Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
At 5:45 PM -0700 4/28/00, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>At 18:08 4/28/2000 -0400, Matthew Gaylor wrote:
>>The reason I post and how and what I post are decisions made by
>>myself. Judging from the thousands of subscribers and the large
>>number of thank yous I get for posting material, I don't think I'm
>>going to change one iota the manner, frequency or content of what I
>>choose to say or post. I could list the positive results of my
>>activism, but your request makes me suspicious.
>
>Matt: Tim is not singling you out. Perhaps he's just getting
>crotchety nowadays, but Tim has been complaining for years about the
>number of you-need-to-see-this forwarded messages that folks
>crosspost to cypherpunks. The web seems a better distribution
>mechanism for them. I don't believe Tim is complaining about your
>freematt list that you're talking about above ("thousands of
>subscribers") -- but your crossposts to four or five other mailing
>lists at at time.
Exactly. Those who want to read Matthew Gaylor's personal selection
of important articles should subscribe to his list with his editorial
selections.
Likewise, those who want to read forwarded articles from Hettinga can
read his aptly-named "e$spam" (or somesuch). Gaylor has his list, so,
as both Declan and Phill Hallam-Baker have mentioned, those who want
to read Gaylor's clippings can subscribe to his list.
Ah, but apparently "not enough" people subscribe to Gaylor's, Avon's,
Payne's, etc. spam lists, so they are spamming _other_ lists.
The problem is that many of the proselytizers, like Avon, Gaylor,
etc., believe that since adding mailing list addresses is free and
easy, they should do so. Hence Gaylor spams several lists with his
forwarded clippings, Avon spams a dozen or more with his.
Enough. If they persist, Technical Means should be used to shut their
e-mail addresses down. A gigabyte a day might do it. If not, up it.
--Tim May
--
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
At 4:01 PM -0700 4/28/00, Eric Murray wrote: > >But I see the trend continuing, especially now that email marketing >is in vogue... and by marketing here I do mean your list, or Declans's >or Hettinga's or Schneier's. It's in your interest to make your list reach >as far as possible, and mildly annoying a few people on the way >isn't going to keep you from cross-posting it. > >It's a little sad, but inevitable. It's more than sad: it's shitting all over mailing lists. And shitting all over the future of mailing lists. When N people take M articles from online sources, Yahoo, Lycos, Wired, Time, and then cross-post them to every one of the lists they can think of, the results are ugly. We saw this a while back with someone who had several of his own lists. We see this from Jean-Francois Avon, who isn't even subscribed to the Cypherpunks list, and yet he copies gun-related news items to our list and dozens of others. Here are the headers from one of his recent spammings: From: "Jean-Francois Avon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Cypherpunks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Tom Ashworth Prospector_s Cache" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Softwar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "QuackGrass.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Paul Richards' - Offshore Haven Newsletter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Patriot on Guard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "N. King at Standup New-Zealand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dave in New-Zealand's freedom list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Canada Protest Page" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "American Patriot Friends Network" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Breitkreuz Hon. Gary MP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Canadian Institute for Legislative Action" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Canadian Firearm Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:42:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Jean-Francois Avon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Old-Subject: Fwd: NEWS - UN Press Release on Small Arms Conference Subject: Fwd: NEWS - UN Press Release on Small Arms Conference > >However, as usual, technical solutions work the best. Procmail is a >great tool. It takes only a half-hour or so of reading to set up a working >set of filters. The procmailex man page shows many examples, including >one for filtering out duplicate messages from different mailing lists. >It's also good for filtering out spam and cypherpunks posts from >loons or with CDR: in the Subject. I don't use Procmail, but the filters in Eudora Pro can do the same. The problems are much more than just my spending some time filtering out Avon, Gaylor, Hettinga, Bill Payne, etc. The problems are implicit in the N people, M sources, to Z lists. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
At 6:08 PM -0400 4/28/00, Matthew Gaylor wrote: >Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>Matthew, >> >>I am now seeing you send the same articles--whether on State Farm >>GPS usage, Echelon, whatever--appearing on multiple lists. Why? > >The reason I post and how and what I post are decisions made by >myself. Judging from the thousands of subscribers and the large >number of thank yous I get for posting material, I don't think I'm >going to change one iota the manner, frequency or content of what I >choose to say or post. I could list the positive results of my >activism, but your request makes me suspicious. My "request" makes you suspicious. Gee. What a turkey you are. Spam-boy, folks like you are a waste of skin. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
At 04:01 PM 04/28/2000 -0700, Eric Murray wrote: >On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 06:08:25PM -0400, Matthew Gaylor wrote: >> Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >Matthew, >> > >> >I am now seeing you send the same articles--whether on State Farm >> >GPS usage, Echelon, whatever--appearing on multiple lists. Why? For a long time, the way I've read mail is to sort by date, then Subject, so that articles mailed at the same time get grouped together, which takes care of most of the multi-posting, because I can read it once and the rest of the copies are right there to trash. This was primarily to deal with Bob Hettinga's post-everywhere tendencies (he's gotten better about this), but we're increasingly seeing articles posted back and forth between cypherpunks, cyberia, Matt's lists, Declan's lists, Slashdot, Dave Farber's lists, Hettinga's lists, etc. Eudora's usually pretty good about ignoring Re: prefixes in the titles, though it unfortunately does sort on CDR: stuff (annoying for discussions). (It's also convenient for dealing with spam sent to multiple lists :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
At 18:08 4/28/2000 -0400, Matthew Gaylor wrote:
>The reason I post and how and what I post are decisions made by
>myself. Judging from the thousands of subscribers and the large number of
>thank yous I get for posting material, I don't think I'm going to change
>one iota the manner, frequency or content of what I choose to say or
>post. I could list the positive results of my activism, but your request
>makes me suspicious.
