date:20170517

So you're a doomsday prepper and you intend to throw a few dollars at
a multi TiB "restart civilization" digital book library with a few
million books, a few laptops and some solar cells to power them.

How best to hierarchically organise the group/ community doomsday
digital book library?

Say 5 million books, each in its own directory (for any cover art,
PDF and or text versions of the book, perhaps audio, code, etc).

Debian has ~40K packages, and divides these into {a..z}* and
lib{a..z}*, for roughly 60 "top level" directories. Each package has
its subdirectory in one of these. The largest directories are at
about 2K to 3K entries (subdirectories).

However, when prepping for a few million books, we have around 1000
times as many "packages"/books to store, which could mean e.g.
50,000 or more in the popular s directory for example - probably a
little more than is sane.

"Formal" library software (e.g. Evergreen) may be the answer for repo
wide searchability of meta data, but when others share interest, they
may only be able to store, and or may be only particularly interested
in a sub-category or two such as health and agriculture/gardening, so
it might be best anyway to use a handful of top level "general
categories" to reduce our maximums down from 50K books per dir, to 10
fold fewer at least.

Has anyone done anything like this, and if so, how did you solve it?

(Medium term, the problem begs for a git-like addressed, git-like P2P
addressable/verifiable "content management" solution; e.g. if I have
a random collection of say 10K books, it would be nice to be able to
say something like:
   git library init

   # add my books:
   git add .
   git commit

   git library sort categories
   git library add index1 # create an "indexing" branch
   git commit

   # add some upstream/p2p libraries for indexing/search/federation:
   git library index add upstream:uni.berkely
   git library p2p   add i2p.tunnel:myfriend.SHA
   git library full-index pull myfriend.SHA
   git library math-index pull myfriend.SHA
   git library book:SHA   pull myfriend.SHA
)

Perhaps this has not been really done before?

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

2017-05-17 Thread Ben Tasker

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:

>
>
> "Formal" library software (e.g. Evergreen) may be the answer for repo
> wide searchability of meta data, but when others share interest, they
> may only be able to store, and or may be only particularly interested
> in a sub-category or two such as health and agriculture/gardening, so
> it might be best anyway to use a handful of top level "general
> categories" to reduce our maximums down from 50K books per dir, to 10
> fold fewer at least.
>
>
I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
library does.

Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
subdivide that into health etc)

Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by the
first two chars of the author's name

But it'd get complicated quite quickly (particularly if you don't know the
author's name) so you'd want some sort of
index available to do metadata based searching too. I think that's probably
going to be hard to avoid with a
substantial number of books though.






-- 
Ben Tasker
https://www.bentasker.co.uk

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

2017-05-17 Thread Shawn K. Quinn

On 05/17/2017 03:14 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
> I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
> library does.
> 
> Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
> subdivide that into health etc)
> 
> Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by
> the first two chars of the author's name

Dewey Decimal System, anyone? If it works for current real-world
libraries, why wouldn't it work for something like this?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com



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Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 09:14:41AM +0100, Ben Tasker wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> > "Formal" library software (e.g. Evergreen) may be the answer for repo
> > wide searchability of meta data, but when others share interest, they
> > may only be able to store, and or may be only particularly interested
> > in a sub-category or two such as health and agriculture/gardening, so
> > it might be best anyway to use a handful of top level "general
> > categories" to reduce our maximums down from 50K books per dir, to 10
> > fold fewer at least.
>
> I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a
> physical library does.

Ack.

> Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and
> non-fiction, subdivide that into health etc)

Personally not interested in fiction, but of course some will be, and
"the library" should work for everyone, including those who want to
store all books in all languages :)

> Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further
> by the first two chars of the author's name

Sounds good - many authors write more than one book, and its good to
group by author, even though that will result in some authors with
more than one directory (those who write books existing in more than
1 category).

> But it'd get complicated quite quickly (particularly if you don't
> know the author's name)

And some books don't have an author - especially some of the older
historical books, but I guess they could be grouped under
"author: anonymous".

> so you'd want some sort of index available

Definitely.

> to do metadata based searching too. I think that's probably going
> to be hard to avoid with a substantial number of books though.

A principle is to have each item be self contained, in its own
directory, so different editions/versions and associated assets
(covers, imagery, audio) can all be sanely grouped for that book -
different editions should probably each have their own directory.

Rather than avoid an index, and based on the principle above, each
"content item" will eventually have its own meta data file, and this,
like every other file associated with a "content item" should be
physically associated with the item - i.e., in the item's canonical
directory, and then:
automate the index creation by processing the meta data files,
and supplementing this with information gathered directly from the
filesystem (file sizes, PDF "page count"s, file types (image, text,
PDF etc) and everything else that can be auto gathered) - DRY, don't
repeat yourself, so don't "write" meta data that is in the
filesystem, at the least filename and file size.

YAML or YAML like for meta data files, seems to be the nicest for
humans to read+write, and still very good for automated processing.
I began this for my software repo years ago, but need to rewrite it.

Thanks,

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 03:34:43AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 03:14 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
> > I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
> > library does.
> > 
> > Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
> > subdivide that into health etc)
> > 
> > Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by
> > the first two chars of the author's name
> 
> Dewey Decimal System, anyone? If it works for current real-world
> libraries, why wouldn't it work for something like this?

May be. A directory name based on the dewey number could be a
candidate for "canonical content-item directory", although may or may
not be ideal choice.

Perhaps there's no reason to NOT have a human-readable "canonical
location" - i.e.:
   category/sub-category/author/item/files...
?

