Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible LiberalsandPalestinianprop...
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 06/23/2001 2:04:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << > << Do you feel the cynicism? >> > > > > You bet I do. I can even hear Sharon's chortle because he knew what was > > going to happen. Prudy > > > > Then you are halucenating, because you weren't there. >> > > I was a lot closer than you would think. Prudy > You mean that you were in his presence when this was going on? J2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianprop...
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 06/23/2001 2:04:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > << Do you feel the cynicism? >> > > You bet I do. I can even hear Sharon's chortle because he knew what was > going to happen. Prudy > Then you are halucenating, because you weren't there. >> I was a lot closer than you would think. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible LiberalsandPalestinianpropaga...
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 06/23/2001 2:08:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Where do you people get the audacity to point fingers at ANYBODY while supporting the PLO and Yassir Arafat. What astonishing hypocrisy. Even from Liberals. >> I have a really tough time trying to figure out why Arafat is so much worse than Begin and Sharon: I know which side you're on, but don't you have just the slightest niggling of an idea that maybe these guys have a lot in common. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- > Here's what I see happening. The special forces will kill off the leadership > of all the terrorist groups possibly including Arafat. They will disarm all > the militias and remove the secretly stored illegal weapons they have > accumulated for war. If the other Arab states start making war noises, the > Israelis will go to conventional war with Egypt, and Syria. They might enter > Jordan and Lebanon too, but won't necessarily have to fight them. > > It is also a possibility that Israel will take the war to Iraq and Iran, > depending on what secret weaponry they have cooking. > J2 This is delusional. However this type of thinking is a good example of why war happens and the human capacity to indulge in self deception. Anyone who thinks Irrational Racialist Nationalism was / is somehow distinct to German Society should ponder the above. A belief in elite troops; a belief in national superiority and disdain for alleged weak neighbors; grandiose war schemes; a belief in "secret weapons" where have we heard this before??? flw http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 06/27/2001 8:42:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << > >> survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian > Europe. I > > >> personally think the Germany should have been given to the > surviving Jews. > > > >Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of > dispossession. That > > > >would have been justice. >> > > Lovely idea. At least then when the Israeli behaved like Nazi's, it could be > better understood. Just why they are blaming the Palestinians for the > Holocaust is not quite clear to me. Prudy I don't understand what you're talking about. Could you clarify please. J2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 06/27/2001 8:42:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << > >> survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian Europe. I > >> personally think the Germany should have been given to the surviving Jews. > > >Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of dispossession. That > > >would have been justice. >> Lovely idea. At least then when the Israeli behaved like Nazi's, it could be better understood. Just why they are blaming the Palestinians for the Holocaust is not quite clear to me. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- flw wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > > It is not a matter of "supporting" the PLO and Arafat. > > The reality is that the West Bank / Gaza situation is essentially > > one of Neo European Colonialism. > > > That's one interpretation. And it's an arguable one. The Israelis are > > not European any more than you are. They are Israelis. And the West Bank, > > and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine > > A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. > > They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy > > population. Losers can't be choosers. > >(J2) > > The European pedigree of the modern state of Israel cannot be denied. > As you say, the Palestinians are an "occupied" people. The Black South > Africans were an occupied people for several hundred years as were generations > of Algerians. Of course the Boers and the many generation Algerian born > French thought the same thing. Time and time again the Boers and French > "beat" the natives. The Boers and the French considered themselves "winners" > and the Black S. Africans and Algerians "losers." Of course History reveals > the real winners and losers. And we haven't even begun to discuss the > sordid, double dealing role the European Colonial Powers (especially Great > Britain) had in creating the state of Israel. And the state of Lebanon. And the state of Kuwait. And the state of Jordan. So what's your point? The Christian Europeans have been fucking up the world for hundreds of years. This is still an extention of WWI French and British Colonial politics. > > How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New > > Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the > > Indians? How come you are not? > >(J2) > > I dont ask anything from anyone. As a matter of fact it becomes more apparent > every year that the Mexicans are reoccuping Tx, Colorado, Az, N. Mexico > and Calif. It would not surprise me if during this century, the US devolves into > several