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Hello, A friend from the IRC going by the name MaxEntrpy thought you would appreciate seeing this mail I sent to M$ today, so here it is... Text: Dear Kim, I today browsed your www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate pages, and have a few things to say in retort to what I read. On the page: http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate/newsletter/default.htm#6 Microsoft states: Unprecedented Government Proposals Would Harm American Consumers, Industry And Economy Microsoft Corp. today said the government's unprecedented regulatory scheme is unjustifiably punitive and would be a major setback for the American economy and consumers. The company said the government's proposal threatens a core principle in the American economy: that are encouraged to compete by creating innovative products that respond to the marketplace and consumers. Here's what I "read" from that: -Microsoft feels unduly targeted, even though they deserve it (further reasoning to this is below...) -Microsoft is skirting the original point of the lawsuits by miring the argument into one which now seeks to INVOLVE more people than it originally was targeted at; the States in the suit, and Microsoft. -Microsoft's idea of the so-called "core principal in the American economy" is misused in this case; as the only core principal I know of only applies to companies that do not partake in PROVEN and UNDENIABLY monopolistic practices. "Microsoft never could have created Windows and Office if they were in separate companies. Innovations that began within Office have quickly been incorporated into Windows so they are available to every applications developer." -Wow, finally a section containing clean truisms. Yes, A company like Microsoft could probably never have created software like that if there were like any other company. Examples would be Corel, VALinux, and Linux PPC. They created products similar, and in my opinion, far better. They allso give credence to operating systems that ARE NOT rooted in closed source trees. "Dismantling Microsoft would hurt the company's ability to continue to innovate, and that would hurt consumers." -Outright lie. Dismantling MS would only hurt your consumers if you continued to attempt to develop software in the same manner that you do today. It seems that the very type of innovations you seem to hold so high and cherish greatly DO NOT apply to the way you work internally. It would logically mean that if you are truly "innovative" that you could simply find a better way to work around any and all stumbling blocks. Or, am I wrong? "It's anti-consumer to tear apart the development teams that created two of the most innovative technology products and that have helped to revolutionize productivity. " -Tell us WHY it's anti-comsumer, please. Your statement here seems empty to me. All I am left to infer from such an empty statement is that you think it would anti-consumer only because you would not be able to compete with better, more innovative products from other companies who CAN adapt and work around the aforementioned stumbling blocks that you would then be faced with. Please, don't let our minds wander. (yes, that was sarcasm) "Microsoft has a proven track record of delivering consumer value as a single company." -Where does Microsoft prove this? I hold you to the same level of factual competency that I hold other companies to; so, please humor me and maybe post some real data. -In terms of value, I don't see how paying $1000+ for Exchange 5 (and a copy of Nt4) to simply have a web-enabled/pop/imap mail server, when things like Apache, SendMail, Q-POPer, and FreeLDAP server packages exist. "Microsoft has worked hard for years to develop Windows and Office, and these products have provided great benefits to millions of consumers. The message of today is that if you invent two great products, the government may someday take one of them away. -Microsoft has worked hard? Sounds like you didn't innovate enough (i.e. MS could have simply downloaded the source code to Linux or BSd and gone from there.. oh, wait, Microsoft kinda did I guess; Nt mostly works.. again, deal with the sarcasm) -In regards to the Government "taking away" your rights to software as a company, I agree with them. If I own a business that participates in monopolistic practices, I expect to be reprimanded for it. Innovate around the problem or face your demise, Microsoft. "Customers, partners and shareholders can expect that Microsoft will continue to compete in a fair and legal manner, as we believe we always have," said Steve Ballmer, Microsoft president and CEO -I would like to see proof that Microsoft, it's subsidiaries, and associated firms have at all times, and in all places, stuck to what Steve had gone on record in saying. -I may be just a dumb college student, but
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The file you requested: XcAuctionLite.zip
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Can you take the TRUTH?
Note: You are receiving this email because you subscribed to or have visited DailyOnline, one of the Internet's most popular email lists. To cancel your e-subscription, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. The truth is, there are many legitimate ways to make easy money on the internet. Of course there are also many scams, this is NOT one of them. If you have ever considered making some extra money part time or full time on the internet then the following may be of interest to you. Go ahead, take your time :-) Kick back, relax, think about it awhile. Maybe have a cup of coffee. Or take charge of your future and go to: http://www.geocities.com/dayline2001/NEWS.html
Can you take the TRUTH?
Note: You are receiving this email because you subscribed to or have visited DailyOnline, one of the Internet's most popular email lists. To cancel your e-subscription, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. The truth is, there are many legitimate ways to make easy money on the internet. Of course there are also many scams, this is NOT one of them. If you have ever considered making some extra money part time or full time on the internet then the following may be of interest to you. Go ahead, take your time :-) Kick back, relax, think about it awhile. Maybe have a cup of coffee. Or take charge of your future and go to: http://www.geocities.com/dayline2001/NEWS.html
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Do you have a product or service you would like to market on the internet? Would you like to attract more traffic to your business or website? If so, we can help! There are three major ways to market your product or service on the internet. They are search engine placement, banner ads, and bulk email advertising. Getting good search engine ranking is an endless battle that takes many months of exhaustive efforts to find out what type of site submissions are accepted or rejected by the major search engines, with no guarantee of even getting placed at all. Another way to reach the internet audience is with banner ads. Banner ads can be very costly, and are for the most part overlooked or ignored by potential prospects. Bulk email advertising, on the other hand, is the fastest, least expensive way to get your message to a massive base of prospective customers in a very short time. Our software product, Desktop Server 2000, is the fastest selling bulk email software on the internet. Why? Because it turns your home computer into a professional bulk email server. It is also extremely user friendly. So friendly, many users have their children sending out email for them while they are at work. In no time at all, you will be watching your computer blasting out thousands of emails per hour! Desktop Server 2000 uses 15 channels to send your bulk email out with maximum speed. Cheaper imitation products use only one. Desktop Server 2000 will cloak your bulk emails and internet service provider to help protect you from getting shut down. Other bulk email software products don't. (By the way, bulk emailing is not illegal, but a small minority of internet users frown on it because they know how well it works, and some are losing business to those who are using it). Also, when you purchase Desktop Server 2000, you will get 50 million free email addresses, along with free telephone technical support! We are also throwing in, free of charge, a copy of Atomic Harvester 98, which gives you the ability to go out on the internet and automatically extract thousands of fresh new email addresses per hour. Try to match this package deal elsewhere! For most businesses, one good new customer will offset the cost of our product in no time. Just think, if you only sent out 50,000 emails (less than one day's emailing) and stopped using it after getting one percent of these as new customers (500), how would that help your business? You may ask, "Who reads those bulk emails anyway?" The answer is, most everyone does. In fact, you're reading one right now yourself. You can expect a one to two percent response rate on average with bulk email advertising. If you want to find out more about Desktop Server 2000 please visit our website at http://www.marketing-usa.net. If you're ready to order online now, simply log on to our secure server at http://www.marketing-usa.net/order.html to use your Visa, MasterCard, or American Express. We will furnish you with an unlock code and a download site as soon as we process your order. See you at the top! Marketing-USA Software Products http://www.marketing-usa.net (Note: You have automatically been removed from our mailing list. However, if you so desire, simply type "remove" in the subject line when you reply to this email at [EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Dear ChipCenter member, Thank you for registering for ChipCenter! As a new ChipCenter member, you have full access to the entire ChipCenter Web site, including our Knowledge Centers, SuperCatalog, ongoing discussion forums, special offers and the new material we add each day at http://www.chipcenter.com. Weve recorded the following registration information for you: Username: cypherpunk Password: not displayed for your protection Also, please remember that you can update your ChipCenter membership information at any time by clicking on the "Change Personal Profile" link located at the bottom of the navigation bar on every ChipCenter page. Please save this email in a safe place so you can continue to enjoy full access to ChipCenter. And thanks again for becoming a ChipCenter member! We look forward to seeing you on the site. ChipCenter Customer Service http://www.chipcenter.com p.s. To experience ChipCenter to the fullest, we recommend you do the following: - Use Internet Explorer or Netscape version 4.0 or higher - Allow ChipCenter to set a cookie on your system - Enable Java - Use a monitor set to 800x600 resolution or higher - Bookmark the ChipCenter home page rather than sub-pages, in case we have to change the site structure - Read the SuperCatalog help file at http://www.chipcenter.com/sc_help.html
