Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
Thorsten Kampe writes: * Reid Thompson (Tue, 08 May 2007 07:00:45 -0400) Charles Wilson wrote: Sigh. cygwin's rxvt is not broken. It works for me, and about 2000 others. +1 --I have been using cygwin rxvt for several years (Xwin and Win) -- has fulfilled every terminal need that I have. kudos to the 'maintainer'??. ++2 And finally, ++3 Thanks Charles Volker -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
Charles Wilson wrote: Sigh. cygwin's rxvt is not broken. It works for me, and about 2000 others. +1 --I have been using cygwin rxvt for several years (Xwin and Win) -- has fulfilled every terminal need that I have. kudos to the 'maintainer'??. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
* Reid Thompson (Tue, 08 May 2007 07:00:45 -0400) Charles Wilson wrote: Sigh. cygwin's rxvt is not broken. It works for me, and about 2000 others. +1 --I have been using cygwin rxvt for several years (Xwin and Win) -- has fulfilled every terminal need that I have. kudos to the 'maintainer'??. ++2 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
Hi all, Thanks a lot to Thomas Dickey, Thorsten Kampe and Charles Wilson for taking time to answer my question. I'm very sorry if it lead to some argument, that has never been my intent. All I wanted to know was something like a side-by-side points, such as I use *1 because it has this feature that *2 doesn't... etc., really from the used point of view. Thanks again, Gustavo. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Mon, 7 May 2007, Gustavo Seabra wrote: Hi all, Thanks a lot to Thomas Dickey, Thorsten Kampe and Charles Wilson for taking time to answer my question. I'm very sorry if it lead to some argument, that has never been my intent. All I wanted to know was something like a side-by-side points, such as I use *1 because it has this feature that *2 doesn't... etc., really from the used point of view. hmm - I'm not in a good position to offer a side-by-side contrast since I'm the (upstream) xterm and ncurses maintainer. (I'll point out where a constrast is inaccurate though ;-) -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
[consolidating two subthreads] Thomas Dickey wrote: Not so fast, Thomas. I did not and do not agree with your previous posts: neither of your messages claimed that upstream rxvt has no maintainer. (If they did, then I would have agreed with that.) Your messages claimed that rxvt had no cygwin maintainer. That claim is false: I am the cygwin maintainer for rxvt. I don't much care for the role of cygwin maintainer in a discussion related to _support_, since you're deliberatly confusing the issue of putting the file on someone's disk in contrast to making it work. Sigh. cygwin's rxvt is not broken. It works for me, and about 2000 others. A few people seem to need additional help, and usually they seem to work it out themselves (typically, the problem is in their xserver configuration, or PIBKAC, because they haven't bothered to read the man pages, READMEs, other documenation, or STFW). If somebody having a problem with rxvt ever followed the instructions on cygwin's problem page (and followed any of the embedded links, also reproduced below): http://cygwin.com/problems.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html and demonstrated that they HAD, in fact, RTFMed and STFWed and read the READMEs and other documentation... first, I'd faint. Then, I'd be more than willing to help (and my first question would be, does xterm work? G ). But short of that, I've little motivation to answer repeated questions already answered elsewhere. I'd much rather engage in tendentious discussions like this one. No, scratch that. I don't enjoy wasting time this way, either -- but since we're here, dadgummit... On the cygwin lists, there are typically two possible meanings of the word maintainer. However, there is a third meaning, and it appears we are failing to communicate because you're assuming only definitions A and C, and I was assuming only definitions A and B: A: the upstream maintainer. E.g: the x.org folks for most of X you, for xterm, ncurses, etc me, for cygutils and a few other even more obscure things the committers for gcc. nobody, for rxvt B: the cygwin maintainer. The person responsible for the package on the cygwin mirror system, for accepting/acting on bug reports and patches *reported on the cygwin mailing lists*, for occasionally monitoring the upstream lists and feeding patches upstream. And sometimes, if one is really lucky, providing 24/7 call-center-style end-user hand-holding. This person approaches package 'X' as a member of the cygwin community, rather than the other way around. E.g. Harold Hunt, for xterm (yes, he's gone; so in cygwin parlance, xterm is unmaintained (but see category C, below) me, for ncurses and rxvt and about 30 others Dave Korn, for gcc (but Dave is now, also, a committer for gcc, which puts him in category A *and* C, as well!) I don't do much end-user hand-holding, for any of my packages. Maybe that makes me a *bad* maintainer. But it does NOT mean, in the sense most often used on the cygwin lists, that cygwin's rxvt (or zlib, or unzip, or gettext, or...) package is unmaintained. Quick: who's the maintainer of ncurses? Depends on