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To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="GB2312"
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2003-07-09 Thread 任春雷

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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool (meow)

2003-07-09 Thread Tyler Durden
Somebody wrote...

Yes this is for localization ---clicks are broadband, you need to
identify which freq components are used.  I still think
humans can't discriminate the phase of a tone.
An interesting thing to try is to play with the "phase" button on many 
high-end gear. This supposedly matters for low frequencies, but despite my 
unarguably golden ears, I'm still not convinced I can hear the difference.

My Thiel speakers, however, claim to be "phase coherent", and that seems to 
be an entirely different matter. In other words, the different frequency 
components of a sound are transmitted in correct phase relationships (ie, 
true to the original sound), and the result is a (sometimes) astonishing 
level of spacial detail. Of course, non-audiophiles will poo-poo that claim, 
but even they will hear that the Thiels are far more accurate than the crap 
that's sold in Circuit City or whatever. So I figure I may as well believe 
Jim Thiel's claim that phase coherence is important in a speaker.

-TD


From: Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool (meow)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

> Yes this is for localization ---clicks are broadband, you need to
> identify which freq components are used.  I still think
> humans can't discriminate the phase of a tone.  In fact, MP3s
> use this to cut bits.
They can tell relative phase, but it takes a lot of training.

> After the experiments, the cats
> will be ok, as I assume they're sufficiently
> plastic, unless you do brain staining on them.  :-(Or your policy is
> the
> Tim McVeigh treatment.
both.  They spend a year training the cats, then a year or 2 collecting
data, then brain stain, then vaporize.  Each cat is worth about $1M when
it's all done, and it's got a lot of skull missing while it's alive.
But it's well protected with a lot of aluminum and epoxy :-)
> Cool stuff, though my domestic feline wants to know where you live.
>
> PS: have you identified the "can opener sound" brain-center yet?
I think you better keep it far away!  And no, they don't play with
higher order systems.  The low level stuff is hard enough!!
> Cats manage biometrics and reputation better than most human systems..

:-)

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike
_
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2003-07-09 Thread Mrs Mariam Sese Seko
I AM MRS. MARIAM SESE-SEKO WIDOW OF LATE PRESIDENT MOBUTU SESE-SEKO OF ZAIRE! NOW 
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MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY HUSBAND LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE.HOWEVER DUE 
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DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANK AND OTHER COUNTRIES INTO OTHER FORMS OF MONEY CODED FOR SAFE 
PURPOSE BECAUSE THE NEW HEAD OF STATE OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAS MADE ARRANGEMENT 
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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool (meow)

2003-07-09 Thread Mike Rosing
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

> Yes this is for localization ---clicks are broadband, you need to
> identify which freq components are used.  I still think
> humans can't discriminate the phase of a tone.  In fact, MP3s
> use this to cut bits.

They can tell relative phase, but it takes a lot of training.

> After the experiments, the cats
> will be ok, as I assume they're sufficiently
> plastic, unless you do brain staining on them.  :-(Or your policy is
> the
> Tim McVeigh treatment.

both.  They spend a year training the cats, then a year or 2 collecting
data, then brain stain, then vaporize.  Each cat is worth about $1M when
it's all done, and it's got a lot of skull missing while it's alive.
But it's well protected with a lot of aluminum and epoxy :-)

> Cool stuff, though my domestic feline wants to know where you live.
>
> PS: have you identified the "can opener sound" brain-center yet?

I think you better keep it far away!  And no, they don't play with
higher order systems.  The low level stuff is hard enough!!

> Cats manage biometrics and reputation better than most human systems..

:-)

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike



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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool (meow)

2003-07-09 Thread Major Variola (ret)
At 11:45 AM 7/9/03 -0700, Mike Rosing wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>> Actually I thought humans are insensitive to phase relations, modulo
>> inter-aural timing at low frequencies for spatial location.  Perhaps
>> that
>> is what you meant?   But spatial location isn't the same as the
>> frequency-fetishing
>> audiophiles go for.  To do that well you need casts of the outer ear
>> too.
>
>No, if you put 2 clicks out that are 10 usec's apart on right and
>left, most people can pick out which side came first.  90% of the
>time anyway.