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We have selected you! -YC EtiPFYIEzN S
WE HAVE SELECTED YOU FOR THIS EXCLUSIVE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY! Be financially independent in the year 2000! $15,000 cash a month potential working only 5 to 15 hours a week! No competition, no inventory, no product hassles. Not MLM -- No Selling -- Not a Get Rich Quick program. "90% still in business after 10 years." - SBA Prime locations filling fast! Reserve your future now! Complete individual training. Successful support staff on call 24/7! VISIT http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/_ht_a/jacwtt/2972340761/39.147.33.113/ now to learn more about this exclusive offer! If for any reason you would not like to receive any further mailings from us, please visit http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/_ht_a/jacwtt/2972340761/39.147.33.113/ this is an automated removal system - inquiries to this address cannot be answered. Should you have any additional comments, you may contact us at: 244 Madison Ave. Suite 244, New York, NY 10016 (212)-328-3030 ext. 7967. Copyright (c) 2000, All rights reserved. The information in this document is proprietary and confidential and is protected under United States and International Copyright and Trademark laws. No part of this document may be reproduced or transmitted, in any form by any means whatsoever. Any such use of this document in any form, without the express prior written consent of the author is prohibited by law. 170.2
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You have been added to Alternative Health
The owner of this list has moved it to ListBot. If you don't think you should be on this list, please send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list owner has included the following welcome message: http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ Your HEALTH is the most Important Investment you will ever make. What does exercise do? The goals of exercise are to improve oxygen delivery and metabolic processes, build strength and endurance, decrease body fat, and improve movement in joints and muscles. All of these benefits are essential to good health, and everyone should try to incorporate an exercise routine into their daily lives. No one is too young or too old to exercise. There are risks, however, to strenuous exercise, which people should discuss with a physician (see What Are the Hazards of Exercise?, below). One-half of all people who begin a vigorous training regime drop out within a year, so the key to attaining and maintaining physical fitness is to find activities that are exciting, challenging, and satisfying. The American Heart Association recommends individuals engage in 30-minute or longer workouts at least three or four times per week, and exercising more than five times a week for 10 to 24 minutes each session may be closer to optimum. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ener-boost.html +++ Effective Nutritional Combination to Help Improve Energy Levels, Reduce Fatigue, Boost Endurance. Recommended for people who perform regular aerobic exercise and also for those involced in weight training. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/vp004.html Arthri-Care Nutritional Support Sixpack http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ghr15.html The public is well aware that the replacement of many of these hormones can help deter the effects of aging. However, HGH surpasses all of these other hormones in preventing biological aging. Documented tests have even shown HGH to reverse the biological clock by 20 years or more. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/stepattack.html +++ diet and iodine Iodine is a trace mineral and an essential nutrient. Iodized salt is the primary food source of iodine. Iodine is also widely available in seafood; cod, sea bass, haddock, and perch are good sources. Kelp is the most common vegetable seafood that is a rich source of iodine. Dairy products and plants grown in soil that is rich in iodine are also good sources. Thank you, The Health Center __ To unsubscribe, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You have been added to Alternative Health
The owner of this list has moved it to ListBot. If you don't think you should be on this list, please send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list owner has included the following welcome message: http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ Your HEALTH is the most Important Investment you will ever make. What does exercise do? The goals of exercise are to improve oxygen delivery and metabolic processes, build strength and endurance, decrease body fat, and improve movement in joints and muscles. All of these benefits are essential to good health, and everyone should try to incorporate an exercise routine into their daily lives. No one is too young or too old to exercise. There are risks, however, to strenuous exercise, which people should discuss with a physician (see What Are the Hazards of Exercise?, below). One-half of all people who begin a vigorous training regime drop out within a year, so the key to attaining and maintaining physical fitness is to find activities that are exciting, challenging, and satisfying. The American Heart Association recommends individuals engage in 30-minute or longer workouts at least three or four times per week, and exercising more than five times a week for 10 to 24 minutes each session may be closer to optimum. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ener-boost.html +++ Effective Nutritional Combination to Help Improve Energy Levels, Reduce Fatigue, Boost Endurance. Recommended for people who perform regular aerobic exercise and also for those involced in weight training. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/vp004.html Arthri-Care Nutritional Support Sixpack http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ghr15.html The public is well aware that the replacement of many of these hormones can help deter the effects of aging. However, HGH surpasses all of these other hormones in preventing biological aging. Documented tests have even shown HGH to reverse the biological clock by 20 years or more. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/stepattack.html +++ diet and iodine Iodine is a trace mineral and an essential nutrient. Iodized salt is the primary food source of iodine. Iodine is also widely available in seafood; cod, sea bass, haddock, and perch are good sources. Kelp is the most common vegetable seafood that is a rich source of iodine. Dairy products and plants grown in soil that is rich in iodine are also good sources. Thank you, The Health Center __ To unsubscribe, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You have been added to Alternative Health
The owner of this list has moved it to ListBot. If you don't think you should be on this list, please send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list owner has included the following welcome message: http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ Your HEALTH is the most Important Investment you will ever make. What does exercise do? The goals of exercise are to improve oxygen delivery and metabolic processes, build strength and endurance, decrease body fat, and improve movement in joints and muscles. All of these benefits are essential to good health, and everyone should try to incorporate an exercise routine into their daily lives. No one is too young or too old to exercise. There are risks, however, to strenuous exercise, which people should discuss with a physician (see What Are the Hazards of Exercise?, below). One-half of all people who begin a vigorous training regime drop out within a year, so the key to attaining and maintaining physical fitness is to find activities that are exciting, challenging, and satisfying. The American Heart Association recommends individuals engage in 30-minute or longer workouts at least three or four times per week, and exercising more than five times a week for 10 to 24 minutes each session may be closer to optimum. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ener-boost.html +++ Effective Nutritional Combination to Help Improve Energy Levels, Reduce Fatigue, Boost Endurance. Recommended for people who perform regular aerobic exercise and also for those involced in weight training. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/vp004.html Arthri-Care Nutritional Support Sixpack http://www.anphealthcenter.com/ghr15.html The public is well aware that the replacement of many of these hormones can help deter the effects of aging. However, HGH surpasses all of these other hormones in preventing biological aging. Documented tests have even shown HGH to reverse the biological clock by 20 years or more. +++ http://www.anphealthcenter.com/stepattack.html +++ diet and iodine Iodine is a trace mineral and an essential nutrient. Iodized salt is the primary food source of iodine. Iodine is also widely available in seafood; cod, sea bass, haddock, and perch are good sources. Kelp is the most common vegetable seafood that is a rich source of iodine. Dairy products and plants grown in soil that is rich in iodine are also good sources. Thank you, The Health Center __ To unsubscribe, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
