CS: Pol-BBC Question Time
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Question Time will be in London, at the beginning of March (8th), seeing that the March is the weekend after the show, it would be worth som of us being in the audience. Infact it would be worth having some shooters at every Question Time show, to point out the truth behnd the "spin" EW http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/question_time/default.stm [EMAIL PROTECTED] AUDIENCE APPLICATION BBC QUESTION TIME Thank you for your interest in taking part in Question Time. Would you please fill in the following details. Your response will be completely confidential, but they will enable us to invite a representative cross-section of people. 1. Name and address Full name: Your address: Your Postcode: Your Phone number: Daytime Evening Mobile Fax Email address: 2. Have you been on Question Time before? Yes No If yes, when? Month Year 3. How old are you? 16-24 25-34 35-44 45-54 55-64 65+ 4. What is your occupation? 5. Which of the following categories best describes your occupation? Senior Management Middle/Jnr. Management Clerical/Administration Skilled Manual Unskilled Manual Student Housewife Unemployed 6. During the series, we shall be visiting London and various cities and towns around the country. Would you please name the venues most convenient for you. 7. If there were a General Election tomorrow, which political party would you be most likely to vote for? Conservative Labour Liberal Democrats Green Scottish National Plaid Cymru Ulster Unionist Democratic Unionist Sinn Fein Social Democrat Labour Alliance Would not vote Undecided Other (please state) 8. Which of these groups do you consider yourself to belong to? White West Indian Indian Pakistani Chinese African Mixed Origin Other (please specify) 9. Do you consider yourself to have any disabilities? Yes No 10. If you are disabled, do you require wheelchair access? Yes No 11. Are you a member of a political party? Yes No 12. You will be invited to put forward two questions. Would you please confirm that you are willing to participate. Yes No Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Press Quote By Philosopher
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The press today is an army with carefully organised weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. Oswald Spengler (1880 - 1936) German philosopher "The Decline of the West," vol. 2, ch. 12, sct. 4, 1926 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Face values..
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did anyone else see "Murder Detectives" on Tues eve on Channel 5? The Forensic Entomologist (I think!) was called in to deal with the forensics surrounding a corpse that had been found in Hawaii. To do this he looks at the insects life cycle in order to ascertain the date time of death. The scientist drove up to the site, on...a Harley Davidson...with the uniform of a Biker - Leather jacket "Live To Ride", long white hair, gold chain earring. Not the stereotypical "Forensic Scientist" maybe, but he is one of the best in his field of expertise. Freedom of expression obviously needs to be "acceptable" in certain area's of life. We get bad press because the media see "Gun Camo = Soldier" What would our press say about this scientist? "Biker peels bugs off dead body" "Hell's Scientist or Hell's Angel?" "Bug crazy biker" In business, people wear a smart suit - that's the expected uniform it is an identifying characteristic that you see think "Business Person" In the lab, Volcanologists wear white coats, but when climbing the volcano, they wear the (practical) uniform of a mountaineer In this society, we are what other people see assume, correctly or not, the uniform can also be a commanding, intimidating or selling factor eg. An Army officer, Policeman's uniform = commanding The SAS black coveralls uniform in the Iranian Embassy Assault = intimidating The clothing of a "Lady of the Night" = selling The clothing worn at a Trap shooting competition / Olympics/ IPSC etc all state "Sportsman" the media may not have covered the Olympic shooting (only mentioning Richard Foulds after he won gold), BUT They cannot denigrate because the "Uniform" clearly states "SPORTSMAN" The Antis could never attack a Sportsman in Uniform at the Olympics with their lies have them stick But if Mr Foulds was not in uniform.What happened after the OlympicsA newly moved in resident (moved in from a town!) to his village, complained of the "Noise Shooting Makes" - Does she want to live near a WORLD CHAMPION or not? or does she want to live next to an Ex-World Champion claim credit for making him an Ex-World Champion (I hear she's moving away now?) Herein lies our problem, we are INDIVIDUALS who are a family in a sport, WE HAVE NO UNIFORM Except at competitions. Maybe whenever we shoot, we should wear the Competitive Clothing that is designed for shooters be proud of it as a Uniform Maybe we should all wear the Competitive Clothing on the March In March then we would all be promoting the visual impact of SPORTSPERSONS on all Media coverage we receive. (Views?) EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-March in March Quote
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Those claiming that gun ownership is only a privilege and not a right are in fact reserving the right to deny that privilege Picked up from a NG EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Reloading Kit Questions
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Came across a web page that may be of use to reloaders in the UK - they seem to be mail order They have a catalogue that can be requested. Anyone have any experience with them? Also does anyone have any suggestions on what kit to buy as a basic portable (not needing a dedicated work bench) reloading kit. And also views on fully automated presses/loading systems eg Dillon RL 550B vs competitors equipment Or what to mix match! I'm thinking calibers - .223/ .308/ .45-70(BP Nitro) .45LC .454 Casull EW http://www.reloadingsolutions.com/ Reloading Solutions, P.O. Box 932, Oxford, OX4 1GT. England. Tel: +44-(0)1865 791307 Fax: +44-(0)1865 791397 email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Is Freedom Lost on the Next Generation?
