Re: [css-d] ie7 and Safari 5 issues.
MEM wrote: Well, here I would say, that I will be very angry as well, but on one condition, if, for some reason, it was important to have (for cross-data proposes or something else), access to both information at the same time. I cannot see a reason for doing so on this context. (that doesn't mean that no one else sees one, of course, still, that is something that I would like to see how the end users will react to that, by thinking out loud), and if it's really a big usability issue, then the vertical portfolio effect will be dropped. OK, one final comment then time to move on. I think the root of the problem is one of user expectation : with a tabbed interface, the user knows in advance that he/she will be able to see the contents of exactly one tab at a time, and that revealing the contents of one tab will necessarily entail the concealing of the contents of the other(s) (the radio button effect); with an expand/contract interface, I believe that the user expectation would be that each expand/contract control is independent, and therefore he/she wold not expect that expanding one would contract two others, /particularly/ if, like me, he/she starts by expanding the first, then the second, then the third -- since expanding the second did not contract the first, I have already been led to believe that expansion does not also entail contraction. ENDS :-) ** Phil. __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Use of empty DIVs?
Tim Offenstein wrote: I'm seeing a number of students mark up their XHTML with descriptively named DIVs that have no counterpart in the CSS. This is a general design issue and about markup, not CSS. From the CSS perspective, there are some risks, whether you mean classes or ids (or both) by names. The names may pollute the name space, especially if people do not realize that id attributes must be unique. For example, I have seen a stituation with two id attributes (in code that I cannot change in any direct way) that differ in case of letters only, and it seems that when you have id=foo and id=Foo (violating HTML rules), browsers won't treat either of them as matching the selector #foo (or #Foo)! Similarly, if lots of class attributes are used extensively and carelessly, you might notice that setting properties for .bar sets them for elements you weren't thinking about (since in the past you forgot, I you had used class=bar somewhere, or a previous author of the page did). These can however be avoided by good general design and documentation, which is needed anyway, to keep track of the classes and ids you really need. On the positive side, understandability of HTML source code is useful when you later modify or debug the CSS code. Extra names can be handy later in styling, as already mentioned in this discussion. And they can be indispensable to users who wish (or need) to set up a user style sheet for viewing the page: they cannot change the markup, they have to work with the hooks offered by classes, ids, and maybe other attributes present in the source, If this is an attempt to section/categorize the code, simple HTML comments will serve the purpose much better. HTML comments are risky and clumsy. It's too easy to make a mistake in typing the !-- and -- as well as use -- inside the comment. In CSS, comments are safer; their main problems are that they consume bandwidth (since comments are sent along with CSS code every time a browser requests for it) and that they they to degrade by time (people change code but don't update the comments). Yucca __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Use of empty DIVs?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Val Dobson wrote: I use Find and Replace. What do you use? I don't use anything because I don't use names that are presentation related. Presentation belongs in CSS not HTML. On 11 July 2010 22:00, Chris F.A. Johnson ch...@cfajohnson.com wrote: #leftcol is not a good name. What if the design changes later and that column is on the right? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, http://cfajohnson.com Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)__ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] nested tables
I have some data that is in a table. However, I need to display a subtable in some of the cells. It's genuinely table data. Now the parent table has padding set to 8px on the td element. In the sub table I don't want any padding. I want the borders to go right to the edge of the cell. It looks like the padding is inherieted. Is there a way of disabling the inhereitance of padding? -- Nick __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] nested tables
On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Nick Leaton wrote:
It looks like the padding is inherieted. Is there a way of disabling
the inhereitance of padding?
sure:
td { padding: 8px }
td td {padding: 0; }
Philippe
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http://l-c-n.com/
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Re: [css-d] ie7 and Safari 5 issues.
MEM wrote: 2010/7/12 David Laakso Keep it simple. Oh, easy for Leonardo. Far more difficult for the rest of us... Best, ~d :) I believe the graphic designer behind this as tried to make it very simple. Actually, the end users I've been able to talk, they say: Only this? I was expecting some nice amazing things going on... I don't know...; It's so hard to make it simple. But, I'm (half) aware of the complexities that this still brings, and if I can make it even simpler on the future, I will. :) K Regards, Marcio I am unable to work on your stuff because when I download it every time I open it in IE/8 or IE/7 it crashes. I begin to sound like a broken record -- even to myself. Approach the page and its problems as a -- division of labor -- *that does not rely on any scripting or any programming whatsoever.* All positioning-schemes bring with them certain inherent characteristics: work within the position-fixed column restraints, and things will likely go better for you For example: 1/ Delete all the js throughout. 2/ The reset styles mess hinders rather than helps your cause. 3/ Create a two column layout. Set the font at default. 4/ Make the left column position fixed [see examples previously sent, but Philippe's suggestion is probably the way to go]. Honor font-size default for the content in both columns. 5/ Put h1, h2, and *a simple navigation-list* in the left column. One of the list-items to be a clickable link to a separate contact, who we are, whatever we are page. Remember, not to forget, the total height of h1, h2, and the list is best set less than 50% of the height of the /shortest window/ you intend to hit. This is particularly important for IE. 6/ Optimize the images http://www.smushit.com/ysmush.it/ 7/ Put the written text and optimized images in the right-column. 8/ Test the site in compliant browsers and IE/7 from now until forever... If any or all above does not sit well with your employer or their client then a two-column layout that does not employ position fixed may be best. Regards, ~d -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] browser reports please
Chris Blake wrote: On 11/07/2010, at 10:10 PM, David Laakso wrote: Chris Blake wrote: http://blakeys.com/design/index.php/en/blakeys-websites-introduction Thanks, CB I think you will want to view your site in IE 6/7/8. Fwiw, minimum font-size users [16px here], or those who employ font-scaling [up or down] will do a number on it. You may want to validate the markup. Best, ~d Hi David, Does the font thing happen because of the template I am using? http://www.yootheme.com/ - it is demo/explorer. I have the page down to only 2 errors but they are to do with body opening and closing and I don't know what to do. Please help: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fblakeys.com%2Fdesign%2Findex.php%2Fen%2Fblakeys-websites-introductioncharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inliness=1group=0st=1user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.1 Thanks, CB I did not look at the demo. With regard to your page, setting type in pixels is not a good idea. In general, the culprits as far as type is concerned, is setting fonts with line-height set in pixels, and hard-coding a height on blocks containing text-type. Just for kicks, try resetting your horizontal-navigation bar: pretend you do not have, nor have ever heard of, Photoshop. Solutions to markup validation problems are often easily resolved by running the page through Tidy Online [1] [backup your original page before doing so]. Best, ~d [1] http://infohound.net/tidy/tidy.pl -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] styling text inside a div
I have some questions about creating styles for 3 lines of text that are in a div that is 298px wide and 75px tall. 1. For each line of text, what container would you use? For an example, p, div or span? 2. I need to create the styles, but don't quite know where to start. Line 1: The text Eternity Records presents should: - Be horozontally centered in the div containing it. - Be black in color. - Be on a line all by itself. - be significantlly larger than the rest of the text on the page. - have it's font-family be sans serif. Line 2: The text In Him should: - Be the color #60. - be the same font as line 1. - be horozontally centered in the div below line 1 - Be on a line all by itself. - be 25% smaller than line 1. Line3: The text For in Him we move and live and have our being... (Acts 17:28) should: - Be #60 in color. - Be the same font as line 1 and 2. - Be horozontally centered in the div below line 2 - Be on a line all by itself. - Be the same font size as the text on the rest of the page. How would I make these styles? __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling text inside a div
Andy B. wrote:
I have some questions about creating styles for 3 lines of text that are in
a div that is 298px wide and 75px tall.
1. For each line of text, what container would you use? For an example, p,
div or span?
2. I need to create the styles, but don't quite know where to start.
Line 1: The text Eternity Records presents should:
- Be horozontally centered in the div containing it.
- Be black in color.
- Be on a line all by itself.
- be significantlly larger than the rest of the text on the page.
- have it's font-family be sans serif.
Line 2: The text In Him should:
- Be the color #60.
- be the same font as line 1.
- be horozontally centered in the div below line 1
- Be on a line all by itself.
- be 25% smaller than line 1.
Line3: The text For in Him we move and live and have our being... (Acts
17:28) should:
- Be #60 in color.
- Be the same font as line 1 and 2.
- Be horozontally centered in the div below line 2
- Be on a line all by itself.
- Be the same font size as the text on the rest of the page.
How would I make these styles?
For a very rudimentary explanations of different approaches to styling
see http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_howto.asp.