50 Free Prints - Have You Ordered Yours?
Seize your opportunities in this issue of PhotoPoint Flash, our bimonthly newsletter, to do something special for Dad and for yourself! Plus, introducing more PhotoPoint functionality and convenience for Mac-owning members and another member tip from our FAQ files. This issue of PhotoPoint Flash is sponsored by Gateway. Relive your memories with a Gateway Photo:)Ware Package! Add pictures to e-mails, cards, and just about anything you can create on your Gateway PC. Everything you need is included - hardware, software, even training! Click http://www.photopoint.com/redirects/gateway.html Also sponsored by the PhotoPoint Digital Store, where you can get great deals on Sony VAIO Tower and Notebook PCs, starting at just $1399.00 - with no sales tax and low shipping charges! Check 'em out at http://www.photopoint.com/redirects/sonyviao.html Order Your 50 FREE PersonalPrints(TM)-- a $25 Value -- Now Time's ticking down on your 50 free 4x6 PhotoPoint PersonalPrints, valued at $25. So what are you waiting for? Remember, with PhotoPoint's PersonalPrints, you can order 35mm-quality prints of your favorite PhotoPoint pictures, have personal messages printed on the back, and have them mailed to anyone anywhere - all directly from your PhotoPoint albums. Powered by Shutterfly and processed and printed on Kodak quality paper, PersonalPrints are easy, fast, and fun. If you haven't already, order your 50 free prints now at http://www.photopoint.com/personalprints/index.html Win a Father's Day Gift for That Special Dad . . . in PhotoPoint's Father's Day Sweepstakes, sponsored by PhotoPoint.com and AmazingMail.com. To enter, just create and send an AmazingMail picture postcard personalized with your favorite photo and greeting. For each card you send, you'll be entered to win a free Acer 640BU scanner - each a $129 value, courtesy of Acer Peripherals. Five prizes will be awarded each week for three weeks leading up to Father's Day, June 18th. Check it out at http://www.photopoint.com/special/fathersday.html If you've recently become a PhotoPoint.com member, remember that your first three AmazingMail postcards are FREE. After that, they're just 99 cents each. Send yours now and enter to win in the Father's Day Sweepstakes at PhotoPoint.com. And if you're shopping for gifts, be sure to stop by the Digital Store At PhotoPoint.com, where we've got great deals on PDAs, digital cameras, and other stuff for gadget-loving dads and grads. See it all at http://photopoint.ssdonline.com/ Now Available for Download: iView Multimedia 3.8 Mac Photo Organizer Attention Mac-owning members: Now available on our Software Downloads page, iView Multimedia 3.8 is the fast, powerful, yet easy-to-use media asset manager with great "photo organizer" features you'll really enjoy using with your PhotoPoint photos. This award-winning application lets you organize, display, print, catalog, search, and enjoy your images in convenient new ways. For example, the iUpload module lets you select a group of photos for upload to PhotoPoint. You can also organize your photo collections by catalog, display images in three views, and much, much more. iView Multimedia 3.8 for Macintosh. Download it now for FREE at http://www.photopoint.com/downloads/index.html Customize your NextCard Visa with any photo! It's easy! Plus, get great rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR. All in under 30 seconds! Apply now at: http://www.photopoint.com/redirects/nextcard.html FAQs: Membership Tips In each issue of PhotoPoint Flash, we feature at least one frequently asked question about using PhotoPoint.com - and the answer, of course! Here's this week's tip. Q: Can I change the way photos are displayed within my albums? A: Yes. The "View As" feature allows you to choose from one of three different view modes: Pictures, Details, and List. To choose one of these views, first open one of your albums. Click the box just above the "View As" button on the far left side of the screen. The list of options appears. Choose one, and then click the "View As" button. Your view mode will change to what you selected. If you would prefer not to receive this newsletter in the future, please reply to this message with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line of your e-mail.
You have been added to Celebrity Hack
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Re: PGP: Are you ALL this blind?
And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
[A veteran free speech activist in Cambridge, Mass. sent me this. Any offers of mirroring should go to the list, where I assume they'll be duly forwarded. I wonder how long the HTML files in question here would last on a Geocities/etc account. --Declan] --- Hi Declan, I know you're aware of the case of Curley v. NAMBLA, which has very serious First Amendment implications. Jeffrey Curley was a 10-year-old who was murdered in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in October of 1997. The parents are alleging that the murderers were driven by NAMBLA literature in general and specifically by the contents of NAMBLA's web site. After the suit was filed in May of this year, the current NAMBLA web site was taken down. Frisoli, the Curley lawyer, has been making very outrageous and false statements about what was on the web site. Because the media has no access to the site, no one can contradict him. A vicious media war is now being waged against the ACLU and other free-expression advocates for defending freedom of expression in this case. Few reporters seem even interested in finding out the contents of NAMBLA literature or the contents of the web site as of 10/97. But even if a fair-minded reporter did have this interest, he or she would be out of luck. Printed material from NAMBLA is difficult to find. Members of NAMBLA will speak to the press only under conditions of strict anonymity because they fear for their lives. And the web site is not accessible. I am not a NAMBLA member, but I believe that the First Amendment applies to them. I have obtained the web files as of 10/97. I don't wish to put them up myself for a variety of reasons. First of all, my ISP might make me take them down. Also, I am involved in another case which I don't want tarred with the NAMBLA brush. There is no court injunction against the publication of the materials. But a site outside the US might be best in any case. Anyway, if you can help me find someone to take the files and put them up, please let me know.
