaug Sørtun [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 12:47 AM
To: Al Marvel
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS Flyout Menu Fails in IE7

Al Marvel wrote:
> I investigated several search hits throughout the Web discussing
> similar problems with IE, z-index, and menus, but many are dated or 
> don't exactly match this problem. I'm asking for assistance in 
> determining if my design is flawed, or if it definitely cannot work 
> in IE7.

> http://marvelka.com/flyout.html

IE/win (any version) can't re-stack anything from within absolute or
relative positioned containers, and '#sidebar .inner' & '#sidebar .outer'
are absolute positioned. That old IE problem hasn't changed for the last 8-9
years, so earlier notes on it are probably pretty accurate.

Reordering and/or adding elements to source-code will only move the problem
around, and the flyouts on one or the other side will get hidden in IE7.

IE6 (and older) doesn't support :hover on anything but anchors, so it won't
show flyouts on either side without help of a 'whatever:hover.htc'[1] file
or something. IE6 also has its 
'auto-expansion' bug (not respecting given dimensions) that may break 
the line-up.

As with most CSS menus: it definitely doesn't work without a mouse or
similar, in any browser.

It is fine as a demo-case for how to fix such a stacking-problems in IE7
though... 
(I have commented necessary style-changes in the page-head.)

I have "un"-positioned the containers - floated them in place, and change
z-index - re-stack the relevant list-item - to 1 level higher than the
surroundings - only on :hover. That lifts the relevant flyout visibly on
top, regardless of side and source-order.

Note: pixels for font-sizes and line-heights don't work well other than to
potentially break your page under certain conditions in certain browsers,
and the one you have problems with is one of them.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no

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[css-d] Site Check

2007-10-15 Thread Tom Lancaster

Dead Css-D,

I would appreciate any comments from people who have time to take a look
at 
http://tnhtest.grubbyconsulting.com

especially in browsers other than FF/Ubuntu.

TIA,

Tom

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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread Kit Grose

G'day Rafael,

On 15/10/2007, at 2:01 PM, Rafael wrote:

> I think this is yet another religious topic. Accessibility on  
> most JS menus (actually all I've seen so far) is inexistent, some  
> of them are so poorly done than they even throw an error on this or  
> that browser and the whole menu stops working. If you ask Joe Clark  
> about his opinion... maybe he would trash both of them :)

I think in the authentic meaning of the word 'Accessibility', well- 
produced JS menus far outshine CSS-only ones, if only for point 2 of  
my previous email (introducing delays before collapsing submenus). As  
for handling errors and browser support, of course that's all down to  
implementation (any good JS is totally unobtrusive and so only users  
with support get the advantages of the Javascript).

> Personally, I think CSS menus are better (or "less bad") than  
> JS menus. In both cases you must know what you're doing and have  
> accessibility on mind (and hoy many of us do really do this?). If  
> you ask me, a combination of both is the best solution, which means  
> a lot more work than current / typical implementations --and the  
> client's can't see a reason to spend on that, and the guy doing the  
> front-end has a lot of things to think on before spending some  
> "extra time" on the "minor details".

I like to think I keep accessibility on the mind throughout every  
phase of a frontend design job. I do testing in text browsers, and in  
upwards of 10 desktop browsers (including the big four; IE 6, IE 7,  
Firefox 2 and Safari 2).
When you say "a combination of both", that's exactly the behaviour  
I'm talking about when I say 'Javascript menus'. I don't believe in  
pure Javascript implementations of anything. It must be loaded  
unobtrusively as a supplement (rather than replacement) of CSS-based  
menus.

As a full-time 'frontend guy', navigation is around about number 3 on  
my list of priorities when putting together a website; I think part  
of calling ourselves professionals is treating every part of each job  
as worth our time. Plus drop-downs tend to feature in around 90% of  
the designs our Art Director puts together, so getting it right once  
helps us with subsequent jobs.

> I myself should be redoing part of a menu I'm planning on  
> using, but is for a personal site so the time I have spent on it  
> is... a message I sent to this list (and that Georg kindly  
> replied), that's all. Oh, well... real life again. In case you're  
> curious, the link I sent was
>   http://dev.rsalazar.name/css.d/menu.html
> By the way, the best solution for the accessibility issue I asked  
> help for seems to be a re-implementation of the CSS "behavioral"  
> part combined with a little JS to make things look better (ironic?  
> yes, it is).

