Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- John, Methinks you are unreasonable to assert that one would only support the lone-gunman theory if one were paid out to do so by the government, or part thereof. There is such a thing as an independent opinion or don't you believe that is possible? That the "facts" are in and only agent of the powers that be would pursue such a line of inquiry? Sure, there is a lot of literature out there which rejects the notion that Oswald did it and asserts JFK was the victim of a criminal conspiracy, but that's only thing those books seem to share. Afterall, to Posner and others, it might be quite logical to conclude that Oswald was the killer, especially when faced with the parade of theories positing a variety of combinations of conspiratorial cliques, groups of assassins, and other instances of imaginative speculation, especially when they can find so many instances of the consensu view is supported by fudged facts, inconsistent witnesses, selective evidence and intepretation, and other shoddy work. So, even if you still think Posner's work is wrong, there's no need to make the insulting and intellectually lazy claim that he is a government agent - unless you can prove that he is. Otherwise I guess you just have to let your "facts" and his errors speak for themselves... BD. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 03/25/2000 1:42:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your book did nothing in the way of swaying the public's opinion regarding JFK's murder. It just made you look like a fool who sold-out to the powers that be in an effort to sway the American public's opinion-but to no avail-really! Just my opinion, JOHN PS I realize this is a late reply; been busy lately! Maybe it's a late reply, but it's absolutely right. Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- I 've said it before, and I'll say it again. I sincerely believe that Posner is a government plant used to write this "unbelievable" crap extolling the "guilt" of those formally charged with the assassinations of JFK and MLK. Up until Posner's book "Case Closed"?; there were numerous accounts with credible facts and testimonies put forth in book after book making the "Warren Commision" look like a bunch of fools.(Personally, I don't believe the members of the W.C. really believed their own accounts of the murder of JFK) They are just too intelligent to swallow the info. claiming those "alleged" facts concerning Oswald's guilt as the "lone nut" who was able to kill JFK all by himself. I also find it hard to believe that Posner really believes that info. Whatever you were paid Posner, I hope it was truly worth it to you, because you really sold-out your credibility as a reasonable intelligent person. I mean, after digesting all the info. put forth regarding the murder, how is it that you can think your "spin" on all of it can hold water? Where is your deductive reasoning? Your book did nothing in the way of swaying the public's opinion regarding JFK's murder. It just made you look like a fool who sold-out to the powers that be in an effort to sway the American public's opinion-but to no avail-really! Just my opinion, JOHN PS I realize this is a late reply; been busy lately! A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-
Kris, thanks for the reply and welcome. If the govt covert media operators
must keep producing misinformation for and to be disseminated to the masses,
they should at least try and do a better job. They could at least perform
work that even minimally justifies their fat stipends and access to the
lucrative side deals. For example, if I had a black heart, no soul, and
hated the constitution, bill of rights and our republic, and worked in one
of these mjtf perpetual ops whose existence is based on producing jfk
assassination misinformation, I would at least attempt to author some decent
bullsh*t that can fly on it's own. Any seasoned intelligence officer well
trained in "INFOWAR" and propoganda knows the following basic tenets of what
constitutes the best possible misinformation:
1-Reveal as much actual truth as possible which leads away from the actual
perps to the target perps; enough truth must be revealed to establish deep
credibility to the story. 2-establish credibility to your story by spending
time creating a legend for yourself and take your hits. (dmoldea
(allegedly) is a god example of going part way with this in his 180 degree
switch to his new position characterizewd by his new belief that bobby
kennedy was actually killed by sirhan.
DM's switch was not credible because it was out of sync and character and
too radical. Thematic switches must be suttle. The very best misinformation
is to disinform only slightly after projecting much truth--thereby leaving
the important but small "infotwist" you want.
#1 can best be done by implicating cutouts and lower level operations folk
and doing so in a way which leads away or disguises the actual perps.
If I had no soul and agreed to author the best possible misinformation about
the jfk hit I would do it completely different than the "demonic dwarf" or
the little "angel of darkness" gp has done (his work sucks and is so poor he
should be jailed under breech of fisa/cipa for jeapardizing our national
security because he p*ssed of so many and created such a backlash against
the govt coverup ops, putting many of them in extreme jeapardy).
Here's what I would concoct to sell my soul:
I would tell the truth about the actual shooters, planners and cutouts.
This could be verified and would be believable because it would be true.
I'd implicate sturgiss, hunt, opfourzero, ghwb, nixon, lyndon, and
especially j.edgar.mary. Almost all covert researchers hate j.edgar.mary
for being a tv and boyf**ker, and also an abuser of the public and their
basic freedoms. I would reveal the actual operational plans, and suggest
the involvement of rhelms.keeperofthesecrets hisself, and all the cia rogues
and cutouts, secretservice rogues at the top, org crime cutouts,ect. ect.,
since most are dead and can't fight back using their previously active
powerbases. I would then use this massive revelation of truth to steer away
from the actual folks who gave the orders, those who were really responsible
at the top (the jcs operating as puppets for their associated intl bankster,
old black nobility linked families through the dc in crowd such as mcbundy,
dulleses (of octopus fame), etc. etc).
