Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:00:21 -0500, Ron Koster wrote: At 10:02 AM 2/13/2009 -0800, David Hucklesby wrote: I find that these percentages work best cross-browser: 69%, 75%, 82%, 94% ... with a base font-size of 100%. [...] Firstly, from past threads, my understanding is that one shouldn't be going any smaller than 100% -- or at least should try not to -- if only to be in keeping with whatever it is that any particular user has set their own settings at, so wouldn't going as small as 69% (or whatever) be *too* small? For the main content, yes, I agree. But side notes, copyright notices, and the small print I'd use the smaller sizes, although I avoid smaller than 75% myself. ~~ Secondly -- and perhaps more importantly -- in recommending those specific percentages, are you saying that things go funny in some browser or platform if those exact percentages aren't used -- like if I used, say, 76% or 85% or something? When scaling in EM sizes, for margins, padding, etc., I found these sizes give most consistent results. I tested scaling from 1px to 40px at a nominal 16px for the BODY font-size (at 96 DPI). Using the calculated theoretical values, e.g. 13/16 to get 81.25% for a nominal 13px font-size actually gave me 12px in Safari, which seems to ignore anything after the decimal point. ~~ And what about for percentages higher than 100% (for headings or whatever)? Use the calculated values - 125% for 20px for example. The rounding issue does not seem to affect larger sizes so much, although rounding up to the nearest whole percent, or .01em, works best here, too. Cordially, David -- __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
On Wed, February 18, 2009 3:38 pm, David Hucklesby wrote: When scaling in EM sizes, for margins, padding, etc., I found these sizes give most consistent results. I tested scaling from 1px to 40px at a nominal 16px for the BODY font-size (at 96 DPI). Using the calculated theoretical values, e.g. 13/16 to get 81.25% for a nominal 13px font-size actually gave me 12px in Safari, which seems to ignore anything after the decimal point. Internet Explorer/Win (at least 6 and 7) also ignores fractional parts of percentages, and also only respects two decimal places on ems: http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/bugs/browsers/css/IE-Win/ie_percent_test.html Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
David Hucklesby wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:00:21 -0500, Ron Koster wrote: At 10:02 AM 2/13/2009 -0800, David Hucklesby wrote: I find that these percentages work best cross-browser: 69%, 75%, 82%, 94% ... with a base font-size of 100%. [...] Firstly, from past threads, my understanding is that one shouldn't be going any smaller than 100% -- or at least should try not to -- if only to be in keeping with whatever it is that any particular user has set their own settings at, so wouldn't going as small as 69% (or whatever) be *too* small? For the main content, yes, I agree. But side notes, copyright notices, and the small print I'd use the smaller sizes, although I avoid smaller than 75% myself. Matters of opinion abound. Mine is: No need for anything below 90%. Cope with side notes, disclaimers, copyright, not as small print, but as a diminished value (as in black and white). As, for example, main content on #fff at #000, lessor content at #222, and even lessor content at #333. As ever, Helen PS Did I mention I am blind in one eye, and can't see out the other ;-) ? -- A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
At 10:02 AM 2/13/2009 -0800, David Hucklesby wrote: I find that these percentages work best cross-browser: 69%, 75%, 82%, 94% ... with a base font-size of 100%. Interesting. As an avid typophile -- and someone who still, admittedly, has a lot to learn about CSS -- I've been trying to follow any and all threads on the subject of fonts/typography over these last months (since I joined the list). Perhaps I missed something, but your comment above makes me wonder about a couple of things... Firstly, from past threads, my understanding is that one shouldn't be going any smaller than 100% -- or at least should try not to -- if only to be in keeping with whatever it is that any particular user has set their own settings at, so wouldn't going as small as 69% (or whatever) be *too* small? Secondly -- and perhaps more importantly -- in recommending those specific percentages, are you saying that things go funny in some browser or platform if those exact percentages aren't used -- like if I used, say, 76% or 85% or something? And what about for percentages higher than 100% (for headings or whatever)? Ron :? Woof?... http://www.Psymon.com Ach, du Leni!... http://www.Riefenstahl.org Hmm... http://www.Imaginary-Friend.ca __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