different, independent countries or if at least part of the above states > reattach themselves to Mexico as a result of political agitation from Mexican > Americans or illegal Mexican immigrants - a mirror replay of the founding > of the Texas Republic. This is happening NOW. Look into LaRaza. Look into the Mayoral election that just happened in LA. > > >Since WWII there have been countless "wars of National Liberation." > > These wars of national liberation are very brutal wars where terrorism is the > > most effective and common weapon - for both sides. Terrorist bombings > > by insurgents; airplane bombings by the superior military side. Torture > >is "de rigueur" by those seeking to oppress the insurgents. > > Algeria, Kenya, Viet Nam, Rhodesia, South Africa come readily to mind. > > Of course Israel itself was birthed through terrorism. > > > > > > This is NOT THE SAME AS COLONIZATION FOR PROFIT! This was a matter of > >> survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian Europe. I > >> personally think the Germany should have been given to the surviving Jews. > > >Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of dispossession. That > > >would have been justice. > >>(J2) > > Making a distinction between colonization for "profit" and colonization for > "survival" is specious in terms of history. Pffft. Very intellectual drivel, but it's more than " specious " to the people who's survival is at stake. > Every colonizer attempts to justify > their actions. The alleged motives for the colonization are meaningless in regards > to the reaction of the colonized. I am sure the colonized say that whether you > colonize "to save souls..bring civilized enlightenmentneed to take others > land for your own or simply take resources" makes no difference. I doubt > whether the new victims are more accepting of their victimhood because their > oppressors were once victims. It doesn't depend on the victims being accepting or not. It all depends on military superiority. > For you to claim their is no "economic > motive" in the continuing occupation of the West Bank or Gaza denies reality. Don't put words into my mouth. I never said that. I said that the colonization of Palestine by European Jews was not for profit in the way that European Christian Capitalists colonized half the world against its will. > The Arabs are a cheap source of labor and we haven't even begun to discuss > distorted allocation of water resources and in the Middle East water is more > important then oil. You are talking to the guy who invented the subject. Water. > That was in the first half of the last century. There is no more Palestine. > > There is Israel and Jordan. Like it or not. I think that if the Palestinians > > don't like living under the Israelis, AND they can't defea
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- >That land was annexed by the King of Jordan at the time of partition. After >WWII. Then they lost it to the Israelis in the Six Day War. The Resolution >242 >made no difference when the Jordanians ignored it and it makes no >difference anywhere else in the world. Wrong again buddy, Resolution 242 doesnt call for Jordan to relinqish land, nor does it call for any other country to do so. what it does is tells Israel to return to the June 4, 1967 borders, thereby relinquishing all territories captured in the June 1967 war. >> This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but >>before the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so >>that no one nation could conquer another and displace the population (as >>Nazi Germany did with Poland, France etc.) >And which nation on the planet gives a shit about UN laws? Turkey? Syria? >The USA and Western Europe attacking Yugoslavia? Britain attacking the >Falklands? C'mon Gooli get real. You show that you really do understand by your >Cicero quote down below. ah, nurev, so dismissive of the UN, but to play along ill tell you one nation that gives a "shit" about the UN, Israel, for were it not for UN res 181 there would be no Israel >> So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as >>a pretext to what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on >>earth. >Never a pretext. The situations are entirely different. I just want to know >how you justify living on lands stolen from the Indians. >How do you? The situations are not differnt, 'settlers' are living on land that does not belong to them (golan, west bank, gaza) forcing out native populations to make way for the occupying force to settle there. Just as was done to native indians. Like i said before UN resolutions and Geneva conventions were not bad at the time of the colonisation of north america. so you see buddy, Israel is legally bound to ship outta that land it stole/occupies also, im not from the US. heres my quote again Law stands mute in the midst of arms. Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- > It is not a matter of "supporting" the PLO and Arafat. > The reality is that the West Bank / Gaza situation is essentially > one of Neo European Colonialism. > That's one interpretation. And it's an arguable one. The Israelis are > not European any more than you are. They are Israelis. And the West Bank, > and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine > A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. > They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy > population. Losers can't be choosers. >(J2) The European pedigree of the modern state of Israel cannot be denied. As you say, the Palestinians are an "occupied" people. The Black South Africans were an occupied people for several hundred years as were generations of Algerians. Of course the Boers and the many generation Algerian born French thought the same thing. Time and time again the Boers and French "beat" the natives. The Boers and the French considered themselves "winners" and the Black S. Africans and Algerians "losers." Of course History reveals