Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Secret Evidence Against Bill Too Shocking for
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/98 11:08:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, at long last. I'm so glad to hear someone else say it. Seemed to me that all through this business Starr's "investigation," and the House Committee has been dealing with Clinton as if he were a bad child who had no other right than to hang his head, admit he was "bad," and take his punishment. As if any attempt to defend himself was "abuse of power"--or childish impertinence before a Higher Power. And it is strange to realize how much of this business has to do with childish wishes for "revenge." sno0wl It's a damned shame that this sorry mess has unfolded the way it has. But don't forget that Clinton was impeached for perjury about sex because, for assorted reasons, they weren't able, or were afraid to, stick him with the real stuff, such as treason. That Clinton should have been impeached is an inarguable point. And it would be an excellent step in the right direction if the ball could be kept rolling and everybody else would be impeached too. The way it's worked out though, it's like that ice cream cone you dropped in the sand. Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Secret Evidence Against Bill Too Shocking for
-Caveat Lector- On 25 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/24/98 11:08:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, at long last. I'm so glad to hear someone else say it. Seemed to me that all through this business Starr's "investigation," and the House Committee has been dealing with Clinton as if he were a bad child who had no other right than to hang his head, admit he was "bad," and take his punishment. As if any attempt to defend himself was "abuse of power"--or childish impertinence before a Higher Power. And it is strange to realize how much of this business has to do with childish wishes for "revenge." sno0wl It's a damned shame that this sorry mess has unfolded the way it has. But don't forget that Clinton was impeached for perjury about sex because, for assorted reasons, they weren't able, or were afraid to, stick him with the real stuff, such as treason. That Clinton should have been impeached is an inarguable point. And it would be an excellent step in the right direction if the ball could be kept rolling and everybody else would be impeached too. The way it's worked out though, it's like that ice cream cone you dropped in the sand. But the problem is that the ball will NOT keep rolling. If Clinton is removed from office, it will stop right there. The whole process will be declared so traumatic for the nation that it will not be repeated. I would be all for removing Clinton if I thought it would clear out the viper's nestbut I fear it will only bring the King Vipers to the surface and they are far, far to clever to allow any more nonsense. Even now there is a great deal of hissing. It is curious how, around the world, leaders are being overturned and removed from office. Perhaps, as we near the goal date--2000--the puppetmasters are stripping the front away and getting ready to step forward. And my concern is that things may be far worse for us when there are no "secrets." sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Secret Evidence Against Bill Too Shocking for the Public
-Caveat Lector- RoadsEnd wrote: After receiving independent counsel Kenneth Starr's report, House investigators conducted their own interviews with three women, two of whom had told Starr that Clinton pressured them not to reveal their relationships, House aides said on Wednesday. CNBC's ``Rivera Live'' reported on Wednesday that a total of 47 House Republicans, wavering before last week's impeachment vote, were secretly shown material gathered by attorneys for Paula Jones, which was ruled inadmissible and hearsay. Any censure would have to be strong enough to get some Republican support. Representative Lee Hamilton, an Indiana Democrat, said in an interview he had been talking with moderate Republicans and they insisted on two preconditions for a censure settlement -- for Clinton to acknowledge he lied and for him to pay some damages. They want the money compensation because they feel that since Republican Speaker Newt Gingrich had to pay costs when he was reprimanded by the House Clinton should also pay. ++ I love to hear people say that Clinton should be treated just like any other American. But it's obvious from what we read in the press, that he has not been afforded any of the safeguards required by the Constitution. And in addition, they want to fine him for trying to defend himself. Linda DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Secret Evidence Against Bill Too Shocking for the Public