My response is germane to using an external style sheet. I would create
one p selector for properties that are common to all three (if in
fact there are common properties). I would create three classes, one for
each line described above.
p {
add properties here common to all lines;
}
.plineone {
add properties unique to line one here;
}
.plinetwo {
add properties unique to line two here;
}
.plinethree {
add properties unique to line three here;
}
Use p class=[insert class name her]/p for the content for each
line. All in all:
div
p class=.plineoneBlah blah blah line one./p
p class=.plinetwoBlah blah blah line two./p
p class=.plinethreeBlah blah blah line three./p
/div
The div itself can had an ID or a class, as befits your overall design.
Bill B
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[css-d] CSS3: The border-opacity property (proposal)
Hi! I never take a vacation: http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/2010/07/css3-border-opacity-property.html I hope they will take this into account (seen a lot of posts on the subject, mainly about the use of RGBA values, not a property per se). :-) HTH. Hugs, Gabriele Romanato ^.^/ http://www.css-zibaldone.com http://www.css-zibaldone.com/test/ (English) http://www.css-zibaldone.com/articles/ (English) http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/ (English) __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling text inside a div
Andy B. wrote: I have some questions about creating styles for 3 lines of text that are in a div that is 298px wide and 75px tall. Line3: The text For in Him we move and live and have our being... (Acts 17:28) should: - Be on a line all by itself. - Be the same font size as the text on the rest of the page. How would I make these styles? To put a line of text with that many characters and spaces on a line all by itself on a 290px measure in the same font-size as the rest of the page, would essentially mean that the rest of the page is probably unreadable on landing for most sighted users. Best, ~d -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] How do you make crimson (blood read) color in CSS
Andy B. wrote: I need to have a blood read color for a group of words being used in a logo position for now. How would I make a color that is close enough to resemble it if I can't get the exact color? For now, all I can think of is #80 or just plain red. Any ideas? Google says #66 for blood red. Don't know whether that's arterial (oxygenated) blood or veinous though :-] good luck, ~c __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling text inside a div
Line3: The text For in Him we move and live and have our being... (Acts 17:28) should: - Be on a line all by itself. - Be the same font size as the text on the rest of the page. Do you perhaps mean to say Be in a sentence all by itself? The reason I ask is that my email program is wider than 298px and the text wraps. Claude __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling text inside a div
Andy B. wrote: Ok. Then what about the first 2 lines? I'm thinking line 1 at 2em and line 2 at 1.5em. Very short phrases: Line 1 is Eternity Records presents and line2 is In Him. I can move the tagline over to the right side of the header since it has most of the header space anyways. I'm guessing about 200-300px wide. Would this possibly work better than the other idea? The tagline would be 1em. Line 1 will not fit at 2em on one-line on a 300px line measure. Line 2 will fit at 1.5em on one-line on a 300px line measure. Line 3 has approximately 65 characters and spaces and will not fit on one-line at 1em on a 300px line measure. To fit Line 3 on one-line at 1em the line-measure needs to be approximately 480px. Best, ~d http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] styling text inside a div
On 2010/07/12 09:31 (GMT-0400) Andy B. composed: I have some questions about creating styles for 3 lines of text that are in a div that is 298px wide and 75px tall. 1. For each line of text, what container would you use? For an example, p, div or span? 2. I need to create the styles, but don't quite know where to start. Line 1: The text Eternity Records presents should: - Be horozontally centered in the div containing it. - Be black in color. - Be on a line all by itself. - be significantlly larger than the rest of the text on the page. - have it's font-family be sans serif. Line 2: The text In Him should: - Be the color #60. - be the same font as line 1. - be horozontally centered in the div below line 1 - Be on a line all by itself. - be 25% smaller than line 1. Line3: The text For in Him we move and live and have our being... (Acts 17:28) should: - Be #60 in color. - Be the same font as line 1 and 2. - Be horozontally centered in the div below line 2 - Be on a line all by itself. - Be the same font size as the text on the rest of the page. How would I make these styles? As David Laakso wrote, your requirements are difficult, conflicting with usability at the least. http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Tmp/testandyb.html presents all but one component of what you're asking for, alongside alternatives and comment for your consideration. Hover the small gray rectangle for extra information. Be sure to examine zoomed both up and down, and separately with a minimum font size set to at least 13px to see defensive impact on your size contraints. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] browser check pls -- intermittent problem in ie8
Intermittent is generous, actually. My client was browsing in ie8 at 75% zoom, and saw the problem pictured here http://bit.ly/cxZRUU but I can't replicate it. Any one else able to get this to happen in ie8 or other? Real site is here: http://bit.ly/dddkTA Is it common for zoom to break layout? Or is it just some quirky ie rendering problem (which did see a bit of while I was poking around...). Thanks in advance, josh __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Safari 5 / Win XP crashing ?