what you mean by maintainer. C: a project maintainer with a focus on portability to a particular platform. That is, a member of the project 'X' community, who is either responsible for, or otherwise cares about, whether 'X' works on [linux|cygwin|mingw|darwin|whathaveyou]. This person may (or may not) be a regular on the target platform's (cygiwn's?) mailing lists -- they may instead do all their porting work within the 'X' community's mailing lists. This is typically the case for those projects that have cygwin ports, but do not, for whatever reason, submit them as official packages for the cygwin mirror system. E.g. Yaakov Selkowitz (cygwin-ports) provides Gnome, KDE, and xFCE packages -- but uses /those/ projects' mailing lists and bugzillas to manage it. He specifically requests that users of cygports use the mailing lists he has set up, and NOT cygwin's lists. However, he also hangs out on the cygwin lists, so... You, for xterm (and ncurses, and terminfo). You answer questions here, but do not take responsibility for the xterm package on the cygwin mirrors. Dave Korn, gcc: he now spends as much time/posts as many messages on the various gcc lists as he does the cygwin lists, and has been given commit-after-approval access to gcc svn. So, with regards to gcc, Dave is a hat trick: A, B, and C. Obviously, there can be a lot of overlap. And often, cooperation: I'm the 'B' maintainer for both gettext and libintl, but Bruno (the 'A' maintainer) takes a lot of interest in the cygwin and mingw platforms. I'll often send him patches, either directly or via bug-gettext, and he
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: The fact is, rxvt upstream is dead, dead, dead. It has shuffled off this mortal coil. Joined the choir invisible. It is an EX-terminal. The terminal is terminal. thanks for agreeing with me. It has no maintainer. Frankly, I prefer rxvt-unicode on X -- even in non-unicode mode -- because yes (does cygwin finally have unicode support? - no one's mentioned it on this list at all). http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2006-05/msg2.html Wait: an announcement of a release (and not even the most recent announcement) is your evidence that a package is unmaintained? Isn't that a bit backwards? google's not showing me a recent maintainer for the code. Hmm. http://www.google.com/search?q=site:cygwin.com+inurl:cygwin-announce+rxvt+20050409hl=enfilter=0 thanks - I didn't add in the announce, and found _only_ old references. Not much traffic. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
Thomas Dickey wrote: On Sat, 5 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: The fact is, rxvt upstream is dead, dead, dead. It has shuffled off this mortal coil. Joined the choir invisible. It is an EX-terminal. The terminal is terminal. thanks for agreeing with me. It has no maintainer. Not so fast, Thomas. I did not and do not agree with your previous posts: neither of your messages claimed that upstream rxvt has no maintainer. (If they did, then I would have agreed with that.) Your messages claimed that rxvt had no cygwin maintainer. That claim is false: I am the cygwin maintainer for rxvt. Don't try to retcon this thread. Frankly, I prefer rxvt-unicode on X -- even in non-unicode mode -- because yes (does cygwin finally have unicode support? - no one's mentioned it on this list at all). No, cygwin does not. Cygwin's rxvt-unicode port has limited unicode support because Thomas Wolff provided me with a patch (to rxvt-unicode) that shims unicode support by intercepting certain X calls. -- Chuck -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Sun, 6 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: Thomas Dickey wrote: On Sat, 5 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: The fact is, rxvt upstream is dead, dead, dead. It has shuffled off this mortal coil. Joined the choir invisible. It is an EX-terminal. The terminal is terminal. thanks for agreeing with me. It has no maintainer. Not so fast, Thomas. I did not and do not agree with your previous posts: neither of your messages claimed that upstream rxvt has no maintainer. (If they did, then I would have agreed with that.) Your messages claimed that rxvt had no cygwin maintainer. That claim is false: I am the cygwin maintainer for rxvt. I don't much care for the role of cygwin maintainer in a discussion related to _support_, since you're deliberatly confusing the issue of putting the file on someone's disk in contrast to making it work. When I've seen - say - more than 10% of your work in the latter, you'll have something to argue about. You're not there. Don't try to retcon this thread. that remark reflects poorly on you. For the casual reader, google suggests that Charles Wilson called me a liar. Frankly, I prefer rxvt-unicode on X -- even in non-unicode mode -- because yes (does cygwin finally have unicode support? - no one's mentioned it on this list at all). No, cygwin does not. Cygwin's rxvt-unicode port has limited unicode support because Thomas Wolff provided me with a patch (to rxvt-unicode) that shims unicode support by intercepting certain X calls. You're apparently still confused: the terminal emulator can certainly implement something, but if the applications running in it can't (except as implied, for self-contained locale support), then it's of limited use. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