Matt: Tim is not singling you out. Perhaps he's just getting crotchety
nowadays, but Tim has been complaining for years about the number of
you-need-to-see-this forwarded messages that folks crosspost to
cypherpunks. The web seems a better distribution mechanism for them. I
don't believe Tim is complaining about your freematt list that you're
talking about above ("thousands of subscribers") -- but your crossposts to
four or five other mailing lists at at time.
Me, I'm pretty agnostic on this. But some of the stuff you've
bulk-forwarded to f-c (of which I am the ostensible list owner), like
census and Microsoft antitrust info, does seem arguably off-topic. I
generally find it interesting and even agree with you (I suspect) on most
issues, but it mildly repetitive to get the same message from you so many
times on so many lists. Why don't you simply encourage folks to sign up to
freematt instead?
-Declan
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 06:08:25PM -0400, Matthew Gaylor wrote: > Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Matthew, > > > >I am now seeing you send the same articles--whether on State Farm > >GPS usage, Echelon, whatever--appearing on multiple lists. Why? > > The reason I post and how and what I post are decisions made by > myself. Judging from the thousands of subscribers and the large > number of thank yous I get for posting material, I don't think I'm > going to change one iota the manner, frequency or content of what I > choose to say or post. I could list the positive results of my > activism, but your request makes me suspicious. Wow, I thought I was paranoid... If you're subscribed to multpile lists and people cross-post to all of them, you get a lot of duplicate emails. It's mildly irritating. That's what Tim's complaining about, not your content or your activisim (which he praised in the part that you snipped out...). But I see the trend continuing, especially now that email marketing is in vogue... and by marketing here I do mean your list, or Declans's or Hettinga's or Schneier's. It's in your interest to make your list reach as far as possible, and mildly annoying a few people on the way isn't going to keep you from cross-posting it. It's a little sad, but inevitable. However, as usual, technical solutions work the best. Procmail is a great tool. It takes only a half-hour or so of reading to set up a working set of filters. The procmailex man page shows many examples, including one for filtering out duplicate messages from different mailing lists. It's also good for filtering out spam and cypherpunks posts from loons or with CDR: in the Subject. -- Eric Murray www.lne.com/~ericm ericm at the site lne.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European
Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Matthew, > >I am now seeing you send the same articles--whether on State Farm >GPS usage, Echelon, whatever--appearing on multiple lists. Why? The reason I post and how and what I post are decisions made by myself. Judging from the thousands of subscribers and the large number of thank yous I get for posting material, I don't think I'm going to change one iota the manner, frequency or content of what I choose to say or post. I could list the positive results of my activism, but your request makes me suspicious. Regards, Matt- ** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per month) Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd., PMB 176, Columbus, OH 43229 Archived at http://www.egroups.com/list/fa/ **
Re: Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European tensions
At 3:57 AM -0400 4/28/00, Matthew Gaylor wrote: >Activist Mailing List - http://get.to/activist > > > >WSWS > >Revelations about Echelon spy network intensify US-European tensions > >By Steve James - 12 April 2000 > > >The British government is losing its fight to suppress debate in the >European Parliament on the role of US intelligence gathering, >particularly a spy system known as Echelon in which the UK has long >been a crucial partner. ...rest deleted... Matthew, I am now seeing you send the same articles--whether on State Farm GPS usage, Echelon, whatever--appearing on multiple lists. Why? You list your "activist mailing list." Isn't this enough? Most of these news items are readily available from browsers. I encourage you to rethink this wide spamming of many lists with nonoriginal material. I appreciate your activism, but it is not necessary to send news articles to Cypherpunks, Nym, Fight Censorship, and so on. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