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gunsandammomag.com/dynamic.asp?intSectionID=210intArticleID=734 Is Freedom Lost on the Next Generation? By Charlton Heston We may be losing the next generation of Americans, as they lose an understanding and appreciation of what the Second Amendment is and does. Consider this bit of news. In a June, 2000 national poll of 1,005 high school students, with respondents evenly divided between urban, suburban and rural areas: . 64 percent of high school students said they favor stricter anti-gun laws. . 80 percent said the government should keep firearms away from criminals even if that makes it harder for lawful citizens to purchase them. . 90 percent favor the licensing of handgun buyers. . 96 percent said all handguns should be registered at purchase. . 19 percent of high school students don't believe the Second Amendment guarantees the right to own a firearm. Now, whether or not you believe gun registration, gun owner licensing or any other anti-gun gimmick constitutes a threat to the rights of Americans, consider this: When one out of every five high school students believes the Bill of Rights doesn't mean what it says, how safe can any of our freedoms be? Evidence of Indoctrination Make no mistake: No matter what you think of this poll, you have to admit that kids today can't help but be brainwashed. Look at the awesome accumulation of anti-gun images, messages, attitudes and biases they've been exposed to over the years. Not long ago, high school rifle teams were as common as debating or baseball teams. Now they're being eliminated as if they were some kind of subliminal "boot camps" for future killers. As long as anyone can remember, little boys played cops and robbers with toy guns. Yet now, in some cities, even toy guns are targeted with bans. Everyone from the President of the United States to your kid's homeroom teacher treats firearm freedom at best with suspicion and, more likely, with outright contempt. It's a clever tangle the anti-gun spinners have spun, and not easy for a 14-year-old to see through. First they take a kid's natural, inborn abhorrence to violence, then equate violence with gun ownership, and then equate gun ownership with gun-rights advocacy. Through this calculated metamorphosis, kids get the not-so-subtle message that owning a firearm is functionally equivalent to killing or committing crime and that the real danger isn't the criminals, but rather the firearms and those who stand up for the right to own them. Our Traditions Safeguard Their Freedoms You know where I stand, but let me say it again: I believe the Second Amendment is our single most essential safeguard against anyone who would take away our liberties or our lives, whether it be King George's Redcoats or today's criminal predators. But having the right to own a firearm means nothing if that right is buried under so many restrictions, requirements, fees and formalities that Americans simply throw up their hands in frustration and surrender. In the end, the net effect is the same: Americans are disarmed. Now, I'm sure you'll agree, these are big ideas for young people to understand. If you're like me and most American gun owners, you probably grew up with firearms in your home, and you grew to enjoy them as a hobby long before you ever considered their importance to the Constitution's framers or our freedom. Now think about where you'd be today if you had never been exposed to the shooting sports by a family member or friend. I think many of us, if not most, would have never chosen to own a firearm-and never pondered its relation to our rights-without that first friendly guidance, mentoring and encouragement. That's why I believe it's our duty to sustain the tradition of gun ownership-because only if the tradition lives on, can it provide fertile ground for the freedom to thrive. If we do our part, young people will continue to grow up with firearms, and out of that interest, a few of them will realize later in life-as I and so many others did-why the right to keep and bear arms is so crucial to our safety and our liberty. In so doing, young people can learn how rights come with responsibilities, why rules matter, and where they fit into their families and their society. These are valuable, positive lessons that can reverberate for a lifetime. Give the Gift of Freedom As the hunting and holiday seasons approach, consider how you can help preserve freedom for future Americans by introducing a young person to the fun and satisfaction of shooting. Remember the thrill of your first broken clay pigeon, your first toppled tin can, or the first time you brought home game for the family table? Consider sharing that tradition and helping to build fond memories for another generation by
CS: Misc-Mother's Magnum
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] An amusing story with the mesage of "never bet if you don't want to loose" Enjoy EW === http://www.gunsandammomag.com/dynamic.asp?intSectionID=212intArticleID=1083 Mother's Magnum - March 2001 Five rounds of .44 Magnum ammunition in a Ruger single-action revolver is an intimidating sight to a youngster. By Bart Skelton "She's a bit too punchy for me, boy. I think I'll stick with my ol' .32-20 Colt, if it's all the same to you." My old cowhand friend uttered these words somewhat wistfully as he handed my revolver back to me. The New Mexico winter was beginning to set in and it was looking like it might be a tough one. The clouds hung low on the mountain peaks, heavy with ice particles. The air was still and a few white flakes were appearing. Our trip to the high country had been a dual purpose one; looking for cattle that may have been missed during the recent fall gathering and to do some shooting with my Ruger Blackhawk .44 flattop. I had been granted a couple of days off from my regular job and had decided to head to the mountains for a quick visit. My friend had been a cowhand all of his life and had worked ranches throughout New Mexico. He had packed his first generation Colt for many years, even though .32-20 ammunition is pretty expensive for someone drawing cowboy wages. "My cousin, Hunk, he used to have a .44 Mag. He told me it was the greatest cartridge evere was, but after shootin' yours, I believe I disagree. Just too much gun," he said as we ambled back to his old pickup. "I've killed a bunch of game with my old Colt and she don't kick near as bad." His response wasn't uncommon. I've known many shooters who think the same way, though I know a few more who don't believe the .44 Magnum is quite big enough. The growing popularity of the .454 Casull has definitely cast a shadow on the .44's once powerful reputation, and the older cartridge no longer carries the designation of the most powerful cartridge in the world. But it's still a fine one. I, too, am fond of the Freedom Arms .454 Casull, though I believe I would be more apt to pick a .44 Magnum revolver for an every day packing gun. My association with the .44 Magnum cartridge started in 1966, when Dad tasked himself with disproving the negative opinions of those criticizing the .44 Magnum. A few influential shooters and gunwriters of the day had instigated a push to discredit the .44 Mag, stating that the cartridge was much too powerful to safely fire in a handgun and was too punishing for the average shooter. Dad, being an adamant fan of the big .44, went to bat for it . Five rounds of .44 Magnum ammunition in a Ruger single-action revolver is an intimidating sight to a youngster-I can attest to that. As I recall, I didn't fire all five rounds, but shot enough for my dad to take pictures. It was a proud day for both of us. I shot without complaining and, predictably, missed the coffee can we had set up about twenty feet away. The pictures were later published along with dad's story disputing the claims of those denouncing the big magnum. As far as I know, those naysayers have remained silent ever since. My relationship with the cartridge has remained special since that day. I am fortunate to own a couple of good .44 Mags, including Dad's old flattop Ruger and an outstanding Smith and Wesson Model 629 with custom stocks built by Bear Hug Grips. I've packed these guns faithfully for years and have cleanly taken game with both. I've observed a few good developments in the cartridge over the years and have seen some great new production .44 Magnum revolvers become available. Along with that, I've also seen some unlikely .44 Magnum shooters evolve. Some years back, Ruger introduced its excellent Bisley Model revolvers. These single actions sport grip frame and hammer shapes that resemble those of the classic old Colt Bisleys. Dad was lucky enough to get his hands on one of the first Ruger Bisleys, a 7 1/2 inch .44 Mag. For reasons unknown to all but her, my mother, Sally, has always had an affinity for the Colt Bisley, and when the new Ruger Bisley Model arrived at the house, she took an immediate liking to it. "I want this gun for my own." she advised Dad. Taken aback, since she had rarely shown a great deal of interest in new guns coming in and out of the house, Dad replied "What do you want with it?" "I want it for my purse gun." she said after a short pause. When his laughter died down, a good bit of pondering ensued as Dad tried to figure out how to quash what he considered just a whim on my mother's part. But she persisted, and at last a deal was struck-a deal that Dad figured was a sure way to keep her quiet. He posted a clean target on the 20-yard backstop behind the ho
