Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
What you are saying is illogical in any event. Font-size defined by em or % will only be different if the user decides that he/she needs to increase size of the default browser settings. Web design is different from the print environment and too many folks seem to forget that. I fully understand that it all depends on user configuration. I know that browser gives user possibility to resize text. This one I can easily test on my own and check how my layout would behave. I`m also not interested in creating pixel perfect layout. But we all know that in real world, when working on real project sometimes you get layout done by someone from outside and you must do a website from it. It`s fine if there are minor differences at the end but it`s really bad if you deliver product which doesn`t behave like expected. You get paid for what people want from you. I often try to stay as close as possible to the whole concept of designer`s work. So far I`ve been doing so with pixels and received no complaints. I want to have my clients and users happy, no matter what browser, monitor, and resolution they are using. This is my concern, not theirs to give product which works well (not only text, layout as well). I think using ems or % can give some users more and that`s why I`d like to go this way. However, must remain fine. I also can`t stop using pixels at all. Many layouts are centered with fixed width like 759px or so. This is a project to realize. You can do it or we can find other guy who will do it as we like. The choice is yours. So I must set pixels for the layout but I still can use em/% for fonts and everything connected to text like line-heights (inside pixel sized box of course). I know this is not perfect but please stay more reality which is also not perfect. Good. Ems, percentage = relative font sizes = can be easily resized even in IE. I guess pixel-sized text can also be resized but not in IE. Thanks Georg for links. I`ll read it and try to make some tests on real example. Regards, Mike __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
Good. Ems, percentage = relative font sizes = can be easily resized even in IE. I guess pixel-sized text can also be resized but not in IE. Correct. However, IE can ignore text sizes regardless of unit, which often break web designs in worse ways than normal resizing would. And all just because end-users want readable text sizes... http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#visual-audio-contrast-scale regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] em units - how to test
I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a try in my upcoming project. How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3) Can I test it on this machine only or I should also take under consideration things like monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc. I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor it is 12px. Thanks. Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain. Regards, Mike __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
2009/3/3 Michał Zieliński zie...@gmail.com: I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor it is 12px. Sorry, this is something under control of the user and his browser. Any font sizes you set are only suggestions and there is nothing you can do to change this. If I set the minimum font size to 30px in my copy of Firefox then the smallest font your page shows on my browser will be at 30px for me whether you like it or not. Wise web designers keep this in mind when designing. I think, personally, that a design that breaks when the user sets his own font size is simply a broken design. Alas, that includes all too many of them. :-( But trying to get control of what cannot be controlled is a sure recipe for endless frustration. -- Ed Seedhouse __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
-Original Message- From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org [mailto:css-d- boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Michal Zielinski Sent: 03 March 2009 21:21 To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org Subject: [css-d] em units - how to test I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a try in my upcoming project. How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3) Can I test it on this machine only or I should also take under consideration things like monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc. I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor it is 12px. Thanks. Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain. I suspect this one will generate a lot of flak. Last item first. Why counter the browser defaults? Leave font-size as 100% and then use % for font-size of your other elements. Have a thought for the visually impaired, please. What you are saying is illogical in any event. Font-size defined by em or % will only be different if the user decides that he/she needs to increase size of the default browser settings. Web design is different from the print environment and too many folks seem to forget that. We get too hung up on browsers being pixel perfect. Let's face it the only folks who look at more than one browsers are we developers. Rant over. Ian __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
Michał Zieliński wrote: I used to create layouts using pixels units. I`d like to give ems a try in my upcoming project. Good. Ems, percentage = relative font sizes = can be easily resized even in IE. How should I test my layout? I`ve got laptop with all kind of browser installed (ie6,ie7,ie8,o9.x,ff2,ff3, safari3) The more the better, as each has its own page/font resize options that can/will affect rendering of your creations... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_37.html You should know about, and test to destruction with, all these options. Can I test it on this machine only or I should also take under consideration things like monitor type, dpi, resolution... etc. If you have gone through destruction tests on the one machine you have, and made sure your creations can take at least 200% font resizing _and_ page resizing, then one machine, dpi should tell you enough about your creations' survivability on larger screens well into the future. Small screens on small devices - mobiles and such, is a different matter, but you can find simulators/emulators for some of the many variables on the web. I really need to have layout (font size) the same on every machine. By the same I rather mean more or less. I definitely don`t want to explain people why they have font about 20px large while on the next monitor it is 12px. You shouldn't have to explain anything to anyone. Screen resolutions, browser options and other factors will have a larger spread in the future, so your creations, with font size and all, will be rendered in all shapes and sizes and in ways you will have little to no control over. Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain. That's a dysfunctional and obsolete font-size base method by any measure. Besides: you are probably mixing the old size relative to 10px which ignores changes in screen resolution away from 96dpi, with the equally old em font-resizing bug in IE5 ‑ IE7... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_13.html regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
Michał Zieliński wrote: Btw. I`d like to use method with 62.5% in body with 100% font-size in html (for ie). Seems to be reasonable and easy to use and maintain. Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern browser short of making he page one big image. -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern browser short of making he page one big image. Don't them any ideas! :-) - Keith __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Keith DiSarno kdisa...@gmail.com wrote: Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern browser short of making he page one big image. Don't them any ideas! :-) - Keith A lot of browsers support resizing everything on a page, including the images. ;-) But at least resizing this way, or even with setting font sizes and using a good layout model, prevents the layout from breaking on resize. (Most of the time.) --Ankeet [ http://www.skyisturningred.com/ ] __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] em units - how to test
Ankeet P wrote: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Keith DiSarno kdisa...@gmail.com wrote: Seems pretty unreadable to me. Fortunately, there is nothing whatsoever that you can do to force your font sizes on any visitor using a modern browser short of making he page one big image. Don't them any ideas! :-) - Keith A lot of browsers support resizing everything on a page, including the images. ;-) But at least resizing this way, or even with setting font sizes and using a good layout model, prevents the layout from breaking on resize. (Most of the time.) The ability to resize an image of text doesn't necessarily make it any more readable ... -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
