CS: Target-BBC TV Coverage of Shooting Sports at the Olympics
From: "Matthew Wright", [EMAIL PROTECTED] There was a time when snooker was thought boring then it exploded onto the TV etc. It seems to me that clay pigeon has the potential to be developed in the same way. Another aspect of our sport that has great possibilities is gun dog trials, it has all the components, it is exciting to watch its got the tension factor, will the dog find the dummy, he misses it then finds it etc. Also theres strong rivalry between countries in gun dogs etc. Think how popular sheep dog trails were and I think gun dog trials could be much bigger. Matthew Wright -- I've formed the impression that new sports only get onto TV if the cameraman is nice and cosy. Darts, snooker, basketball and so on. All indoor. They don't like being outside because of the rain. Mind you, golf hasn't been on TV all that long, but as Jasper Carot pointed out that was probably only to give all the old searchlight operators something to do in retirement! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Vihtavuori Powders
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Their pistol powder, N310, seems to develop a particularly 'hot' flame front in that I used to experience really severe leading problems in the chamber throats of my SW 686 - but not in the barrel - even with the recommended target load of 2.8 grains of N310 behind a 148 grain GECO lead hollow based wadcutter bullet in a 38 Special case with Winchester or Federal primers. That load produced a muzzle velocity of about 770 ft/sec - checked over my PACT chronograph - and should not have resulted in such leading. The chamber throat dimensions of my pistol were not excessively large either. (I found that 2.7 grains of Hercules - now Alliant - 'Bullseye' powder behind the same bullet in the same cases with the same primers produced far less leading but was a much dirtier 'burn' - leaving smoky deposits all over the gun _ I have loaded many thousands of rounds in 9mm Para using Vihtavuori N310 and fired them in a 1915 Luger without any leading whatsoever and had lots of leading in a Colt Python revolver with any powder including N310. It is a great pity that you no longer have your 686 to test my theory, but it is more than likely that the leading in the throat had been caused by gas cutting. Did you use bullets sized to the exact diameter of the cylinder exit holes? This is crucial in revolvers and the bore size is irrelevant. You would have made the leading worse by using 38Special cases as that would have left you with an annular gap of .125" in front of the case necks. Another common problem I found was that the commercially swaged hollow base wadcutters were too hard and did not readily set up on firing, especially not at 770 ft/sec™, which caused gas cutting unless the loads were stoked up. The leading stopped in my Python with 3.6grs of Bullseye, but the "bang" and recoil made precision shooting more difficult and I was starting to get occasional split skirts. However, with home swaged hollow base wadcutters, swaged from pure lead wire, I did not get any leading with 2.6 grs of N310, because they were soft and obturated the bore perfectly. I used to clean the cylinder and barrel on the average every 500 rounds and find no leading anywhere. This is now theoretical, but if you are getting any leading at all something is wrong somewhere and the accuracy will deteriorate fairly rapidly. This is even more critical in full bore rifles. Firing bullets sized only .001" smaller that the throat means that one is dead lucky to hit the target at all at 200 yds. Alex -- Another point I'd like to point out here is that powder can vary from lot to lot. Sometimes it can even be a completely different powder altogether, I seem to recall Accurate Arms did this, they completely changed the powder but called it the same name! I had some American Eagle .22 that was awesome, but the current batch I have seems to have been loaded with curry powder or something similar. Anyway, Richard does have his 686 so maybe he can try out your suggestions! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Olympics Air Rifle Men
From: SSAA, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1st Yallim Cai - China 696.4 2nd Artem Khadjibek.- Russia 695.1 3rd Evueni Aleinikov - Russia 693.8 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-limp response to request for club details
From: "Neil Francis", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a similar story to things tried in the past. The UK Shooting Web Ring at http://pages.hotbot.com/sports/ukgunring/index.html was set up by an enthusiast to try and encourage clubs and individuals to bind together. A look thru the sites list shows mainly individuals, a few clubs, and of course no organisations. This was despite a fairly intensive email campaign about 12 months ago to get clubs to improve their WWW presence. BTW - I see you are supported by the likes of The NRA, BASC, UKPSA etc and link to their pages - I can't see any links back to The ShootersWeb pages from any of these organisations however - or did I just not look hard enough? Maybe they are only using uni-directional links. In the virtual world of The ShootersWeb, if support is not via links, just what is it by? Just how are The NRA and BASC endorsing this site? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-BBC TV Coverage of Shooting Sports at the Olympics