CS: Misc-TV: Siege
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just seen the Siege program on ITV tonight, why is it that the police marksman will only shoot when the target is pointing the firearm at the hostage with their finger on the trigger, about to kill the hostage? I'm thinking of the shooting where the hostage taker was loading unloading the (410?) shotgun pointing his fingers at the hostage the police as if he would shoot them, though he was not committed to do so. Also the "sniper" officer in training did exactly the same thing, the hostage taker fired the sawn off pump action SG above the hostage then later pointed the SG at the hostage's head, only then did the officer fire!!! As we all know, the body does the last thing the brain told it to do eg the decapitated Chicken that runs away headless - the last command the body received. Also there is the risk of reflex actions or spasm which would cause the target to pull the trigger inadvertently. Shooting someone when they are about to kill the hostage is probably too late, is it not better to shoot when the target is not pointing the firearm/weapon at their hostage(s), there by minimising the risk of the hostage being killed by accident. Someone needs to get all those mis-trained officers retrained, also do something about their marksmanship abilities. Note that the spokesperson stated that they "need officers capable of shooting a weapon when under great stress" NO MENTION OF BEING ABLE TO HIT THE TARGET AT ALL! On a different note, I now understand that a police Force (poss Notts?) has purchased a shipment of.M16's 50BMG Barretts, 3rd burst/ full auto/ 1/2" projectiles..in the police armoury! Makes one wonder what else they have...M203's, Mk19's??? Minimi's, GPMG's! Did a force not have a stock of SA80's in the late 80's IIRC? Anyone else see the programme? EW -- Home Office guidelines are that the police cannot have full-autos, although PT17 apparently have a few in case of another Iranian Embassy siege type situation. No police force to my knowledge has ever used the SA80 or anything belt-fed (except the Jamaican PoliceG). Several forces do have .50s though, for long-range shots. Some forces kept some of the semi-autos handed in during 1989 for use by police countersnipers, certainly some HK G3s, 91s and 93s ended up that way. Actually a shot to the brain will shut someone down before they can do anything else, countersnipers are trained on special targets to hit the correct part of the head, I seem to recall the aiming point on the target is just above the nose, a bit higher than a shot would be right between the eyes. This was heavily researched after the case in San Francisco I think it was, after a Black Panther ducktaped himself to someone and when he was shot he was able to kill the hostage. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was concerned too that at the last "Pistol AD" that there were a number of black people present also. One can most definitely "judge a book by its cover"! Drug dealers and illegal "Yardies" seeking to buy "off-ticket guns" with money made from prostitution and false-passport rackets. It made my flesh shiver to see their brown hands handling fine Smith Wesson pistols and asking "How much". Richard, I do sincerely hope that you are taking the piss! Are you of totally pure heritage, one of the "master race" or are you taking the piss??? My apologies if you are joking. The very basis of the sport of shooting in all its forms, is that anyone of any Nationality, Sex, Ability or Disability (or "Class") can compete against anyone else on a level basis - The Para-Olympics springs to mind. There are not should not be any barriers to anyone starting the sport of shooting as long as they meet the safety requirements to do so. Men, Women, Boys Girls, can all compete on level footing against each other on the same level - WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN PROMOTED??? At my local club, there is a mix of sexes ages from 17 - 84 of men women, where else at what other clubs/sports do you get such a diversity of individuals (except for SCUBA Diving which costs L1500 to get started in - though interestingly many Shooters, are also Divers) I have competed against Champions, Beginners all in between I have taught Firearms proficiency to friends girlfriends, cousins, nieces, all of whom are now safer, more aware proficient in the subject of firearms ( not believing the anti's BS) than they would otherwise be. Where the shooting organisations fail miserably is to promote the BENEFITS OF SHOOTING, this is what they should concentrate on. The Benefits to the Individual, - Concentration, Dexterity, better health, ingenuity, mental skills - maths, judging distances, wind speed, the effect that the various factors will have on the projectile etc - The Eyesight is maintained through the regular exercise of sighting the firearm, Stigmatism's can be fixed by this method, even individual use of each eye can be achieved - how many non shooters have that skill, definitely a bonus when driving in traffic!!! The Benefits to History, the American West would only have been recorded as a Hollywood version if it was not for the efforts of firearm historians The Benefits to the Economy The Benefits to Community Society - Disciplined, Law abiding, caring, thoughtful individuals who are able to work as a team. -Conservation maintenance of the ranges, resulting in a wider array of wildlife The Benefits to Crime reduction - Lower rates of Burglary in areas where the burglar may encounter an armed householder - how many farms are burgled compared with the same number of houses? - Reduction in attacks on the person where CCW is permitted The Benefits to the Military Police - Development of new technology, If a firearm is crap we say so (SA80) it gets fixed (We aid the semi only versions of the SA80 were crap, but they banned them before the manufacturers took notice) -Customising aftermarket add ons/improvements that can be adopted or bought by the serving personnel -Developing techniques in competition that is "state of the art" long before the military / Police adopt it -Improved ballistics cartridge/powder development (Hunters in Alaska Finland) - OO Buckshot - Developed for hunting larger mammals - later adopted by Police Military to hunt Humans! -Police Military teams can compete alongside shooters, which is of benefit to all concerned, increases proficiency, respect among the teams, comments on equipment selection, technique -Snipers are really Stalkers, who at time of war hunt Humans -Shooters have a wealth of knowledge which is shared openly that the Police / Military don't have E.G. Issuing a beginners gun - Revolver / Exposed hammer auto, instead of an advanced shooters gunThe Glock 17 9mm... ie. the correct tool for the job. These are just some of the points that we the associations should promote each day, everyday every chance we get. Shooting unlike so many other sports is open to EVERYONE who wants to take part (as long as they are of sound mind), no matter what the condition of their bodies, background or race - how much trouble has there been at the Olympics between Shooting Teams compared with every other sport present, a lot less I'd wager. My Apologies again if you were joking. Can anyone add other benefits of shooting to the list - could be useful at the March In March N.B. Shooters ARE the definition of Sportsmen / Sportswo