Perfect HOME WORK! for You - cypherpunks -KQSR
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On 60 inches tonight, damn you all
http://foxnews.com/national/court/scotus_roadblocks.sml # #Drug Checkpoints Struck Down by High Court # #Tuesday, November 28, 2000 # #In a divided 6-3 ruling, the Supreme Court on Monday struck down #as unconstitutional random roadblocks intended to catch criminals #trafficking drugs. # #The ruling weighed privacy rights against the interests of law #enforcement and found that Indianapolis' use of drug-sniffing #dogs to check all cars pulled over at the roadblocks was an #unreasonable search under the Constitution. # #The majority, in an opinion written by Justice Sandra Day #O'Connor, said the ruling does not affect other kinds of police #roadblocks such as border checks and drunken-driving checkpoints. #Those have already been found constitutional. # #But the reasoning behind those kinds of roadblocks - chiefly #that the benefit to the public outweighs the inconvenience - #cannot be applied broadly, O'Connor wrote. # #"If this case were to rest on such a high level of generality, #there would be little check on the authorities' ability to #construct roadblocks for almost any conceivable law enforcement #purpose," the opinion said. # #The three dissenters were the court's most conservative justices: #Chief Justice William Rehnquist and Justices Antonin Scalia and #Clarence Thomas. # #Lawyers for Indianapolis conceded that the roadblocks erected #there in 1998 detained far more innocent motorists than criminals. # #The city said its primary aim was to catch drug criminals. Civil #liberties advocates called the practice heavy-handed and risky, #and asked the Supreme Court to ban it. # #Law enforcement in and of itself is not a good enough reason #to stop innocent motorists, the majority ruling concluded. # #The court was not swayed by the argument that the severity of #the drug problem in some city neighborhoods justified the #searches. # #"While we do not limit the purposes that may justify a checkpoint #program to any rigid set of categories, we decline to approve #a program whose primary purpose is ultimately indistinguishable #from the general interest in crime control," the majority opinion #said. # #Cars were pulled over at random in high-crime neighborhoods in #Indianapolis, motorists questioned, and a drug-sniffing dog led #around the cars. Most motorists were detained for about three #minutes. # #The city conducted six roadblocks over four months in 1998 before #the practice was challenged in federal court. # #Police stopped 1,161 cars and trucks and made 104 arrests. #Fifty-five of the arrests were on drug charges.
CDR: Have you seen the developerWorks newsletter?
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This mail (and all Naughty Mail sm) is never sent unsolicited. TO UNSUB JUST THIS LIST: send a message to your personal unsub address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUB ALL LISTS: send a message to your personal purge address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO MAIL TO LISTS: http://www.naughtymail.com/rental/ 100% Spam Free Hey Fellas, My name is Debbie and I love myself. I look at myself in the mirror and I get wet all over. I need DICKS. I want to suck you. I want to fuck you. I want you to stick your dick up my ass. I WANT YOU AND I WANT IT NOW Come play with me and all my friends! Come inside and see me in the nets number 1 site. FREE 7 DAY MEMBERSHIP!!! http://www.purehardcore.com/partners/NAMAIL.cgi?phc You won't believe your eyes as my pussy gets pumped and the cum flies all over my face. Don't be shy - I'm not:) Come check out the pictures of my hornyfriends! I'll be waiting for you!
Re: Spammage: I Surf, YOU GET PAID!!!!!! www.alladvantage.com
GBLX.NET - Looks like you've killed the alladvantage.com spammers! Thanks! If you haven't, I can send you the original to the spam this user is complaining about. ~~ At 10:01 PM 05/02/2000 -0700, Dragos Ruiu wrote: >I would recommend that everyone who received this forward it back to Mr. Pio >at [EMAIL PROTECTED] to make the point that this is unacceptable behaviour. > >Just once each should suffice, and not contravene any usage policies :-). > >I did... Call it distributed spam negative reinforcement. :-) :-) :-} >Let's hope this will be sufficient to reinforce the lesson >about what not to do on public technical mailing lists. Usually that sort of thing just feeds the animals. In particular, it tells the spammer you've got a valid address, so you can be spammed with more spam. It makes more sense to drop email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], who will kill the account if they get enough complaints. The more interesting problem is what to do about http://www.alladvantage.com/ which is the spamhaus that this spammer and many others use. You can send them a complaint, and they'll tell you they'll drop that bad bad bad user's account, but I haven't seen any evidence they'll stop doing promoting spammers, because that's their business. On the other hand "tracert alladvantage.com" gets as far as gblx.net, and then dies with "Destination Net Unreachable", so their hosting center has probably done the right thing, or else they're being deservedly mailbombed. You could call the person listed in the whois record on the phone... Tsai, Alex (ATX201) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ALLADVANTAGE.COM P.O. Box 50187 Palo Alto , CA 94303 510-783-7249 Note that +1-510 is the area code across the bay from Palo Alto. ~ Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
Re: Spammage: I Surf, YOU GET PAID!!!!!! Promise
I would recommend that everyone who received this forward it back to Mr. Pio at [EMAIL PROTECTED] to make the point that this is unacceptable behaviour. Just once each should suffice, and not contravene any usage policies :-). I did... Call it distributed spam negative reinforcement. :-) :-) :-} Let's hope this will be sufficient to reinforce the lesson about what not to do on public technical mailing lists. cheers, --dr -- dursec.com / kyx.net - we're from the future http://www.dursec.com learn kanga-foo from security experts: CanSecWest - May 10-12 Vancouver Speakers: Ron Gula/NSW, Ken Williams/E&Y, Marty Roesch/Hiverworld, Fyodor/insecure.org, RainForestPuppy/wiretrip.net, Theo de Raadt/OpenBSD Lance Spitzner/Sun, Fyodor Yarochkin/KALUG, Max Vision/whitehats.com
FW: New "I LOVE YOU VIRUS" READ IMMEDIATELY !!
Additional information re: "ILOVEU" Bug. Chris -Original Message- From: Sherry Snyder [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:22 AM To: 'All Alexandria Personnel' Subject: New "I LOVE YOU VIRUS" READ IMMEDIATELY !! Importance: High I have been instructed to send this message warning you of a new version of the "I LOVE YOU" virus !! This time the subject contains nothing but the letters "FW" . It appears as though you have been forwarded a message, however there is nothing else in the subject line except "FW". If you receive a message like this and you don't know who it's from, DELETE IT and DON'T OPEN IT. If you have any questions, please contact Dan Zapata. Regards, Sherry
Re: Spammage: I Surf, YOU GET PAID!!!!!! www.alladvantage.com
Bill Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > GBLX.NET - Looks like you've killed the alladvantage.com spammers! Thanks! > If you haven't, I can send you the original to the spam this user is > complaining about. > ~~ No they haven't. The wankers at alladvantage.com are just violating protocol by firewalling ICMP packets involved in tracerouting and pinging their sites. Telnetting to port 80 still presents a connection. GBLX should terminate their service just for that, in my opinion. > The more interesting problem is what to do about > http://www.alladvantage.com/ > which is the spamhaus that this spammer and many others use. > You can send them a complaint, and they'll tell you they'll drop that > bad bad bad user's account, but I haven't seen any evidence they'll > stop doing promoting spammers, because that's their business. > On the other hand "tracert alladvantage.com" gets as far as gblx.net, > and then dies with "Destination Net Unreachable", so their hosting center has > probably done the right thing, or else they're being deservedly mailbombed. As long as their provider, GBLX, is getting money for feeding them, I don't really expect that they will be dropped. And because GBLX is presumably a large provider, their upstream probably doesn't want to drop *them*, and it just gets worse and worse. The Internet just needs a maturity upgrade. That's impossible and strongarm enforcement of it is not desirable, so the next idea which springs to mind is creating privlidged, entrance and access restricted communities and simply conducting business in them. Such a system also could have integrated strong crypto, and other enhancements.