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If anyone is seriously going to suggest that shooting, any kind of shooting, on TV is less interesting than watching two "sportsmen" chucking darts at a board or the almost blanket coverage of Curling in the last winter Olympics then put me up as a training target for running boar (no jokes about bore please). An air rifle event was covered very well by Eurosport earlier this year with small lasers attached to the weapons giving a trace of the hold pattern which changed colour at the moment of release. Also given the incredibly small size that cameras are down to now it's only going to take a bit of effort on someones part to improve coverage markedly. I'd suggest that the Beeb would be the best one's to hassle as they are loosing the larger profile sports at a rate of knots. Brian T -- I don't think they are worth bothering with because they are so anti-gun it is pointless. They have now taken to giving anti-gun titles to every news story on their website possible, even when it is unrelated to guns per se. Better to vote with your feet and get Sky Digital and write a letter to your MP asking for TV licensing to be scrapped IMO. Commercial enterprises have to listen, the BBC doesn't. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-BBC TV Coverage v Sky
From: "Neil Roberts", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Having just watched yet another BBC round up of the Olympics (10.30PM Sunday). A brief mention that Ian Peel won Silver. Yet every other medal winner had an interview, some footage of their competition and a look at their gong. Compare this to the Sky coverage, interview with Ian, brief coverage of the event and a look at the gong. Letters in the post to the BBC surely. Neil -- They did interview him on the BBC, right after he won it. I can't wait to see what Jack Straw makes of this as he is Ian Peel's MP! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Plate Shooting
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, I have heard today that St. Nicholas Club in Chislehurst, cancelled an Open Day Shoot and wrote to each entrant explaining that "they did not wish to be associated with plate shooting". I have to confess that, having shoot plates once, I found it rather boring but there was nothing there to make me wish not to "associate myself" with that form of shooting. Have I missed something? Alex -- Huh? And huh again? I think shooting steel plates is great fun, more of it the better I say, and all I can say is that this club in Chislehurst must be staffed by a bunch of boring old farts! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Sidearms 1940
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I discovered this item in the Daily Telegraph (microfilm in the local reference library) for May 28 1940 p. 5: "Revolvers May Be Carried: The War Office has given permission to officers on leave and on duties at home to carry their revolvers as part of their dress equipment. Many officers have taken advantage of this concession. The reason for it is understood to be that in the war of movement now taking place officers preferred to carry their revolvers with them, since there were few places where they could be safely left when temporarily free of duty." What was happening at the time was that troops had returned home from the Norwegian withdrawal on 2 May, 28 May was about halfway through Operation Dynamo so troops were coming back from Dunkerque, and Winston Churchill had just become Prime Minister on 20 May 1940. I recall my uncle's comment that officers tired from the fighting overseas were being stripped of their sidearms at the British ports by MPs and Customs Officers carrying sidearms - who had of course NOT just been risking their necks for their country. It smacked - or rather stank - of the kind of government they were supposed to be fighting against. Churchill was a regular pistol-carrier himself and saw no reason why everyone shouldn't do it. Does anyone know what part of all the pistols that the British government issued during WW2 was accounted for at the end of WW2? Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-limp response to request for club details
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Neil, As the site has only been up for three days none of the organisations have linked to us yet. They have all pledged their support but have not added links as yet because there was nothing to link to! We have had a few emails asking us when the site will be ready so that they can add links, and they have all offered to help us in any way they can, but at the moment we feel it is slightly unfair to ask them to link to us anyway, as we can only offer links to nine clubs (yes, four more clubs have responded since Saturday night!). What about you, Neil? Would you like your club listed? We can only make this work if people are willing to help us. We have been planning the launch of this site for a few weeks now - we still are - but we can't launch the site with only nine links on it! Once we have more than 50 we will launch the site proper, and only then will we ask organisations to link to us. Several other organisations, not listed, have offered to link to the site but are not willing to 'endorse' any sites not owned by themselves. Fair enough. We don't make any false claims. We approached the organisations in order to help get through shooters' paranoia (several said that they would only