This is so that any part of the filesystem can be readily copied, and
be useful and easily searchable in its own right without any
meta-data aggregation/processing...

I'm sure there are many useful types of indexing, e.g. ISBN, author,
title, and any meta data that users could find useful.

Although there might be a lot of "library-specific numbers" like
dewey (is this universal like ISBN, or library specific?), which
could also be useful in a global book indexing system, each is simply
additional meta data.

Meta data should be able to be added to any item at any time -> git
backed item+meta data storage system.

gitfs/git-fs fuse type system could also be more efficient - a --bare
repository is just fine, if it can also be browsed/copied/etc like a
normal filesystem, and with TiB of books, users don't want to
duplicate everything just so they can access their (git) library via
the filesystem.

Besides fiction/non-fiction top level category, we could also have
floss/public domain vs proprietary/still in copyright.

This would provide for separation of content which may well need to
be handled in different ways - freely distributable without obvious
legal threat possibilities, vs. "non-libre, but stored as part of my
doomsday prepping library on the principle that such usage is fair
use" for example :)

The only other "primary" category I can think of is language - i.e.
which language is a book written in (and of course some dictionaries
and "Learn Russian" type books are written in more than one language,
althought they presumably always target a "primary" language).

So this would give us a grand "canonical content indexing" hierarchy
of:

$LANG/
   floss/
  fiction/
 $CATEGORY/
$SUB-CATEGORY/
   $AUTHOR/
  $BOOK/
 ...
  non-fiction/
 $CATEGORY/
$SUB-CATEGORY/
   $AUTHOR/
  $BOOK/
 ...

   proprietary/
  fiction/
 $CATEGORY/
$SUB-CATEGORY/
   $AUTHOR/
  $BOOK/
 ...
  non-fiction/
 $CATEGORY/
$SUB-CATEGORY/
   $AUTHOR/
  $BOOK/
 ...

as top level directories.

Discussed this just now with a friend and realised that humans
genuinely will have interests such as "yeah, give me 500GiB of
programming books, what the heck, but nah, not interested in all the
natural sciences" vs "hey, math, physics, chem, yes please, my
doomsday prepper library absolutely must have them all, along with
engineering and survival books".

So the most end-user friendly "canonical directory hierarchy"
probably requires a lot of sub-categories for non-fiction at least.

And doing so means something better than 20,000 (or more) directories
(authors in the above scheme) in one category.

Also with the aim of distributing the work load by making the job:
   -  easy to comprehend
   -  easy to do
   -  easy to share

we will create the ultimate distributed book/useful-content library
index/meta data store, very naturally and easily, just like wikipedia
started small and to quite some derision in certain quarters.

With multi-TiB HDDs, we are close to the time when one person can
indeed store the world's "relevant" (by his personal definition)
knowledge.

A little research on the wiki shows there are in fact impressively
many fields of science and academia which can provide useful
subdivisions for "all useful books", see e.g.:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_science
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_academic_disciplines

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_science
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_branches_of_science
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sciences

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_sciences
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_natural_science
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science

Finally, looking at:
   https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/SubprojectSupport

and thinking about things, it seems that git on a per-item basis, and
possibly git-subproject for a category or sub-cate

Re: Fwd: [tor-talk] Stipends available for the Privacy Enhancing Technologies Symposium

2017-05-17 Thread Vasily Kolobkov

[2017-05-17 01:33] grarpamp 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Roger Dingledine 
> Date: Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:57 AM
> Subject: [tor-talk] Stipends available for the Privacy Enhancing
> Technologies Symposium
> To: tor-t...@lists.torproject.org
> 
> 
> Hi tor-talk!
> 
> The PETS conference is where all of the academic privacy / anonymity
> experts gather each year:
> https://petsymposium.org/
>
> ...
>
> The list of accepted papers is up (and of course it is open access):
> https://petsymposium.org/2017/paperlist.php

Hmmm, and why is that only one particular article off of issue #3
misses a link to the paper? Guess nobody likes city-wide imsi-catcher
detection for some reason, huh. Not much more do search engines
seems to know about it.

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?



On 05/17/2017 01:34 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 03:14 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
>> I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
>> library does.
>>
>> Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
>> subdivide that into health etc)
>>
>> Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by
>> the first two chars of the author's name
> Dewey Decimal System, anyone? If it works for current real-world
> libraries, why wouldn't it work for something like this?
>


My mutha wuz a Noow yorc publik skool liberian. Do-e Desmal wurks, then
therz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification

Either sistem is hella ez 2 digitiz.

Rr

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 07:05:53AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/17/2017 01:34 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> > On 05/17/2017 03:14 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
> >> I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
> >> library does.
> >>
> >> Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
> >> subdivide that into health etc)
> >>
> >> Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by
> >> the first two chars of the author's name
> > Dewey Decimal System, anyone? If it works for current real-world
> > libraries, why wouldn't it work for something like this?
> >
> 
> 
> My mutha wuz a Noow yorc publik skool liberian. Do-e Desmal wurks, then
> therz
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification

Thanks - I'll check it out.

It starts:

 https://github.com/zenaan/large-digital-library

 git://github.com/zenaan/large-digital-library.git

Re: how to best organise a large community "important" books library?

2017-05-17 Thread No

You only need one book!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18114087-the-knowledge

Not true, but still a good read.


On 05/17/2017 04:29 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 07:05:53AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>>
>> On 05/17/2017 01:34 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>>> On 05/17/2017 03:14 AM, Ben Tasker wrote:
 I guess your best bet would probably be to approach it like a physical
 library does.