Ib Jensen skrev: Thats what I meant to do, going back to the original stylesheet(s) thats more or less followed whith the template. It's from a book : Modernes Webdesign, by Manuela Hoffmann, http://pixelgraphix.de She should know something about it . I do, too, and have written a couple of well thought of books about it in your native language, ref. my signature. Includes lots of well documented templates and explanations of the whys and wherefores. A whole chapter on best practice typography as regards web pages. Also available at local Public Libraries, if it's not on loan to someone. That happens a lot. -- Med venlig hilsen Jørgen Farum Jensen Håndbog i webdesign: http://webdesign101.dk/wwwbog/udgave2/ Webdesign med stylesheets: http://webdesign101.dk/cssbog/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
2009/2/15, Jørgen Farum Jensen webmas...@webdesign101.dk: Ib Jensen skrev: I do, too, and have written a couple of well thought of books about it in your native language, ref. my signature. Includes lots of well documented templates and explanations of the whys and wherefores. A whole chapter on best practice typography as regards web pages. I have one of your books, but not the one about css. I should problably look for it in some bookstore, together with the 2. edition of your book about (x)HTML. -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
2009/2/13, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net: Ib Jensen wrote: As for most (if not all) CSS based templates: markup and CSS are integrated, so from scratch will probably ruin the template and all you like about it. I have been doing that before, because I've normally remove any graphic used in an template to see whats it looks like, without graphic in html and css, and changing the css part to suit my whishes. With or without any luck. Suggestion: Find out what you like about the template and keep all styles for that. Remove/replace the styles that don't work so well for you now. This means going through the template CSS line for line, while keeping a copy of the original CSS as backup in case you lose track of changes. Thats what I meant to do, going back to the original stylesheet(s) thats more or less followed whith the template. It's from a book : Modernes Webdesign, by Manuela Hoffmann, http://pixelgraphix.de She should know something about it . -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:41:38 +0100, Els wrote: Ib Jensen wrote: Link: http://ikjensen.dk/test/ In the bottom right corner I've have a Note-box. In IE6.x I can only see the headline ok, the rest of the text is blurred. The headline and text looks ok in FF 2.x, OP 9.5 and Safari 3.x. I've tried to change colors, without any result. It's not the colour, it's the size. Up the size a bit, and the blur will disappear. If you look at the body text, that's also smaller in IE than in FF. ~ To add to Els's suggestion, I find that these percentages work best cross-browser: 69%, 75%, 82%, 94% ... with a base font-size of 100%. You may like to reconsider your base font-size of 75%, and your mix of EM and pixel font-sizes - http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03_04.html BTW - the horizontal menu / sitemap does not show up in IE 8 rc 1 - the developer tools suggests it is hiding under the H1 on the left, and the first H2 on the right. The tool also says that the document is in quirks mode!??? A quirk of the tool, perhaps? I can't figure out what is going on in IE 8 at all. Sorry. Cordially, David -- __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
2009/2/13, David Hucklesby davidh...@writeme.com: On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 22:41:38 +0100, Els wrote: Ib Jensen wrote: It's not the colour, it's the size. Up the size a bit, and the blur will disappear. If you look at the body text, that's also smaller in IE than in FF. ~ To add to Els's suggestion, I find that these percentages work best cross-browser: 69%, 75%, 82%, 94% ... with a base font-size of 100%. You may like to reconsider your base font-size of 75%, and your mix of EM and pixel font-sizes - http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03_04.html BTW - the horizontal menu / sitemap does not show up in IE 8 rc 1 - the developer tools suggests it is hiding under the H1 on the left, and the first H2 on the right. The tool also says that the document is in quirks mode!??? A quirk of the tool, perhaps? To the last : The sitemap is shown perfect by IE6.02 locally and I think in IE7.x too. So, I can't check it in IE8.x, so it must be The Font-size are a suggestion from a book written by a Designer ... The address is in my post to Gunlaug. But anyway, I'm totally rewriting the page, so there will problably be some other questions to answer. Thanks to all for your solutions, I'll problably get back to them some other time. -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Font-color issue
Hi Link: http://ikjensen.dk/test/ In the bottom right corner I've have a Note-box. In IE6.x I can only see the headline ok, the rest of the text is blurred. The headline and text looks ok in FF 2.x, OP 9.5 and Safari 3.x. I've tried to change colors, without any result. -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
Els wrote:
Ib Jensen wrote:
Link: http://ikjensen.dk/test/
It's not the colour, it's the size. Up the size a bit, and the blur
will disappear. If you look at the body text, that's also smaller in
IE than in FF.
