Re: [css-d] Up Margin - where is it?

2009-03-19 Thread Divya Manian



On 3/18/09 9:45 PM, Pablo Augusto em...@pabloaugusto.com wrote:

 Hello,
 
 I`m transforming this site: http://www.caarj.org.br/ to wordpress.
 Its all 95% done, now im fixing details.
 
 Theres a up space (white above logo) i just look everywere to remove it,
 margin, padding, etc,
 but have no sucess, can anyone gime a help?
 __
here:

#Header h1 { 
background-attachment: scroll;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-position: 50% 0;
background-color: transparent;
background-image: 
url(http://www.caarj.org.br/wp-content/themes/CAARJ-0.1/img/logo.png;);
height: 92px;
text-indent: -999em;
width: 800px;
}


The background position of the image in h1 is specified at 50% 4px remove
the 4px and it will not show the space above the logo.

 


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Re: [css-d] box goes down the bottom of the page

2009-03-19 Thread ray
Thank for your reply. But why this page look good on FF and IE7?

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:35 PM, David Laakso
da...@chelseacreekstudio.comwrote:

 ray wrote:

 Hi, All

 Please check http://www.soundbowl.com on IE6. You'll found that the main
 content goes down the bottom of the page. It's OK on IE7 and FF. I found
 this kind of problem on IE6 for many times. It must be caused by a bug of
 IE6. Can somebody give me some hint?

 Thanks





 * html #mainContent {display:inline;}
 Snaps it in place. Too wide. Tweaking the margins may be needed as well.

 --

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 http://chelseacreekstudio.com/


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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Bobby Jack

--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Rob Emenecker list-s...@hairydogdigital.com wrote:

 I am looking for a few good web locations that explain and
 clarify the
 differences between EMs and PERCENTS

Rob, do you mean:

a) For font sizing
b) For layout
c) In general (i.e. including both the above)

There are a few quite considerable differences if you're talking anything more 
than basic syntax.

- Bobby
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Virgilio Quilario
 Hi all,

 I am looking for a few good web locations that explain and clarify the
 differences between EMs and PERCENTS, and recommendations for using one or
 the other. I do not want the W3C specification, I know where that is. I am
 looking for practical information in the real world application of one
 versus the other.

 Thanks!

 ...Rob


Probably you are looking for this
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=EmVsPercentWidths

Cheers,

Virgil
http://www.jampmark.com
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Re: [css-d] unremovable img margin?

2009-03-19 Thread Virgilio Quilario
 Hello all,

 thanks much in advance for your help.

 could you please take a look at this trial html file:

 http://www.giuseppecraparottacv.co.uk/doubts/press.html

 As you can see the images are separated by a bottom / right margin.

 - Is it related to the fact that images are *inline elements*?

 - Is it any way to eliminate it which is not making the images *block
 elements*?

 As you can see I included  * {padding:0; margin:0;}  among the styles.

 cheers,
 Giuseppe

that is caused by white spaces in between img tags.
put them like this
img src=covers/bot1.gif/img src=covers/bot1.gif/img
src=covers/bot1.gif/img src=covers/bot1.gif/

virgil
http://www.jampmark.com
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Re: [css-d] Image Slices

2009-03-19 Thread Christopher R
Alright take a look the page breaks in IE6 and FireFox but not in IE7 in 
otherwords if you view the page in IE7, that is how it should look
when you view in FireFox or IE6 you'll see it breaks.
http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/site/imagepage4.html


On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 12:07 AM Holly Bergevin ho...@communitymx.com wrote:
From: Christopher R majes...@thecreativesheep.ca
 
  As you can see the image is still not in order it's like a jigsaw puzzle on 
  the page
 
   http://www.thecreativesheep.ca/site/imagepage3.html
 
 Following are some suggestions that may, or may not be what you're looking 
 for.
 
 As was suggested, if you want the images to be the size specified in the 
 HTML, you should resize them in a graphics program rather than letting 
 browsers do the work.
 
 That being said, here are my suggestions.
 
 Remove all width and height attributes in the HTML for those three images. 
 Alter the CSS as follows - 
 
 #logo {   
   background-color: transparent;
   /*top: -7px;*/ /* remove */
   left: 109px; /* change value */
   /*width: 850px;*/ /* remove */
   height: 250px;
   position: relative;
   text-align: center;
   z-index: 1;
 }
 logo img {vertical-align: bottom; display:block;} /* remove - it's not doing 
 anything anyway, despite the spelling correction */
 
 #logo img {float: left;} /* add */
 
 .navigationpanel {
   background-image: url(navgraphic.png);
   background-repeat: no-repeat;
   top: -20px; /* change */
   left: -250px; /* change*/
   /*width: 400px; /* remove */
   /*height: 75px; /* remove */
   position: relative;
 }
 
 Perhaps these suggestions will give you a new place to start from.
 