I like the way that's looking, but it shows off exactly what problems  
pure CSS menus always (necessarily) show: say you expect another  
level of navigation to drop down, or you're just not particularly  
good with a mouse. You go to Groupo D, Groupo D.2, Enlace D.2.a and  
slide your mouse off the bottom (just a pixel) and instantly all  
progress is lost and you have to start from the top-level again.

This is more important still when you have many items in each menu  
level (since there is more cognitive thought required to decide a  
menu item).

> Here are some opinions, if you mind...
>
> Kit Grose wrote:
>> G'day Jay,
>>
>> I've heard the request for pure CSS drop-down menus quite a lot, and
>> rarely see people getting told what they should about how *bad* they
>> are.
>>
> Can you say better things on JS menus? Aren't basically the  
> same things?

No! Javascript adds some more desktop-level comforts to the way  
things work (like menu hide-delays).

>> CSS is designed as a method for styling visible items and laying them
>> out relative to one-another. Drop-down menus are behavioural, and
>> thus should be taken care of with Javascript (not Java; there's a
>> huge difference, worth noting). Of course, accessibility means
>> keeping in place a series of fall-backs which allow non-JS enabled
>> users to view the list.
>>
> So would CSS fall-backs to do exactly the same.

Yes, but they're fall-backs. Just as the fall-back for no CSS is a  
simple nested unordered list, we have to draw the line somewhere. We  
lose some usability, but it still works.

> It's hard (for me, at least) to agree on using JS solely on the  
> fact that their behavioral and, therefore, should be done with JS.  
> It's kind of the same as saying that changing the colors is a  
> behavior, not a style (which would be correct), or saying that  
> pseudo-elements and pseudo-classes have no reason to exist, since  
> they're referring to a behavior or somehow altering the DOM.

Changing the colours based on user interaction (like hover/mouseover)  
is indeed a behaviour, but unless we need animation, we're able to  
hand that job off to the styleshee

Re: [css-d] should I worry about the warnings?

2007-10-15 Thread Jukka K. Korpela

Ross Hulford wrote:

> My CSS validates, however I get loads of warning
- -
> Generally they are "Same colors for color and background-color in two
> contexts"

That's a somewhat odd and confusing warnings. I'd suggest using the 
interface at
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ with "More Options" clicked and 
"Warnings" set to "All". Then you get messages like

"You have no color set (or color is set to transparent) but you have set a 
background-color. Make sure that cascading of colors keeps the text 
reasonably legible."

That's somewhat tough too, but makes more sense. You need to understand the 
cascade in order to see the point.*) Or you might decide just to take the 
expert advice and follow the simple rule of always setting background, in 
the same rule, when you set color, and vice versa. This should also remove 
the warnings you have seen.

Quick intro:
Suppose a user style sheet contains
* { color: white; background: black; }
What will happen in an author style sheet contains, say,
#foobar { background-color: white; }
?

Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ 

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[css-d] 3-col layout but with FIXED width centre col

2007-10-15 Thread Tracy Shorrock

Hi,

Okay, here goes! I want to achieve this layout 
freelancealot.co.uk/test/Retreat_Wellness_Centre.jpg

Which would be easy if I were going for a fixed-width layout, however I 
want the layout to be full-width (100%), also easy enough, but then I 
want the left-col and right-col to be liquid and the centre col fixed 
to the width of the picture and it's border. Am I being too optimistic 
here... or maybe missing an obvious solution to the layout requirement. 
 From the point of SEO, I'd like the left-col and right-col to appear 
first, if possible - I'm thinking of the markup looking similar to 
below:





 text  <-- liquid
 text  <-- liquid


 main image  <-- fixed-width (max-width?)

 ...
 
 



Any help/pointers much appreciated - I seem to be having a brain freeze 
on this one.

Thanks,

Tracy

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Re: [css-d] Best option for simple contact form?