CS: Pol-Labour Arms Sales
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Special report: Labour's ethical foreign policy Richard Norton-Taylor Wednesday February 14, 2001 The Guardian Gaping loopholes in Britain's weapons export controls remain five years after they were identified by Lord Scott's report on the arms to Iraq affair, Amnesty International and Oxfam say in a stinging report today. There are still no adequate controls to ensure arms are sold to their stated destinations, and British weapons brokers can easily bypass existing controls, say the campaigning groups. Policy is still determined by a 1939 emergency law which gives the executive wide powers with no proper parliamentary scrutiny, despite recommendations in Lord Scott's report published five years ago tomorrow. "Despite their scathing criticism over the arms to Iraq report while in opposition, leading members of the government have let five years pass without acting to introduce tough new arms controls laws," said Robert Parker of Amnesty. Justin Forsyth, Oxfam's policy director, said: "Small arms brokered from Britain will continue to cause suffering around the world. Having made so much noise about the Scott report in opposition, the government should be ashamed by its failure to introduce tough new arms laws." Lord Scott disclosed how British arms had reached Iraq through third countries - notably Jordan and Saudi Arabia - as a result of the failure to monitor end-user certificates. Checks are still not made to ensure arms stay in the countries to which they are sent. Amnesty and Oxfam also point out that the government has admitted it is still unable to track arms exported from Britain. And arms deals brokered in Britain do not require a licence if the weapons are shipped from a third country. In a notable example, Heckler and Koch guns manufactured in Turkey were exported to Indonesia when Britain had imposed an arms embargo on weapons sales to the country. -- Or better yet, Heckler Koch guns manufactured in Germany, exported to the UK, then exported to Yugoslavia to avoid German export laws! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Time to take guns out of community
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1169000/1169598.stm Wednesday, 14 February, 2001, 11:01 GMT Time to take guns out of community Harlesden has been plagued by gang-related shootings Harlesden in north west London recently topped the league for the highest murder rate in Britain. BBC News Online's Community Affairs reporter, Cindi John, visited the area to speak with police and public. Stand on the corner of Harlesden High Street and you will see the whole spectrum of British society walk by. Click here to view map of Harlesden area. Harlesden, in north west London, is in the borough of Brent where, according to the 1991 census, nearly half of all residents were from minority ethnic groups. Harlesden borders a more affluent and famous neighbourhood, Willesden, whose multi-cultural society was immortalised in the novel White Teeth by Zadie Smith. "I think the best thing to do is to give the police a free hand and send these so-called Yardies abroad where they come from, Jamaica." James Ryan Harlesden resident It seems tame enough as shoppers go about their business on a bright weekday afternoon, but a recent spate of gun crimes in Harlesden put the area at the top of police league tables for the highest murder rate in the UK. Shootings have occured in busy streets at peak shopping times. One recent confrontation involved bullets being fired into a school playground after rival gang members clashed in an adjoining street. Revenge attacks Bridge Park leisure centre on the outskirts of Harlesden is one project the council hoped would help change the fortunes of the area which is home to a large African Caribbean population, dogged by high unemployment and poor economic circumstances. But Chief Inspector Jim Farrell, of Brent police told BBC News Online it was here the murderous spree began just under two years ago. Jim Farrell: "Police alone cannot end violence alone" "We have a problem currently that began in May 1999 when we had someone shot here at Bridge Park and within six months seven people had been killed in the area. "Since that time we've had fewer deaths although they have continued but a similar number of shootings," he said. Chief Inspector Farrell was at Bridge Park to help organise the public unveiling of a community-based campaign aimed at driving violent elements out of Harlesden. He said the reasons for the shootings were complex but many were linked to two groups within the area, one comprised of black British young men and the other predominantly men from Jamaica. "Some of the attacks have been revenge attacks, some have been related to what would be considered by most people to be very trivial incidents, a lack of respect shown to someone for example. "I wouldn't say it all boils down to drugs but there is often a link with drugs in that the economic base of many of the people involved in these attacks is the illegal supply of drugs," said Mr Farrell. Unsafe The local MP, Paul Boateng, has backed the new anti-gun crime initiative but that did not stop some shoppers in Harlesden regarding it with cynicism. Angela Pitt, who has lived in Harlesden for 10 years, said: "I'm not sure whether it will really make a difference. "They've tried things like this before, we'll just have to wait and see." Ann Huggett feels unsafe in Harlesden Ann Huggett, who moved to Harlesden five years ago, felt those who needed to take heed were likely to ignore the campaign. "They're putting a lot of money in to try and raise people's awareness of what's happening and why but it's only going to affect the people who are involved and whether they're going to listen or not I don't know," she said. Brent council has struggled hard to regenerate Harlesden after major stores like Marks Spencer left several years ago. Rita Costa: "It's too dangerous to go out" A new shopping arcade is a sign of the growing confidence in the previously depressed commercial area. But locals fear businesses and shoppers could be scared away if the violence is not stamped out soon. "It's getting to the stage where we feel unsafe to walk around because these things are happening, 3 or 4 o' clock in the afternoon, not at night time," said Mrs Huggett. Rita Costa, who has lived in Harlesden since 1999, said: "The police should be a little more active, normally I don't go out because I feel afraid. "I have children and I always have problems even sending them to the shops because of this." Bhavin Mehta: "Violence is unnerving" A level student Bhavin Mehta seems resigned to continuing
CS: Misc-Less Lethal Equiptment
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] An interesting site, especially for the recent excuses that it's ok to practice on the public. Maybe if some of this stuff was issued... EW http://www.ozarkmtns.com/less-lethal/ Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-the fashion for firearms
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/police.stm It is a neighbourhood with a reputation for drugs and violence; a place where gang rivalry has led to shootings. The police officers patrolling these streets have loaded guns in their holsters; armed units are ready to provide back up. Is this a scene from the ghettos of the United States? No, this is Nottingham in the heart of England, a country with a long tradition of unarmed police officers who walk the beat with only a truncheon for protection. The decision to introduce armed patrols on some inner-city housing estates in Nottingham has raised eyebrows. The days of Dixon of Dock Green may be long gone, but is this a symbolic moment in Britain's drift towards gun crime? The police in Nottingham have played down suggestions that it is the start of a process that will end with all street patrols being routinely armed. The move has been targeted at specific areas, with the intention of reassuring the public and sending a strong message to young criminals not to use guns. Putting more armed officers on the streets is a very sensitive issue for chief constables, who are well aware of the public's unease. An opinion poll carried out for BBC News Online reinforces that message. Only 34% of those questioned want to see the police routinely carrying guns, while the majority - 59% - want to retain a service that is