Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-07 Thread Tom Livingston 
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:23:48 -0400, Benjamin Rossen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:




I stand corrected. Thanks.

Benjamin Rossen.


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/


Me too.

--
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-07 Thread Felix Miata 
Felix Miata wrote:
 
> body {font-family: Geneva, 'nimbus sans', 'luxi sans', Arial, sans serif;}

Can't believe I did that. The reason I replied in the first place was to
fix the fallback by including the required hyphen:
body {font-family: Geneva, 'nimbus sans', 'luxi sans', Arial, sans-serif;}
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh 


On 7 Oct 2005, at 10:52 am, Felix Miata wrote:

NAICT, Mac users generally prefer Geneva to Helvetica, so better would 
be:
body {font-family: Geneva, 'nimbus sans', 'luxi sans', Arial, sans 
serif;}


If you care about Mac OS X users, you might want to use
body {'lucida grande', 'nimbus sans', 'luxi sans', Arial, sans serif;},

(or think about adding 'Lucida sans Unicode' for Windows Users).

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Benjamin Rossen 

> Benjamin Rossen wrote:
>  
>> Tom Livingston wrote:
> 
>>> body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}
> 
>> As far as I have been able to tell, all Linux systems have
>> an Open TT font named Sans,
> 
> Sans is nothing but an alias for the OS-supplied (generic) sans-serif,
> which is the default default browser sans-serif on every recent Linux
> system I tested:

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Benjamin Rossen. 


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Benjamin Rossen 
>> From: Benjamin Rossen
>>> 
>>> body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}
>> 
>> Also, some browsers will not understand the generic term 'sans
>> serif' with a capital letter. This will give you the best
>> result on the widest range of platforms.
>> 
>> body { font-family: Arial, Sans, Helvetica, sans serif; }
> 
> I think that should be sans-serif, the sans serif version
> would require require quote marks if it was correct and
> going to be used. IE. "sans serif"
> 
> -- 
> Peter Williams

You are correct: sans-serif it should be.
see: http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/fonts.html

IE, however, doesn't get there, unless the users have removed Arial from
their system, which I think is unlikely.

Benjamin Rossen


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Felix Miata 
Benjamin Rossen wrote:
 
> Tom Livingston wrote:

> > body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}

> You can improve this. In a Windows machine you will get Arial font, and in a
> Mac you will get the similar Helvetica. However, your viewers using Linux
> are likely to get the bit-mapped Helvetica font. This font is required for
> system components under X11, is not scalable, and cannot be rendered with
> anti-aliasing. Between Arial and Helvetica, it is a good idea to name a
> Linux Sans font. As far as I have been able to tell, all Linux systems have
> an Open TT font named Sans, however, you may like to use 'Luxi Sans' (a

Sans is nothing but an alias for the OS-supplied (generic) sans-serif,
which is the default default browser sans-serif on every recent Linux
system I tested:

Fedora Core 4 (Firefox default set to URW Gothic L):
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/fonts-L-fc4-096-16.png

Mandriva 2006 (Firefox default set to URW Gothic L):
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/fonts-L-mdv2006-096-16.png

SuSE 9.3 (Firefox default left on generic sans-serif):
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/fonts-L-suse93-096-16.png

Screenshots source:
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/Font/fonts-face-samplesL.html

IOW, using 'font-family: Sans' will only get you the generic Linux
sans-serif font if the browser's sans-serif preference has not been set
to some other font-family (of the 3 tests above, only SuSE).

> little tighter and more like Mac's Helvetica) of Lucida Sans (more like
> Arial). Also, some browsers will not understand the generic term 'sans
> serif' with a capital letter. This will give you the best result on the
> widest range of platforms.
 
> body { font-family: Arial, Sans, Helvetica, sans serif; }

NAICT, Mac users generally prefer Geneva to Helvetica, so better would be:
body {font-family: Geneva, 'nimbus sans', 'luxi sans', Arial, sans serif;}
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

RE: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Peter Williams 
> From: Benjamin Rossen
> > 
> > body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}
>
> Also, some browsers will not understand the generic term 'sans
> serif' with a capital letter. This will give you the best 
> result on the widest range of platforms.
> 
> body { font-family: Arial, Sans, Helvetica, sans serif; }

I think that should be sans-serif, the sans serif version
would require require quote marks if it was correct and
going to be used. IE. "sans serif"

-- 
Peter Williams
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun 

Trevor Boult wrote:


http://www.tboult.co.uk

Should I really have a 17k stylesheet? seems rather big, is their a 
way to be more efficient with my code?