2007-10-15 Thread Ann Randall

>>> On 10/14/2007 at 3:59 PM, David Hucklesby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| Hi Jenn and Alison,
| 
|> On 12-Oct-07, at 11:42 PM, Allison Kelly wrote:
|>
|>> I need to build a very simple email form for a contact page.
|>>
| 
| On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:38:21 +0530, Rahul Gonsalves replied:
|>
|> I have had good results with this form. It seems well thought out.
|> http://green-beast.com/blog/?page_id=71 
| 
| After building my own PHP-driven form that got spammed within a
week,
| I came across the form script that Rahul refers to. I agree with
| his recommendation.
| --
| 
|> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:42:15 -0700, Jenn Mears wrote:
|> Hi David,
|> I have been looking into web form handling companies for a client
that uses 
| a hosting
|> company which doesn't offer cgi-bins(who knew?)  I came across a
company 
| called Web
|> Form Buddy and they offered a pretty good range of services for $40
per 
| year.  They
|> seemed like the best company I could find after quite a search, but
I 
| couldn't find any
|> online reviews about them.  Have you heard anything about them?
|> http://www.web-form-buddy.com/ 
|>
| 
| Sorry, no. I am fortunate in that someone I helped "paid" me by
| giving me free hosting. :) So I have little experience in that
regard.
| 
| Cordially,
| David
| --
How about this feedback form?
http://www.thesitewizard.com/wizards/feedbackform.shtml 

AnnR
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Re: [css-d] em or %, pros and cons?

2007-10-15 Thread Stan Baptista

> PS FWIW, for a number of reasons (archive maintenance/and reading logic among 
> them) it may be best to reply below rather than above those to whom you reply 
> on this list.

Ah yes, sorry about that. It's all gmail's fault;-)
(http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=GmailAndCssDiscuss)

-- 
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State of Hawaii DAGS/ICSD
eGovernment Team Specialist
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Re: [css-d] em or %, pros and cons?

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Stan Baptista wrote:
>> Fixed with layouts are appropriate in some instances.
>> 
>
> How have you decided between fixed and fluid?
>
> On 10/15/07, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Magnus Fahlström wrote:
>> 
>>> 1. Could you please explain why you choose one over the other?
>>> 2. Only for font-size or for the complete layout?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Magnus Fahlström
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> There are, in my twisted little mind, no hard and fast rules about much
>> of anything including either or both of your points.
>>
>> My /personal/ preference is to use percent throughout for setting
>> fonts-- I just find it easier, more reliable, and more consistent
>> cross-browser. But sure, no problems with em based fonts as long as you
>> set percent on html to kill the em font-scaling bug in IE.
>>
>> When it comes to layouts, again it is a personal choice borne of my own
>> experience. I prefer layouts that use the entire arsenal available-- a
>> combination using percent/em/pixel combined with min/max width.
>> Fixed with layouts are appropriate in some instances. Percent based
>> layouts work well as long as you mind IE's rounding errors (and I prefer
>> to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check); and em based layouts work
>> fine (I prefer to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check);
>>
>> It is your call.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> ~dL
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>
>   

As previously stated, when it comes to layouts, again it is a personal choice 
borne of /my/ own
experience. I prefer layouts that use the entire arsenal available-- a
combination using percent/em/pixel combined with min/max width.

There are, nevertheless, situations where a fixed width layout is an 
appropriate solution. This depends on the situation, the content, and the 
problem at hand. For example, if the content is made up of large images (or 
contains other elements that must be of a fixed width) 
/and/ one does not wish to draw an horizontal scroll bar (or drop floats in 
narrow windows), a fixed width layout /might/ be a logical choice. Name of the 
game,/for me/, is to maintain a war chest and to pull weapons of choice from it 
determined by what will win the battle-- rather than a preconceived notion that 
any one layout resolves all given issues for all situations. 

These, of course, are personal opinions. How you (or anyone else) "plays war" 
is up to you...

Best,

~dL

PS FWIW, for a number of reasons (archive maintenance/and reading logic among 
them) it may be best to reply below rather than above those to whom you reply 
on this list.