Re: You have been added to Alternative Health
> CDR: Re: CDR:..."). But an alternative that fixes that problem would > be a separate header to carry the keyword using the X- convention. I think your Spamming Detection System would probably ignore my posts: my mail server strips all headers except for the from/to fields on every single incoming/outgoing message. This also has the added disadvantage of not letting me know which messages belong to which list, unless the mantainers are polite enough to add a footer somewhere. Alexandre Alvarez [EMAIL PROTECTED] * And no, unfortunately getting another mail server is not an option.
FATHER'S DAY IS JUNE 18. ARE YOU READY?
FATHER'S DAY IS JUNE 18. ARE YOU READY? Ready or not, we're here to make your Father's Day shopping a breeze. Browse for great gifts - at terrific prices - throughout our site. Whether your Dad likes power tools or gas grills, gardening or woodworking, we've got it all. Visit our Tools section http://www.sears.com/tools and our Lawn & Garden section http://www.sears.com/lawnandgarden for loads of smart ideas. (Want something really cool? Check out the Craftsman(R) Redi-Drill in this week's Tool Specials.) Don't delay - Shop for Dad today at http://www.sears.com FOR THE CHOOSEY DAD If you have a Dad who'd rather choose his own stuff (and who, aside from Dad, can really tell the difference between reciprocating saws?), we have the one-gift-fits-all solution that makes everybody happy. Give him a Sears Gift Card! Gift Cards are available for purchase online in denominations of $10 - $300, and they're redeemable at any Sears store - for anything he likes. Buy yours today at http://www.sears.com THIS WEEK -> Lawn & Garden specials - Kenmore(R) Gas Grill, Craftsman Lawn Mower -> Tool specials - Craftsman(R) Redi-Drill, Craftsman Mechanic's Tool Set -> Appliance specials - Hoover(R) Steam Vac, Kenmore(R) Electric Range, Kenmore Days -> In-store specials at a Sears near you - introducing the Whole Home Collection LAWN & GARDEN SPECIALS -> SAVE $50! Kenmore Gas Grill, now only $149.99 (regular $199.99). 35,000 BTU, 754 sq. in. cooking space, porcelain cooking grids, side burner, more! (Item #15595. Sale dates 6/4/00 - 6/10/00.) -> SAVE $40! Craftsman Gas Lawn Mower, just $219.99 (regular $259.99). 6.0 hp mulcher/mower with 21 in. deck, side discharge, rear bag. Includes 20 oz. of oil, bonus gas can and fuel stabilizer. Fully assembled. (Item #38839. Sale dates 6/4/00 - 6/10/00.) To see ALL lawn & garden specials for this week, go to HotBuys at http://www.sears.com/lawnandgarden TOOL SPECIALS -> FATHER'S DAY PICK! Craftsman Redi-Drill, just $99.99 (regular $119.99). This very different, very clever drill/driver lets you store and change bits in the drill housing itself! With this innovative tool, you'll never fumble with bits or search for a chuck-key again! Cordless, 3/8-in., 12-volt with 1-hour charger, 2 batteries, 3 screwdriver bits, 2 drill bits. (Item #27491. Sale dates 6/4/00 - 6/10/00.) -> Craftsman Mechanic's Tool Set, just $79.99 (Special value, over $160 if purchased separately). 101 pieces, includes: 3 quick-release ratchets in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2-in. drive sizes, 93 assorted deep and shallow sockets in both standard and metric sizes, guaranteed forever! (Item #33101. While quantities last.) To see ALL tool specials for this week, go to HotBuys at http://www.sears.com/tools APPLIANCE SPECIALS -> Hoover Steam Vac Plus 1000, just $199.88 (regular $229.99). 5 turbine powered rotating brushes, onboard tool and hose storage, variable brush speed, self-contained extraction (Item #89808. Close-out, while quantities last.) ->SAVE $100! Kenmore Electric Range, now only $399.99 (regular $499.99). 30 in. range with 5.0 cu. ft. oven, electronic controls, auto oven shut-off, clock & timer, more. (Item #94492. Sale dates 6/4/00 - 6/14/00.) -> KENMORE DAYS! Zero % financing until January 2001 on all home appliances over $399 when you use your Sears card.* (see below for abbreviated rules) -> Free delivery (with mail-in rebate), on all Kenmore washers and dryers over $399.** (see below for abbreviated rules) To see ALL appliance specials for this week, go to http://www2.sears.com/HAhtml/weekly/index.htm In-Store Specials -> Introducing the Whole Home Collection from Sears. -> Sears Exclusive comforter sets, only $59.99 Browse all of our in-store specials, this and every week, at http://www.sears.com/specials If you would no longer like to receive e-mailed special events information, sales notifications or other messages from sears.com, go to http://www.sears.com/preferences and follow the "Unsubscribe" instructions. Your e-mail address will be removed from our marketing list. Thank you! * (6/4/00-6/10/00) 0% financing until January 2001. Available for qualified purchases when you use your Sears card. No finance charges, no billing, and no payments due during 0% period. Regular credit terms apply after 0% period. Finance charges continue on existing balances from prior purchases. Failure to maintain your account in good standing will terminate the 0% offer and penalties may apply. Sears Card/Sears Premier Card: APR is up to 25.99%. SearsCharge Plus: APR is 21% (AR may be lower). Minimum monthly finance charge of $.50 payable if any finance charge is due. Sears Mastercard(R): Current APR is up to 24%. Minimum monthly finance charge of $1 payable if any finance charge is due. Sears Home Improvement A
Welcome to Gardenwarmers -- our Free gifts to you!