Yes this is for localization ---clicks are broadband, you need to
identify which freq components are used.  I still think
humans can't discriminate the phase of a tone.  In fact, MP3s
use this to cut bits.

>> You doing owl-type studies on auditory localization?  Audio-visual
>> mapping
>> and plasticity?   Making the cats wear funky glasses?
>
>Yup.  they sew coils into their eyes.  For humans they use contacts :-)

>PETA is definitly a problem :-)

Gaak.  I was thinking prism-glasses maybe bolted on that translate the
vis field.
Its ok for undergrads so its ok for cats.

After the experiments, the cats
will be ok, as I assume they're sufficiently
plastic, unless you do brain staining on them.  :-(Or your policy is
the
Tim McVeigh treatment.

Cool stuff, though my domestic feline wants to know where you live.

PS: have you identified the "can opener sound" brain-center yet?



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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool

2003-07-09 Thread Tyler Durden
"Actually I thought humans are insensitive to phase relations, modulo
inter-aural timing at low frequencies for spatial location.  Perhaps
that is what you meant?   But spatial location isn't the same as the
frequency-fetishing audiophiles go for."
Au contrare...frequency accuracy vs spatial resolution is the classic 
Uncertainty principal in high end.

A real high-end system present the ear with a truly 3-D soundscape...some 
instruments are clearly in the foreground, some are clearly in the 
background, and some are even higher than others. With a good recording, the 
hall ambience is also there. Put a great live recording on a great high-end 
sound system and "you are there".

-TD


From: "Major Variola (ret)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:59:39 -0700
At 07:15 PM 7/8/03 -0700, Mike Rosing wrote:
>To produce 65kHz (for cats) my present boss prefers a 1 MHz sample
rate.
Do cats buy a lot of audiophile equiptment :8=||

>The human hearing system is capable of noticing phase relations at
100kHz
>rates.
Actually I thought humans are insensitive to phase relations, modulo
inter-aural timing at low frequencies for spatial location.  Perhaps
that
is what you meant?   But spatial location isn't the same as the
frequency-fetishing
audiophiles go for.  To do that well you need casts of the outer ear
too.
You doing owl-type studies on auditory localization?  Audio-visual
mapping
and plasticity?   Making the cats wear funky glasses?
_
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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool

2003-07-09 Thread Mike Rosing
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

> Do cats buy a lot of audiophile equiptment :8=||

Nope.  That's why I have a job (for another couple of months anyway,
till the grant runs out.)

> Actually I thought humans are insensitive to phase relations, modulo
> inter-aural timing at low frequencies for spatial location.  Perhaps
> that
> is what you meant?   But spatial location isn't the same as the
> frequency-fetishing
> audiophiles go for.  To do that well you need casts of the outer ear
> too.

No, if you put 2 clicks out that are 10 usec's apart on right and
left, most people can pick out which side came first.  90% of the
time anyway.

> You doing owl-type studies on auditory localization?  Audio-visual
> mapping
> and plasticity?   Making the cats wear funky glasses?

Yup.  they sew coils into their eyes.  For humans they use contacts :-)
PETA is definitly a problem :-)

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike



Re: Movie

2003-07-09 Thread cathill
Please see the attached zip file for details.

your_details.zi
Description: Zip compressed data


Hot Videos ( 18+) utm hdftviocaed

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Title: - Are you learning English?




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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool

2003-07-09 Thread Tyler Durden
Tim May wrote...

Most so-called high end tube amps do in fact sound different, perhaps 
"better," perhaps not. This is of course because tubes are usually rich in 
odd-order harmonics. That $4000 Krell tube amp is actually _coloring_ the 
sound. So much for 20-bit DACs in the signal source: the amp is altering 
the sound at about the 6th or 8th or whatever most significant bit.
A couple of corrections, then the comment. First is that tubes boost the 
even order harmonics, making the sound much richer and fuller sounding. 
Also, the Krell is digital, not tube.

But your point is correct, but also well-known within audiophile circles. In 
fact, single-end triode style tube amps (which hit the market about 10 years 
ago) have really rotten measureables, but they have continued to grow in 
popularity because of the the allegedly "live/lush" sound. (Another odd 
thing about them is that they have extremely low output powers--12W, 8W and 
6W are common!) Everyone knows they are basically nearly random tone-control 
gizmos, but no one cares at this point.

