[css-d] HTML email issue on Outlook Web Access after server upgrade
I am encountering a strange issue with Outlook Web Access (OWA). We recently
upgraded the server to Outlook 2013, was Outlook 2007.
Previous emails with stacked tables now have a blank line between each table.
We are also seeing this now on older emails that rendered properly on OWA with
the old server.
These emails render perfectly on Outlook 2013 as well as any other clients
(I've tested with an Email On Acid account).
Any clues?
-Fred Hahnel
-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of John D
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:47 PM
To: p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk; Karl DeSaulniers; CSS-D Discuss
Subject: Re: [css-d] z-index issue on iOS
Since
there is (by definition) exactly one BODY element, and since it is
highly unlikely that any other element should be styled identically to
the BODY element (in all aspects, that is, not just in some aspects
such as the choice of font-family), then I would have thought that an
ID was to be preferred so that one can ensure that it is not
accidentally applied to another element.
If this is the case then why even bother to use an ID when putting the styles
to the body will do the same job like this:
body {
/* Your styles goes here */
}
What is the advantage of using an ID here?
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[css-d] The Simpsons in CSS
Deconstruct at your leisure. http://pattle.github.io/simpsons-in-css/ I had no idea CSS could do this. I need to get out more. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] HTML email issue on Outlook Web Access after server upgrade
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Hahnel, Fred (DET-MRM) fred.hah...@mrmworldwide.com wrote: I am encountering a strange issue with Outlook Web Access (OWA). We recently upgraded the server to Outlook 2013, was Outlook 2007. Previous emails with stacked tables now have a blank line between each table. We are also seeing this now on older emails that rendered properly on OWA with the old server. OK. Have you tried removing all white space between tables in the code? Like: /tr/tabletabletr etc Is there anything about the tds or elements in the td that will do this? p tags are sketchy in email. Also, you can add inline styles to table to remove space in some email clients. These emails render perfectly on Outlook 2013 as well as any other clients (I've tested with an Email On Acid account). Any clues? OK, so, do you have an issue or no? This contradicts the first sentence. Or I'm not following your thought here... -Fred Hahnel -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] HTML email issue on Outlook Web Access after server upgrade
we don't use p tags at all. This suddenly started after the 'upgrade' to Outlook 2013 web server last Thursday. As I said before, old emails that were rendering properly before this upgrade, now also show the unwanted blank spacing -Fred Hahnel -Original Message- From: Tom Livingston [mailto:tom...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 1:19 PM To: Hahnel, Fred (DET-MRM) Cc: CSS-D Discuss Subject: Re: [css-d] HTML email issue on Outlook Web Access after server upgrade On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Hahnel, Fred (DET-MRM) fred.hah...@mrmworldwide.com wrote: I am encountering a strange issue with Outlook Web Access (OWA). We recently upgraded the server to Outlook 2013, was Outlook 2007. Previous emails with stacked tables now have a blank line between each table. We are also seeing this now on older emails that rendered properly on OWA with the old server. OK. Have you tried removing all white space between tables in the code? Like: /tr/tabletabletr etc Is there anything about the tds or elements in the td that will do this? p tags are sketchy in email. Also, you can add inline styles to table to remove space in some email clients. These emails render perfectly on Outlook 2013 as well as any other clients (I've tested with an Email On Acid account). Any clues? OK, so, do you have an issue or no? This contradicts the first sentence. Or I'm not following your thought here... -Fred Hahnel -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive this message for the intended recipient), you may not use, copy, disseminate or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you very much. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] HTML email issue on Outlook Web Access after server upgrade
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Hahnel, Fred (DET-MRM) fred.hah...@mrmworldwide.com wrote: we don't use p tags at all. This suddenly started after the 'upgrade' to Outlook 2013 web server last Thursday. As I said before, old emails that were rendering properly before this upgrade, now also show the unwanted blank spacing -Fred Hahnel Can you post a link to an email or copy/paste a sample that presents the problem? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design