* Thomas Dickey (Sun, 6 May 2007 10:49:23 -0400 (EDT)) On Sun, 6 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: Thomas Dickey wrote: On Sat, 5 May 2007, Charles Wilson wrote: The fact is, rxvt upstream is dead, dead, dead. It has shuffled off this mortal coil. Joined the choir invisible. It is an EX-terminal. The terminal is terminal. thanks for agreeing with me. It has no maintainer. Not so fast, Thomas. I did not and do not agree with your previous posts: neither of your messages claimed that upstream rxvt has no maintainer. (If they did, then I would have agreed with that.) Your messages claimed that rxvt had no cygwin maintainer. That claim is false: I am the cygwin maintainer for rxvt. I don't much care for the role of cygwin maintainer in a discussion related to _support_ [...] You are confusing things. Quoting you: 'support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer [...]'. If you don't 'care for the role of cygwin maintainer' then that's obviously nonsense as X is maintained upstream. Thorsten -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Sun, 6 May 2007, Thorsten Kampe wrote: You are confusing things. Quoting you: 'support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer [...]'. If you don't 'care for the role of cygwin maintainer' then that's obviously nonsense as X is maintained upstream. not at all: X upstream doesn't maintain the Cygwin X server. (nothing's preventing them from doing that, but it's not the same as actually doing it). Again, if there were an upstream _maintainer_ for rxvt (the point of this thread), they'd have done something useful with the win32 bits mentioned. There's certainly no cygwin maintainer for that, noting that the cited announcement was just a call for help rather than a notice of completed work. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
* Thomas Dickey (Sun, 6 May 2007 13:36:31 -0400 (EDT)) On Sun, 6 May 2007, Thorsten Kampe wrote: You are confusing things. Quoting you: 'support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer [...]'. If you don't 'care for the role of cygwin maintainer' then that's obviously nonsense as X is maintained upstream. not at all: X upstream doesn't maintain the Cygwin X server. (nothing's preventing them from doing that, but it's not the same as actually doing it). Again, if there were an upstream _maintainer_ for rxvt (the point of this thread), they'd have done something useful with the win32 bits mentioned. Why would the upstream rxvt maintainer support (do something useful) with the Cygwin rxvt port when the X upstream maitainer doesn't?! -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Gustavo Seabra wrote: Hi all, I just wonder what is the current status of terminals for X in Cygwin. I currently use xterm, but I've seen people using rxvt and mrxvt. Also, I heard that rxvt is actually currently supported in Cygwin, something that xterm apparently isn't. support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer, so no updated packages. On the other hand, while I respond to xterm issues(*) on this and other lists, I don't recall _ever_ seeing support from rxvt's maintainers on this list. (*) aside from obvious ones - setting the font is an example that's best done via the manpage. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
* Thomas Dickey (Sat, 5 May 2007 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT)) On Sat, 5 May 2007, Gustavo Seabra wrote: I just wonder what is the current status of terminals for X in Cygwin. I currently use xterm, but I've seen people using rxvt and mrxvt. Also, I heard that rxvt is actually currently supported in Cygwin, something that xterm apparently isn't. support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer, so no updated packages. On the other hand, while I respond to xterm issues(*) on this and other lists, I don't recall _ever_ seeing support from rxvt's maintainers on this list. rxvt is not an X package... -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
Re: Xterm, rxvt, mrxvt, etc....
On Sat, 5 May 2007, Thorsten Kampe wrote: * Thomas Dickey (Sat, 5 May 2007 10:12:18 -0400 (EDT)) On Sat, 5 May 2007, Gustavo Seabra wrote: I just wonder what is the current status of terminals for X in Cygwin. I currently use xterm, but I've seen people using rxvt and mrxvt. Also, I heard that rxvt is actually currently supported in Cygwin, something that xterm apparently isn't. support is relative. There's apparently no X maintainer, so no updated packages. On the other hand, while I respond to xterm issues(*) on this and other lists, I don't recall _ever_ seeing support from rxvt's maintainers on this list. rxvt is not an X package... rxvt could run in X, but I agree it has a win32-specific chunk of code. However, the last I read of _that_ was that it was no longer supported. For example http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-announce/2006-05/msg2.html google's not showing me a recent maintainer for the code. If there's no maintainer, it's not supported, no matter what the mailing list is. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ FAQ: http://x.cygwin.com/docs/faq/