the real winners and losers. And we haven't even begun to discuss the sordid, double dealing role the European Colonial Powers (especially Great Britain) had in creating the state of Israel. > How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New > Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the > Indians? How come you are not? >(J2) I dont ask anything from anyone. As a matter of fact it becomes more apparent every year that the Mexicans are reoccuping Tx, Colorado, Az, N. Mexico and Calif. It would not surprise me if during this century, the US devolves into several different, independent countries or if at least part of the above states reattach themselves to Mexico as a result of political agitation from Mexican Americans or illegal Mexican immigrants - a mirror replay of the founding of the Texas Republic. >Since WWII there have been countless "wars of National Liberation." > These wars of national liberation are very brutal wars where terrorism is the > most effective and common weapon - for both sides. Terrorist bombings > by insurgents; airplane bombings by the superior military side. Torture >is "de rigueur" by those seeking to oppress the insurgents. > Algeria, Kenya, Viet Nam, Rhodesia, South Africa come readily to mind. > Of course Israel itself was birthed through terrorism. > > > This is NOT THE SAME AS COLONIZATION FOR PROFIT! This was a matter of >> survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian Europe. I >> personally think the Germany should have been given to the surviving Jews. > >Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of dispossession. That > >would have been justice. >>(J2) Making a distinction between colonization for "profit" and colonization for "survival" is specious in terms of history. Every colonizer attempts to justify their actions. The alleged motives for the colonization are meaningless in regards to the reaction of the colonized. I am sure the colonized say that whether you colonize "to save souls..bring civilized enlightenmentneed to take others land for your own or simply take resources" makes no difference. I doubt whether the new victims are more accepting of their victimhood because their oppressors were once victims. For you to claim their is no "economic motive" in the continuing occupation of the West Bank or Gaza denies reality. The Arabs are a cheap source of labor and we haven't even begun to discuss distorted allocation of water resources and in the Middle East water is more important then oil. > That was in the first half of the last century. There is no more Palestine. > There is Israel and Jordan. Like it or not. I think that if the Palestinians > don't like living under the Israelis, AND they can't defeat them in order > to change their situation, they should move to Germany. Your time frame is silly. We are talking about never forgotten grievances (real and imagined) that go back 1000's of yearsand you speak of a few decades? > Few observers "supported" the terrorist tactics of the insurgents or the > status quo. As J2 points out - such is the reality of brutual conflicts - > and the side with the highest pain tolerance usually prevails. > Generally those with less to lose and the higher birth rate will > win. > > This is a wrong analysis. The side with the greatest power will win. Either > the power of numbers as in S. Africa, or the power of military strength. I agree with you. Unless the Israelis decide to exterminate millions of Palestinians (and the world placidly accepts this) their long term outlook is not good. And without fail, in an occupied situation the side with the numbers will always beat the militarily superior occupier. I challenge you to name one
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > >They are Israelis. And the West Bank, > >and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab > Palestine > >A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. > >They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy > >population. Losers can't be choosers. > > > >How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New > >Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the > > >Indians? How come you are not? > > Sorry buddy, the above statement is wrong. > > It is true that Israel did conquer 'that' land, however i have to point out > that under international law (Geneva convention) and under the UN Security > Council Resolution 242 > the law "prohibits the expansion of any nations territory by military force" That land was annexed by the King of Jordan at the time of partition. After WWII. Then they lost it to the Israelis in the Six Day War. The Resolution 242 made no difference when the Jordanians ignored it and it makes no difference anywhere else in the world. > > This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but before > the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so that no > one nation could conquer another and displace the population (as Nazi Germany > did with Poland, France etc.) And which nation on the planet gives a shit about UN laws? Turkey? Syria? The USA and Western Europe attacking Yugoslavia? Britain attacking the Falklands? C'mon Gooli get real. You show that you really do understand by your Cicero quote down below. > > So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as a pretext > to what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on earth. Never a pretext. The situations are entirely different. I just want to know how you justify living on lands stolen from the Indians. How do you? Joshua2 > > Law stands mute in the midst of arms. > Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- >They are Israelis. And the West Bank, >and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine >A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. >They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy >population. Losers can't be choosers. > >How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New >Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the >Indians? How come you are not? Sorry buddy, the above statement is wrong. It is true that Israel did conquer 'that' land, however i have to point out that under international law (Geneva convention) and under the UN Security Council Resolution 242the law "prohibits the expansion of any nations territory by military force" This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but before the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so that no one nation could conquer another and displace the population (as Nazi Germany did with Poland, France etc.) So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as a pretext to what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on earth. Law stands mute in the midst of arms.Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- flw wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > > Where do you people get the audacity to point fingers at ANYBODY while > > supporting the PLO and Yassir Arafat. What astonishing hypocrisy. Even from > > Liberals. > > > > Joshua2 > > It is not a matter of "supporting" the PLO and Arafat. > The reality is that the West Bank / Gaza situation is essentially > one of Neo European Colonialism. That's one interpretation. And it's an arguable one. The Israelis are not European any more than you are. They are Israelis. And the West Bank, and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy population. Losers can't be choosers. How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the Indians? How come you are not? > > Since WWII there have been countless "wars of National Liberation." > > These wars of national liberation are very brutal wars where terrorism is the > most effective and common weapon - for both sides. Terrorist bombings > by insurgents; airplane bombings by the superior military side. Torture > is "de rigueur" by those seeking to oppress the insurgents. > > Algeria, Kenya, Viet Nam, Rhodesia, South Africa come readily to mind. > Of course Israel itself was birthed through terrorism. This is all true. Your points are well made. But there is one main difference where Israel is concerned. The Jewish refugees who remained alive after WWII had no where to go since no country would take them in even after what happened. So they went to Palestine and won it over by terror and war. They had nothing to lose. This is NOT THE SAME AS COLONIZATION FOR PROFIT! This was a matter of survival where the Palestinians paid for the sins of Christian Europe. I personally think the Germany should have been given to the surviving Jews. Then the Germans would be dealing with the aftermath of dispossession. That would have been justice. That was in the first half of the last century. There is no more Palestine. There is Israel and Jordan. Like it or not. I think that if the Palestinians don't like living under the Israelis, AND they can't defeat them in order to change their situation, they should move to Germany. > > Few observers "supported" the terrorist tactics of the insurgents or the > status quo. As J2 points out - such is the reality of brutual conflicts - > and the side with the highest pain tolerance usually prevails. > Generally those with less to lose and the higher birth rate will > win. This is a wrong analysis. The side with the greatest power will win. Either the power of numbers as in S. Africa, or the power of military strength. > > Will the Palestinians outsuffer the Israelis? You bet they will. But that won't get them Palestine back. > As the Israelis assume > a traditional European / American standard of living with all that > entails such as glorifying a lifestyle that abhors inconvenience and > demands instant gratification (much like the traditional colonialists living > in their colonialist bubble) they paradoxically become weaker. For > example it is now common for young Israelis to dodge the draft which > was almost unheard of in the past. This was true up to a point. That point has been passed. Your example was what drove Labor and Liberals and the Israeli Left into the Oslo Accords. They got tired and lazy and weary of constant war. They really wanted peace with the Palestinians enough to delude themselves into thinking that the Palestinians wanted peace too. But the Palestinians don't want peace. They wasn't Israel to disappear and return to Old Palestine. That won't happen. And the Palestinians and all the Arab world can't make it happen. So they didn't take the best offer they would ever get. When the bourgie Israelis saw that, it hit home. They reverted to the survival mentality and elected the man who was most likely to deal with the enemy as an enemy. Sharon. > > The more squalid the Palestinian's conditions become - the stronger they > become in terms of this conflict. This is a ridiculous statement. The Palestinians are losing all around. They are even losing in world opinion which is swinging against them. They have demonstrated their true intent. > > Perhaps the closest to the Palestinian / Israeli situation is South Africa. Not even the same ball game. This is a forced and contrived comparison designed to appeal to Liberals. > > It is clear that Israel's long term plan is an Apartheid State. Only an > Israeli Apartheid State could possibly survive demographic reality > assuming Israel insists on remaining a Theocratic "ethnically pure" > political entity. Israel intends to remain Jewish. That's the point of it's existence. If someone doesn't like it, too bad. J2 > > Clearly just as in South Africa,