I'm a beginner at responsive design. I understand the mobile first argument which (at least from the client side) boils down to Design for the phone first and then use CSS media queries to vary floats and widths as needed, and to use javascript to add non-essential images on the fly, for larger monitors. However. Intricately planning individual layouts for all possible devices seems error prone to me. If not a fool's errand. New gizmos show up all the time. In my limited experience totally fluid layouts scale well or well enough between desktop and tablet. The literature frequently faults fluid layouts for looking bad when the user drags the browser out to too wide. But I don't see that as a problem. When I drag a fluid layout out to too wide I immediately pooch it back to narrower again, until it looks right. I think that's what everybody does. So now (if fluid layout covers both desktop and tablet) all you have to worry about is one media query for phone size gadgets. Removing all floats invariably makes a mess. A better first draft is to make every block element float left. Full width blocks still stack vertically. Narrower blocks sit side by side. A small amount of custom tuning from that point on is usually all it takes. Or at least so it seems. I am new at this. I'll skip over server-side device detection for now. Although that seems like the most powerful technology--if detail-oriented micro-managed layout really is the goal. Does anybody want to argue against that big picture view? Or amend it some, for the benefit of a beginner? -- /* Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh --oO0 */ __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh sandy.pittendr...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a beginner at responsive design. I understand the mobile first argument which (at least from the client side) boils down to Design for the phone first and then use CSS media queries to vary floats and widths as needed, and to use javascript to add non-essential images on the fly, for larger monitors. However. Intricately planning individual layouts for all possible devices seems error prone to me. If not a fool's errand. New gizmos show up all the time. In my limited experience totally fluid layouts scale well or well enough between desktop and tablet. The literature frequently faults fluid layouts for looking bad when the user drags the browser out to too wide. But I don't see that as a problem. When I drag a fluid layout out to too wide I immediately pooch it back to narrower again, until it looks right. I think that's what everybody does. So now (if fluid layout covers both desktop and tablet) all you have to worry about is one media query for phone size gadgets. Removing all floats invariably makes a mess. A better first draft is to make every block element float left. Full width blocks still stack vertically. Narrower blocks sit side by side. A small amount of custom tuning from that point on is usually all it takes. Or at least so it seems. I am new at this. I'll skip over server-side device detection for now. Although that seems like the most powerful technology--if detail-oriented micro-managed layout really is the goal. Does anybody want to argue against that big picture view? Or amend it some, for the benefit of a beginner? Fluid/flexible layouts are, IMO, best. Like you mention, new devices are coming out all the time. Percentage width on your structure help you cover all the varying widths. Start mobile first, and adjust layout with breakpoints when the *content* requires it. Sometimes a single column is all you need up to 600px wide or so. I generally use 3-4 breakpoints, adding in others as need to fine-tune widths or # of columns, etc. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design
11 nov 2013 21.06 Chris Rockwell: responsive design is fluid design I do think that here a better term, than fluid design, is adaptive design, which means the design will adapt to the context. Fluid leads the thought to a specific set of design techniques, which do not give the complete picture for responsive design as I see it. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design
I see your point MiB. I was trying to make the point that fluid design responds to the screen size, adding in breakpoints only enhances that response. On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:36 PM, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com wrote: 11 nov 2013 21.06 Chris Rockwell: responsive design is fluid design I do think that here a better term, than fluid design, is adaptive design, which means the design will adapt to the context. Fluid leads the thought to a specific set of design techniques, which do not give the complete picture for responsive design as I see it. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ -- Chris Rockwell __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Trying to get the big picture view on responsive design
11 nov 2013 21.38 Chris Rockwell: I see your point MiB. I was trying to make the point that fluid design responds to the screen size, adding in breakpoints only enhances that response. Yes, that's currently how I do it technically too, but it's of course just a set of possible techniques and a few years from now, other types will also be common I'm sure. When I use the term adaptive design I feel I open myself for alternative types of solutions which does feel like a more apt mindset for me. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] The Simpsons in CSS
On Nov 11, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Theresa Jennings wrote: Deconstruct at your leisure. http://pattle.github.io/simpsons-in-css/ I had no idea CSS could do this. I need to get out more. __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ That's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. Best, Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] The Simpsons in CSS
Sent from losPhone On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:52 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh e...@l-c-n.com wrote: Another one: Apple mouse through history — in CSS: http://codepen.io/joshbader/full/fKjra I need to get out more. Hmm, it is bloody cold outside - I’ll stay by the stove :-(, maybe do a little coding. Philippe -- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com Learned a little something new today. Lisa mouse. :) Best, Karl __ css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
