Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- From: "Aleisha Saba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Well Nathan - it is Joe Lieberman's bible, not mine that condemns > sodomy.. I've saved the following article from the magazine Bible Review for years, for uses such as this, for pompous asses who presume to pontificate about what the Bible teaches regarding homosexuality... The article is written by a rabbinical scholar... June = Bible Review, December 1993, p. 11 DOES THE BIBLE PROHIBIT HOMOSEXUALITY? Jacob Milgrom The biblical prohibition is addressed only to Israel. It is incorrect to apply it on a universal scale. This past Yom Kippur, September 25, 1993, my synagogue invited me to explain the afternoon scriptural reading, the list of forbidden sexual liasons in Leviticus 18. I chose to focus on what is today one of the most frequently quoted passages in the entire Bible, "Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). What I said may be both good news and bad news to my Christian friends, depending on their position on gay and lesbian rights. This biblical prohibition is addressed only to the Jews. Non-Jews are affected only if they reside in the Holy Land, but not elsewhere (see the closing exhortation in Leviticus 18, verses 24-30). Thus, it is incorrect to apply this prohibition on a universal scale. But I spoke to my fellow Jews, who are required to observe this prohibition. What is the rationale for this prohibition? In a previous column, I noted that the Bible's impurity rules are part of a symbol system representing the forces of life and death. Israel is required to avoid these impurities and adhere to the laws commanded by God, who promotes the forces of life. Thus in the same chapter we read, "You shall heed my statutues and my rules, by doing them one shall live" (Leviticus 18:5). A man who discharges semen, whether intentionally or otherwise, is declared impure and must purify himself by bathing (a sort of re-baptism) before he is permitted to enter the Temple or touch sacred (sacrificial) food (Leviticus 15:16-18). Why? Because semen stands for life, and the loss of semen symbolizes the loss of life. Note also that in the entire list of forbidden sexual unions, THERE IS NO PROHIBITION AGAINST LESBIANISM. Can it be that lesbianism did not exist in ancient times or that Scripture was unaware of its existence? Lesbians existed and flourished, as attested in an old (pre-Israelite) Babylonian text and in the work of the lesbian poet Sappho (born c. 612 B.C.E., during the time of the First Temple), who came from the island of Lesbos (hence lesbianism). But there is a fundamental difference between the homosexual acts of men andwomen. IN LESBIANISM THERE IS NO SPILLING OF SEED. Thus life is not symbolically lost, and therefore lesbianism is not prohibited in the Bible. My argument ostensibly can be countered by a more comprehensive biblical injunction. The very first commandment, given to Adam and repeated to Noah, is "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth" (Genesis 1:28 and Genesis 9:1,7). The descendents of Noah--the entire human race--are duty-bound to fulfill this commandment. But the truth is that we have not only filled the earth, we have over-filled it. This does not mean, however, that the commandment should be thought of as no longer in force--especially among Jews, who have lost a third of their members in our lifetime. I recall an incident during a premarital interview from the early years of my rabbinate. The starry-eyed bride declared her noble intention to have twelve children to compensate for the tragic loss of six million killed in the Holocaust. I gasped, "Must you do it all by yourself?" I have since come to regret my flippant reply. This couple regarded their forthcoming marriage as a sacrament not just between themselves, but with the Jewish people. The problem has worsened for American Jews. Because intermarriage is rife and the Jewish birth rate is low, American Jewry, once at zero population growth, has dipped into the minus column. Were it not for a steady stream of converts, the extinction of American Jewry would be even more imminent. For us the divine command, "Be fruitful and multiply" is truly in force. To Jewish homosexuals I offer an unoriginal solution. As compensation for your loss of seed, adopt children. Although adoption was practiced in the ancient world (as attested in Babylonian law), there is no biblical procedure or institution of adoption. As a result the institution of adoption is absent from rabbinic jurisprudence. Yet there are isolated cases of a kind of pseudo-adoption in the Bible. For example, Abraham, long childless, complains to God that Eliezer of Damascus, his steward, will inherit
Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- Oh, Nate, don't be upset. This is just one person and one opinion. If she is "stopped" from expressing her opinion, everybody is stopped. Even if she makes the "ALL homosexuals are pedophiles" statement, nobody is going to stop her. That was not what as said. I just said she had not made that statement as of that point in time. In this country we do not punish people for having an unpopular belief. At least in theory we do not. Amelia Amelia - Original Message - From: "Nate Fischer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US > -Caveat Lector- > > Somebody better stop this woman, she has gone too far now, she has insulted > an entire community with her blather. WHO WAS IT WHO ASKED ME IF ANYONE HAS > MADE THE GENERALIZATION ABOUT GAYS AND PEDOPHILES. Well, folks right here > it is in black and white. > > -Original Message- > From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Aleisha Saba > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 2:42 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San > FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US > > > -Caveat Lector- > > When I read stories such as this, remember if one is to take the stories > in the bible as serious as Joe Lieberman would have us do - remember the > story of Sodom and Gomorrah - some say this is symbolized in Los Angeles > and San Francisco gay pride communities.oh how they cry now and > still like in wait to get at our boy scouts . bring them down to > their level. > > So who was it, J.B. Stoner who said Thank God For Aidsmust we all be > consumed with dying for these poor sodomists who want to push their > lifestyles on the innocents> > > Have they witnessed South Africa? Don't they know sitting in the wings > are these same people who now promote them who will be the first to > condemn them with words such as I Told You So - the Lord has punished > you for your evil ways. > > Same old story.cursing, plagues, poisoned water mastered minded by > whom? Why the Master Plan for Murder keyed to Stars and Testaments as > produced by Gideon and his 300... > > Aids - the final solution to population - genocide by Aids.but you > have a choice and be sure you children are protected from these evil > people who would drag them to the mud. > > Protect your children - vote down the tax levies if they put more > garbage into the schools, for the ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center > now promotes this lewd and lascivitious literature for elementary and > middle school children - to push sodomy and AIDS on the children in > Public Schools > > Wonder will they teach this crap in the synagogues - bet it won't get in > the front door of the Catholic schools who teach to refrain from jungle > activity - for the secret of AIDS you find in darkest Africa..and > Mediterranian areas. > just another man made plague.. > > Clinton's blood trail might lead us to a bigger clue? > > A. Saba > Dare To Call It Conspiracy > > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.
Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- From: "Aleisha Saba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Aids - the final solution to population - genocide by Aids AIDS -- which, BTW, is NOT a disease in and of itself -- would be a very poor choice as a vector for anyone's plan for a 'final solution'. Contrary to your paranoia, HIV is not all that easily caught. Someone looking for a 'final solution' via a disease would be better served by something along the lines of Ebola, Marburg, Dengue...hell, even good old 'plague', especially the easily spread pneumonic form... Or a 'killer virus' along the lines of the Spanish Influenza...something that starts out looking like a simple cold or flu, so that the initial victims don't realize the seriousness of what they really have, and inadvertantly spread it further via breathing, coughing, and sneezing on their coworkers, fellow commuters on trains, subways, and buses...their classmates, their family members... June http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- Well Nathan - it is Joe Lieberman's bible, not mine that condemns sodomy.. I repeat what has been said - one cannot serve two masterslook to South Africa cosumed in dying - was said that those who would be bit by the snake would live (symbol of AMA???) but in South Africa they find 2/3 of the country within 20 or 30 years will be dying from AIDS.. As a researcher I have worked with the best - from Jonestown to present - from implants behind ear of some at Jonestown to the implants now so popularized by even maybe Timothy McVeigh? What is your problem Nathan - I have no religion for I consider the bible a book of knwledge of past mistakes and now it to be the Master Plan for Murder of the Innocents. Stop me Nathan - censorship? How do you defend those dying from Aids in South Africa? I want my children protected from those who would push their perversions onto them for sheer spite maybe? Trying to put new wine in old bottles - no way.so they get the new bottles and fill with corrupted wine? Nathan - do I try to censor you? Protect your children - it is the children ts element is after - look at Ltteton and se the truth...but in South Africa, you find the documentation and evidende all that is needed to see what is in Master Plan for America - Gideon and his 300? April then, is always a bad month but November somehow, is always worse. Typical communist always trys to control public opinion and the press and censorship - boy oh boy - I have First Amendment rights along with Larr Flynt and Gay Pride do I not? Saba' Remember the USS Liberty A. Saba Dare To Call It Conspiracy http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- Somebody better stop this woman, she has gone too far now, she has insulted an entire community with her blather. WHO WAS IT WHO ASKED ME IF ANYONE HAS MADE THE GENERALIZATION ABOUT GAYS AND PEDOPHILES. Well, folks right here it is in black and white. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Aleisha Saba Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 2:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US -Caveat Lector- When I read stories such as this, remember if one is to take the stories in the bible as serious as Joe Lieberman would have us do - remember the story of Sodom and Gomorrah - some say this is symbolized in Los Angeles and San Francisco gay pride communities.oh how they cry now and still like in wait to get at our boy scouts . bring them down to their level. So who was it, J.B. Stoner who said Thank God For Aidsmust we all be consumed with dying for these poor sodomists who want to push their lifestyles on the innocents> Have they witnessed South Africa? Don't they know sitting in the wings are these same people who now promote them who will be the first to condemn them with words such as I Told You So - the Lord has punished you for your evil ways. Same old story.cursing, plagues, poisoned water mastered minded by whom? Why the Master Plan for Murder keyed to Stars and Testaments as produced by Gideon and his 300... Aids - the final solution to population - genocide by Aids.but you have a choice and be sure you children are protected from these evil people who would drag them to the mud. Protect your children - vote down the tax levies if they put more garbage into the schools, for the ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center now promotes this lewd and lascivitious literature for elementary and middle school children - to push sodomy and AIDS on the children in Public Schools Wonder will they teach this crap in the synagogues - bet it won't get in the front door of the Catholic schools who teach to refrain from jungle activity - for the secret of AIDS you find in darkest Africa..and Mediterranian areas. just another man made plague.. Clinton's blood trail might lead us to a bigger clue? A. Saba Dare To Call It Conspiracy http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- When I read stories such as this, remember if one is to take the stories in the bible as serious as Joe Lieberman would have us do - remember the story of Sodom and Gomorrah - some say this is symbolized in Los Angeles and San Francisco gay pride communities.oh how they cry now and still like in wait to get at our boy scouts . bring them down to their level. So who was it, J.B. Stoner who said Thank God For Aidsmust we all be consumed with dying for these poor sodomists who want to push their lifestyles on the innocents> Have they witnessed South Africa? Don't they know sitting in the wings are these same people who now promote them who will be the first to condemn them with words such as I Told You So - the Lord has punished you for your evil ways. Same old story.cursing, plagues, poisoned water mastered minded by whom? Why the Master Plan for Murder keyed to Stars and Testaments as produced by Gideon and his 300... Aids - the final solution to population - genocide by Aids.but you have a choice and be sure you children are protected from these evil people who would drag them to the mud. Protect your children - vote down the tax levies if they put more garbage into the schools, for the ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center now promotes this lewd and lascivitious literature for elementary and middle school children - to push sodomy and AIDS on the children in Public Schools Wonder will they teach this crap in the synagogues - bet it won't get in the front door of the Catholic schools who teach to refrain from jungle activity - for the secret of AIDS you find in darkest Africa..and Mediterranian areas. just another man made plague.. Clinton's blood trail might lead us to a bigger clue? A. Saba Dare To Call It Conspiracy http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San FranciscoControversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US