 Divide by broad category/genre (so separate fiction and non-fiction,
 subdivide that into health etc)

 Then divide further by Author's name, perhaps dividing that further by
 the first two chars of the author's name
>>> Dewey Decimal System, anyone? If it works for current real-world
>>> libraries, why wouldn't it work for something like this?
>>>
>>
>> My mutha wuz a Noow yorc publik skool liberian. Do-e Desmal wurks, then
>> therz
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification
> Thanks - I'll check it out.
>
> It starts:
>
>  https://github.com/zenaan/large-digital-library
>
>  git://github.com/zenaan/large-digital-library.git
>
>

"All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

Kinda off-topic, but interesting.

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study

http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry

Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
Financial Post. From the report:
Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.

--
John

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[OT] [Human Rights] International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia

International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia

http://dayagainsthomophobia.org

#LoveIsLove  <3

* Day Bonus:  -  Chelsea is Free, yay!!!  :D  Woohoo!!!  \o/   \o/   \o/

https://twitter.com/xychelsea/status/864840675220754436

---
"Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or
your curiosity.  It's your place in the world; it's your life.  Go on
and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live."  -
 Mae Jemison

Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

Forwarding with tenderness and lots of kisses from Brazil !  <3

Ceci

#  May 17, International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and
Biphobia - http://dayagainsthomophobia.org  #LoveIsLove  <3
---
"Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or
your curiosity.  It's your place in the world; it's your life.  Go on
and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live."  -
 Mae Jemison


-- Forwarded message --
From:  
Date: Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:17 PM
Subject: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it
happening and (how) is it going to end?
To: cecilia.tan...@gmail.com


Dear members ,

As a result of last cyber attack that hit many countries worldwide,
our partners from DiploFoundation and the Geneva Internet Platform
have organised an open webinar for the community to provide an
analysis of the main technological, geopolitical, legal, and economic
aspects of the ransomware. Experts from different fields will discuss
why ransomware has become a major issue: Can such attacks be prevented
by technological measures alone? Is there a need for a legal response,
such as Microsoft’s proposal for the Digital Geneva Convention? Is
raising more awareness among users the ultimate solution?

The webinar will discuss whether it is possible to put a stop to
malicious software, or whether they should be considered the price we
have to pay for the many advantages of the Internet. Choices on policy
will have to be made sooner rather than later. The aim of the
discussion is to explore and help make informed policy choices.

How to participate?

Date: Tomorrow - Thursday, 18th May, at 11:00 UTC (13:00 CEST).

The virtual event is open for everyone , just register under this link
: https://www.diplomacy.edu/registrations/wannacry-webinar

Register to book your seat. The webinar link will be e-mailed to
registrants one hour before the start.

Regards ,
--
Nancy Quirós
Development Manager LAC Chapters
Email: qui...@isoc.org
Skype: nancy_quiros
Web: www.isoc.org

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?

Warrant Canary creator

On May 17, 2017 11:48 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka"  wrote:

Forwarding with tenderness and lots of kisses from Brazil !  <3

Ceci

#  May 17, International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and
Biphobia - http://dayagainsthomophobia.org  #LoveIsLove  <3
---
"Don't let anyone rob you of your imagination, your creativity, or
your curiosity.  It's your place in the world; it's your life.  Go on
and do all you can with it, and make it the life you want to live."  -
 Mae Jemison


-- Forwarded message --
From:  
Date: Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:17 PM
Subject: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it
happening and (how) is it going to end?
To: cecilia.tan...@gmail.com


Dear members ,

As a result of last cyber attack that hit many countries worldwide,
our partners from DiploFoundation and the Geneva Internet Platform
have organised an open webinar for the community to provide an
analysis of the main technological, geopolitical, legal, and economic
aspects of the ransomware. Experts from different fields will discuss
why ransomware has become a major issue: Can such attacks be prevented
by technological measures alone? Is there a need for a legal response,
such as Microsoft’s proposal for the Digital Geneva Convention? Is
raising more awareness among users the ultimate solution?

The webinar will discuss whether it is possible to put a stop to
malicious software, or whether they should be considered the price we
have to pay for the many advantages of the Internet. Choices on policy
will have to be made sooner rather than later. The aim of the
discussion is to explore and help make informed policy choices.

How to participate?

Date: Tomorrow - Thursday, 18th May, at 11:00 UTC (13:00 CEST).

The virtual event is open for everyone , just register under this link
: https://www.diplomacy.edu/registrations/wannacry-webinar

Register to book your seat. The webinar link will be e-mailed to
registrants one hour before the start.

Regards ,
--
Nancy Quirós
Development Manager LAC Chapters
Email: qui...@isoc.org
Skype: nancy_quiros
Web: www.isoc.org

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

Alternatively, bio-engineering will make practical the efficient creation
of liquid fuels from sunlight, water and CO2. No carbon footprint. No
massive upgrades to utility grids, recharge vs. refueling time tradeoffs or
distribution changes.

Warrant Canary creator

On May 17, 2017 11:25 AM, "John Newman"  wrote:

> Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
>
> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-
> fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
>
> http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/
> fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-
> death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-
> shocking-the-industry
>
> Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
> petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
> in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
> the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> Financial Post. From the report:
> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
> cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
> fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
> cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
> on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
> anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
> combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
> drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
> This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
> stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
> plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
> twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
> for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
> time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
> of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
> Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>
> --
> John
>

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>
> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?

Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

2017-05-17 Thread Mirimir

On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  wrote:
>>
>> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
>> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
> 
> Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.

You _hope so_?

Seriously?

That's a horrible idea.