-Caveat Lector- Linda Minor wrote: I love to hear people say that Clinton should be treated just like any other American. But it's obvious from what we read in the press, that he has not been afforded any of the safeguards required by the Constitution. And in addition, they want to fine him for trying to defend himself. MJ: SPECIFICALLY which of these have been circumvented? To my knowledge Mr. Bill has YET to be 'tried' for any offenses. Regard$, --MJ No man ought to be exempt from the ties of law; and the higher any man is, the more ties he ought to be under. All power ought to be balanced with equal restraints, else it will certainly grow mischievous. He who knows no law but his own lust, seldom observes any other. -- Cato's Letters DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Secret Evidence Against Bill Too Shocking for the Public
-Caveat Lector- Linda Minor wrote: I love to hear people say that Clinton should be treated just like any other American. But it's obvious from what we read in the press, that he has not been afforded any of the safeguards required by the Constitution. And in addition, they want to fine him for trying to defend himself. MJ: SPECIFICALLY which of these have been circumvented? To my knowledge Mr. Bill has YET to be 'tried' for any offenses. Linda Minor wrote: Exactly. But any "accused" has the right to presumption of innocence after indictment and can prevent the jury from hearing any hearsay evidence before the trial. If necessary the jury can be sequestered to prevent such inadmissible evidence from tainting their opinions. This whole procedure is a farce. MJ: An Impeachment trial is NOT the same as a trial in a court of law. The only 'farce' would be a 'resolve' without a trial. MJ quotes: No man ought to be exempt from the ties of law; and the higher any man is, the more ties he ought to be under. All power ought to be balanced with equal restraints, else it will certainly grow mischievous. He who knows no law but his own lust, seldom observes any other. -- Cato's Letters Linda Minor wrote: So are you saying the president does not deserve to be treated like any other American citizen? That we can convict him in the press on hearsay evidence. If he defends himself, he can be fined the cost it takes to railroad him without a trial? MJ: Where exactly did I state any of this? Who is suggesting 'railroad him without a trial'? There has been some banter suggesting he 'reimburse' court costs for 'misleading' the investigation -- much like the 100% acquitted Newt Gingrich (though I fail to see the correlation). Linda Minor asked: And who, pray tell, is Cato? Cato the Elder or Cato the Censor (Marcus Porcius Cato), 234-149 B.C., Roman statesman and moralist. He fought in the Second Punic War and later served as consul (195) and censor (184). He was renowned for his devotion to the old Roman ideals-simplicity of life, honesty, and courage. He told the senate to destroy Carthage and thus helped to bring on the Third Punic War, in which Carthage was vanquished. He also wrote many works, most of which are now lost. Cato the Younger or Cato of Utica (Marcus Porcius Cato), 95 B.C.-46 B.C., Roman statesman, was the great-grandson of Cato the Elder. He showed an intense devotion to the principles of the early republic. He had one of the greatest reputations for honesty and incorruptibility of anyone in ancient times, and his Stoicism put him above the graft and bribery of his day. His politics were extremely conservative. Thus he opposed Julius Caesar and supported Pompey. After Pompey's defeat at Pharsala in 48 B.C., Cato went to Africa to continue the struggle and took command at Utica. When Caesar clearly had gained power, Cato committed suicide, bidding his people make their peace with Caesar. Regard$, --MJ If he ever violates the laws, one of two things will happen: He shall come to the head of his army to carry everything before him; or, he will give bail, or do what Mr. Chief Justice will order him. If he be guilty, will not the recollection of his crimes teach him to make one bold rush for the American throne? Will not the immense difference between being master of everything, and being ignominiously tried and punished, powerfully excite him to make this bold push? But, Sir, where is the existing force to punish him? Can he not at the head of his army beat down every oppposition? Away with your President, we shall have a King: The army will salute him Monarch; your militia will leave you and assist in making him King, and fight against you: And what have you to oppose this force? What then will become of your rights? Will not absolute despotism ensue? ... This, Sir, is my great objection to the Constitution, that there is no true responsibility - and that the preservation of our liberty depends on the single chance of men being virtuous enough to make laws to punish themselves. -- Patrick Henry Anti-Federalist Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1788 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To