-Caveat Lector- Is the Rate of New HIV Infections Rising?: The San Francisco Controversy and Its Lessons for Los Angeles and the US Walt Senterfitt Being Alive - October, 2000 - The gay press in California and around the country have spent a lot of ink debating some numbers released just before the Durban International AIDS Conference and an accompanying speculation by San Francisco's chief HIV epidemiologist that "rates of new HIV infections in some parts of San Francisco's gay population have increased to sub-Saharan levels." This news was greeted with loud echoes of everything from "Can't be! It's the health department cooking numbers in a plot to justify more restrictions on gay sex," to "The AIDS crisis is over! This is another detraction from the health needs of the large number of HIV negative gay men and lesbians," to "It's highly suspect! Bogus! A San Francisco plot to keep their unfair share of federal AIDS funding," to "We are not surprised, given the lessening fear of HIV with the advent of HAART and the barebacking craze." Each of these and most other reactions is at best one-tenth true, but the controversy has been valuable. Its context is the hard-to-dispute fact that HIV prevention has not kept pace with the changes in the epidemic. What Are the Facts In San Francisco? It is important to remember that there is no way to count new HIV infections and therefore no way to prove beyond a doubt whether rates of infection are increasing, decreasing or level. New HIV infections are not yet reportable to public health departments in California and even if they were, there is usually no way to tell if a positive test is a new infection or an old one in someone who has not been tested or reported before. Most of all, there is no way of knowing how many new infections occur anew or exist already among people who haven't been tested at all. Thus, the best we can do, and we are getting better at it, is to estimate based on several different kinds of data. The estimates will always be approximate at best, but if we use the same or better methods every year, we can get a pretty good picture of the trends. San Francisco is better than anywhere else in the US at estimating infections (some might say, aided by all that money, its small size and the high visibility of the gay community). There are more studies and surveillance systems to base estimates on and more experts to analyze them. The San Francisco Department of Public Health (DPH) periodically convenes a panel of these experts and a group of community people living with or working with HIV on the front lines, to develop for planning purposes consensus estimates of people living with HIV/AIDS and the annual rate of new infections. The latest such consensus panel met in May 2000. One new tool to help determine HIV incidence is what's called the "detuned Elisa assay." This takes advantage of the improvement in HIV testing over the years, the improvement that has shrunk the so-called window period (when one might be HIV+ but not yet show up it on an antibody test) from six months to six weeks. The detuned assay tests a person's blood with both the old, less sensitive test and the new, more sensitive one. If one is negative on the old test and positive on the new one, we can conclude that person is within the old "window period" of a new infection. By doing this double test on thousands of specimens, the CDC has concluded that someone can be identified with this system as being within the first four months of infection. So in a high volume testing center, STD clinic or medical care system, one can estimate how many infections are new. By combining these data with other information about the population that uses the testing system, one can estimate the percentage of negative people in the population who are seroconverting each year. The San Francisco consensus panel estimated that the proportion of gay and bisexual men becoming HIV infected rose from 1.1% a year in 1997 (the time of the last consensus panel) to 1.7% a year in 2000. Among the much smaller number of gay and bisexual men who are also injection drugs users (IDUs) the rate and the increase were much greater: from 2.0% seroconverting every year in 1997 to 4.6% a year in 2000. Among heterosexual IDUs the rate declined somewhat from 1.0% a year in 1997 to 0.6 % a year in 2000. Among non-IDU heterosexuals, the estimates are tiny and stable: 1/100th of a percent per year in both years. These estimates from HIV testing sites were bolstered by findings from other sources. There is increased incidence of HIV in a cohort study of young gay men, increased cases of rectal gonorrhea, increased frequency of bacterial sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) among gay men living with AIDS, increased total numbers of people with AIDS and HIV (of whom a big chunk are sexually active), increased self-reports of multiple partners and unprotected anal sex among
