Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved?
Lee Powell wrote: I believe the solution fixes the IE/Win text resizing issue, while providing control over our default font size. This text resizing issue... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_additions_13.html ...? Note that the bug gets re-triggered if font-size keywords are used anywhere in a document. The bug is then inherited by the children. I'd be interested in hearing anyones results / bugs / opinions about this. Dump all keywords and size fonts in percentage or em, on a base-font in percentage - 100% on html is fine. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved?
At 3/25/2007 02:01 PM, Lee Powell wrote: This weekend I've been working on a way of getting complete control over font sizes without IE's text-resize shrinking text beyond all readable sizes. What I discovered was: px - perfect control using px's to define font sizes, however prevents IE/Win from text resizing. em - almost perfect control using em, although when text-resizing in IE/Win to small and extra small can cause unreadibility. keywords - less than perfect control, however IE/Win never text- resizes smaller than 9px. So while playing around with various options, I discovered a way that we might be able to fix IE/Win's text-resizing problems while still having 'almost' perfect control over font sizes. My solution at presents includes: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; H3 - Heading Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi pellentesque interdum augue. Aenean a ante. Pellentesque ut nulla in dui lacinia ultricies. Nam nibh metus, venenatis nec, eleifend non, feugiat non, nibh. Maecenas commodo fermentum magna. Duis tincidunt viverra sem. Donec id orci. I understand the solution involves using javascript to achieve a solution, however when the document is viewed by browsers that do not support the DOM, it simply reverts back the 'small' keyword, which is only a fraction larger than the font-size we're defining in the javascript. So understandably, you'd select the closest size keyword to the default font-size you're allocating in the javascript. I believe the solution fixes the IE/Win text resizing issue, while providing control over our default font size. Hi Lee, I'd like to read and respond to your technique but I can't see any javascript in the source code for your email, presumably stripped out by virus protection or email client. Please post your example on a server and post its URL. Embedding examples of HTML and active javascript in email is probably always a mistake... If your technique depends on javascript, I suggest that it isn't merely browsers that don't support the DOM that won't execute it but also modern browsers with scripting turned off, whether by user preference, corporate mandate, or other reasons. I mention this merely to indicate that the population your technique excludes is probably larger than you imagine. Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved?
Paul Novitski wrote: At 3/25/2007 02:01 PM, Lee Powell wrote: This weekend I've been working on a way of getting complete control over font sizes without IE's text-resize shrinking text beyond all readable sizes. What I discovered was: px - perfect control using px's to define font sizes, however prevents IE/Win from text resizing. em - almost perfect control using em, although when text-resizing in IE/Win to small and extra small can cause unreadibility. keywords - less than perfect control, however IE/Win never text- resizes smaller than 9px. So while playing around with various options, I discovered a way that we might be able to fix IE/Win's text-resizing problems while still having 'almost' perfect control over font sizes. My solution at presents includes: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; H3 - Heading Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi pellentesque interdum augue. Aenean a ante. Pellentesque ut nulla in dui lacinia ultricies. Nam nibh metus, venenatis nec, eleifend non, feugiat non, nibh. Maecenas commodo fermentum magna. Duis tincidunt viverra sem. Donec id orci. I understand the solution involves using javascript to achieve a solution, however when the document is viewed by browsers that do not support the DOM, it simply reverts back the 'small' keyword, which is only a fraction larger than the font-size we're defining in the javascript. So understandably, you'd select the closest size keyword to the default font-size you're allocating in the javascript. I believe the solution fixes the IE/Win text resizing issue, while providing control over our default font size. Hi Lee, I'd like to read and respond to your technique but I can't see any javascript in the source code for your email, presumably stripped out by virus protection or email client. Please post your example on a server and post its URL. Embedding examples of HTML and active javascript in email is probably always a mistake... If your technique depends on javascript, I suggest that it isn't merely browsers that don't support the DOM that won't execute it but also modern browsers with scripting turned off, whether by user preference, corporate mandate, or other reasons. I mention this merely to indicate that the population your technique excludes is probably larger than you imagine. Also, I wonder what happens when a visitor with Javascript enabled has a minimum font size set larger than whatever value your Javascript calculates? Personally, I think that no site designer can pick a perfect web size because the perfect size depends on the vision, display and preferences of the VISITOR. -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved?
david wrote: Paul Novitski wrote: At 3/25/2007 02:01 PM, Lee Powell wrote: This weekend I've been working on a way of getting complete control over font sizes without IE's text-resize shrinking text beyond all readable sizes. What I discovered was: px - perfect control using px's to define font sizes, however prevents IE/Win from text resizing. em - almost perfect control using em, although when text-resizing in IE/Win to small and extra small can cause unreadibility. keywords - less than perfect control, however IE/Win never text- resizes smaller than 9px. So while playing around with various options, I discovered a way that we might be able to fix IE/Win's text-resizing problems while still having 'almost' perfect control over font sizes. My solution at presents includes: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd; H3 - Heading Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Morbi pellentesque interdum augue. Aenean a ante. Pellentesque ut nulla in dui lacinia ultricies. Nam nibh metus, venenatis nec, eleifend non, feugiat non, nibh. Maecenas commodo fermentum magna. Duis tincidunt viverra sem. Donec id orci. I understand the solution involves using javascript to achieve a solution, however when the document is viewed by browsers that do not support the DOM, it simply reverts back the 'small' keyword, which is only a fraction larger than the font-size we're defining in the javascript. So understandably, you'd select the closest size keyword to the default font-size you're allocating in the javascript. I believe the solution fixes the IE/Win text resizing issue, while providing control over our default font size. Hi Lee, I'd like to read and respond to your technique but I can't see any javascript in the source code for your email, presumably stripped out by virus protection or email client. Please post your example on a server and post its URL. Embedding examples of HTML and active javascript in email is probably always a mistake... If your technique depends on javascript, I suggest that it isn't merely browsers that don't support the DOM that won't execute it but also modern browsers with scripting turned off, whether by user preference, corporate mandate, or other reasons. I mention this merely to indicate that the population your technique excludes is probably larger than you imagine. Also, I wonder what happens when a visitor with Javascript enabled has a minimum font size set larger than whatever value your Javascript calculates? Personally, I think that no site designer can pick a perfect web size because the perfect size depends on the vision, display and preferences of the VISITOR. Sorry, perfect web size should have been perfect FONT size. Just can't type today! -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved? (verification)
Sorry that you won't receive my reply to your private note. I do not believe in supporting or encouraging the use of such services - because they push the problem of managing YOUR spam off onto other people. Use a mail client with real spam filtering capabilities! Paul Novitski wrote: http://www.spamarrest.com/a2?ZGVmZGDjZmcaoz9gMHObLKqunJxhpaVhL29gByOuqJjtGz92nKEmn2xj Sender Verification Hi, thanks for writing. I'm using a service called Spam Arrest to protect myself from receiving junk mail. Because you're writing to me for the first time, Spam Arrest doesn't know if you're a legitimate correspondent or a spammer. Please click the link below to complete the verification process. You have to do this only once. http://www.spamarrest.com/a2?ZGVmZGDjZmcaoz9gMHObLKqunJxhpaVhL29gByOuqJjtGz92nKEmn2xj You are receiving this message in response to your email to Paul Novitski, a Spam Arrest customer. Spam Arrest requests that senders verify themselves before their email is delivered. When you click the above link, you will be taken to a page with a graphic on it. Simply read the word in the graphic, type it into the form, and you're verified. You have to do this only once per Spam Arrest customer. Below are the complete headers of the message that this email was generated in response to. Return-path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery-date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:50:32 -0700 Received: from ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com ([66.75.162.136]:50949) by cl35.gs01.gridserver.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HVcTk-0002Bp-Sf for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:50:32 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (cpe-72-130-225-66.hawaii.res.rr.com [72.130.225.66]) by ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l2PNoMIQ003920 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:50:21 -1000 From: david [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Alias JJ User-Agent: Icedove 1.5.0.9 (X11/20061220) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Status: score=0.0 tests=none version=3.0.3 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved? Received-SPF: pass(hawaii.rr.com: domain of orange.rr.com designates 66.75.162.136 as permitted sender) -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Perfect font sizes across all browser - solved?
On 3/25/07, Lee Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all This weekend I've been working on a way of getting complete control over font sizes without IE's text-resize shrinking text beyond all readable sizes. I'd be interested in hearing anyones results / bugs / opinions about this. My opinion is that it is madness. The web is not paper. It never will be paper. The web, in contrast to paper which is inflexible, is flexible and always will be. The user and his browser have ultimate control and basically always will have. Applying paper thinking to the web is akin to someone applying the conventions of radio to TV and wondering why they don't seem to work very well. Watch some early TV sometime and you'll see what I mean. Different media require different approaches. Your technique, if I read right, can be defeated simply by turning Javascript off. And a not inconsiderable minority of users already does this. Learn to compose for the medium, not against it. CSS povides the tools you need to do that. -- Ed Seedhouse __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