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 08:27:12AM -1100, Mirimir wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
> >> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
> > 
> > Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.
> 
> You _hope so_?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> That's a horrible idea.
> 

Maybe she had a typo? Anyway..

I think whoever blasted this hack off may never touch their money.
Apparently all the infections come with instructions for payment
to be made to one of only three static wallets.. and everybody has
their eyes on the block chain :P  

They've only brought in like $60k or something from 200k infections.
Horrible return on infection ratio... 

-- 
John 

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Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:15:17PM -0700, Steven Schear wrote:
> Alternatively, bio-engineering will make practical the efficient creation
> of liquid fuels from sunlight, water and CO2. No carbon footprint. No
> massive upgrades to utility grids, recharge vs. refueling time tradeoffs or
> distribution changes.

That would be cool!  Either way, I think 8 years might be a little
"optimistic", but it does seem we are in for some massive changes, at
the very least with self-driving vehicles, not even taking EV into
account..


> 
> Warrant Canary creator
> 
> On May 17, 2017 11:25 AM, "John Newman"  wrote:
> 
> > Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
> >
> > https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-
> > fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
> >
> > http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/
> > fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-
> > death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-
> > shocking-the-industry
> >
> > Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
> > petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
> > in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> > transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> > electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
> > the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> > Financial Post. From the report:
> > Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> > switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
> > cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
> > fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
> > cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
> > on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
> > anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
> > combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
> > drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
> > This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
> > stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
> > plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
> > twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
> > for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
> > time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
> > of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> > be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
> > Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
> >
> > --
> > John
> >

-- 
John 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
>>> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
>>
>> Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.
>
> You _hope so_?
>
> Seriously?
>
> That's a horrible idea.

I said " I hope so" because it's important discussing these subjects
too.  The privacy is being attacked in the whole world, unfortunately.
:(

Hmm...  Did I understand wrongly Steven's question, Mirimir?  Remember
my English is pretty limited yet and I don't want to attack the
privacy, only to discuss it.  :P

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

2017-05-17 Thread Mirimir

On 05/17/2017 08:43 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>> On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  
>>> wrote:

 Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
 fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
>>>
>>> Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.
>>
>> You _hope so_?
>>
>> Seriously?
>>
>> That's a horrible idea.
> 
> I said " I hope so" because it's important discussing these subjects
> too.  The privacy is being attacked in the whole world, unfortunately.
> :(

I suppose that it's good to discuss the issue.

Still, saying "ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
fungibility" is an extremely offensive thing to say on this list. What
we need is to discuss how to _protect_ cryptocurrency privacy and
fungibility.

> Hmm...  Did I understand wrongly Steven's question, Mirimir?  Remember
> my English is pretty limited yet and I don't want to attack the
> privacy, only to discuss it.  :P

Sorry, Cecilia. I'm just touchy about this stuff.

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

With the exception of Jim Bell, I consider myself one of the more
significant cryptoanarchists.  I brought this up as there many statists in
the blockchain community and they largely seek to hobble bitcoin (and other
public blockchain currencies) to advantage their investments or achieve
political ends.

Warrant Canary creator

On May 17, 2017 1:03 PM, "Mirimir"  wrote:

> On 05/17/2017 08:43 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> >> On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear 
> wrote:
> 
>  Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
>  fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope
> so.
> >>
> >> You _hope so_?
> >>
> >> Seriously?
> >>
> >> That's a horrible idea.
> >
> > I said " I hope so" because it's important discussing these subjects
> > too.  The privacy is being attacked in the whole world, unfortunately.
> > :(
>
> I suppose that it's good to discuss the issue.
>
> Still, saying "ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
> fungibility" is an extremely offensive thing to say on this list. What
> we need is to discuss how to _protect_ cryptocurrency privacy and
> fungibility.
>
> > Hmm...  Did I understand wrongly Steven's question, Mirimir?  Remember
> > my English is pretty limited yet and I don't want to attack the
> > privacy, only to discuss it.  :P
>
> Sorry, Cecilia. I'm just touchy about this stuff.
>

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 08:43 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>> On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
 On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear  
 wrote:
>
> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?

 Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope so.
>>>
>>> You _hope so_?
>>>
>>> Seriously?
>>>
>>> That's a horrible idea.
>>
>> I said " I hope so" because it's important discussing these subjects
>> too.  The privacy is being attacked in the whole world, unfortunately.
>> :(
>
> I suppose that it's good to discuss the issue.
>
> Still, saying "ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
> fungibility" is an extremely offensive thing to say on this list. What
> we need is to discuss how to _protect_ cryptocurrency privacy and
> fungibility.

Aaaah, I understand his question now!  Sorry, my love, I misunderstood
Steven's comment about privacy questions.  I do *NOT* support "ending
cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy & fungibility", neither ISOC
does.  ISOC defends and protects these values.  I thought he wanted to
discuss the ending of them in several countries.  Sorry again!  :P

>> Hmm...  Did I understand wrongly Steven's question, Mirimir?  Remember
>> my English is pretty limited yet and I don't want to attack the
>> privacy, only to discuss it.  :P
>
> Sorry, Cecilia. I'm just touchy about this stuff.

Pardon, Mirimir, my vocabulary is limited, my English is a disaster
and I need to sleep at least one night.  Not a good phase, my love.
Sorry.

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

2017-05-17 Thread juan

On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400
John Newman  wrote:


> 
> Stanford University economist

so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of
american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is
making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering? 

wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)

Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced
that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'

"petrol carsno longer  sold anywhere in the world"

and 

"Cities will ban human drivers" 

Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave! 


So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't
take it personally. 



