Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/4/99 2:22:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > In communist countries, the people are controlled with > inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusememts. > > Aren't Americans controlled with inflation, fear, lies, > illusions, disease and amusements? > You need to learn what communism is. Your poster has merely taken our government/news propaganda about communism - communism is responsible for all bad stuff. He sees that bad stuff happens in the US. Therefore, America is communist. Read up on political theory. Hint: The US ain't communist. Jerry DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector- Jim Kinney wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > I agree that there are serious problems with the American system. I > agree.. the entire 'rich get richer / poor get poorer' problem that our > nation has fallen into is a horrible state of affairs, Why so? In order to alleviate that "state of affairs," one has to use coercive power to guarantee equal results regardless of mirit, chance, or any other factor. You simply cannot have BOTH "Freedom" and "Equality." And every attempt to may things "even just a bit more equal" requires relinquishing "just a bit more freedom." If we have freedom, then there will inevitably be inequality. If we have equality, then there will inevitably be loss of freedom. Any attempt to violate that principle results in less freedom AND less equality, because the attempt itself is a violation of Natural Law. > Calling our system 'Socialist' or 'Communist' because of an imbalance of > political power is as mistaken as calling the departed U.S.S.R. 'Capitalist' > because there were definitely people who made more than others for an equal > amount of work. But, Sir, "an imbalance of power" is not anything close to a definition of "socialism" or "communism." Nor is the fact that some people are more accomplished at producing wealth than others a definition of "capitalism." An "imbalance of power" could just as well be a monarchy, and "unequal results for equal effort" could describe a slave galley as well as it could General Motors... neither or which advocate nor practice capitalism. > Socialism and Communism, in their idealized forms, do not include that large > disparity of wealth. And, since no such critter has ever been seen, the "idealized forms" of those philosophies are in the same category as the "Tooth Fairy" -- pure fantasy. > The U.S.S.R. did not have a 'true' (read: idealized) form of Communism and > more than the U.S.A. has a 'true' form of Democracy. Where did you get the idea that the United States was designed to be a "true form of democracy"? A "true form of democracy" is perhaps the most despotic and horrendous form of government one could conceive of... In other words, "If my gang is bigger than your gang, we can do whatever-in-the-hell we want to with you and yours." > [snip] We aren't communists or socialists, just deeply screwed up believers in > democracy who have let things go wrong. Speak for yourself, please... At least for my part (and I suppose several others on this list) I am NOT a "believer in democracy." Look it up... "Democracy" means "mob rule." Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector-
I agree that there are serious problems with the American system. I
agree.. the entire 'rich get richer / poor get poorer' problem that our
nation has fallen into is a horrible state of affairs, as are the facts
that the President can now put us into a war whenever he pleases by
simply calling it a 'police action', and that the separation of the
three branches of government is so twisted currently. I simply feel
that the designation of 'Communism' or 'Socialism' for these problems is
a misnomer. 'Fascism' might be a little closer to home, but true
Fascism usually has a huge upswing of Nationalism accompanying it.
Calling our system 'Socialist' or 'Communist' because of an imbalance of
political power is as mistaken as calling the departed U.S.S.R.
'Capitalist' because there were definitely people who made more than
others for an equal amount of work. Socialism and Communism, in their
idealized forms, do not include that large disparity of wealth. The
U.S.S.R. did not have a 'true' (read: idealized) form of Communism and
more than the U.S.A. has a 'true' form of Democracy. Both are very
flawed versions of what they supposedly attempt. But just because an
animal has fleas does not necessarily make it a dog. Semantics are
important here. The words 'Socialism' or 'Communism' in daily usage
have meanings that carry a certain emotional baggage that, while
convincing in an argument, may not be accurate. We aren't communists or
socialists, just deeply screwed up believers in democracy who have let
things go wrong.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 3:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: [CTRL] United States A Communist Nation?