-Original Message-
From: "Kris Millegan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-
Howdy Jim,
Yes, Posner seems to "carry water for the man." Mengle wasn't in South
America, the Chinese secret societies are THE drug smugglers, Ozzie did it.
Yes the whole series of articles by Jim Di Euginio{sp?] from the CTKA are
really quite awesome.mho The second assassination is as telling as the
first.
Good to see ya onboard this "weighty" craft.
Om
K
In a message dated 02/27/2000 9:36:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Nice article Kris. Wouldn't it be interesting for some courageous
individual to research g. posner's background and family ties?
I think he had mucho help composing the nefarious and infinitely large
pile
of b.s. contained in his "case closed".I have one well versed
acquaintance that feels gp is associated with a certain agency and was
"sort
of" convinced to do these "dirty deeds" since he got caught doin' his own.
A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no e
[CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- from: http://www.webcom.com/ctka/index.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.webcom.com/ctka/index.html"CTKA/Probe Home Frames Page/A - He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner By Jim DiEugenio This past March, April and May, Gerald Posner did a mini-version rerun of what he had done in 1993. Five years ago, Posner wrote one of the most one-sided, monomaniacal books ever on the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Ca se Closed was given a huge publicity build-up and, when released, Posner was allotted more public appearances on major media outlets than any author in recent memory, save Seymour Hersh in 1997. In the meantime, Posner has become a regular name at publications like the New York Times and Time magazine. In the latter publication, early last year, the first announcements came that Posner was at work on a book on the King assassination. No surprise, it was timed to appear at the time of the thirtieth anniversary of Kings murder. Although Posner did not get quite as big a launch this time as before, he still appeared with Dan Rather on 48 Hours (3/24/98), and had a large spread in Newsweek (4/6/98). The latter was interesting in that it coupled an excerpt from Posners book with rather unenthusiastic articles about Kings legacy and the lives and characters of his children. The phenomenon that Probe detailed about the JFK assassinationa posthumous character attack to go with a cover-up about the original murderwas now transmuted and crystallized in the MLK case. Killing the Dream is pretty much drawn from the same mold as Case Closed . Posner shows the same type of "convict at any cost" attitude, the same quoting of clearly biased resources, the same use of character assassination on the supposed perpetrator, the same heavy-handed maneuvering of the evidence to rig the deck. For instance, in his public appearances, Posners version of candor is admitting that certain government agencies had surveillance on King. Sending King a note with a thinly veiled threat to commit suicide or be sexually blackmailedwhich is what the FBI did to Kingqualifies as a bit more than intelligence surveillance. Yet, no commentator I listened to challenged Posner on this point. This included the supposedly liberal Marc Cooper of the Los Angeles Pacifica outlet, KPFK. Shockingly, or not, two of the featured voices on National Public Radio on the thirtieth anniversary of Kings death were Posner and Robert Blakey. How single-minded is single-minded? In an interview in the San Jose Mercury Ne ws (4/26/98), reporter Jeff Guinn asked Posner if Ray had actually killed King. Posners answer was, to put it lightly, untouched with ambiguity: "There is no question. Ray was the shooter. Thats how I see the evidence, how anybody objective has to see the evidence." Posner went on to use Robert Blakeys HSCA version of a motive, the Ray brothers were after a $50,000 bounty put up by a St. Louis racist. As Bill Pepper and others have noted it is odd that, if this was the motive, there exists no evidence to indicate that Ray or his brothers tried to collect the money. Another oddity here is that one of the people who Posner thanks in his book is none other than David Lifton. Back in 1977, Lifton, with Jeff Cohen, wrote an article for New Times. It (rather weakly) postulated Ray as a racist and his brother Jerry Ray as a co-conspirator in a rightwing plot. This article caught the eye of Blakey and the HSCA and Liftons ideas ended up influencing the final product of their Final Report. Posner acknowledges that his debt to Lifton is a bit odd, but makes no more of it than that. We wonder what Lifton would think of another comment from that interview which is a pure Posnerism: The murders of Martin Luther King and John Kennedy did not do justice to the status of the victims. Many people want something meatier to lend extra weight to how they died. In each case, a conspiracy does that nicely. Look, the facts are that King and Kennedy were killed by sociopathic losersThere were no intricate assassination plots. None. Such metaphysical certainty from a man who writes about scouring the Toronto Sun newspaper for mentions of Ray in 1967 when that newspaper did not exist until 1971. Ditto for research Posner did at the so-called Canadian Bureau of Vital Statistics, which also is non-existent. No surprise, the symphony of praise also included the New York Times and the M emphis Commercial Appeal. The former review was written by Anthony Lewis, their liberal commentator who also praised the Warren Commission Report when it was first issued. The latters review was penned by Marc Perrusquia who was that newspapers point man on the effort by Bill Pepper to revive the King case. The praise for Posner extends through the major media to major political figures. In June of last year, Governor Frank Keating of Oklahoma praised Posners earlier work on the JFK case as
Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 02/27/2000 1:07:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner By Jim DiEugenio This past March, April and May, Gerald Posner did a mini-version rerun of what he had done in 1993. Five years ago, Posner wrote one of the most one-sided, monomaniacal books ever on the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Ca se Closed was given a huge publicity build-up and, when released, Posner was allotted more public appearances on major media outlets than any author in recent memory, save Seymour Hersh in 1997. In the meantime, Posner has become a regular name at publications like the New York Times and Time magazine. In the latter publication, early last year, the first announcements came that Posner was at work on a book on the King assassination. So I guess we know who wants us to believe this weasely little charlatan. Can we really be as stupid as the media moguls think we are? Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Nice article Kris. Wouldn't it be interesting for some courageous individual to research g. posner's background and family ties? I think he had mucho help composing the nefarious and infinitely large pile of b.s. contained in his "case closed".I have one well versed acquaintance that feels gp is associated with a certain agency and was "sort of" convinced to do these "dirty deeds" since he got caught doin' his own. -Original Message- From: "Kris Millegan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, February 27, 2000 12:07 PM Subject: [CTRL] He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- from: http://www.webcom.com/ctka/index.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.webcom.com/ctka/index.html"CTKA/Probe Home Frames Page/A - He's Baaack! The Return of Gerald Posner By Jim DiEugenio This past March, April and May, Gerald Posner did a mini-version rerun of what he had done in 1993. Five years ago, Posner wrote one of the most one-sided, monomaniacal books ever on the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Ca se Closed was given a huge publicity build-up and, when released, Posner was allotted more public appearances on major media outlets than any author in recent memory, save Seymour Hersh in 1997. In the meantime, Posner has become a regular name at publications like the New York Times and Time magazine. In the latter publication, early last year, the first announcements came that Posner was at work on a book on the King assassination. No surprise, it was timed to appear at the time of the thirtieth anniversary of Kings murder. Although Posner did not get quite as big a launch this time as before, he still appeared with Dan Rather on 48 Hours (3/24/98), and had a large spread in Newsweek (4/6/98). The latter was interesting in that it coupled an excerpt from Posners book with rather unenthusiastic articles about Kings legacy and the lives and characters of his children. The phenomenon that Probe detailed about the JFK assassinationa posthumous character attack to go with a cover-up about the original murderwas now transmuted and crystallized in the MLK case. Killing the Dream is pretty much drawn from the same mold as Case Closed . Posner shows the same type of "convict at any cost" attitude, the same quoting of clearly biased resources, the same use of character assassination on the supposed perpetrator, the same heavy-handed maneuvering of the evidence to rig the deck. For instance, in his public appearances, Posners version of candor is admitting that certain government agencies had surveillance on King. Sending King a note with a thinly veiled threat to commit suicide or be sexually blackmailedwhich is what the FBI did to Kingqualifies as a bit more than intelligence surveillance. Yet, no commentator I listened to challenged Posner on this point. This included the supposedly liberal Marc Cooper of the Los Angeles Pacifica outlet, KPFK. Shockingly, or not, two of the featured voices on National Public Radio on the thirtieth anniversary of Kings death were Posner and Robert Blakey. How single-minded is single-minded? In an interview in the San Jose Mercury Ne ws (4/26/98), reporter Jeff Guinn asked Posner if Ray had actually killed King. Posners answer was, to put it lightly, untouched with ambiguity: "There is no question. Ray was the shooter. Thats how I see the evidence, how anybody objective has to see the evidence." Posner went on to use Robert Blakeys HSCA version of a motive, the Ray brothers were after a $50,000 bounty put up by a St. Louis racist. As Bill Pepper and others have noted it is odd that, if this was the motive, there exists no evidence to indicate that Ray or his brothers tried to collect the money. Another oddity here is that one of the people who Posner thanks in his book is none other than David Lifton. Back in 1977, Lifton, with Jeff Cohen, wrote an article for New Times. It (rather weakly) postulated Ray as a racist and his brother Jerry Ray as a co-conspirator in a rightwing plot. This article caught the eye of Blakey and the HSCA and Liftons ideas ended up influencing the final product of their Final Report. Posner acknowledges that his debt to Lifton is a bit odd, but makes no more of it than that. We wonder what Lifton would think of another comment from that interview which is a pure Posnerism: The murders of Martin Luther King and John Kennedy did not do justice to the status of the victims. Many people want something meatier to lend extra weight to how they died. In each case, a conspiracy does that nicely. Look, the facts are that King and Kennedy were killed by sociopathic losersThere were no intricate assassination plots. None. Such metaphysical certainty from a man who writes about scouring the Toronto Sun