largely unarmed. Getting the police to discuss these issues is difficult. We approached 10 police forces, but none wanted to talk about their own policy on firearms, referring us instead to the Association of Chief Police Officers. The fashion for firearms Paul Acres is Chief Constable of the Hertfordshire force, and spoke to us as chairman of ACPO's firearms committee. He insists that the decision to issue guns to officers in some parts of Nottingham does not amount to routine arming. "I think the British public cherish the image of a police officer who is very much part of the community and is very close to them, and we recognise that firearms create a bit of distance," he says. "We are very happy to try to keep that image, but for people to know that the officers who are armed are supported by a very swift and effective response, and that there is no profit in taking a firearm onto the streets or certainly challenging our officers." Senior police officers point to the spread of firearms in cities like Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham. And others share a concern that for some young criminals, guns have become part of their image. "To carry a gun is hip," says former armed robber Danny Thomas. "They are carrying a gun with their Reebok trainers, with their Moschino jeans, with their Gucci tops. It's a fashion accessory now." The deployment of armed police officers seems to have been given a cautious welcome by residents in neighbourhoods that have suffered from an increase in gun-related incidents. But there are fears that instead of halting the spiral of violence, increasing the number of armed officers on the streets could encourage more criminals to carry guns. Many British policemen and women worry that it could be the first step on a slippery slope. After a number of officers were killed in the mid-90s, the Police Federation of England and Wales carried out a ballot of its members. A survey (1995) of police attitudes to armed patrols found: a.. 79% of police officers said they were not in favour of being routinely armed a.. But 40% said more officers should be trained to use firearms a.. 42% felt their life had been in serious danger as a result of personal threat in the previous two years a.. 39% had been threatened with firearm, knife or other weapon in the previous two years a.. In the event of a decision to arm all officers 43% said they would be prepared to carry firearms on duty or all of the time a.. 6% said they would resign from the police service if they were ordered to wear a firearm Source: Police Federation "A significant majority did not want to be permanently armed," says Federation chairman Fred Broughton. "But they did want proper risk assessments. They specifically wanted back up, and they wanted mobile armed-response vehicles. They also wanted better training and they wanted better management of armed situations. "Many of us want to see the unarmed service and the traditions of British policing maintained. But for how long we can maintain them is the question." There is an uneasy feeling by those with long experience in the law enforcement business that Britain may be moving gradually towards an armed police service. John Alderson, the former Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall, says such a development would require
CS: Pol-Fishing
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Animal activists set sights on angling 1:03pm Monday, 12th February 2001 Animal rights activists are launching a nationwide advertising campaign as part of a push for angling to be outlawed. Leisure fishing is a bloodsport, as bad as fox hunting and should be outlawed, says campaign group Peta - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Advertisements, likely to feature a dog dangling from a line with a hook through its mouth, will be placed in newspapers, magazines and on billboards. But anglers have reacted furiously, saying they are being victimised by activists and there is no evidence the sport causes fish to suffer. Andrew Butler, Peta's UK co-ordinator, said: "Angling is nothing more than hunting on water. Fish feel pain and distress like other animals. They have all the chemical processes and pain receptors that other creatures do." The campaign, which is not due to be launched for at least another two months, was sparked by an anguished letter from a former angler who wrote to Peta saying he had taken his dog on a fishing trip and his first catch of the day was a fish with a hook stuck in its cheek. Mr Butler said: "He looked at the fish, then looked at the dog and realised that if you wouldn't rip open the cheek of a dog, why would you do it to a fish? "So we took that as the starting point. We are looking at using a computer-generated image of a dog with a hook through it and asking the same question." But Kevin Stephenson, secretary of the National Association of Specialist Anglers, says there is concern that action against the sport will escalate if the Bill to ban fox hunting goes through Parliament. "We are confident that there is no suffering involved and that we are in the right about this," he said. "But the worry is that Peta are very well organised and funded, and now that hunting is on its knees they are looking around to see what's next." -- PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals. G Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-Soldier's suicide by cop
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Police 'lawfully' killed man armed with air rifle A FORMER soldier who was shot dead by police after repeatedly aiming an air rifle at them was lawfully killed, an inquest decided yesterday. Antony Kitts, 20, pointed the gun, resembling a 0.22 rifle, at unarmed police officers on the outskirts of Falmouth, Cornwall. The inquest was told that he also aimed the gun at two marksmen even after they shouted several times: "Armed police, put your weapon down." During the hearing at Truro both armed response officers were granted anonymity by the coroner and gave their evidence from behind screens. Officer A said that in the early hours of April 10 last year he was certain Mr Kitts was carrying a sniper rifle. The officer, who broke down while reading his statement, said he fired at Mr Kitts because he believed he was about to be shot at. Mr Kitts, of Falmouth, suffered massive injuries from a single soft-tipped bullet. At the end of an eight-day inquest a jury of seven women and two men took just under two hours to return a verdict of lawful killing. The foreman said: "The deceased adopted an aggressive demeanour towards officers and failed to respond to demands to put down his firearm." As the verdict was given, Mr Kitts's mother, Diana, wept. After the inquest she said she still had to live with the nightmare every day. She said: "There are two sides to every story and all we have heard is the police side. Antony is the only other person who can say what really happened that night and he is dead." Tina Salvidge, her solicitor, said questions remained unanswered and the family was considering what further legal action could be taken. She said: "We remain concerned at the apparent lack of police organisation in an incident of this nature. We are still of the view that if the police had exercised more caution in their approach to Antony, there would have been no reason to shoot and he would have still been with his family today." At a press conference after the inquest, Ian Latimer, Assistant Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police, said the verdict had vindicated the actions of all the officers involved. He said: "We deeply regret the death of Antony Kitts. We are convinced, however, that given the circumstances our officers could not have acted differently." He defended the use of the soft-tipped bullets, which do not pass through the body and so cause more internal damage than a solid bullet. The ammunition was used by other forces and complied with Home Office guidelines. == Do the police have access to the growing array of "non-lethal" products available to "SWAT" teams? I'm thinking "Bean Bag rounds" CR/CS/CN liquid gas sticky foam rounds, Rubber Bullets etc? (Are "Bean Bag Rounds" legal for civilian use?) The Special Forces have all these items - why not the police? It is even written in (I think Steven Crawfords) an ex SAS members Biography that when the Hungerford shootings were occurring 2 SAS Range Rovers (of anti terrorist wing) were