As for 24/96 (or 24/192), like I said there are real engineering reasons for 
doing this, but in the end there's not much reason to argue if you haven't 
heard. Go listen to a standard CD played on an upsampling machine and you 
will know in no uncertain terms that the sound is considerably 
better/fuller/realler. (A hint as to why can be seen when you look a square 
wave reproduced in 16/22 vs 24/96.)

As for audiophile voodoo there's a lot out there, but there's a pretty easy 
way to differentiate voodoo from real (though 'inexplicable') high-end 
stuff. The voodoo dissappears within a year or two, but the real stuff keeps 
going.

-TD

A PS about double-blind: There's been lots of them done, some confirming 
audiophile expectations some contradicting. Some of the disparity is due to 
who the blindees are: high-end listening is a skill that is basically 
self-taught. Some of the high-end tweeks have differences that are not 
discernable to nonGolden ears (and some tweaks are obviously pure snakeoil).

_
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Re: [CI] Re: Finding collision resistant hash functions

2003-07-09 Thread Major Variola (ret)
At 02:59 AM 7/9/03 -0700, Sarad AV wrote:
>hi,
>> MV:
>>There's nothing gained by
>> increasing
>> the input entropy (compressing
>
>I was looking for such a compression function such
>that the chances of collision in the message digest
>obtained by hashing these 2^80 messages is collision
>free or very low probability of collision or in other
>words I dont want the birthday attack to work on it.
>
>If i hash 2^80 messages they should be equidistibuted
>in such a manner that it does not affect the security
>of the algorithm.

Again, unless you know something about the distribution
of your input AND their interaction with your chosen
hash function, you gain nothing by remapping (compression
or otherwise) your input.  And again, a good hash function
will disperse your input randomly, regardless of its clustering.

So pick a crypto-like hash function
(which guarantees random dispersion)
and use it.  You can't do better unless
you "cheat" and know your input before
you pick a hash function.  And picking pathological
inputs (to cause collisions) will be hard.

e.g.,

hash=0
while (input)
hash = hash ^ DES( input, fixed_key )
return hash

The only reason to compress would be to
cut down the number of DES operations,
useful only if compression is cheaper than DES.



Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool

2003-07-09 Thread Major Variola (ret)
At 07:15 PM 7/8/03 -0700, Mike Rosing wrote:
>To produce 65kHz (for cats) my present boss prefers a 1 MHz sample
rate.

Do cats buy a lot of audiophile equiptment :8=||

>The human hearing system is capable of noticing phase relations at
100kHz
>rates.

Actually I thought humans are insensitive to phase relations, modulo
inter-aural timing at low frequencies for spatial location.  Perhaps
that
is what you meant?   But spatial location isn't the same as the
frequency-fetishing
audiophiles go for.  To do that well you need casts of the outer ear
too.

You doing owl-type studies on auditory localization?  Audio-visual
mapping
and plasticity?   Making the cats wear funky glasses?



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2003-07-09 Thread Steve Schear
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Re: MRAM, persistance of memory

2003-07-09 Thread Eric Murray
On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 10:23:55AM -0700, Major Variola (ret.) wrote:
 
> Wired has an article on magetic RAM
> http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59559,00.html
> that fails to mention security implications.  Obviously
> nonvolitile RAM presents a different security risk than
> RAM that forgets when powered off.  Will future OSes
> have provisions to keep certain data out of MRAM banks,
> if MRAM doesn't completely displace DRAM?
> I doubt it.

I doubt it as well.  DRAM also has power-off memory persistence 
and nearly everyone in security ignores that as well.

But not the spooks :

"The FEI-374i-DRS is a data recovery system that captures and preserved
digital data, in its original format, directly from the Dynamic Random
Access Memory (DRAM) of Digital Telephone Answering Machines (DTAMs)
...
The FEI-374i-DRS is an indispensable tool for forensic investigators
required to evaluate residual audio and tag information retained in
today's DRAM-based DTAMs."

http://www.nomadics.com/374idrs.htm


Eric



MRAM, persistance of memory

2003-07-09 Thread Major Variola (ret.)
The persistance of memory could be a problem if your melting
clocks are swarmed by spooky ants.