17k isn't necessarily too big, if it covers a complex site. Looks a bit
large in your case though. I think below 6k should do fine for your
layout/design as it is now.

Some tips:


Have a look at 'CSS tips and tricks, part 1 & part 2' while you're at
Roger's site.


More tips, from me:
- Don't use 'position: absolute;' for large parts of a page. It doesn't
scale well when user-options like font-resizing come into play.
- Use 'em' and '%' as font-size units. Other units are not working well
in IE/win, and are not very predictable for the outcome on screens.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Benjamin Rossen 
> 
> body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}
>
You can improve this. In a Windows machine you will get Arial font, and in a
Mac you will get the similar Helvetica. However, your viewers using Linux
are likely to get the bit-mapped Helvetica font. This font is required for
system components under X11, is not scalable, and cannot be rendered with
anti-aliasing. Between Arial and Helvetica, it is a good idea to name a
Linux Sans font. As far as I have been able to tell, all Linux systems have
an Open TT font named Sans, however, you may like to use 'Luxi Sans' (a
little tighter and more like Mac's Helvetica) of Lucida Sans (more like
Arial). Also, some browsers will not understand the generic term 'sans
serif' with a capital letter. This will give you the best result on the
widest range of platforms.

body { font-family: Arial, Sans, Helvetica, sans serif; }

Benjamin Rossen 
Project Manager 


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Paul Sturgess 
you could always take the inheritance a step further and use:

 * {
  margin: 0;
  padding: 0;
}

place that at the top of your stylesheet and it will set margin and
padding to 0 on all elements. thus no need to repeat it throughout.

> you could take better advantage of the inheritance - child elements
> inheriting the font settings of their parent for instance.
_
http://www.paulsturgess.co.uk
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Tom Livingston 
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:56:57 -0400, Trevor Boult <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



Should I really have a 17k stylesheet?


Not really. Although impressively neat and tidy, you could do with some  
efficiencies. Things like font-family. Unless changing font families, you  
can specify it once on the body and be done with it.


body{font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans serif ;}

Without going through everything, I think you can see where I'm going. I'm  
sure you can do multiple positioning ideas with one element, rather than  
"id-ing" or "class-ing" everything to be able to put it where you want.  
Take a look at style sheets from other sites for ideas.


I'm sure others on the list will add to this...


HTH

--
Tom Livingston
Senior Multimedia Artist
Media Logic
www.mlinc.com

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] First full CSS site

2005-10-06 Thread Dan_MailLists 

Trevor Boult said -

So I decided to give it a go on my homepage http://www.tboult.co.uk

Should I really have a 17k stylesheet? seems rather big, is their a way to 
be more efficient with my code?


Hi Trevor,

you could take better advantage of the inheritance - child elements 
inheriting the font settings of their parent for instance. e.g. if you 
define the font for the html element, all the elements in the page will have 
the same font without you needing to repeat "font-family: Verdana, etc,etc" 
all the way thru the stylesheet. I usually start my style sheets off with a 
block like this (I've just copied and pasted this from a recent project, the 
details won't suit yours) -


===
html {
font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 11px;
height: 100%;
color: black;
background-color: white;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}

body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
height: 100%;
}

div {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}

p {
margin: 0;
margin-bottom: 1em;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}

form {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}

img {
border: 0;
}

a,
a:link,
a:visited {
color: #C5;
text-decoration: none;
}

a:hover,
a:active {
color: #C5;
text-decoration: underline;
}
=

that gives you a good starting point for most of the elements (you can do 
more of course, the H tags too for instance).


That should remove a lot of redundant, repetitive code from your style 
sheet.


Also you might condsider splitting it up into one main file that covers 
styles that are common to the whole site, then create a stylesheet for each 
specific page type - and then in the HTML include first the main.css then 
the page_specific.css. You don't need to have all the style settings for the 
Contact page when you're viewing the Homepage.


Hope that helps,
Dan.


__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/