go through official channels to list their club, so we wanted to make Shooters' Web an 'official channel') and asked them if they would be willing to support us for that very reason. We made it very clear that we are not a charity and will not be asking for any financial contribution from clubs or organisations towards the running of the site. However, we wanted to be able to say that we had the support of several organisations to encourage trust and a good feeling between ourselves and shooters. Kudos, if you like. We wanted to show that we too were willing to go through the 'proper channels'. As for web rings, have you ever seen one that actually _works_? Or that is maintained? It's a good idea in theory, but most people don't want a whacking great webring logo on the bottom of a page. I might add a webring to a personal page, but never to a 'professional' page. Thanks for your support. Kate PS the email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] works now - if anyone got an error message yesterday, do please try again. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Olympics Womens Trap Final
From: SSAA, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1st Daina Gudzinevitiute - Lithuania 93 2nd Delphine Racinet - France 92 3rd E Goa - China 90 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: Peter H Jackson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Jackson knows what a miniature rifle round's maximum dimensions are, but generally speaking .22 rimfire is the only common round that fits that description. I would add the following to the good points made by Guy and others: 1. There's not much case law, because although the S 11(4) exemption is widely used, it has not been abused. 2. When claiming a statutory exemption, the burden of proof is usually reversed - i.e. you must be able to prove that you are entitled to use it. 3. John McKay's 1972 Home Office Working Party on the Control of Firearms considered that the S 11(4) exemption extends to "certain powerful military weapons" gasp. However, Mckay's 200+ page report still remains unpublished, not least because it contains such a load of ill-informed rubbish. I certainly wouldn't wish to rely on it in a court of law. Rgds, Peter. www.jacksonrifles.com -- Bill Harriman told me about a TV interview he did with Lord McKay, in which McKay was moaning on about deactivated guns and how the police were totally opposed to them and how they were shooting people wielding them in crime (which is almost certainly untrue BTW, there is no recorded instance of a deactivated firearm being recovered after an armed crime according to the Home Office), and McKay produced a deactivated Model 10 and pointed out the sins of how it would be mistaken for a working gun. So Bill looked at it and commented: "Hmm, well it says 'Property of the Metropolitan Police' on the grip, so if the police are so worried why are they selling them off to gun dealers?" !!! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-US told its gun culture is based on myth
From: George Steffner, [EMAIL PROTECTED] As I've noted many times, this argument continues indefinitely because we were never told the whole truth in our American History classes. The Federalists, who sponsored the Constitution, wanted the militia under tight federal control so it could be used to protect the interests of the Federalist bankers and merchants. They had experienced Shays's rebellion -- a nearly successful rebellion against Massachusetts banking practices -- shortly before. So their interest was to have a "well regulated select corps" (i.e. National Guard type militia) under their indoctrination to put down any further rebellions. What the schools failed to teach -- and what the anti-gun people won't recognize -- is that the anti-Federalists, who sponsored the Bill of Rights, were very worried about the that "well regulated select corps" and demanded "the people" be armed to fight it, if necessary. Even I did not realize that, until I read Federalist Paper No. 29. I, like everyone else, had assumed the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" was to facilitate that "well regulated militia." Only after I studied that Paper did I understand what was really intended by the Second Amendment. It actually means that, since a "well regulated [select corps]" is being accepted, the "right of the people to keep and bear arms [for defense against it] shall not be infringed." This secret has always been kept from us for obvious reasons. The "federalists," who have controlled this country since the Civil War, don't want us to know there ever was such a concern. They know we will worry about it too, as well we should. George Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Plate Shooting
From: "Kay, Martin (DEI)", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I hope this does not mean that the bunny huggers have convinced the Club Committee that "plates" are on the endangered species list along with the clay pigeon.. Regards Martin Kay Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Mini Rifle Range thank you
From: "David Rovardi", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a quick note to say thanks for the info provided from all on cybershooters. Once again I have found you all an invaluable source of info. If we can keep this up perhaps we can save shooting in this country! regards David Rovardi Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