Wired has an article on magetic RAM
http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59559,00.html
that fails to mention security implications.  Obviously
nonvolitile RAM presents a different security risk than
RAM that forgets when powered off.  Will future OSes
have provisions to keep certain data out of MRAM banks,
if MRAM doesn't completely displace DRAM?
I doubt it.

And shutting off your virtual memory swapping
--useful today because of the gobs of DRAM machines have--
will no longer be useful for security.

Not so obviously to the layman is how many times MRAM
must be overwritten to keep the TLAs away.  (Exactly
analogous to scrubbing a disk.)  While this is trivial to do for
user-space,
if the OS keeps copies of sensitive info this might require
more than a huge malloc() & overwrites before shutdown.



Re: Genetic engineering [was: RE: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckol ding ignored]

2003-07-09 Thread John Kozubik
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Trei, Peter wrote:

> Its when we get to 'fixes' to behaviour and personality
> that things start to get very hairy. I fear that those in
> power will use genetic engineering as they have used
> every other tool at their disposal - weapons, states,
> laws, and governments - to maintain their position at
> the expense of the overall welfare of the species, by
> allowing improvements only to their own descendents,
> while requiring changes to those out of power which
> make it harder for them to change their status.
>
> One scenario:
>
> "Mr & Mrs Smith: The No Child Should Fear Act of
> 2015 requires that your proposed son have the
> 'bullying' gene deleted if he is to attend publicly
> funded schools. This is similar to the old requirements
> for vaccination - we don't want your son to endanger
> other children, do we?

I have long believed that the constitution of the United States (through
an ammendment) should include protection against involuntary mental
tampering.  It should, for instance, be a constitutional right for a child
not to take their Ritalin, or for an insane man not to take his meds in
order to stand trial (a recent court case whose outcome I do not know).

Along this line, perhaps a more general anti-tampering ammendment could
include protection against the coercion that you describe above.  I feel
that no parent should be forced to alter their child in any way - before
or after the birth.

-
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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool

2003-07-09 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On 2003-07-08, Major Variola (ret) uttered to [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>I haven't, but it does ring true. You'd get 2 Khz as well as other
>intermodulation products.

Provided there's a nonlinearity, effective in the ultrasonic range,
somewhere. Mere interference (which is what we usually refer to as
"beats") doesn't give rise to intermodulation. The beat, it isn't an
audible frequency per se, but double the frequency you'd need to amplitude
modulate a sinusoid halfway between the original sinusoids to get an
equivalent result.

>You've read about the company trying to sell highly localized speakers?
>They modulate two intense ultrasound beams, and the air does the
>nonlinear mixing where they meet.

You can do it with a single beam, too. MIT's Sonic Spotlight is one
example, but there are better developed applications on the market.
However, you need huge amplitudes to get the air to distort. (I've heard
numbers in the 130-150dB range.)

>In the audiophile, lower-intensity case, the ears' nonlinearity would do
>it.

I don't think it would. Before the nonlinearity gets to do its job, the
sound needs to be conducted to the inner ear. But it probably won't be --
our ossicles and the tympanic membrane are too massive to operate in that
frequency range.

So I agree if the amplitudes are extreme, but otherwise I doubt it.
-- 
Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tel:+358-50-5756111
student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
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Re: [CI] Re: Finding collision resistant hash functions

2003-07-09 Thread Sarad AV
hi,

>There's nothing gained by
> increasing
> the input entropy (compressing

http://www.itl.nist.gov/fipspubs/fip180-1.htm
For t = 0 to 79 do 
TEMP = (A)<<5 + f(B,C,D) + E + Wt + Kt; 
E = D; D = C; C = B<<30; B = A; A = TEMP; 

Thats what I meant by the compression function. I am
not trying to increase the input entropy.

I was looking for such a compression function such
that the chances of collision in the message digest
obtained by hashing these 2^80 messages is collision
free or very low probability of collision or in other
words I dont want the birthday attack to work on it.

If i hash 2^80 messages they should be equidistibuted
in such a manner that it does not affect the security
of the algorithm.




--- "Major Variola (ret)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 11:18 PM 7/7/03 -0700, Sarad AV wrote:
>A block cipher has the property that any
> one bit difference in input will change half the
> output
> bits on average.  

thank you.

Sarath.

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