Does this test case crashes Safari 5 on Win XP for anyone, or is it just me ?
http://dev.l-c-n.com/webkit/c.html
This combination causes the issue:
p, dt, dd, li {text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;}
p {margin: .5ex 0 0;}
(and: does it crash Google Chrome 5 as well ?)
Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/
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Re: [css-d] browser check pls -- intermittent problem in ie8
On 2010/07/12 22:50 (GMT-0500) snak detek+0r composed: http://bit.ly/dddkTA Is it common for zoom to break layout? Very, at least for those using text-only zoom instead of full page zoom. Remember that all who could use page zoom instead of text-only zoom won't, and that minimum mimics text-only. Both zoom types have their advantages. Also both zooms and minimum have in common that they are defense mechanisms. Absent offense, defense is unnecessary, and consequently, breakage is generally avoided. Set minimum font size to 20 or 24px in a browser that offers it, and watch white (shopping cart) text disappear and appointment move to the background accompanied by view. http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Sites/Ksc/ can show how zoom and minimum can be accommodated by being unnecessary, and that fonts need not be sub-preference (less than 100% of default on p or body) for a web design to work. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Safari 5 / Win XP crashing ?
From: Philippe Wittenbergh e...@l-c-n.com
Does this test case crashes Safari 5 on Win XP for anyone, or is it just me ?
http://dev.l-c-n.com/webkit/c.html
This combination causes the issue:
p, dt, dd, li {text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;}
p {margin: .5ex 0 0;}
(and: does it crash Google Chrome 5 as well ?)
It crashes both browsers (Win Vista 64-bit). I assume on Windows 7, as well.
--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
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Re: [css-d] Safari 5 / Win XP crashing ?
On Jul 13, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Al Sparber wrote: It crashes both browsers (Win Vista 64-bit). I assume on Windows 7, as well. Thanks for checking, Al. I filed bug 42136. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42136 (funny thing - while I can't repro this crash on OS X 10.6 with a browser (Safari 5 / WebKit nightly / G.Chrome 6 dev), I managed to crash Quicklook while previewing the test file in the Finder) Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] browser check pls -- intermittent problem in ie8
On 13/07/2010, at 11:50 AM, snak detek+0r wrote: Intermittent is generous, actually. My client was browsing in ie8 at 75% zoom, and saw the problem pictured here http://bit.ly/cxZRUU but I can't replicate it. Any one else able to get this to happen in ie8 or other? Real site is here: http://bit.ly/dddkTA Is it common for zoom to break layout? Or is it just some quirky ie rendering problem (which did see a bit of while I was poking around...). Thanks in advance, josh I can replicate it in mac os x safari 5 by zooming out 3 times (apple +). Mine breaks if I zoom out like that too. __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] IE 6 / 7 issue with text on home page of site
The web developer and I are having a problem with IE 6/7 on the home page of our dev site. Any idea why the the posts are overlaying the content on the home page? http://harborbay.org/site/ Thank you for taking time to look Linda __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] browser reports please
I did not look at the demo. With regard to your page, setting type in pixels is not a good idea. In general, the culprits as far as type is concerned, is setting fonts with line-height set in pixels, and hard-coding a height on blocks containing text-type. Just for kicks, try resetting your horizontal-navigation bar: pretend you do not have, nor have ever heard of, Photoshop. 1. 'hard coding heights on blocks containing text-type' - that must be done by Joomla or the template. 2. 'line-height set in pixels' - what should I use? It's a menu rather than a paragraph. 3. 'try resetting your horizontal-navigation bar' The main reason I chose this template, framework was because of the menu and now you're telling me it's rubbish. 4. 'nor have ever heard of, Photoshop' - So I wasted three years at university then :D Solutions to markup validation problems are often easily resolved by running the page through Tidy Online [1] [backup your original page before doing so]. That's great except it doesn't teach me what the problem is, and when it's coded by Joomla, then I can't change it anyway. I am so happy the days of IE6 are finally going away but I seem to be faced with a new problem - display sizes. I appreciate you may have bad eyes and/or a whopping great monitor but I feel that because of this designs are having to be uber-basic once again. 16 pixels minimum - are you kidding me!? I've also been a little disappointed hearing user of this list telling people to stay away from animation because at the end of the day it is subjective, and/or you may be designing for a client that has requested it. Since I have started using Joomla and customising templates like this I seem to be getting a lot more work. I'll get onto the template developers about this minimum font size thing. Cheers, CB __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
