Re: [CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
In a message dated 4/23/2000 7:49:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All this really isn't the real point. The point is this government tortured and murdered 80 people. This government was supposedly formed to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" but I'll be damned if I can figure out how the did any of this by murdering 80 people. These people were not stealing, selling drugs, murdering people ... Governments are disgusting at best. Hear, hear! Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
In a message dated 00-04-24 13:34:33 EDT, you write: The enormous propaganda machine of the War On (Some) Drugs has so brainwashed people that some believe that selling drugs is equal to stealing and murder. Wake up people. You've been had. Actually I was trying to make a point that the people at Waco had done nothing wrong, not that selling drugs is equal to theft or murder. From what I have read, drugs were legal until this century. Pot was legal until the late 30's. The War on Drugs is more like a war on people and freedoms they choose to exercise. If they outlaw tobacco, there will be a war and I'll be in it, but I think they like collecting taxes on it ... wish they would legalize pot, then they could tax it and I would have something to do on Saturday nights. The War on Drugs is just another building block in turning this country into a full police State, we're not far from it now, but they won't succeed until they remove guns from law abiding people. If they take the guns, we have no defense. Although I do not hold with the idea that drug use is necessarily a good thing. If a drug transaction is between two adults, fine, everyone should have the right to do what they want in their own home. Selling to children is different, they are too young to make an informed choice. Regards, Bob Stokes A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
Saturday April 22 5:44 PM ET Report on Waco Flashes Said to Back Federal Govt. ST. LOUIS (Reuters) - Tests conducted by a British firm during a simulation of the 1993 FBI raid at Waco generally support the U.S. government contention that its agents did not shoot at the Branch Davidians, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported. The newspaper story, on the Post-Dispatch Web site on Saturday, said Vector Data Systems had presented its report to U.S. District Judge Walter Smith on the March 19 simulation conducted at Fort Hood, Texas. About 80 Branch Davidians died when their central Texas compound erupted into flames on April 19, 1993, during an FBI assault to end a 51-day siege that began with the attempted arrest of sect leader David Koresh on federal weapons charges. The sect has filed a wrongful death lawsuit charging that the FBI prevented the Davidians from fleeing the burning compound by firing at sect members while tanks punched holes in the building and pumped in tear gas. The FBI has denied any shooting that day and says the Davidians torched the compound as part of a suicide plan. The simulation last month was conducted to verify an FBI aerial videotape taken through an infrared camera during the final assault. It showed flashes of light that the Davidians say were gunshots from FBI agents. The FBI said the flashes were probably reflections of sunlight from debris and pools of water on the site. The Post-Dispatch quoted unnamed sources as saying Vector had found that flashes produced by light reflecting off debris were considerably longer in duration than flashes produced by guns. It said the finding supported the government because the flashes on the 1993 infrared tape of the Waco raid were also long in duration. The paper quoted the Vector report as saying infrared cameras in aircraft monitoring the simulation picked up flashes from six of the nine weapons fired. ``But wherever flashes were visible from weapons, the shooters were also visible... By contrast, the flashes on the 1993 Waco tape do not show shooters,'' the Post-Dispatch said. The paper said Vector experts were due to give the judge a verbal briefing on Monday. During the three-hour-long simulation, eight shooters wearing combat gear similar to that used by the FBI agents fired weapons into a target range while armored vehicles crunched over a broken glass and metal to replicate conditions at the Davidian compound during the siege. A British Royal Navy helicopter equipped with an infrared camera like the one the FBI used in 1993 and an FBI plane with an updated version of the camera videotaped the test while circling overhead. At the time of the simulation, Davidians' attorney Michael Caddell said ``it clearly demonstrates there was government gunfire... on April 19, 1993''. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
In a message dated 4/23/2000 1:44:05 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The FBI has denied any shooting that day and says the Davidians torched the compound as part of a suicide plan. The simulation last month was conducted to verify an FBI aerial videotape taken through an infrared camera during the final assault. It showed flashes of light that the Davidians say were gunshots from FBI agents. The FBI said the flashes were probably reflections of sunlight from debris and pools of water on the site. Uh huh! Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
William Shannon wrote: "Saturday April 22 5:44 PM ET Report on Waco Flashes Said to Back Federal Govt. ST. LOUIS (Reuters) - Tests conducted by a British firm during a simulation of the 1993 FBI raid at Waco generally support the U.S. government contention that its agents did not shoot at the Branch Davidians, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported." That certainly makes me feel so much better. I witnessed on live TV tanks smash down a building on top of innocent children and then insert CS gas (illegal to use in warfare). This poison gas is known to cause convulsions and death in young children. 24 young children died as a result of this. For the more politically correct it must be more disturbing that most of these children were "African - American" or "Asian." Well, at least they weren't machined gun to death. Guess we should appreciate small favors. flw A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] REPORT-Feds Didn't Fire On Wacko At Waco!
The Post-Dispatch quoted unnamed sources as saying Vector had found that flashes produced by light reflecting off debris were considerably longer in duration than flashes produced by guns. It said the finding supported the government because the flashes on the 1993 infrared tape of the Waco raid were also long in duration. If you have seen the film, then you know all the flashes were very brief. Only high concentrations of heat show up as bright white on the film such as the exhaust from the tank and quick bursts of fire from an M-16 rifle. Infrared shows heat, not light ... maybe the people putting out this report are hoping that infrared will be confused with the view you would get from a night-scope which magnifies light, not heat. If the reflections from broken glass were to be seen on the film, then why weren't there massive amounts of flashes since the tanks crashed into the building with force and debris was scattered everywhere? ``But wherever flashes were visible from weapons, the shooters were also visible... By contrast, the flashes on the 1993 Waco tape do not show shooters,'' the Post-Dispatch said. If the bodies of men firing weapons were to show up on the film, they would not show up as bright white flashes since their body temperature would not be anywhere near as hot as a rifle flash, or exhaust from a tank. It would be interesting to see this film. All this really isn't the real point. The point is this government tortured and murdered 80 people. This government was supposedly formed to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" but I'll be damned if I can figure out how the did any of this by murdering 80 people. These people were not stealing, selling drugs, murdering people ... Governments are disgusting at best. Regards, Bob Stokes A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