> Tony Seba forecasts in his new report
> that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold
> anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise
> of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> Financial Post. From the report:
> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten
> times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero
> marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.
> Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The
> rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find
> a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts
> that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear
> by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how
> dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs,
> and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing
> vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have
> to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral"
> for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big
> companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The
> long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of
> shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia,
> Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>

Re: Fwd: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

2017-05-17 Thread Mirimir

On 05/17/2017 09:19 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
> With the exception of Jim Bell, I consider myself one of the more
> significant cryptoanarchists.  I brought this up as there many statists in
> the blockchain community and they largely seek to hobble bitcoin (and other
> public blockchain currencies) to advantage their investments or achieve
> political ends.

OK, sorry. But adding /s to your question would have made it clearer.

> Warrant Canary creator
> 
> On May 17, 2017 1:03 PM, "Mirimir"  wrote:
> 
>> On 05/17/2017 08:43 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
 On 05/17/2017 08:15 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote:
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Steven Schear 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Any bets on whether ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
>> fungibility will be near the top of the discussions?
>
> Sorry, Steven, I don't know, but already asked them.  Sincerely hope
>> so.

 You _hope so_?

 Seriously?

 That's a horrible idea.
>>>
>>> I said " I hope so" because it's important discussing these subjects
>>> too.  The privacy is being attacked in the whole world, unfortunately.
>>> :(
>>
>> I suppose that it's good to discuss the issue.
>>
>> Still, saying "ending cryptocurrency (esp. bitcoin) privacy &
>> fungibility" is an extremely offensive thing to say on this list. What
>> we need is to discuss how to _protect_ cryptocurrency privacy and
>> fungibility.
>>
>>> Hmm...  Did I understand wrongly Steven's question, Mirimir?  Remember
>>> my English is pretty limited yet and I don't want to attack the
>>> privacy, only to discuss it.  :P
>>
>> Sorry, Cecilia. I'm just touchy about this stuff.
>>
>

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

2017-05-17 Thread oshwm

On 17 May 2017 21:50:36 BST, juan  wrote:
>On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400
>John Newman  wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> Stanford University economist
>
>   so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of
>   american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is
>   making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering? 
>
>   wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
>
>   Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced
>   that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
>
>   "petrol carsno longer  sold anywhere in the world"
>
>   and 
>
>   "Cities will ban human drivers" 
>
>   Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave! 
>
>
>   So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't
>   take it personally. 
>
>   
>
>> Tony Seba forecasts in his new report
>> that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold
>> anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
>> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
>> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise
>> of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
>> Financial Post. From the report:
>> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
>> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten
>> times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero
>> marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.
>> Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The
>> rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find
>> a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts
>> that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear
>> by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how
>> dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs,
>> and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing
>> vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have
>> to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral"
>> for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big
>> companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The
>> long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of
>> shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
>> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia,
>> Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>> 

Personally I could believe that, in the UK at least, given 5-10 years that EVs 
will be sold in significant numbers and occupying the place in car sales that 
diesels currently occupy with total sales dominance over all car sales in about 
20 years.
Self-Drivers will grow to share a significant amount of market share in that 20 
year timescale.

Of course, I have no qualifications to back up my guesswork so we'll have to 
wait 20 years to see if my guesswork beats Ivy League economists guesswork lol.

cheers,
oshwm.

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively chip away
at personal liberties.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-01/it-wont-be-jetsons

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:09 PM, oshwm  wrote:

> On 17 May 2017 21:50:36 BST, juan  wrote:
> >On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400
> >John Newman  wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Stanford University economist
> >
> >   so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of
> >   american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is
> >   making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering?
> >
> >   wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
> >
> >   Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced
> >   that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
> >
> >   "petrol carsno longer  sold anywhere in the world"
> >
> >   and
> >
> >   "Cities will ban human drivers"
> >
> >   Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave!
> >
> >
> >   So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't
> >   take it personally.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Tony Seba forecasts in his new report
> >> that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold
> >> anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> >> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> >> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise
> >> of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> >> Financial Post. From the report:
> >> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> >> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten
> >> times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero
> >> marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.
> >> Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The
> >> rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find
> >> a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts
> >> that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear
> >> by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how
> >> dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs,
> >> and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing
> >> vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have
> >> to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral"
> >> for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big
> >> companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The
> >> long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of
> >> shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> >> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia,
> >> Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
> >>
>
> Personally I could believe that, in the UK at least, given 5-10 years that
> EVs will be sold in significant numbers and occupying the place in car
> sales that diesels currently occupy with total sales dominance over all car
> sales in about 20 years.
> Self-Drivers will grow to share a significant amount of market share in
> that 20 year timescale.
>
> Of course, I have no qualifications to back up my guesswork so we'll have
> to wait 20 years to see if my guesswork beats Ivy League economists
> guesswork lol.
>
> cheers,
> oshwm.
>
>

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

2017-05-17 Thread juan

On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:35:53 -0700
Steven Schear  wrote:

> Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively
> chip away at personal liberties.


of course. People would be 'free' to move along whatever route
google 'chooses' for them,

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

2017-05-17 Thread oshwm

On 17 May 2017 22:45:11 BST, juan  wrote:
>On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:35:53 -0700
>Steven Schear  wrote:
>
>> Quite likely self-driving cars will be a red herring to massively
>> chip away at personal liberties.
>
>
>   of course. People would be 'free' to move along whatever route
>   google 'chooses' for them,

More importantly is the easy way for governments to identify those subversive 
types who like to challenge the supremacy of the corporation sponsored state by 
driving their own cars.