We have added the following email address, at your request: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Welcome to the Gardenwarmers Online Community! Your free email subscription has been entered and you will begin to receive the best original short stories you will find anywhere about garden experiences. You will receive your stories once a week -- every Thursday morning. So, before going to work, or tackling your daily tasks, just steal a moment, grab a cup of coffee, and enjoy your Gardenwarmers. As a new Gardenwarmers member, you are entitled to some wonderful free gifts. These are just some of the benefits our members enjoy. Just click on the following links to take advantage of these free offers: Up to $30 of Skin Care products for FREE with $10 purchase http://www.aristatech.com/g Chat with Real Sound http://www.1freeplace.com/heart/chat.htm Win a Porsche or Trip to Australia http://www.1freeplace.com/heart/mi.htm 12 CD's for the price of 1. Buy nothing more! http://www.afreeplace.com/heart/bmg.htm This is your community and we welcome your contributions. Please feel free to send us your stories, garden tips and other tidbits. Watch your email for your first Gardenwarmer soon! Thank you and have have a great day! -- Laurie Patterson, Editor ___ Brighten your days with our new Heartwarmers book. The perfect gift too! Available online at Amazon. Get it today! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580623085/heart ___ Invite your friends to join us. Just have them send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To remove yourself from this list, address your email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more info on our community, visit our homepage: http://www.gardenwarmers.com ___
Latest in the you-gotta-be-kidding dept
http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/00/153556.html New Software Speeds Search For Child Porn New Software Speeds Search For Child Porn By Dick Kelsey, Newsbytes SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A., 11 Aug 2000, 5:19 PM CST A Silicon Valley software company believes it has developed a way to cut the time it takes law officers to find child pornography from months to minutes. BayTSP.com says it designed software to find copyright infringement on the Internet or stored on hard drives and soon realized it could sniff out just about anything, including files containing kiddie porn. "When law enforcement agencies determine that someone has child pornography on their computer, they have to go through that computer file-by-file," BayTSP.com spokesman Pete Hazarian told Newsbytes. "It can take months. We can do it in a couple of hours." The software "spiders" hard drives to detect the images. Likening a computer file's unique signature to DNA, BayTSP.com says the program reads the signature, then uses it to scan the Net or hard drive for files that match. It's able to identify images that have been altered or cleverly hidden in a hard drive, and can even weed out photos that were distributed years ago. As soon as authorities could obtain a child pornographic image, the search would begin, Hazarian said. "If we can get hold of known child porn images, extract the DNA out of it and put that on our servers, we can scan newsgroups, we can scan the Internet for those images." In short order, BayTSP.com's technology can locate the image. "We can even identify the e-mail address of the person who posted it." What would make this system work best is a central repository of pornographic images. Several different law enforcement agencies keep child porn databases but there is no central resource, similar to the FBI's national fingerprint database, Hazarian said. BayTSP can be found on the Web at http://www.baytsp.com * * * The last paragraph brings to mind those old rumors of the largest collection of porn in the world being in the Vatican library. Any "great library" of kid porn would be the crown jewel target for pedos, hackers, pedohackers, or someone wanting prestige. Or loads of money, from the right buyer. (And of course the usual caveats apply re Snake Oil Software.) -dj whatever you do, don't think about an elephant -- http://dj.frogfarm.org/ ...for the best in unapproved information "There is an email in which somebody says exactly that." "Is that the one that said he was going to kill all the lawyers and judges?" "No, it is a different one." - MPAA v 2600, June 6 Protective Order Hearing
Re: Re: PGP: Are you ALL this blind?
Please Proof-Read your documents before you send them, 'dear' sheep. Sorry for this: - "all those of semi-competence" >> "semi-competence+" ***Invert this: [All releases after this flux are icky, prior are good.] >As we *ALL* _SHOULD_ know, PGP releases after the original release of 2.6.2 (there >may be a legitimate interim version, however its life span was limited) prior the >introduction of external influences and the release of the 5.*+ series and the >replaced 2.6.2 distributions, are the only semi-secure and legitimate releases of the >PGP algos/code. > " Or is the fact ... bothered to elucidate the reality to the rest of the world?" >> APPEND: " everyone with comprehension FAILED " ; >This is the epitome of failure, on one of many fronts. "on one" >> "on all" "And?" -- And this is the trigerpoint for your responses... Why did *YOU* intentionally fail so miserably? :) - -WLG [Sorry for additional message, however, that mis-wording of the first stated paragraph is kinda adverse to the message :( ]
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Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Jodi Hoffman writes: > Declan McCullagh forwards: >> Frisoli, the Curley lawyer, has been making very outrageous and >> false statements about what was on the web site. Because the media >> has no access to the site, no one can contradict him. ... Printed >> material from NAMBLA is difficult to find. Members of NAMBLA will >> speak to the press only under conditions of strict anonymity >> because they fear for their lives. And the web site is not >> accessible. > I knew there was a reason I printed out NAMBLA's website > throughout the years. Maybe I should contact this child's parents as > well as their attorney. I think that would be an excellent idea. The best thing for this case would be to see what was actually on the web site. Of course, I would suggest showing it to everyone, and not just the Curley family lawyers. Because of NAMBLA had nothing to do with the murder, I'm sure you wouldn't want to see them falsely found liable. > I wonder if you would tell the parents to their face how important > you think it is to preserve the information put out by the people > who helped cause their son to be murdered, rather than doing > something to help prevent it from happening again. So your printouts of the NAMBLA web site show where they encourage people to rape and/or murder children? Do you have any quotes? > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy Always a good quote. So what is the truth about what was on the NAMBLA web site? Yell it from the rooftops. -- Colin
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 03:11 AM 9/13/00 -0400, Jodi Hoffman wrote: > I knew there was a reason I printed out NAMBLA's website >throughout the years. Maybe I should contact this child's parents as >well as their attorney. Maybe you should do the same. Maybe you really >are a member of NAMBLA. It certainly sounds like it. I wonder if you >would tell the parents to their face how important you think it is to >preserve the information put out by the people who helped cause their >son to be murdered, rather than doing something to help prevent it from >happening again. Ah, the fascists rise to the bait! Freedom of speech is a moral absolute. The words of NAMBLA are as important, and about as morally sound, as the words of Jodi Hoffman. And, IMO, about as likely to cause a murder.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Lizard wrote: > > At 03:11 AM 9/13/00 -0400, Jodi Hoffman wrote: > > I knew there was a reason I printed out NAMBLA's website > >throughout the years. Maybe I should contact this child's parents as > >well as their attorney. Maybe you should do the same. Maybe you really > >are a member of NAMBLA. It certainly sounds like it. I wonder if you > >would tell the parents to their face how important you think it is to > >preserve the information put out by the people who helped cause their > >son to be murdered, rather than doing something to help prevent it from > >happening again. > > Ah, the fascists rise to the bait! > > Freedom of speech is a moral absolute. The words of NAMBLA are as > important, and about as morally sound, as the words of Jodi Hoffman. And, > IMO, about as likely to cause a murder. Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel differently. -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Colin Rafferty wrote: > > Jodi Hoffman writes: > > Declan McCullagh forwards: > > >> Frisoli, the Curley lawyer, has been making very outrageous and > >> false statements about what was on the web site. Because the media > >> has no access to the site, no one can contradict him. ... Printed > >> material from NAMBLA is difficult to find. Members of NAMBLA will > >> speak to the press only under conditions of strict anonymity > >> because they fear for their lives. And the web site is not > >> accessible. > > > I knew there was a reason I printed out NAMBLA's website > > throughout the years. Maybe I should contact this child's parents as > > well as their attorney. > > I think that would be an excellent idea. The best thing for this case > would be to see what was actually on the web site. > > Of course, I would suggest showing it to everyone, and not just the > Curley family lawyers. Because of NAMBLA had nothing to do with the > murder, I'm sure you wouldn't want to see them falsely found liable. > > > I wonder if you would tell the parents to their face how important > > you think it is to preserve the information put out by the people > > who helped cause their son to be murdered, rather than doing > > something to help prevent it from happening again. > > So your printouts of the NAMBLA web site show where they encourage > people to rape and/or murder children? > > Do you have any quotes? > > > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy > > Always a good quote. So what is the truth about what was on the > NAMBLA web site? Yell it from the rooftops. > > -- > Colin "Yell it from the rooftops." Colin, you devil, you read the Bible? -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 10:56 AM 9/13/00 -0400, Jodi Hoffman wrote: > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and >murderers. Nope, only to the support of those who advocate it, just like I support your right to free speech. I daresay you're much more dangerous to children than any NAMBLA member could ever be. All they want is a childs body. You want to destroy their soul. >Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First >Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel >differently. I support the right of people to post recipes for stir-fried cat on their web pages. It's disgusting, but it's their right. If they tried ACTING on such impulses, of course, they'd discover why we have a SECOND amendment...