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible LiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- >He did not commit THAT war crime. oh really he did not commit that crime ? was Sharon the man in charge of that area ? the answer is yes he was. according to Geneva conventions and International law the person in charge is the one responsible when the land is occupied by a forigen force. Even though he did not do it himself, the safety of civilians and militray personal arrested are his responsibiliity. >There will ALWAYS be war crimes in war. ALWAYS The solution is >to not allow wars to get started. yes that is true, but once the crime has been committed the perpetrator should bd brought to trial and punished for his crimes.Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- > Where do you people get the audacity to point fingers at ANYBODY while > supporting the PLO and Yassir Arafat. What astonishing hypocrisy. Even from > Liberals. > > Joshua2 It is not a matter of "supporting" the PLO and Arafat. The reality is that the West Bank / Gaza situation is essentially one of Neo European Colonialism. Since WWII there have been countless "wars of National Liberation." These wars of national liberation are very brutal wars where terrorism is the most effective and common weapon - for both sides. Terrorist bombings by insurgents; airplane bombings by the superior military side. Torture is "de rigueur" by those seeking to oppress the insurgents. Algeria, Kenya, Viet Nam, Rhodesia, South Africa come readily to mind. Of course Israel itself was birthed through terrorism. Few observers "supported" the terrorist tactics of the insurgents or the status quo. As J2 points out - such is the reality of brutual conflicts - and the side with the highest pain tolerance usually prevails. Generally those with less to lose and the higher birth rate will win. Will the Palestinians outsuffer the Israelis? As the Israelis assume a traditional European / American standard of living with all that entails such as glorifying a lifestyle that abhors inconvenience and demands instant gratification (much like the traditional colonialists living in their colonialist bubble) they paradoxically become weaker. For example it is now common for young Israelis to dodge the draft which was almost unheard of in the past. The more squalid the Palestinian's conditions become - the stronger they become in terms of this conflict. Perhaps the closest to the Palestinian / Israeli situation is South Africa. It is clear that Israel's long term plan is an Apartheid State. Only an Israeli Apartheid State could possibly survive demographic reality assuming Israel insists on remaining a Theocratic "ethnically pure" political entity. Clearly just as in South Africa, Apartheid is a losing game. flw http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals
-Caveat Lector- >Let me get this straight first. >Are you saying Ariel Sharon has NOT commited war crimes ? >a simple answer of yes or no will suffice. Of course Sharon is not a war criminal... and Eichmann only made the trains run on time. flw http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible LiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > Let me get this straight first. > > Are you saying Ariel Sharon has NOT commited war crimes ? Were not talking about whether Sharon committed ANY war crimes. We are talking about the Sabra and Shatilla massacre. He did not commit THAT war crime. But the Arabs have mounted a campaign to bring him up on charges in the World Court for THAT war crime. They will lose that one too because it's not true. But the point is to try to win PR points. They have no interest in the real killers of their people in Sabra and Shatila. They know what really happened and who is responsible, yet never brought charges against them. > Are you saying Ariel Sharon has NOT commited war crimes ? > a simple answer of yes or no will suffice. > No. I'm not saying that at all. I know the history of the region very well. Sharon was ( is ) a military general. He has fought real wars with real enemies. All Arabs. He has taken part in, or commanded troops who have committed " war crimes." No doubt about it. But this is the nature of war. There is NO general who has taken part in a war who is not responsible for war crimes as modernly defined. NONE. The winners in those wars are " heroes " and the losers can always be charged as a war criminal. The recent war in Kosovo is the absolutely perfect example. There will ALWAYS be war crimes in war. ALWAYS The solution is to not allow wars to get started. That is the ONLY moral way to handle potential conflict. Now let's get to the real stuff. How can you take the Palestinians seriously about " war crimes " when their leader is Yassir Arafat??? You must be kidding. Arafat has not even got the excuse and cover of fighting a war. The list of his violent criminal acts against civilians is incontrovertible. Would you like me to post it? This is why you people are a joke to me. You are supporters of actual, real terrorists who have been " ethnically cleansed " from Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi, and Lebanon, for their charming behavior. All Arab countries. Where were you then? Where was your outrage against the host countries for ethnic cleansing? Where do you people get the audacity to point fingers at ANYBODY while supporting the PLO and Yassir Arafat. What astonishing hypocrisy. Even from Liberals. Joshua2 > > >From: "Nurev Ind." > >Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals > andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2 > >Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:03:27 -0400 > > > >-Caveat Lector- > > > >goolie smith wrote: > > > > > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > > > hahaha, > > > > > > looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. > > > > > > is that what your trying to do Nurev ? > > > > > > > > > > > > >Can you read Goolie? Do you think I told Hamas to say what they said > >just to fool you? Or do you just like being a dupe? > > > >The facts are out. Anyone can do their own research on the subject > >as I did. Hahaha is not a rebuttal to the facts I posted. > > > >Check it out for yourself. > > > >Joshua2 > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianprop...