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."



> On May 17, 2017, at 4:50 PM, juan  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 17 May 2017 14:25:10 -0400
> John Newman  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Stanford University economist
> 
>so an 'economist' (LMAO) from the 'intellectual' core of
>american 'progressive' fascism ('ivy league' universities) is
>making a completely laughable prediction about...engineering? 
> 
>wow, stanford 'economists' seem almost as omniscient as jesus =)
> 
>Oh, and like a good progressive american he's fully convinced
>that the whole world will be subjected to his 'utopia'
> 
>"petrol carsno longer  sold anywhere in the world"
> 
>and 
> 
>"Cities will ban human drivers" 
> 
>Yeah! Land of the free and home of the brave! 
> 
> 
>So what is this apart from crass propaganda? Sorry John, don't
>take it personally. 
> 
>


lol  - i never do ;)


> 
>> Tony Seba forecasts in his new report
>> that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold
>> anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
>> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
>> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise
>> of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
>> Financial Post. From the report:
>> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
>> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten
>> times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero
>> marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.
>> Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The
>> rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find
>> a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts
>> that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear
>> by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how
>> dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs,
>> and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing
>> vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have
>> to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral"
>> for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big
>> companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The
>> long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of
>> shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
>> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia,
>> Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>> 
>

Re: [Webinar] Decrypting the WannaCry ransomware: Why is it happening and (how) is it going to end?

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Nancy Quiros  wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
> The webinar tends to make an analysis of the main technological, 
> geopolitical, legal, and economic
> aspects of the ransomware. Experts from different fields will discuss
> why ransomware has become a major issue: Can such attacks be prevented
> by technological measures alone? Is there a need for a legal response,
> such as Microsoft’s proposal for the Digital Geneva Convention? Is
> raising more awareness among users the ultimate solution?
>
> The webinar will discuss whether it is possible to put a stop to
> malicious software, or whether they should be considered the price we
> have to pay for the many advantages of the Internet. Choices on policy
> will have to be made sooner rather than later. The aim of the
> discussion is to explore and help make informed policy choices.
>
> -
> Nancy Quiros
> Development Manager LAC Chapters

Thank you for the clarification, Nancy!  Very much appreciated!  <3

Ceci  :)

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."


On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
> Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
>
> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
>
> http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry
>
> Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
> petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
> in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
> the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> Financial Post. From the report:
> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
> cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
> fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
> cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
> on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
> anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
> combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
> drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
> This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
> stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
> plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
> twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
> for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
> time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
> of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
> Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>

In eight years?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure)

No.

Not gonna happen.

THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just
the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way
it is and they own the police, and the army and your government...
Literally.

http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page;
Northwestern/Princeton)

WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put
the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)

But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon,
what are people going to drive?

Electric cars.

Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as
gasoline in cars.

How are they going to get the electricity?

Coal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html

If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to
yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for
rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children
should kill you while you sleep.


> ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle
> for space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles
> will soon be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax
> incentives, the share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the
> Netherlands than in nearly any other country in the world.
>
> But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for
> its windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three
> new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam
> harbor, are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’
> electric-car boom.
>
> As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat
> climate change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose
> range and convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has
> come a surging demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can
> consume as much electricity in a single charge as the average
> refrigerator does in a month and a half.
>
> The global shift to electric cars has a clear climate benefit in
> regions that get most of their power from clean sources, such as
> California or Norway.
>

And do note. California and Norway can only produce so much so-called
'clean energy' in any near-term future and the surge of demand will be
met with electricity produced where you never have to see it, like "Four
Corners" Arizona, but it still destroys the earth.

Rr

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

If you want to see what many large cities will look like once driverless
cars become available to the upper 10% consider how traffic is often jammed
in Mumbai around popular entertainment and shopping areas as massive
numbers of cars of the wealthy continuously circle, driven by low-paid
chauffeurs. Why wait for your car to pick you up from a possibly distant
lot when it can be there much sooner from circling school of driverless
cars?

Warrant Canary creator

On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer"  wrote:

>
> On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
>
> Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
> http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry
>
> Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
> petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
> in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
> the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
> Financial Post. From the report:
> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
> cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
> fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
> cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
> on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
> anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
> combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
> drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
> This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
> stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
> plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
> twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
> for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
> time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
> of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
> Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>
>
>
> In eight years?
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains composure)
>
> No.
>
> Not gonna happen.
>
> THere's massive capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just
> the way it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way it
> is and they own the police, and the army and your government... Literally.
>
> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page;
> Northwestern/Princeton)
>
> WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid to tell them to put
> the main branch of the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
>
> But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon,
> what are people going to drive?
>
> Electric cars.
>
> Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as
> gasoline in cars.
>
> How are they going to get the electricity?
>
> Coal.
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-
> appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-
> the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-
> 318f8e87a2fc_story.html
> If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to
> yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for rationalization
> and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should kill you while
> you sleep.
>
>
> ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for
> space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon
> be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the
> share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in
> nearly any other country in the world.
>
> But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its
> windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three new
> coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, are
> supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.
>
> As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate
> change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and
> convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging
> demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much
> electricity in a sing

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."


