CS: Pol-History of Gun Ownership in USA
From: "Michael Burke", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Joyce Lee Malcolm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]"), a professor of history at >Bentley College and a >senior fellow in the MIT Security Studies Program, is the author of To Keep >and Bear Arms: The >Origins of an Anglo-American Right (Harvard). I have sent some information on our right to arms in England to Professor Malcolm for her consumption. Previous efforts to contact her have failed. I'll let you know if she replies. Her book, mentioned above, is flawed because her research concluded that the Bill of Rights gave us rights. A judgement of mine in the Court of Appeal, confirms that the Bill of Rights was "declaratory" of common law. I have sent her information on several cases which upheld the right to arms and reminded her of the Emerson case because my first judgement confirms an individual right to arms. The following extract is from one of the documents I sent her. It is taken from the Commons Journals whilst agreeing the content of The Declaration of Rights. Arms:- Initial list of 28 General Heads (2nd Feb 1688 p17 HCJ) "It is necessary for the public safety, that the Subjects which are protestants, should provide and keep arms for their common defence: and that the Arms which have been seized, and taken from them, be restored. Agreed." So there you have it, a right to arms, necessary for the public safety Regards, Mike Burke. -- Well, the Bill of Rights was necessary to restore rights to Protestants that had been abrogated by James II, I learned that in school! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Police Federation
From: "Dave", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does the fact that the police now routinely carry CS gas sprays, which are classed as section 5 firearms, mean that they are now a "standing army" and therefore in breach of the "Bill of Rights"? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: "Jim Franklin", [EMAIL PROTECTED] [.] The benefit of such heat-shrunk tubes on big guns was that cracking was progressive and not immediately disastrous. [.] The very largest naval guns were made from 4 tubes. The liner with the rifling was pressed into an "A tube" by hydraulics. Wire was then wound on the outside of this compound tube under tension. Latter guns had a combination of round and flatterned wire. The outer or "B tube" was then fitted after heating and allowed to shrink fit. All this pressure on the inner liner left the innermost layers of the liner in compression. Thus on firing, the metallic layers on the inside had to progress back though compression to a point of nil stress before being put into tension. This reduced fatigue and the flaking of rifling. This positive stress is now days achieved in large ordnance by "autofrettaging", ie. pressing a steel slug down the barrel, taking the inner layers passed their elastic limit but leaving them in compression from the residual stress in the outer layers. These artillery and tank barrels are of monoblock construction. The shinking pits at the Ordnance Factory at Woolwich were still around at the time of its closure in 1962. I think I can safely say that it would not be possible to make such huge guns today. The knowledge is just not around, indeed the capability to make them only lasted from say the early 1900s to the mid 1930s, one generation of craftsmen. Jim Franklin Orpington KENT. UK PGP key on request -- The knowledge to make rifle barrels is going to be a lost art at the rate we're going! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Gun Powder
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > There was an article in Gun Digest a few years ago about > how the guerillas in Afghanistan were making primers out > of nitrocellulose film that was a pretty interesting read. > > Steve. I remember reading a Guns Review article some years ago about people in an arms dealing town in Pakistan scraping off match heads to fill cartridge cases with. Always meant to try it but never got round to it, perhaps one day. Jonathan Laws. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've seen large naval guns referred to as rifles. Is this just an American expression or was it used in the Royal Navy as well? Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-deadly doctors
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:stats/gun control > > Number of physicians in the US = 700,000 > Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year = 120,000 > Accidental deaths per physician = 0.17 (U.S. Dept. of Health & Human > Services) > > Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000 > Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) = 1,500 > Accidental deaths per gun owner = 0.188 > (U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms) > > Therefore, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more > dangerous than gun owners. > > Taken from the Benton County News Tribune on the seventeenth of > November, 1999. Please pass this on - you may surprise a lot > of your friends! > > So if gun owners kill doctors will lives be saved??? -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Liberty: Live it . . . or lose it. =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Theft from Cornish Shooting Association