-- 
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Re: [css-d] :: ie 6 & 7 :: collapse on click & bounce on scroll ::

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Bruno Fassino wrote:
> On 10/15/07, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Bruno, in my versions of IE 6 and 7 (parallels/os x 10.4.10) when using
>> either the scroll bar /or/ mouse wheel to vertically scroll to the very
>> bottom of the footer, that the background images bounce (like striking
>> the keys of a piano) and some text bounces vertically. This noticeable
>> on the left third of the page.
>>
>> 
 [1] 
 
>
> It doesn't happen in my (native) IE6 and IE7 on XP.
>
>
>   
>> Regards,
>>
>> ~dL
>> 
>
> Best regards,
> Bruno
>
>   




That is /good/ news. As always, thank you for your time and effort on my 
behalf...

Best,

~david

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Re: [css-d] em or %, pros and cons?

2007-10-15 Thread Stan Baptista

> Fixed with layouts are appropriate in some instances.

How have you decided between fixed and fluid?

On 10/15/07, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Magnus Fahlström wrote:
> > 1. Could you please explain why you choose one over the other?
> > 2. Only for font-size or for the complete layout?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Magnus Fahlström
> >
> >
> >
>
> There are, in my twisted little mind, no hard and fast rules about much
> of anything including either or both of your points.
>
> My /personal/ preference is to use percent throughout for setting
> fonts-- I just find it easier, more reliable, and more consistent
> cross-browser. But sure, no problems with em based fonts as long as you
> set percent on html to kill the em font-scaling bug in IE.
>
> When it comes to layouts, again it is a personal choice borne of my own
> experience. I prefer layouts that use the entire arsenal available-- a
> combination using percent/em/pixel combined with min/max width.
> Fixed with layouts are appropriate in some instances. Percent based
> layouts work well as long as you mind IE's rounding errors (and I prefer
> to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check); and em based layouts work
> fine (I prefer to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check);
>
> It is your call.
>
> Best,
>
> ~dL
>
>
> --
> http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
>
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-- 
Stan Baptista
State of Hawaii DAGS/ICSD
eGovernment Team Specialist
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Re: [css-d] :: ie 6 & 7 :: collapse on click & bounce on scroll ::

2007-10-15 Thread Bruno Fassino

On 10/15/07, David Laakso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bruno, in my versions of IE 6 and 7 (parallels/os x 10.4.10) when using
> either the scroll bar /or/ mouse wheel to vertically scroll to the very
> bottom of the footer, that the background images bounce (like striking
> the keys of a piano) and some text bounces vertically. This noticeable
> on the left third of the page.
>
> >> [1] 

It doesn't happen in my (native) IE6 and IE7 on XP.


> Regards,
>
> ~dL

Best regards,
Bruno

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[css-d] BG Image not displaying

2007-10-15 Thread grovesdavid

Hello,

I have this: 
#masthead {
height:105px;
width:100%;
background: #f5f3dc url(bg/header-new-11-rev.gif);
}

and  ,

The bg image will not display, is there a reason for this?

Kind Regards

Dave
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Re: [css-d] :: ie 6 & 7 :: collapse on click & bounce on scroll ::

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Bruno Fassino wrote:
> On 10/15/07, David Laakso wrote:
>   
>> In this photoshop nightmare [1] the slideshow (top right col) collapses
>> in IE 6 & 7 when any horizontal nav link is clicked (in compliant
>> browsers clicking 'home' does it).
>> 
>
>
>   

O.K. I understand the js fix you provided and will modify the script 
accordingly this afternoon. Thank you!

>   
>> And IE 6 & 7 the left col is exhibiting vertical bounce on a full scroll.
>> 
>
> The left column seems stable to me, probably I haven't understood the
> problem, what do you mean with "full scroll"?
>   

Bruno, in my versions of IE 6 and 7 (parallels/os x 10.4.10) when using 
either the scroll bar /or/ mouse wheel to vertically scroll to the very 
bottom of the footer, that the background images bounce (like striking 
the keys of a piano) and some text bounces vertically. This noticeable 
on the left third of the page.

>
>   
>> [1] 
>> 
>
>
> Best regards,
> Bruno
>
>   

Regards,

~dL

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[css-d] Drop down menu and float problems

2007-10-15 Thread Lyn Williams

Could somebody please offer me some advice to solve problems I have.

The first being a drop down menu I have developed won't display the  
appropriate links. I seems the the drop down works but the links  
won't appear.

the second problem is I'm trying to float six different div elements  
side to side but after the fourth element the next two clears to the  
bottom of the page.