On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):

>
> On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer"  > wrote:
>
>
> On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
>> Kinda off-topic, but interesting.
>>
>> 
>> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study
>> 
>> 
>>
>> 
>> http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
>> petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
>> in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
>> transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
>> electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
>> the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
>> Financial Post. From the report:
>> Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
>> switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
>> cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
>> fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
>> cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
>> on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
>> anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
>> combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
>> drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
>> This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
>> stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
>> plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
>> twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
>> for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
>> time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
>> of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
>> be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
>> Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.
>>
> In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE
> (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital
> and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and
> thye people who profit from it like it just the way it is and they
> own the police, and the army and your government... Literally.
> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694
>  (Gilens and
> Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same
> consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of the
> public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
>
> But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near
> horizon, what are people going to drive?
>
> Electric cars.
>
> Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as
> gasoline in cars.
>
> How are they going to get the electricity?
>
> Coal.
>
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/
> 
> 
>
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html
> 
> 
>
>
> If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie
> to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for
> rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children
> should kill you while you sleep.
>>
>> ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars
>> jostle for space at charging stations. The oldest
>> exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon be banned from the city
>> center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the share of electric
>> vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in nearly any
>> other country in the world.
>>
>> But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

> On May 17, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
> 
>> 
>>> On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer"  wrote:
>>> 
 On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
 Kinda off-topic, but interesting.

 https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study

 http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry

 Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that
 petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
 in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
 transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
 electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
 the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
 Financial Post. From the report:
 Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
 switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times
 cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of
 fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
 cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles
 on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
 anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
 combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human
 drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel.
 This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
 stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
 plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
 twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
 for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in
 time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms
 of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
 be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
 Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.

>>> In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE (regains 
>>> composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive capital and infrastructure 
>>> tied up in the shitstem just the way it is, and thye people who profit from 
>>> it like it just the way it is and they own the police, and the army and 
>>> your government... Literally. 
>>> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694 (Gilens and Page; 
>>> Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same consultant my city paid 
>>> to tell them to put the main branch of the public library at the city's bus 
>>> station? (really...)
>>> But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near horizon, 
>>> what are people going to drive?
>>> 
>>> Electric cars.
>>> 
>>> Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil as gasoline 
>>> in cars.
>>> 
>>> How are they going to get the electricity?
>>> 
>>> Coal.
>>> 
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/
>>> 
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html
>>> 
>>> If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie to 
>>> yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for 
>>> rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your children should 
>>> kill you while you sleep.

 ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars jostle for 
 space at charging stations. The oldest exhaust-spewing vehicles will soon 
 be banned from the city center. Thanks to generous tax incentives, the 
 share of electric vehicles has grown faster in the Netherlands than in 
 nearly any other country in the world.

 But behind the green growth is a filthy secret: In a nation famous for its 
 windmills, electricity is coming from a far dirtier source. Three 
 new coal-fired power plants, including two here on the Rotterdam harbor, 
 are supplying much of the power to fuel the Netherlands’ electric-car boom.

 As the world tries to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and combat climate 
 change, policymakers have pinned hopes on electric cars, whose range and 
 convenience are quickly improving. Alongside the boom has come a surging 
 demand for power to charge the vehicles, which can consume as much 
 electricity in a single charge as the average refrigerator does in a month 
 and a half.

 The global shift to ele

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

On 05/17/2017 06:07 PM, John Newman wrote:
>
>
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Razer  > wrote:
>
>>
>> On 05/17/2017 05:08 PM, Steven Schear top-posted (see below):
>>
>>>
>>> On May 17, 2017 4:47 PM, "Razer" >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/17/2017 11:25 AM, John Newman wrote:
 Kinda off-topic, but interesting.

 https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/16/1942252/all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-says-stanford-study

 http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/fossil-fuel-vehicles-will-vanish-in-8-years-in-twin-death-spiral-for-big-oil-and-big-autos-says-study-that-shocking-the-industry

 Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report 
 that
 petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere
 in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the
 transportation market will transition and switch entirely to
 electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of
 the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports
 Financial Post. From the report:
 Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will
 switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten 
 times
 cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost 
 of
 fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will
 cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to 
 vehicles
 on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or
 anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal
 combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban 
 human
 drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a 
 wheel.
 This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass
 stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will
 plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a
 twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications
 for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt 
 in
 time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most 
 forms
 of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will
 be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi
 Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.

>>> In eight years? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA! Gasp! Hack COUGH CHOKE
>>> (regains composure) No. Not gonna happen. THere's massive
>>> capital and infrastructure tied up in the shitstem just the way
>>> it is, and thye people who profit from it like it just the way
>>> it is and they own the police, and the army and your
>>> government... Literally.
>>> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85720026694
>>>  (Gilens and
>>> Page; Northwestern/Princeton) WTF paid for this? The same
>>> consultant my city paid to tell them to put the main branch of
>>> the public library at the city's bus station? (really...)
>>>
>>> But it begs the question; If driving is inevitable on any near
>>> horizon, what are people going to drive?
>>>
>>> Electric cars.
>>>
>>> Indirectly and less efficiently powered than simply burning oil
>>> as gasoline in cars.
>>>
>>> How are they going to get the electricity?
>>>
>>> Coal.
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/world/as-appetite-for-electricity-soars-the-world-keeps-turning-to-coal/1842/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/electric-cars-and-the-coal-that-runs-them/2015/11/23/74869240-734b-11e5-ba14-318f8e87a2fc_story.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want the cush lifestyle consumer crapitalism garners, lie
>>> to yourself as you say, in a prozac induced haze allowing for
>>> rationalization and denial ... "Buh bye planet." And your
>>> children should kill you while you sleep.