From: "SA Mail", [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Time: Tue, 19-Dec-2000 11:17:22 GMT IP: 141.163.210.29 > > Some time between Sunday 10 and Sunday 18 December 2000, the > Duchy Shooting Association range near Zelah in Cornwall was > burgled. I am placing this message in case anyone hears of items > like those that were stolen being offered around. > > We lost: > About 6,000 clays > An Acorn battery-operated trap (takes 50 clays) > 3 leads for activating such traps > A brand new 3.5 kVa Honda generator (only run for a couple of > minutes - bought to replace the last one, which was also stolen) > A petrol-engined cement mixer > A few other bits and pieces. > > The members of the club have been working hard to make > improvements, including a new clubroom and improved facilities, > and it was heartbreaking to arrive for our Christmas shoot and > find things either gone or smashed. > > If you hear of anything that sounds as if it may be connected, > please contact Vic Rice on 01752 789513 or email > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-BBC kills deer unlawfully
From: "David M", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Makes you wonder just how the human race actually did survive before the invention of firearms doesn't it. Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Oh yes, politically correct castaways. They should last about five minutes by trying to be environmentally sound etc. Following on from this correspondence I actually made the effort to watch a bit of an episode of Castaways which is currently showing in New Zealand last night. All I can say is that it fits in well with the ABYSMAL level of utter rubbish that passes for television in this country. What a whining bunch of no-hopers. They seem to want everything done for them and then complain constantly that it's not right. Not one of them would last five minutes if they really were cast away. Come to think of it they are much like a large section of our population who make claiming the dole a way of living! Regards and compliments of the season to all, David. -- I haven't watched the English version but the German version on RTL is more a mix of a soap opera and a holiday show than anything to do with survival. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Firing flat: no, I wasn't talking about modifications to the bows. By "dished" I mean a retro-fitted concave area in the main deck to allow the gun barrels to get down flat when firing sideways where the original design hadn't allowed that. Plunging fire: logically if you wanted to avoid being hit on your thin main deck plates by plunging fire you'd get in close so the enemy fire would go across/over you. And if you wanted to make your fire plunge you'd set your guns at high elevation and decrease your powder charges. Barrel construction: I believe heat shrunk tubes were set over the breech area and the wire-winding was over the rest of the barrel. I've seen photos of such guns being cut up with the wire-winding sticking out after a gas torch cut down the length of the barrel. The benefit of such heat-shrunk tubes on big guns was that cracking was progressive and not immediately disastrous. I'd imagine that aircraft carriers were as complex as battleships in their construction. It's an interesting subject! Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Misleading Police Federation Website.
From: "trustu", [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.polfed.org/main_frame.htm > > Firearms > > The Police Federation was the first to call for a ban on the private > ownership and possession of all handguns. Oh really ? Like many others from the shooting community, I attended the evidential sessions of the Home Affairs Select Committee inquiry into the possession of handguns in May 1996. The official records of those proceedings show that the Police Federation OPPOSED an outright ban on the civilian ownership of handguns. This being formally stated to the committee and presented in written form. ACPO also opposed a ban. The only dissenting voice came from Chief Super Mackenzie of the Superintendents Association. The same association of which Superintendent McMurdo was a member ( well, what a surprise ! ). Only two weeks later, Mackenzie forced a closed doors meeting with ACPO & the Police Fed. No minutes were taken, but the result was that from that time all the police associations changed their minds and decided to support a ban. Colin Greenwood reported the matter in Guns Review of that summer and the chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, Sir Ivor Lawrence, denounced the Police Federation`s new found position as "lacking all credibility". For the Police Federation to now claim that they were the first to demand the banning of handguns is a gross falsehood. Perhaps the police officers on our list would like to contact the Federation and ask why it is reduced to telling lies ? Stuart. -- Their written evidence to the HAC in 1996 did call for a handgun ban, it's in the appendices. ACPO didn't, but as soon as the tories announced it they suddenly changed their minds. The PSA didn't support a ban until then either, they wanted all the guns locked up at clubs. That was when any respect I had for ACPO went out the window. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Calif Assault Weapon Deadline