returning from training in explosive access, as usual has all their standard equipment with them. One of the team leaders (with his team) decided to visit a family member (poss his mum) for tea cakes at a town close to Hungerford, though upon getting closer to Hungerford they heard on the Police radio that someone was on a shooting spree. They decided to offer their help, they found the Police Officer in charge (at this time 2 people had been shot). They offered their services, to "Gas Bag" Michael Ryan, using a mix of Grenade shotgun launched Pepper, liquid CN Gas, other "Non-Lethal" substances techniques equipment, to bring the shooter down (obviously while wearing all their appropriate ballistic armour!) Note this equipment was not available in any other immediate form to Hungerford Police. (according to the official reports) Guess what the Police Officer in charge said of this generous offer...NO THANK YOU!!! The SAS left, when they arrived back at their barracks, they heard the actual body count, from what I've read they weren't best pleased at the outcome. You'd have thought that idiot who turned them down would have at least asked them to lend medical support to use the Armoured SAS Range Rover Note also that the Hungerford Police report said they could do nothing WITHOUT AN ARMOURED VEHICLE for casualty evacuation, obviously a Armoured SAS Range Rover is not armoured enough!!! Can anyone think of any other "non Lethal's that the Police should be using? ( Wasn't there a tv program about SWAT Non Lethals last year IIRC) EW -- Apparently the police don't have anything non-lethal except for CS spray going by the recent article about ACPO wanting other
CS: Target-Knob Creek
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.machinegunshoot.com/ The link for the Knob Creek website shoot, next MG shoot is 6,7,8 April EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Another old rumor
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can anybody shed any light on this one? During the Pistol bans Winston Churchill's Boer War Broomhandled Mauser was "handed in" (from a private collection I assume) was subsequently witnessed being crushed! (same source as before) Is there any truth behind this one? Surely if this is true then it is a crime against history itself, as destroying antiques deliberately is also. EW -- It was sold off at an auction not so long ago, I believe it's still in a collection somewhere. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Conservatives? Listening?
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looks like I should email them back ask them to answer the question!!! EW -Original Message- Sent: 23 January 2001 17:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Believing in Britain Is it not time an updated(?)version of the Bill Of Rights 1689 was introduced, in full, in particular stating unequivocally the rights of the individual in all forms. For as we see at the moment, those people who do not know of their historic rights have had the "New Labour" government walk all over them in a tyrannical fashion. I have always been a Conservatve voter, though unless something along these lines IE Stating Our rights, I many other voters will withold our vote for any party which does not support these rights at the next Election Please consider this as there are literally millions of votes to be gained by a party that will support all the rights of the individual (that they were born with) Thanks Earl Williamson == Mr Hague has asked me to thank you for your recent e-mail and to reply on his behalf. He has carefully noted your comments. With the publication of Believing in Britain, we are taking the next step towards turning The Common Sense Revolution into a programme for Government, and your point is an important part or our manifesto. Britain has fantastic opportunities in the coming years. We could have prosperity on a scale unknown to any previous generation, with more people than ever before sharing in its benefits. We could have a healthier, better educated population than ever before in our history. We could have greater stability and stronger communities than for many years past. We could be a leading nation in a more peaceful, freer and more democratic world than it has ever been possible to achieve. The Conservative Party is ambitious for this country. We are determined that Britain will be first rate in every way. The key to a prosperous economy lies in keeping taxes down and reducing regulation and setting free the creative and hard working British people to succeed in the world economy. Opportunity has to be spread to all. Britain must be an open society in which success is possible for every hard working person whoever they are and wherever they come from. The key to a strong and stable society is to trust local communities and institutions. We must hand back power to the local school and to parents. We must hand power to patients and reduce day-to-day interference by politicians in the health service. We must encourage churches and voluntary bodies to help the vulnerable. We must support the struggling family trying to stick together. We must let local communities protect their own environment and identity. The Conservative Party wants to make Britain the best place in the world to do business - put our country at the head of those embracing the new economy, at the centre of a free trading world, make it a fitting home for all who want to get ahead, to create, to excel. We want to make Britain the best place in the world to live - rebuild our cities, reform our public services, revitalise our communities. We want to make Britain one of the most admired and respected countries in the world - help shape a new Europe, help shape a better world. Britain needs a Common Sense Revolution. The next Conservative government will concentrate on the right priorities, creating an enterprising society and quality public services. It will be a government that delivers more and taxes less. The next Conservative government will support the rule of law. The next Conservative government will defend the independence and integrity of our nation. The Conservative Party has listened and learnt. Now we want the chance to deliver. Thank you again for writing. Yours sincerely, Ian Philps Correspondence Secretary -- Oh well, as Jeff Cooper said, "Common sense is the faculty that tells us the Earth is flat." They haven't even read the question. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Shotguns good reason, from the Lords Hansard
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24 Jan 2001 : Column WA16 Shotgun Certificates: Requirement to Show Good Reason The Earl of Shrewsbury asked Her Majesty's Government: Whether they will provide details of all cases in the last five years in which chief officers of police have been compelled by existing law to grant shotgun certificates to persons whom they believe did not have a good reason for acquiring or possessing a shotgun; whether any danger to public safety has arisen from any of these cases; and if such 24 Jan 2001 : Column WA17 information is not held centrally, whether they will take steps to do so.[HL295] Lord Bassam of Brighton: This information is not recorded centrally and can be obtained only at disproportionate cost. We have asked the Firearms Consultative Committee (FCC), the independent statutory body that advises the Government on firearms matters, to explore the issues surrounding the introduction of a requirement for shotgun certificate holders to show good reason for possessing shotguns. -- The FCC is conducting a survey among the shooting associations as to what they think would constitute "good reason" to possess a shotgun. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Legal-McMurdo
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, IF McMurdo is still alive, then WHY HASN'T HE THE OTHERS BEEN BROUGHT TO JUSTICE??? Surely it is not beyond our collective ability to bring (in each of these travesties of justice) Private Prosecutions in the form of "Field Sports Participants Vs Those Responsible", no matter who the responsible parties may be. 58,000 - 1,000,000 People chipping in to the legal fees to bring the various prosecutions would send the message to most people that we won't be lying down on these issues where we are persecuted for political whims. maybe they would all do their respective jobs correctly EW -- Didn't we already try this? I seem to recall something along these lines in 1996. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-another two shot