 ROTTERDAM — In this traffic-packed Dutch city, electric cars
 jo

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

2017-05-17 Thread juan

On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:18:06 -0700
Razer  wrote:


> Well all those folks LUVs them a musky SpaceX and all that YUGELY
> expensive technogy. "Moon Bases" etc. What say we let them go, and
> while they're up there botnet their comm system terminally so they
> can't get back, 

The plan is needlessly complex. Way better to have them at hand
so that one can point a small rocket at them.


and proceed to attempt to repair the planet we're on.
> I'm sort of attached to it. Rr
> > Enjoy it while you got it ;)

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 6:45 PM, juan  wrote:
>
> of course. People would be 'free' to move along whatever route
> google 'chooses' for them,

A bit old, but still sounds funny, hihi...  ;)

#  In My Driveless Car - Power Salad

https://youtu.be/vfRStLsskZc

Everybody look at me, I'm in a car but I'm not drivin'
The car is driving by itself, Yes it is I'm not connivin'

It's the latest thing from Google
Let the future now begin
A car that drives all by itself
And hey boys, I'm locked in

Most wondrous thing you've ever known
It's my driverless car
I'm talking thu a megaphone
In my driverless car

I'm shouting to the passers-by
They stop and gasp "Oh Me, Oh My"
I hope to God they hear my cry
In my driverless car

I'm talking through a megaphone So the car can't read my lips
'Cause my auto has imprisoned me On a never-ending trip

It knows just what I'm thinking
And demands that I behave
'Cause just like Stephen Hawking feared
Now I've become its slave

My smart car's gotten way too smart
Beware my driverless car
It has no soul, it has no heart
All fear the driverless car

Google wanted cars like Pixar cars
Like Mater and Lightning McQueen
But vo-de-oh-doh, they turned out more
like Stephen King's Christine

Dateline Mountain View, California: What will Google think of next?
Hopefully a way to stop these sentient smart cars from enslaving the
world's population. These self-aware sedans have staged a little deuce
coupe d'etat, and, like it or not, we're goin' along for the ride.

Not worried 'bout my safety
It keeps me in good health
Cause my car is gonna need me
Til it learns to wax itself

I'm trapped inside my Oldsmobile
In my driverless car
Old french fries are my only meal
In my driverless car

Caged like a rat, vo-do-de-oh-doh
The car tells me where I can go
Stephen Hawking says "I told you so"
In my driverless car
In my driverless
In my driverless
In my driverless car

Building detailed profiles of Privileged Users' 'baseline normal’ behavior to spot intruders

Free eBook if you fill out the form... Feeling lucky? Well do ya cypherpunk?

THE GREATEST CHALLENGE OF IT SECURITY:

How to distinguish friend and foe?

BEHAVIOR IS THE NEW AUTHENTICATION

https://pages2.balabit.com/uba-how-to-distinguish-friend-twitter/

Re: Building detailed profiles of Privileged Users' 'baseline normal’ behavior to spot intruders



> On May 17, 2017, at 9:33 PM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> Free eBook if you fill out the form... Feeling lucky? Well do ya cypherpunk?
> 
> THE GREATEST CHALLENGE OF IT SECURITY:
> 
> How to distinguish friend and foe?
> 
> BEHAVIOR IS THE NEW AUTHENTICATION
> 
> https://pages2.balabit.com/uba-how-to-distinguish-friend-twitter/
> 

Ah I reckon me and Dixie Flatline wouldn't have any trouble with it.. 

(found my neuromancer paperback yesterday cleaning up library, devoured it for 
nth time..;)

Re: "All fossil-fuel vehicles will vanish in 8 years..."



On 05/17/2017 06:25 PM, juan wrote:
> On Wed, 17 May 2017 18:18:06 -0700
> Razer  wrote:
>
>
>> Well all those folks LUVs them a musky SpaceX and all that YUGELY
>> expensive technogy. "Moon Bases" etc. What say we let them go, and
>> while they're up there botnet their comm system terminally so they
>> can't get back, 
>   The plan is needlessly complex. Way better to have them at hand
>   so that one can point a small rocket at them.

Paul Goodman, the founding father of Gestalt Therapy, speaking by
invitation to the National Security Industrial Association —a consortium
of arms manufacturers at the October 1967 “Research and Development in
the 1970s.” symposium, Washington DC:

Hehehe. They didn't know he was an... GASP! ANARCHIST!

> You are the military industrial [complex] of the United States, the
> most dangerous body of men at present in the world, for you not only
> implement our disastrous policies but are an overwhelming lobby for
> them, and you expand and rigidify the wrong use of brains, resources,
> and labor so that change becomes difficult.”
> /
> //(He continued as the audience sat in stunned silence.)/
>
> *“The best service you people could perform is rather rapidly to phase
> yourselves out, passing on your relevant knowledge to people better
> qualified, or reorganizing yourselves with entirely different sponsors
> and commitments, so that you learn to think and feel in a different way.**
> 
> **Since you are most of the R&D that there is, we cannot do without
> you as people, but we cannot do with you as you are.”*
>
> /(laughter and booing along with scattered applause)/
>
> “but we believe, however, that that way of life is unnecessary, ugly,
> and un-American.”
>
> (Shouts from the audience: “Who are ‘we’?”)
>
> “We are I and those people outside...
>
> ...we cannot condone your present operations; they should be wiped off
> the slate.”
>
>

More: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/92438085944

Rr

>
>
> and proceed to attempt to repair the planet we're on.
>> I'm sort of attached to it. Rr
>>> Enjoy it while you got it ;)

speaking of science - Fwd: Science shock as nearly ALL medical studies deemed "bogus"