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/california/stories/mgunreg_20001216.htm > > > >Published Saturday, December 16, 2000 > > >State's assault weapons ban confusing, gun group claims >The NRA plans to challenge regulations imposed by Attorney General Bill >Lockyer >By Emily Bazar >SCRIPPS-MCCLATCHY NEWS SERVICE --big snip-- >"The most important part of the law is really not the gun owners and whether >they register and what the regulations are," Tolley said. "The most important >part of the law to us is that the weapons won't be sold in California >anymore." >-- >Then why require them to be registered? The mind boggles. > >Steve. Steve, & Mike, It really is too bad that such crap takes place. But, it is a classic example of people who, on the one hand, don't give a rat's arse about what affects the lives of yet other people, and could care less that those other people's rights are being suppressed (and so therefore do nothing to object to such crassness in the face of the truth), and still other people yet who are determined to oppress certain subsets of their fellow citizens, merely because they feel an urge to brutally oppress them, in ways that can only be described as invidiously and psychologically cruel. To know that a right has been suppressed with a defective law, and done so wantonly, willfully, and with malice aforethought, can only invite the kind of hatred which inspired the law to begin with. These despicable sorts in California, have knowingly gloated over their successes. That kind of response to enacting a law can only be the best kind of indicator that the law was in fact not a lawful enactment, but a most perverse instrument of deception, retribution, and repression. Deception because, it achieves nothing of its supposed benefit; retribution because, most firearms owners campaigned against the motivators of the law; and repression because, the citizens who exercise their rights are singled out for spiteful and hateful acts under color of law. Honest people of integrity, do not celebrate the denial of something, merely because they were successful at outlawing it. Celebration is a knowing, and conscious act which marks an occasion in passing. It, placed in its proper light, is nothing less than gloating, and jeering at those whose lives are possibly forever changed. How can such celebrations be anything other than an indicator that the law was nothing less than vindictive, and in its essence, a self-serving vehicle of spite? That, more than anything else, is reason enough to overturn those laws, every damned one of them. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Liberty: Live it . . . or lose it. =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET -- The problem in California is that the committees involved with guns are totally comprised of Democrats from urban areas. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Gun Powder
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] The "chestnuts" item was interesting but may have been only part of the story. Chinese pirates around Malaya in the early 1950's were using powdered atap (kind of palm tree) nuts and brown sugar (doesn't settle when vibrated) as a propellant powder. Also various kinds of "bungs" similar in use to shotgun wads - and saboted concrete cannon-balls. Natives were also using this mix in their shotguns and reloading rifle cartridges with it. I've not tried this personally but I'm told a lot of organic materials when mixed with sugar can be used as gun powders - that includes powdered milk, dessicated liver etc. Certainly organic dusts will explode in air - coal dust and flour dust explosions being the commonest. It's conceivable that ground chestnuts were being used experimentally as gun powder and/or explosives in shells. Lyddite - I'm told this was not used as a propellant but as a bursting charge - it doesn't explode fast enough to break up the shell case but works fine to spray metal balls. I'm told it's organic material (rotting animal corpses dried and powdered) which has been nitrated (simply mixed with concentrated nitric acid). To avoid corroding the shell cases the nitration was not total. So you got decayed animal powder mixed up with the exploding nitrated decayed animal powder - producing a dense brown smoke when the shell went off. You also got vermin living in Lyddite and eating it when it was out of its shell. I'm also told the story that Lyddite had been made in France from dried and powdered human corpses went around the trenches and inclined the troops to approve the temporary burial of their comrades in the trenches where they fell - which temporary burial has so far become permanent. Disgracefully. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org -- There was an article in Gun Digest a few years ago about how the guerillas in Afghanistan were making primers out of nitrocellulose film that was a pretty interesting read. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Dover guns