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2 men shot in Peckham 4am Monday 29 Jan - It's on the news but not on the BBC web site yet..H not on the BBC news either..HMM The details are 2 men shot in the head by a "gang" of others 1 was DOA to hospital the other is critical, the man who died was shot twice in the head , yet again on Peckham High Street. (the other hot spot for executions is Coldharbour Lane, by Loughborough Junction Train Station 3-4 executions there last yearon that one strip of road a body on the back seat of a car, on a corner of the road (I drove past the Forensics team coming going) --- Here's the shooting I missed driving into by about 2 mins last year in Peckham (would have been in the middle of it if a friend hadn't called me back as I was leaving) It would have been a good move if the Police car that cut me up to block the road had asked if I had any "first aid training" The things they neglect to mention was there were 2 Drug dealers who went to kill a rival, each carried an Ingram Mac 11 (according to other reports) at least 3 magazines were emptied into a crowd of more than 10 people who were standing in the same queue as the rival drug dealer outside Chicago's Night Club. Ie. they "sprayed the crowd" to get 1 person When I saw it on the news 2 bulletins on the bbc itv their reporters "couldn't be bothered" according to the expressions on both of their faces!!! An attempted mass murder the news reporters were bored! Maybe if one of the Attempted murderers had once held a FAC... EW http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_859000/859574.stm Monday, 31 July, 2000, 12:52 GMT 13:52 UK Nine injured in 'Yardie' shooting The area around the club is dubbed the "front line" by some locals Nine people have been hurt after a gunman opened fire outside a nightclub in what detectives believe may have been a Yardie incident involving Caribbean gangsters. A 16-year-old girl was amongst those injured when the man fired shots from an automatic weapon outside the Chicago's nightclub in Peckham High Street, south east London. The most seriously hurt was a man who suffered two chest wounds. Four women were also caught in the attack and all received hospital treatment. One woman had been shot through the arm...the other in the leg Anonymous eyewitness The incident took place at 0250BST as people queued outside the nightclub for a Jamaican sound system night. An eyewitness queuing outside the club said: "I heard the gunshot and ran away to hide and when I came out there were two women on the floor screaming. "One woman had been shot through the arm and it looked like it had gone straight through and hit her side. The other woman had been shot in the leg." 'Innocent people' Metropolitan police from Operation Trident, which tackles Yardie crimes, are investigating the attack. Detective Superintendent Peter Camilletti is appealing for witnesses. He said: "There are some innocent people caught up in the shooting. A motorist was treated for shock after seeing the attack "We do not yet know what the motive was for it. We have very few witnesses to this at the moment so we are appealing to witnesses and anyone who can tell us what happened." He said the weapon appeared to have been an automatic gun, based on cartridges found on the street. A Peckham resident, who did not want to be named, said: "This area of High Street, where the club is, is known locally as the front line because this is the point people come to if they want to meet drug dealers who deal in crack and heroin." He added: "Softer drugs are available elsewhere but this is here you get hard drugs." Footage from CCTV cameras positioned outside the club will be examined by police and an incident room has been set up in Peckham. Anyone with any information is being asked to call police in confidence on 020 8778 2375 or Crime Stoppers on 0800 555111. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-March Slogans
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What Rights Do You Have..? Think Again Or What Rights Do You Have Left..? Think Again EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Fishing next
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps Mr Tony Banks MP (the keen fisherman who votes to ban all other sports) would like to see where his hypocritical stand on rights past times has got him, his fellow anglers, the fishing industry etc! So will the ALF be targeting Fishmongers? Tesco/Sainsburys? Do those idiots who call themselves "the Elected Member" ever learn??? (Didn't know you could elect part of your body!!) Or will MP's be shocked by the ALF statement from those who have no PLACE in rationalised debate, maybe Mr Banks will ask " How COD they do this!? LOL EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-ban on hunting.
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, is this now how the "Labour" party now worksEvery 3 years it *HAS* to BAN an activity Persecute a section of society - from past present experience - the most law abiding sections? Oh, not to mention the infringement removal of the right of the individual to do as they please, as long as it affects no one else in the process. Is this really the message that the "Establishment" really want to send out - "You are our subjects you will do as we decree" Surely if they really cared they would push for a world wide ban on tobacco sales use - or would they get a reduced number of votes at the next election! I wonder when they will turn on other minorities of a single race or religion, or when they will run out of multi racial/ multi religion/multi aged groups to persecute (ours having already been persecuted) (There is a thread on the SA Board regarding the ban after Dunblane) EW P.S. why did Parliament have the "Pistol Range" in recent times, was the underlying reason so that MP's had an excuse to be armed when travelling to from work? -- You'd have to ask them. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Tony Banks on Muggers
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did anyone see Tony Banks MP in the debate on Fox Hunting, mention his recent mugging by 3 "Black" youths (also stated on "Clarkson" - BBC2) Interesting to see how his view of muggings violent crime has changed now - He has now stated twice, first on Clarkson, yesterday in the commons that (Muggers) "should be shot" Surely not! I hear you cry, Not he who lauded that there would be less crime after (all) Legally Held Pistols ( firearms) were removed from society! Yes, Mr Banks now holds those views... all it took for him to do an about turn on his views was He got mugged! So does this mean that the more of the Labour Party other MP's that experience something before voting on it will actually have understood both sides of the argument? (He really hates Muggers now, but before...) His speech should be in Hansard soon EW Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-March In March Worries
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] No matter what, I WILL BE ATTENDING THE MARCH, as should everyone else with an interest in field/country sports human rights - including the fishing sports supporters as they will be next for a ban. Though, I have considered taking a camera of my own to record the actions of those who would record our actions. If everyone else on the march also took a camera, should we be under surveillance by anyone apart from the press, we could then make a point of recording those who would record us! I can see it nowas each part of the march passes a camera crew.the marchers turn take their picture!! .. another point scored for the rights of the individual over the overbearance of the state...wahey!!! LOL EW -- If the police attempted to revoke anyone's FAC simply because they attended a march it would be a gift to the gun lobby and that is why it won't happen. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-John Wayne Winchester Custom Model