Jim,
I realise this is a little "out-there" but the
Communist/Socialist
influence is and has been imposed on us for many years. From
what I have
found it has grown a hell of a lot since WWII and isn't stopping
or holding
back at all. Everything we say or do is regulated by laws
passed by our
"Congress" as well as our "Presidents." Presidents aren't
supposed to make
laws. We have no separation between the Legislative, Judicial,
and Executive
branches of government. The "checks and balances" have all but
disappeared
and the iron boot on the face of mankind forever is becoming
more evident in
our daily lives.
Consider this: "Are we a Republic?" Do Senators vote on
bills that
would benefit their State? Is the President concerned with the
Constitution
and does he veto bills that are against it. Does the Judiciary
really
consider the Constitution when judging laws? Why do I pay
nearly half the
money I earn to pay taxes that support rich corporate interests
and give
welfare to those who are too lazy to work. No, it's not purely
Communism,
but what do you call it when the rich get richer, the middle
class pays
exorbitant taxes, and the poor just barely get by is it
Statism refined to
incorporate Communism, Socialism and Fascism? Just some
thoughts.
Regards,
Bob Stokes
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are
sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths,
misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and
minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being
said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust
denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Om
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', wi
Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-01-04 14:30:56 EST, you write: << This kind of logic that brings us to: God is love Love is blind Stevie Wonder is blind Therefore Stevie Wonder is God I'm not arguing against the fact that much of America is controlled, deliberately or otherwise, by inflation, fear, lies, etc... Just that the logic which would thereby make us Commies is severely flawed.>> Jim, I realise this is a little "out-there" but the Communist/Socialist influence is and has been imposed on us for many years. From what I have found it has grown a hell of a lot since WWII and isn't stopping or holding back at all. Everything we say or do is regulated by laws passed by our "Congress" as well as our "Presidents." Presidents aren't supposed to make laws. We have no separation between the Legislative, Judicial, and Executive branches of government. The "checks and balances" have all but disappeared and the iron boot on the face of mankind forever is becoming more evident in our daily lives. Consider this: "Are we a Republic?" Do Senators vote on bills that would benefit their State? Is the President concerned with the Constitution and does he veto bills that are against it. Does the Judiciary really consider the Constitution when judging laws? Why do I pay nearly half the money I earn to pay taxes that support rich corporate interests and give welfare to those who are too lazy to work. No, it's not purely Communism, but what do you call it when the rich get richer, the middle class pays exorbitant taxes, and the poor just barely get by is it Statism refined to incorporate Communism, Socialism and Fascism? Just some thoughts. Regards, Bob Stokes DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector- This kind of logic that brings us to: God is love Love is blind Stevie Wonder is blind Therefore Stevie Wonder is God I'm not arguing against the fact that much of America is controlled, deliberately or otherwise, by inflation, fear, lies, etc... Just that the logic which would thereby make us Commies is severely flawed. __ Subj: Re: Young Communists League "bill of rights" Date: 99-01-03 15:57:42 EST From: FTUN In communist countries, the people are controlled with inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusememts. Aren't Americans controlled with inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusements? DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] United States.... A Communist Nation?
-Caveat Lector- > SNETNEWS Mailing List (sent to USCMike1's 8,500+ mailing list - please re-post to your own mailing list) Thanks to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for this post. Subj: Re: Young Communists League "bill of rights" Date: 99-01-03 15:57:42 EST From: FTUN In communist countries, the people are controlled with inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusememts. Aren't Americans controlled with inflation, fear, lies, illusions, disease and amusements? Credit is inflation. Taxes are illusions in a system the Fed said. "works only with credit" All ten planks of Marx's Communist Manifesto were enforced in USA by lawyers and by lawyer-judges long before we began the slaughter of six million human beings in Korea and in Vietnam who had harmed us none and posed no threat to us. 1. "Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose." The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management 2. "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax." misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share". 3. "Abolition of all rights of inheritance." We call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes. 4. "Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels." We call in government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. 5. "Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly." We call it the Federal Reserve which is a credit/debt system nationally organized by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Insurance Corporation (FDIC). 6. "Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State." We call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations. 7. Centralized control over agriculture and industry." "Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. We call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations. 8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture. We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal central bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country. We call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136.> 10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc. People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education". -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -> Posted by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths