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they advocate violence to children) Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. jay - Original Message - From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and > murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First > Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel > differently.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
You miss the point... I have never read their site, I do not intend to. That is immaterial. I am addressing the other issue, that your crowd too is protected by free speech rights even though there are plenty who would like to hold you responsible for crime against gays and abortion providers. jay - Original Message - From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jay Holovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the > > same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > > advocate violence to children) > > > Oh, please. Anal sex with an eight year old child is not violent? > > > > > > Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > > protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > > murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > > > jay > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and > > > murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First > > > Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel > > > differently. > > -- > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy > R.A.M.P.-Restore America's Moral Pride > > Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp > Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America > 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 > TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280 >
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Jay Holovacs wrote: > > You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the > same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > advocate violence to children) Oh, please. Anal sex with an eight year old child is not violent? > > Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > jay > > - Original Message - > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and > > murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First > > Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel > > differently. -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 11:27 AM -0400 9/13/00, Jay Holovacs wrote:
>You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the
>same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they
>advocate violence to children)
>
>Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech
>protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is
>murdered or an abortion clinic bombed.
>
Actually, the tide of civil lawsuits against all sorts of
organizations is rising. Aryan Nations was just ordered to pay some
multimillion dollar fee because some woman was harassed or attacked
or had her feelings hurt--not sure which--by some people she claimed
were connected to or influenced by AN.
I watched noted spinster Alan Dershowitz expostulating that lawsuits
to bankrupt Aryan Nation are _good_, becuase AN espouses hate, but
that lawsuits against NAMBLA are _bad_, for some reason I didn't
stick around long enough to hear.
This issue of lawsuits about speech is a terribly important one. It
tends to get lost in the debate when people say "But the _government_
is not suppressing speech!"
Actually, it _is_. By court decisions, by even letting such lawsuits
go forward, it is supporting such suppressions of speech. "SLAPP"
suits are another example.
("Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation," as when a lumber
company slaps a civil lawsuit on a critic of their logging
operations. Even the _filing_ of a lawsuit essentially forces the
target to hire his own $400 an hour lawyers. (Yeah, I know what
Duncan would say: "Throw the subpoena away. Make yourself
judgement-proof. Ignore the matter." Well, nice theory, hard in
practice for anyone with real assets.)_
We as a culture have swung far away from "sticks and stones may break
my bones but names will never hurt me" toward a culture of lawsuits.
And the lawyer lobby supports and embraces this culture, getting laws
passed making it easier every day to suppress speech.
Crypto helps in various ways, of course. Both Aryan Nations and
NAMBLA will be helped, along with Friends of the Earth and Pacific
Lumber.
Censorious bitches like Jodi Hoffman will splutter.
--Tim May
--
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
> At 11:27 AM -0400 9/13/00, Jay Holovacs wrote: > >You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the > >same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > >advocate violence to children) > > > >Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > >protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > >murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > > > Actually, the tide of civil lawsuits against all sorts of > organizations is rising. Aryan Nations was just ordered to pay some > multimillion dollar fee because some woman was harassed or attacked > or had her feelings hurt--not sure which--by some people she claimed > were connected to or influenced by AN. Actually, she got shot at and roughed up by AN members. (AN has a habit of disavowing relations with members once they get in trouble with The Elders of Zion.)
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
> [A veteran free speech activist in Cambridge, Mass. sent me this. Any > offers of mirroring should go to the list, where I assume they'll be duly > forwarded. I wonder how long the HTML files in question here would last on > a Geocities/etc account. --Declan] > Did Curley's lawyers at least have the smarts to grab a snapshot of the site before getting it taken down?
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
> I knew there was a reason I printed out NAMBLA's website > throughout the years. Maybe I should contact this child's parents as > well as their attorney. Maybe you should do the same. Maybe you really You definitely should. A quick email from anybody on this list and your printouts will be subpoenaed. (By which side, I know not.) > are a member of NAMBLA. It certainly sounds like it. I wonder if you Maybe you're an alien from space. > would tell the parents to their face how important you think it is to > preserve the information put out by the people who helped cause their > son to be murdered, rather than doing something to help prevent it from > happening again.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
At 4:57 PM -0400 9/13/00, Omri Schwarz wrote: > > At 11:27 AM -0400 9/13/00, Jay Holovacs wrote: >> >You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT the >> >same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they >> >advocate violence to children) >> > >> >Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech >> >protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is >> >murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. >> > >> >> Actually, the tide of civil lawsuits against all sorts of >> organizations is rising. Aryan Nations was just ordered to pay some >> multimillion dollar fee because some woman was harassed or attacked >> or had her feelings hurt--not sure which--by some people she claimed >> were connected to or influenced by AN. > > >Actually, she got shot at and roughed up >by AN members. (AN has a habit of disavowing relations >with members once they get in trouble with The Elders of Zion.) This woman and her daughter just "happened" to be far from home, out near the AN compound, and their car, they claim, just "happened" to backfire. I doubt the backfiring theory very much...none of my cars has _ever_ backfired, and I've been driving since 1968. I would bet a lot of money that this woman, a leftie simp-wimp, took a shot at the compound she hated so much. A pseudonymous person sent me a note on this woman and her plans, including this excerpt, which I agree with: "The fact the woman, supposedly a random passing stranger, intends to use the money and convert the compound to a 'Peace Center' makes me think the entire thing was a setup. " In any case, if she was roughed up, without provocation, then those who roughed her up are solely to blame. Suing AN was merely an example of "deep pockets" and "joint and several liability" doctrines, motivated by PC sentiments. The Southern Law Poverty Center routinely uses this tactic to silence those it doesn't like. I still say we should sue Operation Push for every asset it has. Hymietown, indeed. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
You are wrong to protect them without knowing what they're about, Jay. Their motto is, "Sex before eight, or it's too late." They are referring to grown men having sex with an under-eight year old little boy. Surely you don't mean to suggest that a website promoting intercourse with a little boy should be protected speech, do you? Jay Holovacs wrote: > > You miss the point... I have never read their site, I do not intend to. > That is immaterial. > > I am addressing the other issue, that your crowd too is protected by free > speech rights even though there are plenty who would like to hold you > responsible for crime against gays and abortion providers. > > jay > > - Original Message - > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Jay Holovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > > > You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT > the > > > same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > > > advocate violence to children) > > > > > > Oh, please. Anal sex with an eight year old child is not violent? > > > > > > > > > > Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > > > protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > > > murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > > > > > jay > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM > > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > > > > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and > > > > murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First > > > > Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel > > > > differently. > > > > -- > > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy > > R.A.M.P.-Restore America's Moral Pride > > > > Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp > > Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America > > 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 > > TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280 > > -- "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