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Turpitz was attacked more than once by 617 Squadron and 9 Squadron. The in last pair of attacks she was first severely damaged, then the Germans moved her South to be emplaced as a massive coastal battery. It was here that she received at least one direct hit from a 6-ton 'Tallboy' bomb and several near misses and subsequently capsized. After the war it was discovered that a Fleet Air Arm raid on her from carriers in 1943 had effectively ended her wartime career as an ocean going fighting ship as her main electrical switching and communications centre had been destroyed beyond repair. It was patched together so she could move but she would nver have been able to undertake an ocean voyage and fight. One of the Germans best kept secrets, if the Royal Navy had known it would have affected all naval planning for the convoys to Russia and all major activities in the North Atlantic, allowing much of the Home Fleet to be re-deployed for offensive action rather than covering for a breakout led by the Turpitz. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG Naval guns are simply THE biggest big boys toys! I will bet that nearly everyone of us on this list is an inveterate fiddler in either engineering, computers or some such activity. I think shooting attracts the mechanically/technically minded. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Police Federation
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I've always thought this poll is completely meaningless because it >is a poll of a sample of all police officers. If they did a poll >purely of patrol officers who patrol high-crime urban areas I >suspect the results would be very different. Steve, The poll was suspect as you say because apparently many voting papers were not delivered on time. They were the papers destined for high crime areas surprisingly enough. BTW the reason why British police are not routinely armed is because of the Bill of Rights prohibition on standing armies in peacetime. Parliament in 1829, when the first Metropolitan Police Act was debated, were quite clear on that. The current Federation hierarchy conveniently forget that and fail to acknowlege that police are citizens with no special priveliges relating to defensive weaponry. According to Superintedent Waldrons "Londons Armed Police" there were occasions in the early years where constables were disciplined for exercising their RKBA with firearms. Regards, John Hurst. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns/Maximum Range
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Jonathan's figures say maximum range was produced with >35 deg elevation, not 29 deg. I did wonder if anyone was watching! :-) But the difference was a mere 11 yards (or 0.75 of 1 per cent) over a 4,500 yard (2-1/2 mile) distance - hardly worth the quibble IMO. >Slippery answer there >from Jonathan, obviously a good man in court. Not I. I give it straight down the line, and I don't care whether it helps or harms either side's case. --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Drill Purpose designation
From: "Kay, Martin (DEI)", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would say the subject P14 should not be used without qualified, professional inspection involving removal of the forend woodwork. In my early days as an apprentice in the RAF we had in the barrack rooms racks of No4 rifles with a hole about 3/8 inch diameter drilled vertically through the barrel and forend woodwork just forward of the breech area. I have no idea what, if indeed anything, was done in those distant days to the bolts, it was certainly possible to work the bolt and dry fire as part of standard drill. The rifles were stamped "DP" in several places, it would not be beyond the ingenuity of man to bodge some sort of cosmetic repair to the hole, presenting a real hazard to anyone who managed to fire it. Regards Martin Kay Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Drill Purpose designation
From: nick royall, [EMAIL PROTECTED] They would have been condemned en masse rather than individually, as were the No4 and then the L81 cadet rifle because one was duff. I think you will find that most of them had nothing wrong with them whatsoever. In the UK it is easy to get them checked out with the proof house as said before. A .303 gauge set for headspace and throat must be commonly available just about anywhere. Nick Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Naval Guns/Maximum Range
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes the Royal Navy took heavy losses in the Med to aircraft but almost none to medium/high level bombers, the damage was inflicted by low level, dive bomber and torpedo bomber attacks. The harrowing story of the final evacuation from Crete and the damage inflicted on some of the British cruisers after they ran out of AA ammunition is a vivid demonstration of air power on naval tactics in WW2. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Police Federation
From: "Cleland Rogers", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I worked in the Royal Hong Kong Police with many ex UK police officers. When asked, most of them said that their attitude changed markedly when they joined a routinely armed force. The prevailing attitude of most UK police towards the carriage of firearms seems to be based on the 'hassle factor' and the likelihood of getting into administrative bother by losing it/breaking it/using it. I think that most have not really thought the matter through and see the gun on the belt as something that will alienate them from the public they are meant to serve. I can tell you that in my 13 years as a police officer in Hong Kong and N.I. I have never found that to be the case. In fact the mere presence of firearms and the implied threat of their use can often help resolve potentially violent situations before they escalate to the point where the use of lethal force becomes a consideration. Cleland Rogers Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