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks everyone, here's the response from Winchester, does anyone know the specifications of the rifles with the large loop - Barrel Length, Calibers, Sights etc I think Franklin Mint was one of the places that said the large loop was invented by JW - same here, I thought I had seen it also in films before John Wayne's career Thanks again EW P.S. Didn't Arnold Schwarzenegger use a sawn off (Barrel Stock) Large Loop Winchester in Terminator 2? - Just thought of that!!! The gun John Wayne used in El Dorado was a Model 1892 Winchester with the large loop. Winchester never produced this model having the large loop except in commemorative editions. We do not have records here indicating that the large loop was invented by John Wayne. We hope this information is helpful. Cindy Winchester Customer Service Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-John Wayne Winchester Custom Model
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I am trying to find out more about the Winchester underlever rifle that John Wayne used in several of his films. In "El Dorado" it was commented that it was a customised rifle. The outward appearance of the rifle is that of a 1873, 1892 or 1894 carbine model with the Large Loop in probably a 16" barrel length The Large Loop is sometimes credited as being invented by John Wayne, is this correct? Any information on specifications would be appreciated, I have seen various commemorative editions, though nothing recently produced Many thanks Earl W -- I don't think it was invented by John Wayne, Robert Stack used one in "The Rifleman" but I'm not sure which was filmed first. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March In March - Registration Info
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I appreciate that everyone probably knows about the March on the 18th March the debates for and against it (Lack of support in 1997 being one) Yes, I did borrow this information from the Sportsman's association Website, to send to my friends as an email, hopefully the SA won't mind it being used for this purpose - I did ask I was told it was ok - Thanks Guys This is a copy of the email I thought I should share it with all the Cybershooters out there, feel free to forward it to all in your email address book, as I hope my friends will do also. Best Wishes EW http://www.sportsmans-association.org http://www.march-info.org/ REGISTRATION FOR THE MARCH The Countryside Alliance have requested all those who intend to take part in the March on 18th March 2001 to phone their telephone hotline and register their intention. The March Registration Hotline number is 0906 788 1680 (Calls should cost no more than 1) The cost of the call will help to pay for your information pack, car sticker and an "I Have Registered" badge. Why are the Countryside Alliance Asking People To Register (This information is taken from the CA's March Website) a.. First and foremost to pledge your support to "Liberty Livelihood" and to make a committment to marching on Sunday 18th March. b.. To help the organisers in their logistic planning by providing an indication of the likely numbers to attend. c.. To receive information about the March in a cost effective manner. d.. To receive a car sticker and badge which you can use to help to promote the march. e.. To join the "Roll of Honour", we plan to produce a list of all marchers which, in its own way, will form the basis of a petition to support the event. f.. To help promote the March, the more marchers we have registered in advance the better, and such information can only assist us in our overall PR campaign. The Countryside Alliance will not pass the information you give them to anybody else and will only be used by that organisation to inform you about the March and related events and initiatives. SHOOTERS AND THE MARCH: A CLEARLY DEFINED GROUP The Sportsman's Association feels very strongly that SHOOTERS must be a clearly defined group of people within the mass of people protesting on March 18th 2001. It must be obvious to the watching media and political leaders that the rights of shooters is one of the issues being supported by the March and that shooters form a prominent percentage of those who are marching. The Countryside Alliance are in full agreement with the idea of the identifcation of shooters as a group of people within the March. There are things we can do to ensure that shooters, as a body, are clearly identifiable. 1. The Organisation Of Shooters' Coaches It is very important that shooters from different areas of the country arrive in London together, and the easiest way to do this is to organise Shooter's Coaches. It is tempting to think that it is easier for individuals to organise their own transport (cars, trains etc) and then meet up at the start of the March. This will be virtually impossible because of the sheer number of people who will be on the streets of London that day, as anybody who attended the previous Countryside March will be well aware. To keep shooters in groups it is essential that they arrive together in London and the best way to do this is by organising coaches (or possibly booking a carriage or two on a train - assuming the railways are running "normally" by then). Parking is obviously as issue for the Coach Drivers upon arrival in London. The Countryside Alliance have advised us that Coach Organisers should register for the March (as should all people intending to take part) and they will be forwarded information about parking facilities organised by The Countryside Alliance. Registration information can be found by Clicking Here! 2. Placards, Banners Etc Having arrived as a group, and hopefully stayed together, Shooters must be a clearly indentifiable grouping within the mass of marching people. One very effective way of doing this is to use sensibly worded placards. Offensive or abusive placards will not help our cause, rather they will diminish effectiveness of our cause. Some suggested "slogans" for placards of banners are: "I love my country - but I fear my government" "Shooters are fighting for Freedom of Choice - We will never give up" "Guns are inanimate objects - it is people who kill" It is suggested that all placards / banners have the Sportsman's Association logo prominently displayed. Indeed some should solely consist of the logo. If anybody has any more suggestions for "slogans" they will be gratefully received and added to t
CS: Pol-Govt Vs Comedian
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whitehall official accused of dirty tricks against comedian 8:17am Monday, 08th January 2001 A Whitehall official has been reprimanded after asking colleagues to find information with which to smear comedian Mark Thomas. The unnamed civil servant sent an e-mail saying that Trade and Industry Secretary Richard Caborn wanted "background/dirt" on the Channel 4 star "in order to rubbish him". A DTI spokeswoman said that Mr Caborn had not known about the message and had never requested such information, but she confirmed that the e-mail was one of a number obtained from Government files by Mr Thomas under the Data Protection Act (DPA), and that the official concerned had received a warning over the incident. The comedian's Mark Thomas Product shows aim to combine stand-up humour with investigative journalism and stunts designed to highlight hypocrisy and wrong-doing in high places. Speaking to the Guardian newspaper Thomas said: "If Caborn wants to smear me, this is a waste of taxpayers' money and time. This is the type of behaviour you would expect from undemocratic regimes, not from a Government which promised to be whiter than white." The unnamed ECGD official wrote: "Thomas is back on the tele in the autumn (by the way name of official deleted also said that Caborn wants him to gather as much background/dirt on him in order to rubbish him." The DTI spokeswoman added: "The minister was not aware of the contents of the e-mail. At no time did the minister ask for information to rubbish Mark Thomas." Other messages released to Thomas under the DPA, detail how officials sought to deal with his enquiries. Some reveal a debate on whether to be open or "starve" him of information, while others describe him as "an out-and-out nutter" and "a prat". All officials' names were removed from documents before their release to Mr Thomas. Liberal Democrat trade and industry spokesman Vince Cable is to write to Mr Caborn demanding an explanation of the incident. He said: "If the reports are true, and the press officers involved were acting under ministerial instructions, then this is a very serious matter indeed. The Mark Thomas Product can be seen on Channel 4 at 11.10pm. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-lack of energy in dealing with the knife problem
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED]