 ~holly 
  

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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread David Laakso
Rob Emenecker wrote:
 Hi all,
  
 I am looking for a few good web locations that explain and clarify the
 differences between EMs and PERCENTS, and recommendations for using one or
 the other. I do not want the W3C specification, I know where that is. I am
 looking for practical information in the real world application of one
 versus the other. 
  
 Thanks!
  
 ...Rob
  

   

Why limit yourself to one or the other :-) ? Need of the moment 
determines structure-- pixel, em, or percent. And I suppose, if push 
came to shove,  you could go for broke and employ the best advantages of 
pixel, em, and percent widths all within the same layout structure. 
Georg Sortun [1] seems to pull it off quite well.
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/toc_7a.html


-- 

A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming.

http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] box goes down the bottom of the page

2009-03-19 Thread ray
It seems it is not because the double margin bug of IE6. Because the the
floated boxes have no margin at all.

Thanks

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:19 PM, David Laakso
da...@chelseacreekstudio.comwrote:

 ray wrote:

 Thank for your reply. But why this page look good on FF and IE7?




 http://www.soundbowl.com on IE6.



 Because compliant browsers, and to a lessor extent, IE/7 support more of
 the CSS 2.1 specifications[1]. IE/6 is hopelessly stuck in the dark ages.
 This list is filled daily, and has been for many years, with questions such
 as yours regarding all versions of IE and their lack of CSS support compared
 with compliant browsers.
 Your page and the float drop seemed to respond to IE/6s fix for its margin
 doubling bug [2]. Someone else on the list might have provided a different
 workaround. IE is notorious for its hundreds of weird bugs and oddities [3].

 [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
 [2] http://www.positioniseverything.net/
 [3] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Rob Emenecker
 Why limit yourself to one or the other :-) ? 

LOL. I'm not. I just want a solid understanding of how EM vs. PERCENT is
them, so that if I am using one, the other, or a mixture, I don't lose my
mind when results are not what I expect.

I think Tim's concise explanation helped with that understanding.


Rob Emenecker @ Hairy Dog Digital
www.hairydogdigital.com
 
Please note: Return e-mail messages are only accepted from discussion groups
that this e-mail address subscribes to. All other messages are automatically
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[css-d] text wrapping problem

2009-03-19 Thread Bilgehan Maraş
Hi,

I have a problem with text wrapping in list elements. I uploaded a
test page at http://www.film.com.tr/listtest.html . On firefox and
safari everything is fine but as usual there is a problem with IE 6
and IE7. IE wraps the text strangely. A picture is thousand words, i
put actual implementation on the top and two screenshots from firefox
and IE at the bottom. Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bilgehan
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Kenny Leu
D'oh!

I should've read that link above before posting...

To redeem myself:
EM:
- always relative to font size
- fonts affect absolute widths of things set with EM! (e.g. could cause
horizontal scroll)
- however, relative widths are not affected.
e.g. if a particular sentence fits all on one line, it will always fit on
one line even if the font is changed to be very large.

PERCENT:
- always relative to containing block (could be parent font as well)
- this means that containing blocks can get very crowded.





On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Kenny Leu kenny@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all!

 I'm a long-time stalker of this thread, first-time poster.  :)

 I'm very curious about this question as well...it was always my
 understanding that, analogously,  em -- decimal  percent -- percent.  Is
 there a subtlety that I'm missing?

 Kenny




 On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:31 AM, David Laakso 
 da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote:

 Rob Emenecker wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I am looking for a few good web locations that explain and clarify the
  differences between EMs and PERCENTS, and recommendations for using one
 or
  the other. I do not want the W3C specification, I know where that is. I
 am
  looking for practical information in the real world application of one
  versus the other.
 
  Thanks!
 
  ...Rob
 
 
 

 Why limit yourself to one or the other :-) ? Need of the moment
 determines structure-- pixel, em, or percent. And I suppose, if push
 came to shove,  you could go for broke and employ the best advantages of
 pixel, em, and percent widths all within the same layout structure.
 Georg Sortun [1] seems to pull it off quite well.
 http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/toc_7a.html


 --

 A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming.

 http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Climis, Tim

 I think Tim's concise explanation helped with that understanding.