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 06/21/2001 10:51:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << Do you feel the cynicism? >> > > You bet I do. I can even hear Sharon's chortle because he knew what was > going to happen. Prudy > Then you are halucenating, because you weren't there. J2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- Let me get this straight first. Are you saying Ariel Sharon has NOT commited war crimes ? a simple answer of yes or no will suffice. >From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2 >Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:03:27 -0400 > >-Caveat Lector- > >goolie smith wrote: > > > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > hahaha, > > > > looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. > > > > is that what your trying to do Nurev ? > > > > > > > >Can you read Goolie? Do you think I told Hamas to say what they said >just to fool you? Or do you just like being a dupe? > >The facts are out. Anyone can do their own research on the subject >as I did. Hahaha is not a rebuttal to the facts I posted. > >Check it out for yourself. > >Joshua2 > >www.ctrl.org >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER >== >CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic >screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are >sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- >directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with >major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. >That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and >always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no >credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > >Archives Available at: >http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > Archives of >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > ctrl > >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Om Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > hahaha, > > looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. > > is that what your trying to do Nurev ? > > > Can you read Goolie? Do you think I told Hamas to say what they said just to fool you? Or do you just like being a dupe? The facts are out. Anyone can do their own research on the subject as I did. Hahaha is not a rebuttal to the facts I posted. Check it out for yourself. Joshua2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- hahaha, looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. is that what your trying to do Nurev ? >From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2 >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:48:36 -0400 > >-Caveat Lector- > >SHARON THE WAR CRIMINAL > >Let's see how propaganda works. The test case can be the current attempt by >pro-Palestinian groups and individuals to demonize Ariel Sharon as >the butcher of Sabra and Shatilla. This has been going on for two decades, >but the latest ploy is charging him with war crimes in the international >court in Belgium where a Palestinian woman is bringing the charges against >the Israeli head of state. This woman was raped and members of her family >were brutally massacred by Christian Militiamen who hated the Palestinians >for THEIR brutal occupation of Southern Lebanon and the numerous atrocities >perpetrated by the great Palestinian fighters who were ultimately driven >out by Sharon. > >Does this woman ( or even ANYBODY ELSE ) bring charges against the known >rapists and killers? Of course not. There is no political advantage in >doing that. Do you feel the cynicism? > >This should be seen as politically driven. Not only by the Palestinians >(who know the truth and are using the tragedy of Sabra & Shatilla >the same way they cynically use the deaths of their own children to achieve >the status of super victim), but also those with specific political agenda >like the BBC, as well as most of the Euro media who's economies depend on >Arab oil from the Middle East, and have no particular intrest in Jews. > >The Palestinians have gotten to understand that their most receptive mass >audience in the West are Liberals. Liberals respond to victimology as >Pavlov's dogs responded to bells. They begin to salivate for the opportunity >to prove to themselves and other Liberals what good people they are by >sympathizing with a perceived victim while actually doing nothing of >consequence. > >This is how the USA and Euro Globalists got a majority of their citizens >to back the destruction of Yugoslavia. The aggressors, the Albanian >Separatists, were presented as victims of the evil Serbs even though they >were paid by the CIA and German Secret Services to start a secessionist >revolt in a country which the Globalists wanted to destroy for being a >non-Capitalist economy. By doing this, the West's ( war criminal ) media >began a one sided exposition of the horrors of civil war. > >PR firms were hired to plan and manage the " victimization " of the Albanians. >This worked splendidly. Gullible Liberals, were the specific target of this >campaign because they are the current majorities in both the US and the EU. >But being a majority does not mean that they are not shallow and stupid. > >NATO destroyed an old reliable ally who helped save Europe from Hitler by >forcing the Germans to start Barbarosa much later than planned. The Serb >rebellion tied up German armor until the Serbs were defeated and sent to >concentration camps to die. They were directly responsible for Germany's >late winter invasion of Russia. > >The Albanians ( like the Palestinians ) were Nazi allies. > >But the Albanians, led by the KLA, were then, and are now the biggest drug >dealers in Europe. They are also the major group responsible for for the >sex/slave trade of Eastern European girls. Their drug and slave base is in >Kosovo. > >But hey! That's all OK. Why? Because they were accepted as victims. > >gullible - > >adj. easily cheated or tricked; credulous > >n. gullibility > >adv. gullibly > >gullible >modif. > Syn. innocent, trustful, simple; see naive. >See credulous, superstitious, trusting > >Nurev > >PS: Be sure to read part 2. You will find quite a surprise. > >+ >Witness to Sabra and Shatila: >why Sharon is a war criminal > >15 JUNE 2001 >Dr. Ben Alofs >http://metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-24/opin/witness_to_sabra.htm > >I am a Dutch doctor, currently living in north Wales. In the summer >of 1982 I was working as a nurse in West Beirut, which at the time >was being besieged by the Israeli army. > >The American negotiator Philip Habib had mediated an agreement, >according to which the Israeli army would refrain from occupying West >Beirut after the Palestinian fedayeen guerrillas had left. > >A second fundamental aspect of the agreement was that the United >States would guarantee the security of
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian prop...
