CS: Pol-The march in March
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why have you never ridden? Because a serious accident I was involved in years ago has left me incapable of sitting with my back unsupported for anything more than a few minutes without debilitating pain. Whether it's a saddle, a stool or a bale of straw makes no difference. As a result the majoritty of the 'hunting' I do is for hares, either following beagles or basset hounds, or else coursing. Why do the scruffy ordinary Joes always following on foot or in their cars. Why are the scruffy ordinary Joes never riding to the hounds? Obviously I can only speak for those that I am acquainted with. Some of their reasons are as follows - # Don't like horses # Too old still to be riding # Like riding but don't like jumping # Horse injured, in foal or otherwise temporarily out of action # Horse been stolen and can't afford to replace it # Inexperienced rider and don't feel sufficiently confident # Tried it but prefer to be on foot because you can see more of the actual hunt that way And my milkman falls into both camps. He doesn't like being mounted when there's a big field out, so he's on horseback - looking very smart - at the midweek meetings which tend to be quieter, but on a Saturday when there are a lot more people out, he's in his car wearing his scruffy old jeans. And of course there are dozens of packs of hounds where _none_ of the followers are mounted, even if they would like to be. All the beagles, basset hounds and minkhounds for starters, plus all the foxhunting footpacks from Wales and the fells. I put it to you the scruffy ordinary Joes would soon go find something else to follow, hence fulfilling their 'follower' needs. So banning hunting would only effect the 'toffs' that the original poster remarked on. The implication that banning hunting won't affect footfollowers is completely untrue. I know scores of 'ordinary' people who hunt on foot who would be every bit as devastated if their sport is banned as all pistol shooters were post Dunblane. I may be wrong but it seems to me that you are saying it's OK to legislate against 'toffs'. How do you define a 'toff' anyway? Someone who speaks with a pound of plums in their mouth? They can't help the way they speak any more than can a Geordie or a Brummie. Or is a 'toff' someone with a certain amount of money? Like Sir Paul McCartney perhaps, or maybe Carol Vorderman? Certainly not in my book. Or is a toff someone who is arrogant? I'm sure we can all think of plenty of 'celebrities' and MPs who fall into that category. Whatever a 'toff' means to you, you can't legislate against them any more than you can against blacks, gays or Jews. Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] any of the other legal methods of control.) It's because some people are revolted by the fact that other people go hunting for enjoyment, and also because it's still perceived to be the sole preserve of the idle rich and it's a good way of indulging in a bit of toff bashing. Sounds like a good enough reason to me. What is wrong with this? Neil Francis Trowbridge, UK -- a) Just because you find something distasteful is not a good enough reason to prevent other people who happen to enjoy that activity from engaging in it. b) The perception that hunting is the sole preserve of the wealthy is way off the mark. Go to any meet and for every toff on horseback you'll see half a dozen scruffy ordinary Joes who are following on foot or in their car. I'm a case in point - I've been hunting for nearly twenty years yet never once have I ridden to hounds nor have I ever had much more than two brass farthings to my name. Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The march in March
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's what I think, anyway. I could be wrong (it does happen occasionally), but I have to do what I think is right, even if everyone else seems to disagree(including people who I respect). If anyone would like to post any counter-arguments I'll read them, though I can't guarantee a reply, for the reasons already stated - though I can guarantee to consider any sensible argument. But unless you can persuade me I'm wrong, the position at the moment is that I'll be spending 18th March in Manchester, same as usual. Stuart Heal Quiet loner with an arsenal of weapons. http://olympia.fortunecity.com/naseem/170/ -- You state that "the chase itself has to be extremely stressful". You also say that you've never ridden to hounds and don't think you'd learn anything by doing so. If you've never experienced it for yourself, on what basis are you drawing your conclusion that the chase has to be stressful? I can only assume that in your opinion you _think_ it must be stressful. If you had been hunting you would have seen for yourself that both foxes and hares will act completely nonchalantly even when the hounds are as close as a minute behind. Among other things they will stop to groom themselves, they will stop to drink, hares are frequently seen to stop and begin feeding, and have even been seen mating while hounds are hunting their line. None of these things suggest an animal under extreme duress. Let's not forget that for a wild animal to run away from danger is the most natural thing in the world. It seems extremely unlikely that a hare or a fox makes much distinction between different types of danger. Consider two fox control scenarios - a) A group of farmers beating with dogs to flush foxes from cover to waiting guns b) A huntsman using foxhounds to flush foxes from cover to be hunted Does the fox in a) feel any less stress than the one in b) at the moment at which it decides to make a run for it? I doubt it very much. Or what about the fox that you meet wandering along a hedgerow when you're out for a walk with your dog? I maintain that in each of those situations the fox just thinks 'Hell, time to get out of here'. As soon as it has got what it perceives to be a safe distance from its persuer it will stop running. That is precisely what happens during the course of a hunt. The hunted hare or fox runs till it thinks it's safe, then pulls up and just gets on with its normal business.The hounds have either lost it or they're still on its line. If the latter, as soon as they get too close for comfort off goes the quarry again till once more it feels safe and pulls up. (I say this with certainty as I have been hunting many times and seen it with my own eyes.) This stop/start affair keeps up for most of the hunt. I would argue that at no point during this process is the quarry under any stress at all. It is simply doing what every single wild bird or animal does every day in order to survive - running from danger. It is only in the very last stages of a hunt when the hounds close in that there is any possibility of stress. But I would argue that even at that point it is still completely natural. Watch just about any natural history programme and you will see countless examples of insects, birds or animals chasing and killing other insects, birds, or animals. You might find it disagreeable but the unescapeable reality is that nature is indeed 'red in tooth and claw'. The _real_ reason that hunting is under threat has nothing to do with animal welfare. (The Govt's own enquiry, the Burns Report, has found nothing to suggest that hunting is any more cruel than any of the other legal methods of control.) It's because some people are revolted by the fact that other people go hunting for enjoyment, and also because it's still perceived to be the sole preserve of the idle rich and it's a good way of indulging in a bit of toff bashing. Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interestingly if you run over a dog in your car, lorry or other vehicle (and kill the dog) you legally MUST report it to the police. If it is a cat? Nothing. Running over and killing a cat does not require reporting the fact to the police. Is this still the case? I know the reason for reporting the death of a dog but not a cat was because dogs were (supposed to be) licensed, which cats never have been. But now that the dog licence has been abolished presumably the rationale for reporting a run-over dog no longer exists? But I'm only guessing. Does anybody know for certain? Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting Ban
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course one thing that few people ever mention about controlling foxes is cage trapping. It is humane and very efficient. Efficient maybe, but humane? I'm not sure I can agree with that. It's the most natural thing in the world for any wild animal to run away from danger. They do it all the time. But there's nothing natural about being trapped in a cage. I would imagine the stress of being suddenly caged and unable to escape must be quite considerable. A fox thus caught would have to endure this level of stress for several hours. If caught early on a winter's night with the trap not checked until daybreak it could conceivably be as long as 15 hours. Compare this with a hunted fox. It is in it's own natural environment, doing what comes perfectly naturally, simply running away from danger. I would argue that the actual level of stress suffered by the hunted fox is dramatically less than that suffered by the one caught in a cage trap. Andrew Chastney Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-how to deal with roadkill
From: "Andrew Chastney", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