You can see the page here: http://www.irn2000.com/public/   
(dropdown => the Information tab)

Many Thanks. Lyn
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Re: [css-d] pure CSS drop-down menu - Sperling

2007-10-15 Thread tedd

At 3:12 AM + 10/15/07, Jay Rabe wrote:
>This is certainly a nice-looking solution, however I'm curious about 
>one thing. If I put my cursor tip in a top-level box, it drops down 
>the sub-menu just fine, but the highlighting in the top-level box is 
>only "on" if the tip of the cursor is somewhere above (ie 
>vertically) the midline of the box. Clearly not a functional issue, 
>but just curious.
>
>  > http://sperling.com/examples/menuh/

Jay:

First, thanks for looking.

Second, your observation is correct -- but only for menus that have sub-menus.

Third, I am clueless as to what causes that effect. It seems that 
adding a background image to the menu causes the hover state to act 
oddly.

This can be seen in both the top-parent menu, where it preforms as 
you describe, and also in the sub parent-menus where the effect is 
noted immediately about the image (the hover state turns off at the 
image).

This is one of two css questions I have that have never been answered.

Cheers,

tedd
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Re: [css-d] em or %, pros and cons?

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Magnus Fahlström wrote:
> 1. Could you please explain why you choose one over the other?
> 2. Only for font-size or for the complete layout?
>
> Thanks
> Magnus Fahlström
>
>
>   

There are, in my twisted little mind, no hard and fast rules about much 
of anything including either or both of your points.

My /personal/ preference is to use percent throughout for setting 
fonts-- I just find it easier, more reliable, and more consistent 
cross-browser. But sure, no problems with em based fonts as long as you 
set percent on html to kill the em font-scaling bug in IE.

When it comes to layouts, again it is a personal choice borne of my own 
experience. I prefer layouts that use the entire arsenal available-- a 
combination using percent/em/pixel combined with min/max width.
Fixed with layouts are appropriate in some instances. Percent based 
layouts work well as long as you mind IE's rounding errors (and I prefer 
to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check); and em based layouts work 
fine (I prefer to hold the horizontal scroll bar in check);

It is your call.

Best,

~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] :: ie 6 & 7 :: collapse on click & bounce on scroll ::

2007-10-15 Thread Bruno Fassino

On 10/15/07, David Laakso wrote:
> In this photoshop nightmare [1] the slideshow (top right col) collapses
> in IE 6 & 7 when any horizontal nav link is clicked (in compliant
> browsers clicking 'home' does it).

I suspect an interference between of the menu js and the slide show.
The behaviors related to the dropdown are attached to all LI in the
document, including the ones in the slide show. And when an element of
the dropdown gets focus the cleanUp function alters the className of
all LI, again including the slideshow. I would change the occurrences
of:
var LI = document.getElementsByTagName("li");
with
var me = document.getElementById("menu");
var LI = me.getElementsByTagName("li");
so to affect only the LI inside the drop down menu.
(The difference in behavior between IE and other browsers is caused by
the use of firstChild and white-space interpretation in building the
DOM.)

> And IE 6 & 7 the left col is exhibiting vertical bounce on a full scroll.

The left column seems stable to me, probably I haven't understood the
problem, what do you mean with "full scroll"?

> [1] 

Best regards,
Bruno

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Re: [css-d] should I worry about the warnings?

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

Ross Hulford wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My CSS validates, however I get loads of warning
>
> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwallacewhittle.com&warning=1&profile=css21&usermedium=all
>
>
>
> Generally they are "Same colors for color and background-color in two 
> contexts"
>
>
> Should I be looking to eliminate the warnings if so how because I want the 
> text and the container div to be white?
>
>
> R. 
>
>
>   


Generally, one can ignore machine check "warnings," with the important 
caveat you have gone to the ends of earth testing your site 
cross-browser to make sure there is no issue whatsoever.

Best,

~dL




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[css-d] :: ie 6 & 7 :: collapse on click & bounce on scroll ::

2007-10-15 Thread David Laakso

In this photoshop nightmare [1] the slideshow (top right col) collapses 
in IE 6 & 7 when any horizontal nav link is clicked (in compliant 
browsers clicking 'home' does it).