People don't seem to understand what free speech is all about. You might be interested in knowing Jodi that Hitlers Germany had one of the most progressive free speech policies in the world. You could say whatever you wanted to say, provided it was authorized by the state. I don't support free speech because it's the fashionable thing to do. Free speech is the basic right of all. The content of that right is irrelevant. Now - you spending alot of time on the sex angle here. I don't think you understand what freedom of speech means. If I were to tell you that I had personal knowledge of the rape by canadian politicians and senior bureacrats of young boys from fort lauderdale during the 60, 70, 80's - and that these rapes and further investigation of those who abuse these children is being intentionally suppressed by senior police officers and law officers in Canada - how would you react to this? Now here's the kicker. I have all of that knowledge and I am prevented by court order from exposing any of these people. You can thank Judge William Browne of the Ontario Court for that. It's people like you who are willing to deny others rights who end up taking away my rights to expose these political child molesters. Would you like to follow up with the investigating officer in fort lauderdale and verify this? You talk a big talk Jodi - now do you have the passion to walk the walk and help these former kids. Just let me know and I will phone someone who will forward you a URL. We don't want to break our court order you understand ;-) regards Joe Baptista http://www.dot.god/ dot.GOD Hostmaster On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Jodi Hoffman wrote: > You are wrong to protect them without knowing what they're about, Jay. > Their motto is, "Sex before eight, or it's too late." They are > referring to grown men having sex with an under-eight year old little > boy. Surely you don't mean to suggest that a website promoting > intercourse with a little boy should be protected speech, do you? > > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > You miss the point... I have never read their site, I do not intend to. > > That is immaterial. > > > > I am addressing the other issue, that your crowd too is protected by free > > speech rights even though there are plenty who would like to hold you > > responsible for crime against gays and abortion providers. > > > > jay > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Jay Holovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:45 AM > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > > > > > You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT > > the > > > > same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > > > > advocate violence to children) > > > > > > > > > Oh, please. Anal sex with an eight year old child is not violent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > > > > protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > > > > murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > > > > > > > jay > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM > > > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > > > > > > > Ah, the Lizard slinks to the support of child rapists and > > > > > murderers. Don't sacrifice my child on the altar of the First > > > > > Amendment, Liz. I'm sure if it were your son, you would feel > > > > > differently. > > > > > > -- > > > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > > > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy > > > R.A.M.P.-Restore America's Moral Pride > > > > > > Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp > > > Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America > > > 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 > > > TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280 > > > > > -- > "He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself > the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy > R.A.M.P.-Restore Americas Moral Pride > > Jodi Hoffman R.A.M.P. http://www.gocin.com/ramp > Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America > 2805 E. OAKLAND PARK BLVD., SUITE 122 FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA 33306 > TELEPHONE (954) 567-0698 TeleFax (954) 630-2280 >
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
> > >Actually, she got shot at and roughed up > > >by AN members. (AN has a habit of disavowing relations > > >with members once they get in trouble with The Elders of Zion.) > > > > This woman and her daughter just "happened" to be far from home, out > > near the AN compound, and their car, they claim, just "happened" to > > backfire. > > > I doubt the backfiring theory very much...none of my cars has _ever_ > > backfired, and I've been driving since 1968. I would bet a lot of > > money that this woman, a leftie simp-wimp, took a shot at the > > compound she hated so much. > > Coeur D'Alene has a lot of tourism going on, > and you must not get out much. > I hear a backfire at least once a week in Boston. Most cars don't backfire, essentially it is a sign that the engine is seriously out of tune. Tim is guilty of statistics abuse, because it never happens to Tim he assumes it can never happen to anyone who is passing the local Nazi encampment. What Tim does not explain is why sending a truck full of thugs off to beat up someone carrying a loaded, recently fired weapon is a reasonable or even a sensible response. > > In any case, if she was roughed up, without provocation, then those > > who roughed her up are solely to blame. Suing AN was merely an > > example of "deep pockets" and "joint and several liability" > > doctrines, motivated by PC sentiments. The Southern Law Poverty > > Center routinely uses this tactic to silence those it doesn't like. The problem with the KKK, AN and other groups of thugs isn't what they say, it is what they do - beat people up. As for being PC, can anyone explain how an organization could be less tollerant of opposing views than the AN? Phill
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
Phill Hallam-Baker writes: >The problem with the KKK, AN and other groups of thugs isn't what they say, >it is what they do - beat people up. > >As for being PC, can anyone explain how an organization could >be less tollerant of opposing views than the AN? Perhaps not less tolerant, but certainly more dangerous: by having government as its enforcer. This is why folks are disturbed by the lawsuits against NAMBLA and the like. Not that most of us have any use for them or their philosophy, but that the folks suing them are in effect using the power of government to "beat them up". - GH _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
If you're serious, send it. We own a law firm. Furthermore, a lot of the cases we handle are pro bono, especially when children are involved. We would help in any way we can. What you say doesn't surprise me. !Dr. Joe Baptista wrote: > > People don't seem to understand what free speech is all about. You might > be interested in knowing Jodi that Hitlers Germany had one of the most > progressive free speech policies in the world. You could say whatever you > wanted to say, provided it was authorized by the state. > > I don't support free speech because it's the fashionable thing to > do. Free speech is the basic right of all. The content of that right is > irrelevant. > > Now - you spending alot of time on the sex angle here. I don't think you > understand what freedom of speech means. If I were to tell you that I had > personal knowledge of the rape by canadian politicians and senior > bureacrats of young boys from fort lauderdale during the 60, 70, 80's - > and that these rapes and further investigation of those who abuse these > children is being intentionally suppressed by senior police officers and > law officers in Canada - how would you react to this? > > Now here's the kicker. I have all of that knowledge and I am prevented by > court order from exposing any of these people. You can thank Judge > William Browne of the Ontario Court for that. > > It's people like you who are willing to deny others rights who end up > taking away my rights to expose these political child molesters. > > Would you like to follow up with the investigating officer in fort > lauderdale and verify this? You talk a big talk Jodi - now do you have > the passion to walk the walk and help these former kids. Just let me know > and I will phone someone who will forward you a URL. We don't want to > break our court order you understand ;-) > > regards > Joe Baptista > > http://www.dot.god/ > dot.GOD Hostmaster > > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Jodi Hoffman wrote: > > > You are wrong to protect them without knowing what they're about, Jay. > > Their motto is, "Sex before eight, or it's too late." They are > > referring to grown men having sex with an under-eight year old little > > boy. Surely you don't mean to suggest that a website promoting > > intercourse with a little boy should be protected speech, do you? > > > > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > > > You miss the point... I have never read their site, I do not intend to. > > > That is immaterial. > > > > > > I am addressing the other issue, that your crowd too is protected by free > > > speech rights even though there are plenty who would like to hold you > > > responsible for crime against gays and abortion providers. > > > > > > jay > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: Jay Holovacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 11:45 AM > > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial? > > > > > > > Jay Holovacs wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You really don't seem to get it, defending the right to speech is NOT > > > the > > > > > same as defending the content (though I understand that nowhere do they > > > > > advocate violence to children) > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, please. Anal sex with an eight year old child is not violent? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember, Jodi, the *same* law that should be protecting their speech > > > > > protects you and your allies from being prosecuted each time a gay is > > > > > murdered or an abortion clinic bombed. > > > > > > > > > > jay > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: Jodi Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: Lizard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Cc: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:56 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial?