Just noticed you have this in your layout.css stylesheet:
html body{font-size:12px;}
IE6 doesn't pick that up, and it makes all the difference. If you take
that line out, FF also makes the text smaller and blurs that bit under
'Note'.
I'd take that line out, and up the main text from 80% to 100% in your
basis.css stylesheet.
--
Els
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Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
2009/2/12, Els el...@tiscali.nl:
Els wrote:
Ib Jensen wrote:
Link: http://ikjensen.dk/test/
It's not the colour, it's the size. Up the size a bit, and the blur
will disappear. If you look at the body text, that's also smaller in
IE than in FF.
Just noticed you have this in your layout.css stylesheet:
html body{font-size:12px;}
IE6 doesn't pick that up, and it makes all the difference. If you take
that line out, FF also makes the text smaller and blurs that bit under
'Note'.
I'd take that line out, and up the main text from 80% to 100% in your
basis.css stylesheet.
Shouldn't bee 100.01% or 100.1%, as many suggests in favor of rounding errors ?
--
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
Ib Jensen wrote: Shouldn't bee 100.01% or 100.1%, as many suggests in favor of rounding errors ? Must be nearly a decade since rounding errors on font-size: 100% created problems in a browser. Not that it hurts to add .1 to it, but it won't make a difference anywhere. As have been pointed out: having font-size: 80% on body, followed by font-size: 0.83em on #notizen p, means it isn't much font-size left anywhere in there. Simple font resizing doesn't seem to be enough in IE. Guess it was such cases Microsoft had in mind when they added ignore font size in web pages as an option in IE - a long time ago, while other browsers introduced minimum font size to counteract mouse-type. All you achieve by using such small text is that many visitors either can't read your words of wisdom, or have to override your font size in order to read it. FYI: I apply minimum font size = 14px to all web pages, and if the choice of font-family causes problems I change that to 16px - on 96dpi screens. Since you also have an em-sized layout I also find it necessary to apply fit to width to your page to make it stay within the browser window, so I don't have to deal with long text lines and horizontal scrollbars. The information on your pages is too interesting to be left unreadable, and Danish isn't a problem at my end ;-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Font-color issue
2009/2/13, Gunlaug Sørtun gunla...@c2i.net: Ib Jensen wrote: Guess it was such cases Microsoft had in mind when they added ignore font size in web pages as an option in IE - a long time ago, while other browsers introduced minimum font size to counteract mouse-type. All you achieve by using such small text is that many visitors either can't read your words of wisdom, or have to override your font size in order to read it. FYI: I apply minimum font size = 14px to all web pages, and if the choice of font-family causes problems I change that to 16px - on 96dpi screens. Since you also have an em-sized layout I also find it necessary to apply fit to width to your page to make it stay within the browser window, so I don't have to deal with long text lines and horizontal scrollbars. The information on your pages is too interesting to be left unreadable, and Danish isn't a problem at my end ;-) Something tells me that, instead of trying to modyfie some templates, I'll should try to build at least the css-part up from scratch, maybe keeping some of it, using this template from Manuela Hoffmann, which I kind of like. -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