And IE 6 & 7 the left col is exhibiting vertical bounce on a full scroll.

What to do?

[1] 

css embedded

Thanks,

~dL


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[css-d] should I worry about the warnings?

2007-10-15 Thread Ross Hulford

Hi,

My CSS validates, however I get loads of warning

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwallacewhittle.com&warning=1&profile=css21&usermedium=all



Generally they are "Same colors for color and background-color in two 
contexts"


Should I be looking to eliminate the warnings if so how because I want the 
text and the container div to be white?


R. 


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Re: [css-d] IE6 3 column problem

2007-10-15 Thread Christian Kirchhoff

Thank you so much, Georg, I really appreciate your help.

Best regards,

Christian 
Directmedia Publishing GmbH · Möckernstraße 68 · 10965 Berlin
www.digitale-bibliothek.de
AG Berlin-Charlottenburg · HR B 58002 · USt.Id. DE173211737
Geschäftsführer: Ralf Szymanski · Erwin Jurschitza
 

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Gunlaug Sørtun [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Gesendet: Samstag, 13. Oktober 2007 04:25
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Betreff: Re: [css-d] IE6 3 column problem
> 
> >> Let me see your IE6-stylesheet then, as I'm too busy to locate 'CC'
> >>  files on other people's sites. I never use any.
> 
> > 
> http://www.digitale-bibliothek.de/Downloads/CSS-Test/zenoIE60Fixes.css
> >  (additionally used by IE6)
> 
> Effect depends on specificity, and therefore _where_ those 
> styles are added.
> 
> Adding some "importance"...
> 
> * html .zenoCOFooter {
>float: left;
>width: 95%!important;
>margin-right: -99%!important;
> }
> 
> ...will keep IE6 under control until the window becomes so 
> narrow that it can't hide its 'auto-expansion' bugs anymore.
> 
> regards
>   Georg
> --
> http://www.gunlaug.no
> 

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[css-d] em or %, pros and cons?

2007-10-15 Thread Magnus Fahlström

1. Could you please explain why you choose one over the other?
2. Only for font-size or for the complete layout?

Thanks
Magnus Fahlström

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Re: [css-d] Pure CSS drop-down menus aren't good

2007-10-15 Thread david

Rafael wrote:
> I think this is yet another religious topic. Accessibility on most 
> JS menus (actually all I've seen so far) is inexistent, some of them are 
> so poorly done than they even throw an error on this or that browser and 
> the whole menu stops working. If you ask Joe Clark about his opinion... 
> maybe he would trash both of them :)
> 
> Personally, I think CSS menus are better (or "less bad") than JS 
> menus. In both cases you must know what you're doing and have 
> accessibility on mind (and hoy many of us do really do this?). If you 
> ask me, a combination of both is the best solution, which means a lot 
> more work than current / typical implementations --and the client's 
> can't see a reason to spend on that, and the guy doing the front-end has 
> a lot of things to think on before spending some "extra time" on the 
> "minor details".

Javascript is a security threat to visitors' computers. CSS is not. Not 
a "religious issue" but a well documented fact.

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] Nav broken in IE6, but not...

2007-10-15 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Blake wrote:

> I have a strange IE6 issue where the #nav a's seems to have collapsed
>  into a vertical list of block As, seemingly ignoring the float: 
> left; applied to the LIs...
> 
> http://svitavice.blakehaswell.com/

Caused by the 'display: block' on the anchor.

You can add...
* html #nav li a {display: inline-block;}
...and get a more cooperative IE6.
('display: inline-block' acts as a 'hasLayout' trigger btw.)

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Nav broken in IE6, but not...

2007-10-15 Thread Blake

Hi List,

I have a strange IE6 issue where the #nav a's seems to have collapsed
into a vertical list of block As, seemingly ignoring the float: left;
applied to the LIs...

http://svitavice.blakehaswell.com/

However (!!), this is not happening on the English version of the site
which is using image replacement and applying a width to the As.

http://svitavice.blakehaswell.com/en/

Any help would be appreciated.

Lost in a world of IE6 bugs I'd forgotten about,
Blake

-- 
Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/
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