I didn't send that to the entire list, because the website that got sent out 
right before I finished it said pretty much the same thing, but if it was that 
helpful, I'll share it with everyone.

Rules of thumb:

em is like a variable that means font-size. if the base font-size is 16px 
(default) then 2em is 32px, .5em is 8px.

The difference is what the percentage is relative to.

For font-sizing, the percent is relative to the font-size, so they both do the 
exact same thing. Font-size:2em is the same as font-size:200%. Use which ever 
you like.  It doesn't matter.

For box sizing, em is still the font-size.  But percent is relative to the 
container.  If you want the box size to change with the font use ems. (ex. if 
you have a box that you want to always display 3 lines of text then set it to 
3.6em -- the height of a line is generally 1.2em, unless you specifically set 
it to be otherwise)

If you want the box to change size with the screen, use percents (height:50% is 
50% of the parent container - sometimes the window, sometimes something else, 
never the font-size)

---Tim

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Re: [css-d] box goes down the bottom of the page

2009-03-19 Thread David Laakso
ray wrote:
 It seems it is not because the double margin bug of IE6. Because the the
 floated boxes have no margin at all.

 Thanks

   
 http://www.soundbowl.com on IE6.
 

Someone else may provide a better working solution for the center panel 
float drop than this in IE/6:
http://www.chelseacreekstudio.com/ca/cssd/bol.htm
Centering it was left to you...

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Re: [css-d] text wrapping problem

2009-03-19 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Bilgehan Maras, wrote:

 http://www.film.com.tr/listtest.html

 On firefox and safari everything is fine but as usual there is a 
 problem with IE 6 and IE7. IE wraps the text strangely.

Try adding...
li a {white-space : nowrap;}

Of course: your example doesn't look anything like your screenshots show
in any browsers at my end, since alignment is affected by font resizing
in browsers.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Bobby Jack

--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Michael Stevens bigm...@bigmikes.org wrote:

 So, is it uncommon, or bad practice, to use both in this
 situation?
 
 {height: 7.2em; width: 20%;}

More and more, I find myself using the two in various combinations. It gets 
particularly interesting if you throw pixels into the mix (which *can* still 
have valid uses!) and/or combine different measurements with, for example, 
width, min-width, and max-width.

Generally speaking, I think the following are relevant points:

1. Line lengths are less legible if they are too short or too long; this 
suggests some level of box-sizing related to font-size, i.e. ems.

2. That's not to say the line length cannot vary; min-width and max-width in 
ems can still achieve readable copy with varying font sizes.

3. Horizontal scrolling is BAD. Unrestricted em-sizing tends to lead to 
horizontal scrolling, but this can be mitigated (esp. on the good browsers) 
with max-width as a percentatge - e.g. 100%

4. Users with v. wide screen resolutions might like to take advantage of the 
fact. This suggests some level of percentage-based box sizing (for width).

5. Equally, users with narrow resolutions are increasingly common - mobile 
phones, handheld games consoles, pdas, etc. It would be wise to ensure your 
content is at least readable by them, so large fixed widths may not be the best 
long-term strategy.

I think 'combined measure' layouts are the way of the future; georg (I /think/ 
- apologies if someone else!) discussed these at great length in an excellent 
mail the other day. Em layouts have fallen out of favour recently with the 
introduction of page zooming, especially given that percentage-based layouts 
tend to behave 'nicely' with this technique (i.e. NOT causing horizontal 
scrollbars in good browser implementations). I don't think 'unrestricted' 
percentage-based layouts are the end of the story, though.

I'm currently experimenting with a (much improved) layout for my site's home 
page which will combine some of these concepts to produce a layout that scales 
nicely with font size, adapts to browser width appropriately, and gives 
everyone 'screen estate' value for money. More on 
http://www.fiveminuteargument.com very soon.

- Bobby
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Rob Emenecker
 Just for clarification, if anyone else is as confused by this 
 thread as I am.

I am glad I was able to confuse. It means the coffee is being consumed at
too great an intake level. 


Rob Emenecker @ Hairy Dog Digital
www.hairydogdigital.com
 
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[css-d] in IE6, 1st level LI in menu expands width on hover (to width of dropdown) -- can you help stop it?