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 06/21/2001 10:51:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Do you feel the cynicism? >> You bet I do. I can even hear Sharon's chortle because he knew what was going to happen. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 2/2
-Caveat Lector- "From Israel To Damascus The painful road of Blood, Betrayal and Deception" By Robert M. Hatem http://www.israeltodamascus.com/ [ end of chapter 7 ] On Tuesday September 14, 1982, at precisely 4:10 P.M, an explosion destroyed the three-story building that housed the main East Beirut branch of the Kataeb Party. Bashir Gemayel was inside the building for one last meeting with the party members and supporters. Bashir, the 34-year-old president-elect, nine days before he was due to take office for his six-year term, had grown careless in the prevalent euphoria of his newly acquired power and position. Oversight on Bashir Gemayels part and his new antagonism towards the Israelis, allowed his enemies to successfully attack and kill him. Bashir was careless. The Special Security Unit conducted by Elie Wazzen, alias «Abbas», who coordinated with H.K supplied Wazzen with information. Elie Wazzen profited during the year he commanded the unit, because he orchestrated all arms deals. The least he could do was to take good care of his «master» when the need arose! The explosion was reported a few minutes after it took place. Elie Hobeika dispatched me to inspect the premises. I was accompanied by the Israeli Liaison officer called «Mandy». As we struggled through the rubble, we saw bits of arms, legs, heads and shoulders strewn among the collapsed pillars. A gray-black cloud of dust and smoke billowed through the neighborhood. The street in front of the collapsed building was crammed with hysterical people crying and bellowing. Sheikh Bashirs wife, Solange, arrived a few minutes after us. Karim Pakradouni, Gemayels close political adviser shuttled in his Range Rover between the explosion site, Rizk Hospital and Hotel Dieu before identifying the President -elects obliterated body. By 6:00 p.m., the tension had become unbearable. The rescue workers were trying to clear the rubble under arc lights. I was there with «Mandy» who could not keep from crying. A wave of hallucinations seemed to take hold of the crowd. Everybody, even the most noted international pressmen, dreamed they had seen an ambulance carrying Bashir away, an ambulance which, in fact, never existed except in their ravaged minds. Later, a helicopter flew overhead and was driven off by the random shooting. Rumors started circulating like a flash in the pan, when somebody in the panic-stricken and angry crowd shouted that it was an Israeli helicopter sent to take Bashir to a hospital in Israel. But none of this was true and we knew it. The Israelis had the confirmation of Bashirs death long before the Lebanese forces did. They had the firm certitude at 8.30 p.m. while the Lebanese Forces command waited until Gemayels body was removed at 10:00 p.m. and carried by a Red Cross ambulance to the Hotel-Dieu. Collective hallucination mixed with mass hysteria and chaos blurred common sense. There, clamped down in front of the battered building, stood aghast rescue workers, family members, mentors, Kataeb party officials, members, supporters, friends, medical teams, military and militiamen. Instead of six years in office, Bashir, had only 23 days, but 23 days during which a myth was born. A myth that would soon become a stumbling block and an element of strife and conflict within the Christian ranks: Christian decision-makers, Lebanese forces, clans, Presidency. The assassination of Bashir Gemayel pushed his tough, ruthless and bloodthirsty lieutenants, and the Israelis into a hysterical rage and enraged them to vow vengeance. Sharon and Begin panicked. It is true that Bashir had disappointed them by turning down their peace treaty proposal, but they knew he would restore peace, law and order and shake off the Palestinian and Syrian tutelage. He was likely to bend in the end because with him they secured, at least a friendly Christian-dominated regime in Lebanon. In the meantime, Gemayels political adviser Karim Pakradouni, and the Lebanese Forces commander Fady Frem had in the meantime agreed to contain the militiamen. Shooting was prohibited. Meetings at the highest levels were held through the night. Beirut Radio, Kataeb Partys Radio Voice of Lebanon, Bashirs Radio Free Lebanon interrupted their usual programs and broadcast classical music without one single comment. The assassination of Bashir Gemayel destroyed the Christians ultimate dream. It sullied Israels honor, undermined American credibility and above all, ushered to an era of bloody inter-Christian feuds, treason and battles that led to the collapse of the power of the Lebanese Christian people who were burnt down by the leaders who took over. CHAPTER 8 On the morning of Wednesday, September 15, 1982, the Lebanese forces met at the Gemayel house in Bickfaya. The house was crammed with mourners, and the attendees decided to run Amin, Bashirs brother, for the president. While all of Lebanons religious, political, military and civilian leaders an
[CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- SHARON THE WAR CRIMINAL Let's see how propaganda works. The test case can be the current attempt by pro-Palestinian groups and individuals to demonize Ariel Sharon as the butcher of Sabra and Shatilla. This has been going on for two decades, but the latest ploy is charging him with war crimes in the international court in Belgium where a Palestinian woman is bringing the charges against the Israeli head of state. This woman was raped and members of her family were brutally massacred by Christian Militiamen who hated the Palestinians for THEIR brutal occupation of Southern Lebanon and the numerous atrocities perpetrated by the great Palestinian fighters who were ultimately driven out by Sharon. Does this woman ( or even ANYBODY ELSE ) bring charges against the known rapists and killers? Of course not. There is no political advantage in doing that. Do you feel the cynicism? This should be seen as politically driven. Not only by the Palestinians (who know the truth and are using the tragedy of Sabra & Shatilla the same way they cynically use the deaths of their own children to achieve the status of super victim), but also those with specific political agenda like the BBC, as well as most of the Euro media who's economies depend on Arab oil from the Middle East, and have no particular intrest in Jews. The Palestinians have gotten to understand that their most receptive mass audience in the West are Liberals. Liberals respond to victimology as Pavlov's dogs responded to bells. They begin to salivate for the opportunity to prove to themselves and other Liberals what good people they are by sympathizing with a perceived victim while actually doing nothing of consequence. This is how the USA and Euro Globalists got a majority of their citizens to back the destruction of Yugoslavia. The aggressors, the Albanian Separatists, were presented as victims of the evil Serbs even though they were paid by the CIA and German Secret Services to start a secessionist revolt in a country which the Globalists wanted to destroy for being a non-Capitalist economy. By doing this, the West's ( war criminal ) media began a one sided exposition of the horrors of civil war. PR firms were hired to plan and manage the " victimization " of the Albanians. This worked splendidly. Gullible Liberals, were the specific target of this campaign because they are the current majorities in both the US and the EU. But being a majority does not mean that they are not shallow and stupid. NATO destroyed an old reliable ally who helped save Europe from Hitler by forcing the Germans to start Barbarosa much later than planned. The Serb rebellion tied up German armor until the Serbs were defeated and sent to concentration camps to die. They were directly responsible for Germany's late winter invasion of Russia. The Albanians ( like the Palestinians ) were Nazi allies. But the Albanians, led by the KLA, were then, and are now the biggest drug dealers in Europe. They are also the major group responsible for for the sex/slave trade of Eastern European girls. Their drug and slave base is in Kosovo. But hey! That's all OK. Why? Because they were accepted as victims. gullible - adj. easily cheated or tricked; credulous n. gullibility adv. gullibly gullible modif. Syn. innocent, trustful, simple; see naive. See credulous, superstitious, trusting Nurev PS: Be sure to read part 2. You will find quite a surprise. + Witness to Sabra and Shatila: why Sharon is a war criminal 15 JUNE 2001 Dr. Ben Alofs http://metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-24/opin/witness_to_sabra.htm I am a Dutch doctor, currently living in north Wales. In the summer of 1982 I was working as a nurse in West Beirut, which at the time was being besieged by the Israeli army. The American negotiator Philip Habib had mediated an agreement, according to which the Israeli army would refrain from occupying West Beirut after the Palestinian fedayeen guerrillas had left. A second fundamental aspect of the agreement was that the United States would guarantee the security of the remaining Palestinian civilian population. The evacuation, supervised by an international peacekeeping force, went smoothly, and was completed on September 1, much earlier than September 26, the date that had been agreed on. The international peacekeeping force left between September 10 and 13. On September 3 the first violation of the Habib agreement took place when Israeli forces occupied Bir Hassan in the southern suburbs of Beirut. Before that, Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon had stated he wanted the peacekeeping forces out of Beirut. After the assassination of Bashir Gemayel, the charismatic and ruthless leader of the Maronite Phalangist allies of Israel, Sharon ordered the invasion of West Beirut under the pretext of restoration of 'law and order'. Contrary to this statement, West Beirut was perfectly quiet at that moment.