2009-03-19 Thread Kir Talmage
Dear all,

I'm using a suckerfish-based nav menu at
http://www.alysonchasestudio.com (doctype is strict)

In IE6 (but not FF2 or 3, not IE7, not not -- as far as I've tested --
Safari or Chrome), when I hover over the top-level menu item, it will
expand to accommodate the (wider) widths of the drop down list. I
don't want it to do this, and I would prefer not to wrap the drop-down
items.

Can you please advise how to make IE6 stop this?

The page (the nav is at the bottom):
http://www.alysonchasestudio.com/index.php  -- I've specified both
each li and its anchor widths inline, because each item is different
The basic CSS: http://www.alysonchasestudio.com/css/achbase.css
The IE6 css (mostly to note what I've tried so far):
http://www.alysonchasestudio.com/css/ach_ie6.css

I really appreciate your help!
--Kir
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread David Laakso

   
 

 Why limit yourself to one or the other :-) ? Need of the moment 
 determines structure-- pixel, em, or percent. And I suppose, if push 
 came to shove,  you could go for broke and employ the best advantages of 
 pixel, em, and percent widths all within the same layout structure. 
 Georg Sortun [1] seems to pull it off quite well.
 http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/toc_7a.html


   

Just for clarification, if anyone else is as confused by this thread as 
I am. My reply above to Rob *assumed* he was referring in question to 
the use of em or percent to structure a layout.






-- 
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http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Adams
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:03:15 -0700
Came this utterance formulated by Kenny Leu to my mailbox:

 D'oh!
 
 I should've read that link above before posting...
 
 To redeem myself:
 EM:
 - always relative to font size
 - fonts affect absolute widths of things set with EM! (e.g. could
 cause horizontal scroll)
 - however, relative widths are not affected.
 e.g. if a particular sentence fits all on one line, it will always fit
 on one line even if the font is changed to be very large.
 

But this is dependant on at least one other factor. Fonts on the user
computers, different fonts have different letter widths. So the sentence
width may vary with regard to a set EM container width.

 PERCENT:
 - always relative to containing block (could be parent font as well)
 - this means that containing blocks can get very crowded.
 

-- 
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Adams
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:28:08 + (GMT)
Came this utterance formulated by Bobby Jack to my mailbox:

 
 --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Michael Stevens bigm...@bigmikes.org wrote:
 
  So, is it uncommon, or bad practice, to use both in this
  situation?
  
  {height: 7.2em; width: 20%;}
 
 More and more, I find myself using the two in various combinations. It
 gets particularly interesting if you throw pixels into the mix (which
 *can* still have valid uses!) and/or combine different measurements
 with, for example, width, min-width, and max-width.
 
 Generally speaking, I think the following are relevant points:
 
 1. Line lengths are less legible if they are too short or too long;
 this suggests some level of box-sizing related to font-size, i.e. ems.
 
 2. That's not to say the line length cannot vary; min-width and
 max-width in ems can still achieve readable copy with varying font
 sizes.
 
 3. Horizontal scrolling is BAD. Unrestricted em-sizing tends to lead
 to horizontal scrolling, but this can be mitigated (esp. on the good
 browsers) with max-width as a percentatge - e.g. 100%
 
 4. Users with v. wide screen resolutions might like to take advantage
 of the fact. This suggests some level of percentage-based box sizing
 (for width).
 

I use ems for widths to try to work to readable line lengths.
Recommended line lengths generally vary from 40 - 75 letters depending
on whom you are reading:
http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/typelayout/a/linelength.htm
http://blog.anthonyjones.biz/2009/01/typography-101-line-length/
http://artsci.wustl.edu/~gssw/2004/dw/typography.htm

 5. Equally, users with narrow resolutions are increasingly common -
 mobile phones, handheld games consoles, pdas, etc. It would be wise to
 ensure your content is at least readable by them, so large fixed
 widths may not be the best long-term strategy.


I do use percentages for maximum widths when i consider the browser
may be anything from a phone to a very wide screen. I have also used a
pixel maximum width of around 1250 for the site design width. To cater
to IE7 (without maxwidth support) i generally supply a fixed width on
the wrapper div, in a seperate style sheet which works for 800px
screens unless i know the customer is on 1024px throughout - in this
case IE7 users on 800px screens scroll the menu bar out of view (bad,
yes, but these IE users are in the under 10% minority).

 I think 'combined measure' layouts are the way of the future; georg (I
 /think/ - apologies if someone else!) discussed these at great length
 in an excellent mail the other day. Em layouts have fallen out of
 favour recently with the introduction of page zooming, especially
 given that percentage-based layouts tend to behave 'nicely' with this
 technique (i.e. NOT causing horizontal scrollbars in good browser
 implementations). I don't think 'unrestricted' percentage-based
 layouts are the end of the story, though.
 

I tend to turn text only zoom on before zooming and i personally use
zoom on a lot of sites where i want to read.

 I'm currently experimenting with a (much improved) layout for my
 site's home page which will combine some of these concepts to produce
 a layout that scales nicely with font size, adapts to browser width
 appropriately, and gives everyone 'screen estate' value for money.
 More on http://www.fiveminuteargument.com very soon.
 
 - Bobby
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Theophan Dort
 i generally supply a fixed width on
 the wrapper div, in a seperate style sheet which works for 800px
 screens

How do you serve different CSS to different people?  I'm assuming some  
sort of JavaScript sniffer?

I love your Julian of Norwich quote, BTW.  Did you ever read her book   
_Showings_?  Really weird, but fascinating, and wonderful in places.

Thanks!

Theophan
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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Cheryl D Wise
If IE is the only one you are concerned about use a conditional comment, no
javascript necessary since only IE parses them.

Cheryl D Wise 

April Session Classes http://starttoweb.com: 
Introduction to CSS
Introduction to Expression Web



-Original Message-
From: Theophan Dort

 i generally supply a fixed width on
 the wrapper div, in a seperate style sheet which works for 800px
 screens

How do you serve different CSS to different people?  I'm assuming some  
sort of JavaScript sniffer?



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Re: [css-d] [OT] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Theophan Dort
 If IE is the only one you are concerned about use a conditional  
 comment, no
 javascript necessary since only IE parses them.

I apologize to the list -- I had intended my previous post to go off- 
list and didn't realize it wound up going to the list instead.  I fear  
this is off-topic, not being about CSS.  I'll reply in more detail off- 
list.

Theophan
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Re: [css-d] in IE6, 1st level LI in menu expands width on hover (to width of dropdown) -- can you help stop it?

2009-03-19 Thread Bill Brown
Kir Talmage wrote:
 I'm using a suckerfish-based nav menu at
 http://www.alysonchasestudio.com (doctype is strict)
 
 In IE6 (but not FF2 or 3, not IE7, not not -- as far as I've tested --
 Safari or Chrome), when I hover over the top-level menu item, it will
 expand to accommodate the (wider) widths of the drop down list. I
 don't want it to do this, and I would prefer not to wrap the drop-down
 items.
 
 Can you please advise how to make IE6 stop this?

Add to css/ach_ie6.css:
#navmenu li{overflow-x:hidden;}

Hope it helps.
Bill

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Re: [css-d] in IE6, 1st level LI in menu expands width on hover (to width of dropdown) -- can you help stop it?

2009-03-19 Thread Kir Talmage
Bill, thanks for your reply!  I'll experiment with the overflow and
see what happens. In the meantime, I also received this suggestion:

Paul O'B (http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/member.php?u=25195) over at
SitePoint forums recommended I change the positioning like this:

#navmenu li {position:relative}

#navmenu li:hover ul,  #navmenu li.sfhover ul {
 position: absolute;
 top: 1.3em;
 }

I've put that up on the site (with a bit of other spacing edits) in
css/ach_ie6.css and it's working well. Now for the next bugs...

-- Kir

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Bill Brown macnim...@gmail.com wrote:
 Add to css/ach_ie6.css:
 #navmenu li{overflow-x:hidden;}

 Hope it helps.
 Bill

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Re: [css-d] EMs vs. PERCENTs

2009-03-19 Thread Michael Adams
Ignoring later posts and replying inline. 


On Thu, 19 Mar 2009 18:52:22 -0400
Came this utterance formulated by Theophan Dort to my mailbox:

  i generally supply a fixed width on
  the wrapper div, in a seperate style sheet which works for 800px
  screens
 
 How do you serve different CSS to different people?  I'm assuming some
 sort of JavaScript sniffer?
 

I use the @import hack that i first learned about here:
http://annevankesteren.nl/2005/10/ie-import-hack

Georg also uses it, which puts me in good company ;)
http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_12.html

 I love your Julian of Norwich quote, BTW.  Did you ever read her book 
 _Showings_?  Really weird, but fascinating, and wonderful in places.

No

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Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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